What is Digg?68 Comments
- paul1664, on 10/12/2007, -5/+31Not strictly true - MS offer the Express range of tools which are basically cut-down flavours of Visual Studio 2005.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/
Proprietary but excellent. - stoffe, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17For Linux, check out Monodevelop[1], which is a C# IDE with a GUI builder for Mono. There's work in progress to make it run on Windows as well, but last I heard not all features was available. Check out the FAQ and follow some links if you want to know more about that.
1. http://monodevelop.com - upfrontfanatic, on 10/12/2007, -9/+20Second that. MS's tools for .NET development are excellent. This is a nice effort, but I think I will stick to my full (and legal) edition of Visual Studio 2005. And most people without that license, will probably use MS's somewhat limited Express editions.
However, for people interested in checking out .NET development using mono on *nix platforms this -could- have been a nice tool. I honestly don't see the need for another Win32 .NET development tool. - asmodeus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10From what I remember, Monodevelop was originally based off of #develop too, but I'm not sure how similar the codebases are at this stage. Monodevelop is quite good though - not on the level of Eclipse with the JDT, but it's quite capable. It doesn't have braindead 'drag dataset onto form and connect to database connection' type stuff, but I consider the lack of that a good thing.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10heh, Im using vs2005 at work and so far it beats all other IDEs i worked with like Eclipse,Netebeans and Zend Studio hands down
- JamesWilson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Mono is from Miguel de Icaza, the same creator who brought you Gnome and Evolution.
- flappysocks, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I read #develop will support GTK# in the future, much like MonoDevelop. Mono is a terrific project. It really deserves to get more recognition.
- zootm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7People in Linux communities hating a project doesn't mean it's a bad project -- Mono's always struck me as a very good project, and seems to work very well.
- Heavy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7If i recall correctly the "problem" whit monodevelop was that is did not offer any easy way to program Windows.Forms Application.
- Brahma, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6This is great. I admit that it can come nowhere close to the full fledged VS IDE but, this is an alternative all the same. Just couple of days back I wanted to throw VS 2005 out of my window as this takes hell lot of time to close. I seriously think, the current version of the IDE has some leaks. If you keep the IDE open for a couple of days, it takes a loooooooooong time to close. The PF usage goes through the roof and literally my laptop comes to a standstill.
- WelfareQueen, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Please... no lame Slashdot humor.
- stoffe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@Heavy:
If you are developing on Monodevelop/Linux you probably don't want to. If you want to do apps that run on Windows as well, you are most likely better off targetting Gtk# which has a small runtime for Windows as well. - zootm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"I had to pay $279 for the standard IDE. Is there any other IDE that anyone are familiar with for mobile .NET app dev?"
The initial problem with this was that the devs of the Compact Framework didn't have time to make a separate SDK for .NET 1.0, so it wasn't possible to compile a CF project without VS.NET 2003. I believe that .NET 2.0 has fixed this (with a separately- and freely-available SDK), so hopefully support will follow, but it's understandable that integration may take a while.
PS: Why was the parent of this post buried? - DanAtkinson, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6You already can.
- tont0r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Ive used #Develop a bit in the past. its not a bad IDE but still needs works. the random crashes while debugging were annoying.
- dollars5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2May be because people only read my last line and ignored my first problem of mobile applications development ;)
Thanks for the suggestions, but zootm , I dunno why many open source projects ignore .NET compact framework - that is the only reason I had to use Visual Studio and buy a license also :( For my other mobile platforms I use open source tools (actually they have better functionality than their paid counterparts) - zootm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"Having used these tools and VS myself, I can say that VS is nowhere close eclipse at least right now."
Have you used VS 2005? Its refactoring support is far and away better than earlier versions. Of course Eclipse and Netbeans (my personal preference, at least for Java development) are good too, but VS is now capable of at least competing with them (unlike VS.NET 2003, which had extremely rudimentary support for refactoring and the like). - zigamorph, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Try the Express set of tools, they are great for any developer just looking to expand their skills or Students that don't have the money for even the Student version of VS.NET 2005
- jeffyjones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This isn't really news... it has been around for awhile.
I'm not entirely sure I understand where this thing fits in the world though since the Express products were released. I'm not saying it isn't really cool, I just don't entirely understand the motivation for using it. - AdamWeeden, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.ntwizards.net/2003/08/30/targeting_the_compact_framework_with_sharpdevelop
- Netmindstorm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I've been using both Eclipse 3.2 and VS2005 (team edition). As far as code editing and navigation goes, I prefer Eclipse's model ("hyperlinks" to classes via ctrl+click, as opposed to all the right clicking). You also appear to be able to customize the editor a bit more than you can in VS2005. One thing I really like about Eclipse is that you can define code templates, export them and then have other developers import them so that all of your coding standards are maintained. I know that you can define coding styles in VS2005, but I haven't found a way to export and have other developers pick them up in their VS environment. If anyone knows how to do this, please let me know. I figure I must be missing the forest through the trees. VS2005 is great for designing WinForms, but that (editor GUI design) has always been the strength of the MS IDEs even back to VC++ and MFC. My biggest rant against VS is not so much VS, but Visual Source Safe (VSS). What a POS source control system. Native CVS support in VS would have been great. There does appear a way to do it as outlined here: http://www.codeproject.com/macro/CVS_with_VSNET.asp
but I haven't tried it yet.
Either way, editors are just tools, much like the languages we use with them. Don't use a hammer when you need a screwdriver and vice versa. - dollars5, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9Just checked #develop IDE - but there is no support for mobile application development. I currently find the only IDE for developing .NET mobile applications is MS Visual Studio 2005 standard/professional. I had to pay $279 for the standard IDE. Is there any other IDE that anyone are familiar with for mobile .NET app dev? pls let me know.
For non mobile applications I am happy with Visual Studio 2005 Express edition. - MonkeyBoy87, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4I think the comparisons of sharp develop to VS 2005 and vs 2005 express are missing the point. the idea is to have a full open source tool chain for Mono (the open source version of .NET). So you have a free framework and free runtime environment.
Does it have limits compared to VS - oh yes. but you have the source and it keeps getting better and better and better. I - JimXugle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Great. Now I can finally make use of my VB.NET Skillz.
[/false joy]
American public education has no ability to teach technology-oriented subjects. - DanAtkinson, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4This is a good thing (albeit quite old now). There are serious limitations to it, such as ASP.NET (or the lack thereof).
- WhiskerTheMad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I can't see how it is superior to VS, as they are the same."
I believe he was referring to it being vastly superior to earlier version of #dev. - WhiskerTheMad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I just don't entirely understand the motivation for using it."
It is so we have a "Free as in speech" alternative to a "Free as in beer" product. - creeptick, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1've used #develop for a bit and some of the features are really excellent. The VB -> C# and vice versa conversion has made my life simpler many many times.
- r3zim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"My biggest rant against VS is not so much VS, but Visual Source Safe (VSS). What a POS source control system."
QFT - AlmostEvil, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4Think of sharpdevelop somewhere between the Express and Standard editions of Visual Studio C#/C++ and you'll get what SharpDevelop is.
Unfortunately the SQL side of things under SharpDevelop are nowhere near as advanced as they are under the Visual Studio. (pretty much any version)
With #Develop 2 it's pretty much a database explorer, no drag and drop functionality etc as in MS VS. I had heard there was something in development for #Develop which added much better functionality along the lines of Microosofts offering, but it seems to have vanished. - zootm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I've had good results with the Express packages, although they're not great for larger projects if you're creating a single-package system they work great. On the other hand, if you have a larger project to make and you don't have the money for Microsoft's dev tools (and if you're creating something in your own time, this is likely to be the case), I've found that #develop is a fantastic unofficial IDE.
If you're developing for Mono, the open source .NET, there's also MonoDevelop, which is largely based upon #develop with better integration of Mono-specific libraries such as GTK# for GUIs. I've had far better experiences in general with #develop than with MonoDevelop, though, although it was a while ago I last used MD. Also, if you're on Linux, MonoDevelop is probably your only choice (since I think that #develop relies on features in WinForms which Mono doesn't support, but I could be wrong). - WhiskerTheMad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I have used eclipse for more then year and i can easily say that VS2005 is far better than Eclipse."
How so? The PP gave us a laundry list of features, now it's your turn. How's it better? - SideshowPaul, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I'm by no means a Linux fan boy or anything like that and have been very happy using VS at all of my jobs however...
VS2005 in its released state is an embarrassment. Its obvious some VP needed to ship by a certain date to make their bonus because I cannot believe MS didn't catch/care about some of the show stopping bugs in the IDE. Thank goodness the compiler itself seems solid. But things like the "Stack crawler" bug that caused the window form editor to crash daily,(which does have a hot fix now), the searching for a symbol causes VS to take a 10 minute nap, the control toolbar all having the same icon, and others really shook my faith in what I considered to be the MS flagship product.
Their better be a service pack and a big-O "I'm sorry" open letter soon. - PhilUk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3So are the crashes VS Studio 2003, especially when you are debugging the javascript...
- johnbmull, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1#develop allows you to develop applications using Boo, which is not available to VS2005, 2003, etc. The development environment provides what is essentially a GUI and RAD environment for Python, which Boo is largely modeled on. Early versions of the GUI had problems with multi-part controls, like menus and status bars, but the current version has no such problems (that I have yet seen).
I use Python exclusively for scripting and other major tasks as a developer and knowing that I can use it in a GUI environment that is even cross-platform, makes me feel kinda warm and fuzzy. I'll be getting used to some of the differences (I want my dict() back! Hash tables are just not quite the same), though. - zootm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"If you want to do apps that run on Windows as well, you are most likely better off targetting Gtk# which has a small runtime for Windows as well"
Unfortunately GTK looks a bit weird on Windows, so it's not optimal either. I'm not sure if there's a really good solution to this, though -- even when Windows.Forms gets a full port in Mono (it may do now, it's been a couple months since I looked at Mono), it'll probably look weird on a Linux system. I guess that this is as much about HIG differences between platforms as it is about anything else.
For the record, though, I find GTK programming kinda counter-intuitive for some reason. I'm gonna try and teach it to myself again from the start, because I think I initialially missed something about the way it works which is making me confused... - johnbmull, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1IronPython does not have a GUI front end and I'm not one for writing my GUI's by hand. PythonCard and the wxWidgets (http://www.wxwidgets.org/) are as close to a GUI for Python as I've seen, but the overall VS200x like integration of #develop makes it a favorite for me now that is _seems_ more stable.
I guess that makes my $0.04 now... - jaymc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I used #develop before we got VS2005 licenses to begin work on some proof of concept tools that we are developing for an internal R&D project. I had no idea that MS offered the express editions and I came across #develop quite easily. All projects that I had started in #develop opened just fine in VS2005 and I didn't have to muck with a bunch of project properties. I think it's a nice alternative.
- Jams, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4Great IDE, been using this for a while now.
- Obsidian743, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Love it. Wish MonoDevelop would get up to par with it, though.
- dollars5, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Many development particularly in mobile have SDKs for development in Visual Studio:
Examples:
1] Brew SDK for VS
2] Symbian SDK for VS
3] Palm SDK
Though some are available for Eclipse, but when it comes to ease of use and development Visual Studio wins handsdown - may be because it has sharp learning curve (atleast for freshers it presents a drag and drop dev) and may be because MS is offering many discounts to other corporates ;) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Ghod! DEFINITELY no Slashdot humor! I just got through looking at that whole crowd try to sort out what gonzo journalism is, based on (a) apparently never having read a book though perhaps having chewed the covers off a few, (b) never having heard of HST nor gonzo's definition, and (c) thinking gonzo meant "on drugs". The more I stay away from Slash, the stupider it gets when I peek in on it.
- hchaudh1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2I have the VS2005 disks but haven't tried itout just yet. Believe me, I have nothing against .Net, and I am getting ready to do some coding there myself to check out XAML and WPF.
But, its not like Eclipse and IntelliJ teams have been sitting idle. I think you should check out the JackPot project which is the next big thing in refactoring. And just like you said, Check out VS2005, its better than VS2003 which was not very good.
But I know of so many people who said VS2003 is the best IDE there is. That's the problem with MS. There is so much buzz about the next big thing that genuinely good projects get buried in the meme space.
Not that it is MS's problem. IBM and Sun and all those should be doing a better job of hyping their own technologies.
But Digg + to you for being among the few who say VS2003 was in fact not as good as the brochures said. - zootm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Just found this:
http://wiki.sharpdevelop.net/default.aspx/SharpDevelop.CompactFramework2Development
No designer support, but it does make SharpDevelop work with the CF. :) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2"Do a search for Miguel de icaza sucks."
Um, OK, when you 'dare' somebody to search for evidence to support a claim, there actually has to be something compelling on the other end of it? With quotes ("Miguel de icaza sucks") gets one hit, and without gets his own "Unix izz de suxxors" article at position one with commentary to follow in hits one-ten. Just for that first hit, I'll try to boost that Google ranking more: "Miguel de icaza sucks" "Miguel de icaza sucks" "Miguel de icaza sucks" "Miguel de icaza sucks" "Miguel de icaza sucks" There, that's a start. - adolfojp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I LOVE this little app. I believe that its strongest "selling" point are its reporting tools. VS Express does not include crystal reports.
Sadly, SharpDevelop's reporting tools are not as strong as they should be. Otherwise, this would be a real contender to the full paid version of Visual Studio.
The fact that it is open source is the icing on the cake. - mchanner, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"Oh and the forms designer is vastly superior now. "
I haven't used sharpdevelop for a while now, but I think the forms designer is implementing the IDesignerHost interface (http://divil.co.uk/net/articles/designers/hosting.asp) so I can't see how it is superior to VS, as they are the same. - dollars5, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Thanks AdamWeeden for bringing this to my attention but this is for .NET 1.0 Framework not the 2.0. Any One attempted it for .NET 2.0 CF - the links present only for .NET CF 1.0. If it could support 2.0 - then I can save my license fee on VS 2005. I tried googling but found none.
- hchaudh1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1That's because its a Beta.
- Nystagmus, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3I'm really excited to see an open source IDE for MS's languages come into light. I've used Visual Studio and I swear, it takes longer to learn how to use the IDE then the language your trying to code in. Here's hoping it gets a good following and amounts to something useful.
And real programmers don't use notepad. Real programmers use VI (or VIM these days), anything else is for failures (thank you Maddox!) -
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