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- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5symfony isn't ajax, it is just a very very small feature of the framework. It's not a rails clone but a complete framework based on the MVC model (mojavi3), a very good ORM tool (Propel) and nice helpers (based on Rails). Like rails, all these components are well integrated. It's designed to develop "enterprise" applications with native i18n and l10n support, simple deployment procedures, easy installation (PEAR), ... check the website to learn more!
P.S. : I'm the project lead... - smhill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Finally, Rails isn't AJAX, that's just one of its features-- I don't see why they're being compared."
Because this is Digg. 20% of all front page topics must have AJAX in the title. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2to Ghopper: The symfony website is built with symfony!
At my company, we use symfony a lot for our customers ("big" french companies) websites and have some "big trafic" websites under construction right now (but sadly, I can't post links). Stay tuned, I will post some of them on the symfony website soon. - jaxn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2While Rails is more mature than projects like Symfony, PHP is more mature than Ruby in some ways. I know Ruby on Rails is the cool thing. I have spent time learning Rails and Ruby and have even developed applications in Rails, but there are problems.
Want examples?
1) A good package for encrypting credit card data?
2) A good charting / graphing package?
A little competition is a good thing. Maybe the PHP camp can catch up on the framework or mabey the Rails camp can catch up on the libraries needed for business. - smhill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"2) A good charting / graphing package?"
Try: http://ploticus.sourceforge.net
Works pretty well. (though not specific to ruby, there is a nice gem to handle it)
But it is important to note, rails is still pretty new and had made some serious headway recently. More adoption means more support.
Though I do agree, competition will only serve to better both. Though it would be cool to see a php frameworks that is not just a clone of Rails, but plays to php strengths and is innovative in it's own right. - JamesWilson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Gah run spellcheck on your product name before you make the website! :p jk
- ghopper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Seems to be one of the more complete Rails inspired frameworks with good documentation. Good work and hope to see this framework to grow.
Not everyone wants to learn Ruby - so it's good to see something like symfony happening for PHP. - dude3609, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.symfony-project.com/demo/cart
- dbr_onix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"but why not just use the original?" Because maybe some people don't want to forget PHP and learn a whole new language?
(I'm not sure, so I could be wrong), but it seems Ruby On Rails wont run on "normal" hosting? (I've not really looked into this, sorry..)
I love PHP, and I'm proficient with it, I find it simple to use, and I can still code things from simple form handling stuff to brute-forcing commandline programs.. I don't fell like learning a whole other language..
Anyway, this seems pretty usefull.. hmm
- Ben - findhostcoupons, on 03/22/2009, -0/+1This post is very helpful for PHP programmers!
- jesusphreak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2dude3609, the second link you provided is not of more demos of symphony...they are demos done in Ruby on Rails. Your first link was a copy of a Rails demo.
- tolgafiratoglu, on 11/05/2008, -0/+1This is a "nice MVC Framework" for PHP.
- amikael, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.xindesk.com is exactly that.
- fartninja, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"OK, so who has an AJAX framework for ASP?"
HAHAHAHHA!!!
Ok, so anyway... I tried RoR, and it's great, but I wont be using it. I can't stand the fact I that I can't use sprocs and I have to name table columns certain ways. Sorry RoR, good thing going, but I want control. :)
I've been primarily working with Zope, but this PHP framework looks very cool, maybe even worth switching to PHP for primary dev now. - smhill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"PHP is the standard for web applications, and it didn't become that way without a reason."
Not really an accurate statement. In fact you would be hard pressed to claim anything is "the standard". And what do you measure? Amount of sites using it or size of sites or something else? There are a lot of sites that use php now, but large sites don't really use it, most are custom frameworks. And "web applications" has only really only recently gained popularity due to things like Rails. Java, perl, C, asp and others still have large bases. In fact only a few years ago these same discussion that are about Ruby on Rails were being had about PHP. PHP was the new kid on the block just a few short years ago and people were slow to adopt for the same reasons. "Perl is the standard", "all my code is in Perl", "tons of code exists for Perl", etc...
The only constant is change. Ruby on Rails will be old hat in a few years and something will come along to make it look old school.
----
Just because you have old code in one lang, doesn't mean you have to convert it. I do all new development in Ruby on Rails, but still do more PHP because supporting old projects. (and some Java, Perl and ASP). Ruby takes almost no time to learn. (coding is coding, really). And with things like ActiveRecord, scaffolding, debugging and such, you make up any learning time very rapidly. Very rapidly. It is also by its nature more reusable than standard php, so apps come much faster as you develop more.
And in 3 or 4 years, you can start learning (insert name here), because it will kick RoR's ass! Welcome to the wonderful world of professional web development. ;) - Dave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1coolguy69-
The demo uses the XMLHTTPRequest object which is implemented by Microsoft in ActiveX in IE. Many other browsers, Mozilla, Safari, and Opera for example, have the XMLHTTPRequest object as a native component in their javascript system. - smhill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Everyone should learn both! Ruby on Rails and Symfony. Never know when a client will say no to Ruby but yes to Php."
Very true, you don't always get to use your "preferred" lang. - jesusphreak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0>>> Because maybe some people don't want to forget PHP and learn a whole new language?
You realize that learning Rails doesn't mean you have to "forget PHP". Some of you guys act like learning Ruby is like learning Arabic. Its not. It is a very simple to learn programming langauge, and again, concepts in one language carry over to Ruby a lot of the time.
Its not like you have to erase brainspace everytime you learn something new. - rhyno2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0OK, so who has an AJAX framework for ASP?
- jinxie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0smhill: if you watch the original presentation that the rails guy gave at some school last year (it's linked on rubyonrails.com), he mentions he originally was a php guy and tried to build rails in php but ran into too many problems, and therefore switched to ruby
- jinxie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0DBR_ONIX - Define "normal"...any hosting site can support ruby/rails.. just because most don't, doesn't mean you can't find them. The ones that do are dead cheap, like www.site5.com
Ruby is also an interesting language to learn, and has some power over PHP that makes php seem like a joke in the end
* and edit to my last post "ruby's demo" = "rails' demo" - Fish5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Ruby/rails may be really good but I have built up loads of php code over the years and have years worth of knowledge. To just switch to ruby now would waste a load of time in learning and converting old code, maybe after 6 months it would be worth it but who has that kind of time?
- ChiliJ, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Ok. Why just PHP5?
- haekal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://www.symfony-project.com/demo/cart => I don't know why I couldn't access this page...
- mdarby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I know Ruby; it is an elegant language, but suffers from lack of support. Ever try setting up Apache with FastCGI? It's a total pain in the ass.
- MoeB, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0wow this guy sure has leet console skills. look at him go
- moiety, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Watched the video; damn impressive. I might have to give this a closer look for a couple of applications I'm working on.
And jesusphreak, get off it, would you? You don't have to troll every, single PHP story that hits the homepage and spout your nonsense about how awful you seem to think the language is. Whatever you may wish to believe, PHP is the standard for web applications, and it didn't become that way without a reason. Ruby isn't for everyone, it certainly wasn't for me. - ghopper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0To Fabien: Are you allowed to post links to sites that have been built with Symfony ?
- smhill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"I know Ruby; it is an elegant language, but suffers from lack of support. Ever try setting up Apache with FastCGI? It's a total pain in the ass."
FastCGI was a pain. The first time I tried it drove me nuts. I gave up and left my dev environment in webbrick. I tried again a couple of months later with a different package and it went as smooth as possible.
It is important to note though, that FastCGI is not specific to Rails/Ruby in any way. Nor is it required to run it. In fact it predates Rails by quite a bit. Though it sure does boost performance. - coolguy69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Can somebody tell me why this page
http://www.symfony-project.com/demo/cart
does not work when ActiveX is disabled in IE? - jesusphreak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I agree, not everyone wants to learn Ruby, but they'd be silly not to. Its not a hard language to learn at all. If you are even semi-competent in any programming language, you'll pick up Ruby very quickly. I just don't think a valid excuse for not trying/using Rails is that you "didn't want to learn Ruby".
- znxster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is very nice, I'm most impressed with the Cart demo, think I might start tampering with some code... dugg!
- fahdmirza, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Looks Nice uptill yet.
- smhill, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"OK, so who has an AJAX framework for ASP?"
I hope you are kidding. If not, there is no such thing as an "AJAX framework". The article has a crappy title. It is a PHP5 web framework. It has support for easy use of the prototype.js library. You don't need a framework to use AJAX. It is just javascript. Prototype has javascript AJAX classes that are tight and well built. - ghopper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Good to hear it's being used on big traffic sites. Hopefully symfony will become what Rails is for Ruby and Django for Python. Keep up the good work !
- willi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Ok, so anyway... I tried RoR, and it's great, but I wont be using it. I can't stand the fact I that I can't use sprocs and I have to name table columns certain ways. Sorry RoR, good thing going, but I want control. :)"
You can control. you can override everything the way you like. - riaxz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0H! Folks,
hmm..Symfony is impressive..i would love to try it out.
abt Rails: it's simply awesome.
simple, easy to learn n implement (u can try u r hands at).i've been using it since last 6 Months.
lets c how Rails n PHP evolve futher in future. - coolguy69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0thx for the help.. much appreciated
- jgchristopher, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Everyone should learn both! Ruby on Rails and Symfony. Never know when a client will say no to Ruby but yes to Php.
- jinxie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1dugg because of that comment
- Cosmos95, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Freal... whats up with every programming story that makes it to the front being about yet another AJAX Framework or some AJAX demo?
- smhill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"considering rails was originally designed on php, i feel like this one would have been better if it WAS a complete clone of rails."
Are you sure? Do you have a link? My understanding was that it was built but because of short-comings of php, but I can't anything to support that. - jinxie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I don't know, I wasn't very impressed by their mock up demo, mainly because they tried to make it look EXACTLY like ruby's demo, but didn't include ANY of the features that make rails cool... like ActiveRecord.. i mean, the cart demo didn't really need that framework whatsoever to generate that page, minus the ajax (which has nothing to do with php)-- i could probably do that in php faster without symfony than with.
The real advantage of Rails is the controller -> model -> view philosophy, stressing the MODEL part, which is the connection to a database. I didn't see any database work in the demo, making this framework totally pointless for real life scenarios.
Finally, Rails isn't AJAX, that's just one of its features-- I don't see why they're being compared. - haekal, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0this digg very late on Ajax. Why this digg didn't use ajax technology???
- jinxie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0considering rails was originally designed on php, i feel like this one would have been better if it WAS a complete clone of rails.
- Jasoco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Dugg just so I can be number 666.
- smhill, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0I didn't want to learn Ruby. Then I had to for a project and I was pissed that I had avoided it earlier. Ruby is elegant and fast for code. Rails kicks all kinds of ass.
If you need help learning it, here are some cartoon foxes to walk you through the basics:
http://poignantguide.net/ruby/chapter-3.html - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Stupid AJAX everything...
Ok, we get it, its "AJAXIFIED", move on! - smhill, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Ditto everything jesusphreak said.
Neat idea to create a Rails knock-off in PHP, but why not just use the original? They have a demo app to build a blog just like Rails and it really showcases the elegance of Rails over this thing. - jinxie, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0"Because this is Digg. 20% of all front page topics must have AJAX in the title."
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