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- Wiini, on 01/09/2009, -1/+19๏̯͡๏﴿ ORLY ?
- algernon2k, on 01/10/2009, -0/+14We released Raptor Copter for the iPhone using Unity. The game is a follow-up to Off-Road Velociraptor Safari, which we released last year (also developed with Unity). We actually used a fair bit of code verbatim between the games, which was pretty fantastic. We're going to a full-on ORVS iPhone port at some point.
Raptor Copter video/info: http://tinyurl.com/7nqgk4
Unity completely hides the fact that there's some gnarly Mono AOT compilation stuff going on behind the scenes. As a developer it's just a single-click build. Watch the demo video at http://unity3d.com/ for an idea of the workflow; it's pretty slick. - c0baltfish, on 01/10/2009, -2/+15"The iPhone isn't the only hot handset to catch Mono."
They probably should've reworded this sentence. - UKsHaDoW, on 01/09/2009, -1/+14Its a nice language, with a different syntax. Learn it, it'll be good for you.
- JonLatane, on 01/10/2009, -2/+14Why would they patch it? There is no interpreted code, it's all precompiled. Apple has nothing to lose by allowing developers to use C#.
- inactive, on 01/09/2009, -4/+16Sweet. <3 Mono. I wonder if they would eventually be able to get things like the DLR running on the iPhone/Wii?
- stoanhart, on 01/09/2009, -0/+11Only on a jailbroken iPhone. The reason they need to fully compile the code is that Apple doesn't allow foreign runtimes on the AppStore.
- rhynost, on 01/09/2009, -1/+12It is out for Android as well.
- Addaone, on 01/09/2009, -4/+15Excellent. I wanted to dive into programming for the iPhone but I just can't wrap my brain around Objective-C. Ugh.
- katelin, on 01/10/2009, -1/+10Software compiled on Windows targeting Microsoft's .NET can run just fine under Mono, so long as they do not call into native libraries on the system.
There are exceptions (bugs?) to this rule, but for the most part it seems to work just fine.
They have a tool called MoMA which can analyze a program to see if there will be any problems. - sandburn, on 01/10/2009, -1/+10its definitely going to be a bit faster.. but i'll take a 10-20% cut in speed to have 10-20 times more apps released 10-20 times quicker than with C/C++
- breakaway, on 01/10/2009, -0/+7Don't you mean
(͡๏̯͡๏) - inactive, on 01/09/2009, -3/+9What's wrong with the CLI?
- UKsHaDoW, on 01/10/2009, -0/+6There's no such thing as a base language, they all end up in the same 0 and 1's.
The reason gimp doesn't fit is because it based on gtk not Cocoa or carbon.
Gimp is written in C, a lot of mac applications are written C/C++ using carbon. Objective C is pretty much c with smalltalk oo.
Photoshop is written in C++.
What your talking about are toolkits not languages. - katelin, on 01/10/2009, -0/+5Miguel had a list of 40 or so iPhone games (and a Wii game) that were built using Mono on his weblog the other day.
http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Jan-07.html - UKsHaDoW, on 01/10/2009, -0/+5Monodevelop?
Runs only decently on linux though. - nonymous666, on 01/10/2009, -0/+5There's a plugin for the Eclipse IDE (called Emonic) for building C# applications using Mono (or even MS's .Net Framework).
- UKsHaDoW, on 01/10/2009, -0/+5Whats your point?
Objective C is C with Smalltalk oo syntax, its much less of a complex mess then c++ is.
C++ has so much undefined behavior, you have to be careful. - etoiles, on 01/09/2009, -2/+7link to Miguel de Icaza's blog: http://tirania.org/blog/
- yournamehere, on 01/09/2009, -7/+12iPhone patch in 3..2..1..
- Tehrab, on 01/10/2009, -0/+5The language to me was a relatively easy to grasp. It's the friggin' event and object wireups in Cocoa where I constantly run afoul, forever forgetting one thing or another.
- jakem1, on 01/10/2009, -1/+5@ilgaz: Microsoft don't have anything to do with Mono and the iPhone SDK has nothing to do with any open standards.
- stupidclese, on 01/10/2009, -0/+4-"I would say an instruction set is basically equivalent to an API or framwork."
You would be wrong. - katelin, on 01/10/2009, -3/+7Actually, Mono does implement Windows.Forms: http://www.mono-project.com/WinForms
It's also not a stripped down Mono, you are thinking of the resulting binaries which have all classes and class methods stripped out of them that aren't used. Sorta like the Linux command 'strip' which strips out unused symbols.
So no, it's not a completely different platform. It really is ".NET" (except Mono, of course). - katelin, on 01/10/2009, -1/+5Mono is used for the AI scripting (in place of lua, for example). Also, it's being compiled to native code, so it doesn't have the overhead of a JIT making it just as fast as C/C++.
- Kamujin, on 01/11/2009, -0/+4@ilgaz When you finally realize why .NET is anything but a copy of Objective C, you will also begin to realize why Apple's lack of understanding of bytecode languages is just the post 2000 repeat of the same backwards thinking that caused Apple to mis on pre-emptive multi-tasking.
Objective C has its merits, but it is showing it's age. Both Java and C# have long since surpassed it. - MattBD, on 01/10/2009, -0/+4It's actually Spanish - according to Wikipedia, Mono means "monkey".
- gzmask, on 01/10/2009, -0/+4correct. if they patch it, then no binary executable code will be able to run on iphone.
- Kamujin, on 01/11/2009, -0/+4Man, that's just wrong. Who is tell you guys this stuff?
- etoiles, on 01/10/2009, -0/+3for example http://www.gameresort.com/downhillbowling/iphone
(through Unity) - Murdats, on 01/10/2009, -3/+6.Net is platform independent, the virtual machine isn't
- mrBitch, on 01/10/2009, -0/+3Interesting that the Mono project (in some cases) exceeds the capabilities of Microsoft's .NET :
"Mono's robust portability and advanced support for features like static compilation are enabling developers to use it in innovative ways that wouldn't be possible with Microsoft's .NET implementation." - Stonekeeper, on 01/09/2009, -11/+14I still don't trust it.
- migueldeicaza2, on 01/10/2009, -0/+3Rumor is that the DLR folks are adding static compilation back to DLR-based languages, so Ruby and Python based on it will eventually run.
- JonLatane, on 01/10/2009, -0/+3@gzmask
Technically, they could patch the OS's loader to check occasionally for "signature" patterns that would be generated by the Mono compiler (for example, patterns caused by Mono's garbage collector, which would presumably HAVE to be in the binaries somewhere and be hard to hide from the system). But it would be a lot of effort for zero benefit. (If they really thought it was a big deal, it would be smarter to run checks upon submission to the App Store; I'm just saying it could be patched.) - inactive, on 01/10/2009, -0/+3.Net is an ECMA/ISO standard.
- robojerk, on 01/10/2009, -4/+6I think you mean that .Net is not cross platform, that is correct. Mono is a port of .Net, that being said if you take a .Net application and try to run it on Mono it won't work. .Net applications have to be rewritten to uses mono instead of .Net Runtime.
- aoou4444, on 01/10/2009, -1/+3ilgaz:
I don't think you understand Mono, yet you continue to comment on it, among other things that you seem to misunderstand. - zephc, on 01/10/2009, -0/+2[object methodName:arg1 withArg2:arg andArg3:arg3];
is sorta like
object.methodNameWithArg2AndArg3(arg1,arg2,arg3);
or, more simply
object.methodName(arg1,arg2,arg3);
but is actually like
objc_msgSend(object, "methodName:withArg2:andArg3", arg1, arg2, arg3);
where 'methodName:withArg2:andArg3' (called a selector) is looked up at runtime on the object, up the inheritence tree.
everything else is basically C and special compiler directives - offrdbandit, on 01/10/2009, -2/+4This is one of the few situations in which native code does have a legitimate speed advantage over managed code, since the platform specifications can be known precisely beforehand and optimization done at compile time can be as efficient as JIT optimization.
- bubut, on 01/10/2009, -1/+3brace for nerd fight
- MattBD, on 01/10/2009, -1/+3I've been tinkering with it and I quite like it, although I dislike IDE's in general. It's very easy to build a GUI app with it. I do prefer Monodevelop to Visual C# Express Edition.
- offrdbandit, on 01/10/2009, -1/+3@radu79
"In general, the more abstract a programming language is, the less optimal the code translation becomes. AFAIK, there are no exceptions from this rule."
The fundamental performance difference between native and managed code is the optimization of the code. Native code is optimized by the developers whereas managed code is optimized for the end user's specific hardware configuration. With native code optimization, developers can only optimize for an "expected" or "standard" configuration since the end users' specific hardware is unknown. If optimization is done on the users' machines, the optimizer has all the information necessary to fully optimize the code for the specific hardware. - radu79, on 01/10/2009, -2/+410-20 times quicker? You must be dreaming. It is maybe 50% quicker, but when it comes to devices with limited resources, I, as a customer, expect the applicatins to be as fast as possible, and for cellphones, I want them to waste as little battery life as possible.
@katelin
Care to provide a link to some benchmarks where C# is just as fast as C/C++? :) - UKsHaDoW, on 01/10/2009, -3/+5Languages don't define speed, only there implementations do. It is possible to c# to be faster.
- Kamujin, on 01/12/2009, -0/+2Those guys are insane. Like... for real... insane.
- Kamujin, on 01/11/2009, -1/+3@aoou4444 I agree. This ilgaz does not really understand mono. I get the impression he hasn't done much cross platform work.
- inactive, on 01/10/2009, -1/+3If the LANGUAGE implementation is good, then yes, absolutely. No reason why not.
- inactive, on 01/18/2009, -0/+1Or learn to use the command line like a competent programmer.
-
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