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- marcusramberg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16Forgot, if you're not a Catalyst user, Catalyst is a perl based framework for writing modern web applications. You can read more about it at http://www.catalystframework.org/
- hobbified, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Maybe it's because ColdFusion is a hoax and nobody takes it seriously :)
- kevinold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The docs are one of the *major* improvements in the 5.70 release!!!
Here's a link to all the docs:
http://search.cpan.org/~mramberg/Catalyst-Runtime-5.7000/
They've even added a Tutorial (oh yeah, it's awesome):
http://search.cpan.org/~mramberg/Catalyst-Runtime-5.7000/lib/Catalyst/Manual/Tutorial.pod
And one of the *best* Cookbooks I've *ever* seen:
http://search.cpan.org/~mramberg/Catalyst-Runtime-5.7000/lib/Catalyst/Manual/Cookbook.pod
I"ve been using Catalyst from the start and am in awe of the talented developers that work on Catalyst. The docs have come a long way and the Tutorial is one of the most thorough I've seen in quite a while. - Vryz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Are you firing up the Perl interpreter with every request or are you using something like FastCGI? There shouldn't be a noticable difference between Perl and PHP.
- morn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You ruined my trolling attempt. :(
- nilsonsfj, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Catalyst is really amazing. It's a framework that everyone trying to jump on the new Rapid Web Development Frameworks track should give a try.
At work, we're using it to develop a project management system and it's doing wonders for us. I can usually code in 8 hours something that would take 20 without Catalyst. And it will even look cleaner and more organized. Pretty neat. - Jezmo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2IIRC catalyst is being used to code the replacement for their hacked version of vBulletin on the SomethingAwful forums (ie. the sixth largest forum on the internet). If they pull that off I'm going to be very impressed with catalyst. I haven't coded any perl since the days of cgi-bin before I discovered php.
edit: link http://www.teambarry.com/?p=27 - hobbified, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2For sure. Catalyst goes to great lengths _not_ to provide you with anything that you don't need. It gives you HTTP handling, a dispatching system, and the overall control flow, and practically everything else is pluggable. That means lots of good things for serious applications. It means you have the maximum choice available in choosing components. It means that you can write your apps _like perl apps_ without having to learn an entirely new language. And it means that you can bypass or override any part of the process when it turns out that you know better than the Catalyst devs. On the whole a very Perlish solution. Oh, and there's no need for code generation. catalyst.pl is there for you, but it really doesn't do anything significant. That's wonderful in my book. Go Catalyst :)
- ph713, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4no, it has nothing to do with ati
- kevinold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1See my comment above about the docs...meant to post it here (hit the wrong "reply" link)
- snoopdoggydog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Catalyst is a whole lot more flexible than the other MVC web frameworks out there.
- Mazr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A MVC framework that has the power of CPAN and doesn't get in your away. Very nice. Kudos to the Catalyst team and community.
- Mazr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Here is a bulletized summary of the changes in 5.7000:
http://www.dev411.com/blog/2006/07/08/catalyst-5-7000 - davekam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Well, I don't have any random stats for you, but I can tell you that running under mod_perl or FastCGI is quite fast. FastCGI in particular is becoming more popular these days, because it's language agnostic. And there's a ton of stuff I can do in Catalyst and perl that I wouldn't dream of doing in PHP. If PHP is sufficient for your needs, by all means use it. But there are many applications that need more, and Catalyst fits the bill wonderfully for those who want to leverage the power of perl and CPAN.
- SuperSloth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Whateva I'm runnin ColdFusion on my Novell server over my brand new coax token ring network.
- kevinold, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Catalyst is very light and they've made it even lighter. You choose what modules you use. And now, you choose only the part of Catalyst you'd like on the server.
From the blog posting:
"We understand that Catalyst has a large number of dependencies, and that it can be hard to deploy your applications to production. That's why we have split the Catalyst distribution into a Runtime and Devel part. This is a cleaner design overall, and means your application only needs to install what it needs to run on the servers. For instance you no longer need to install Template Toolkit on your servers if you use HTML::Mason or another Catalyst View." - opless, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3As someone wrote below...
"I like Catalyst, but it's lacking good documentation. Most of it is out of date or incomplete. Learning to use it is very painful."
ditto with cakephp, but I'm getting into it slowly. - claco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Try it again. The 5.7 release has had a major cookbook/doc overhaul.
- hobbified, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1So your argument comes down to "I don't know how to set up a webserver so Perl sucks!" I maintain a Catalyst-based public site that uses one of the heaviest templating systems you could possibly imagine (Petal, which builds an XML tree from your template, transforms it, and then writes XML back out) and it still blows even simple PHP apps out of the water under heavy loads. Professional benchmarks (which I'm far more likely to trust than I am you) agree.
But even still, performance isn't even the *point*, or we'd be writing all of our web apps in C. Server machines, processors, and RAM are all incredibly cheap when compared to programmer hours. So the important statistic isn't runtime, it's _developer_ time. Catalyst follows the Perl philosophy of minimizing the number of things that the developer has to juggle at any one time. PHP, on the other hand, does rather poorly at that. Professional developers don't tend to like PHP much, because it makes their work harder. - snoopdoggydog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Dunno why I can't reply to morn's comment directly, but that /might/ be true, although I have no personal experience with RoR. Mind you as far as I understand it, frameworks like Jifty and RoR are good for rapid /application/ development, but Catalyst, which is not tied to any particular model (like Active Record for RoR, or Rose::DB for Jifty) is much more suited to a much wider range of web programming tasks than either of these two guys -want to use LDAP or the filesystem (for just two examples) in your model - no problem. I think that's a much bigger head-bender for other frameworks.
- ashcrow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Well because Catalyst removes the 'clukyness' from perl webdev. PHP has a similar framework if I remember correctly. I could say the same thing about PHP being a Python/Django guy. In the end, all thses modern frameworks in whatever language helps out engineers get their work done.
- markstos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1For a lighter-weight Perl framework with plenty of power, check out CGI::Application all the plugins available for it. It is compared to Catalyst here: http://cgiapp.erlbaum.net/cgi-bin/cgi-app/index.cgi?CatalystCompared
- Vouksh, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3I'm prolly going to be dugg down for this one but...
Why do people still bother with clunky, slow Perl for web apps anymore? It generates wayy too much of a server load for general use... PHP is way more supported and parses alot faster. (This is just what I found. I don't care about stats some random person did, I ran tests on my own home server) - ghenry, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4The best thing for Perl since Perl!!!
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@Recode
holy crap the comparison between ocaml and java is ridiculous, why have I been doing java,c,c++ etc for so long, I need to go back to my college roots and re-learn OCaml again. Wow. It's functional, object oriented and fast and light on memory. - bkorte, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I'm not one to bitch about these things but......
grr... a really great ColdFusion framework (Model-Glue) release can't get to the front page, yet this one does with 8 digs... - wholesomedick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Looking...
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1I do admit it's nice to have access to CPAN with your web app, but these days java can do a lot of the stuff CPAN can do. For me I would choose Struts+hibernate over Catalyst since I value re-using code and (ab)using object oriented programming. Without a good OO language your big MVC app will become spaghetti code fast. And assuming you require an MVC framework you will probably be looking at a large project thus OO will help a lot.
- wholesomedick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I like Catalyst, but it's lacking good documentation. Most of it is out of date or incomplete. Learning to use it is very painful.
- Recode, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@geronimo
The argument i made was regarding the fact that he said php is faster. It isn't. wtf is your point/argument? It's obvious that a programmer wouldn't use languages that are hard to work with and have little support or have a small community. People use PHP because it's easy to learn and simple to work with. But I'm not arguing that (which is what your argument is). learn2read and comprehend what you're reading. Stupid pig *****. - wholesomedick, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Links?
catalystframwork.org looks like all the same old stuff. - morn, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2And you'd probably only need 1 hour if you were using Ruby on Rails.
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1(wish i could delete messages)
- sych0, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4does this have to do with ati
- luke--, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1*has nothing to do with ati*
- aaronshaf, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3*cough* CakePHP *cough* is great.
- Recode, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1@Vouksh
rofl. you got no clue do you?
"PHP is way more supported and parses alot faster."
The most uninformed sentence I've read. Do some actual research and learn the languages before you speak. Otherwise you just look stupid. You sound like a novice, so I'll leave you with some links to read:
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/debian/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=php&lang2=perl
http://www.daniel-lemire.com/blog/archives/2006/01/09/574/ - davekam, on 10/12/2007, -6/+2Catalyst rules, yo :)
- casloeber, on 10/12/2007, -6/+1The pimp sauce
- krani1, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2the best thing I desovered after beer :D
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