What is Digg?109 Comments
- joe90210, on 10/12/2007, -10/+71you are so ignorant, maybe you should look into the additions of 3.0 before you make moronic comments like "it's designed to break mono", MS is releasing a better framework for windows developpers to improve the process of creating windows apps, what do you want them to do? retard windows development so the linux implementation of their framework keeps up? get a clue.
- bluemist, on 10/12/2007, -3/+36Crap, my Turbo C++ program...
- Tordenflesk, on 10/12/2007, -13/+44Isn't it about time they roll 1.1, 2.0 and 3.0 into one? Could save some space and make it run better.
Currently .NET takes up more space on the C: drive than the rest of my XP install. - joe90210, on 10/12/2007, -3/+31ya abandon development for 90%+ of the world computers in order to learn proprietary apple technologies, after all, apple won't make you learn new frameworks, they'll make you learn an entirely new platform.
- fajardojf, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27im assuming your NOT an experienced VS2005 .NET developer. Im a huge supporter of opensource and ive used ever known internet web2.0 framework under the sun, but not anymore.
Ever since looking into vs2005 and all its amazing features (along with what the WPF, WCF, and WF components have to offer) this development environment kicks ass!
My productivity has gone through the roof and i can realize projects that i only ever really dreampt about. Just recentlyl i created a portal application with full profile/membership and ajax style look&feel in under a week. It was amazing how much productivty features microsoft have built into the studio and .net framework (3.0)..
So before you make bad reviews on the .net framework 3.0 and vstudio2005 (with enhancements) take the time to learn or read up on the product. - thushan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+27another mis-informed tool on Digg
Take a long hard look at Java and take a long hard look at .NET, while standard bashers will just say "oh .NET is a cheaper version of Java on Windows" (rather C# looks like etc etc) if you really consider what you find inside the .NET Framework (the CLR/CLI) you'll find that .NET is infact quite a massive framework with lots of little bits and pieces to help a developers life (.NET attributes, proper implementation of Generics - compared to Java's Hackish Generics implementation), JSP vs ASP.NET (oh sorry, Java Server Faces). Framework 3.0 makes things a stackload easier and you'll see with the Orcas update's what that will mean for Vista developers too!
If you want a proper example of .NET Application written right take a look at Paint.NET, the stuff they've done with that really show how much you can take a managed platform and turn it into something that feels quite different.
Mono's in a seperate boat. Dont mix the MSFT .NET Framework with the Mono .NET Framework. - Trevahaha, on 10/12/2007, -2/+253.0 is really just .NET 2.0 with WCF & WPF rolled into it... so no change :-) It's just called "3.0" for marketing reasons.
- weprin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26We're about to roll out our first 2.0 app at the end of this year!
- weprin, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30@joe90210, spot on.
- joe90210, on 10/12/2007, -1/+213.0 includes 2.0 in it, the major changes are the addition of 4 new components: (from wikipedia)
*Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF), formerly code-named Avalon; a new user interface subsystem and API based on XML and vector graphics, which will make use of 3D computer graphics hardware and Direct3D technologies.
*Windows Communication Foundation (WCF), formerly code-named Indigo; a service-oriented messaging system which allows programs to interoperate locally or remotely similar to web services.
*Windows Workflow Foundation (WF) allows for building of task automation and integrated transactions using workflows.
*Windows CardSpace (WCS), formerly code-named InfoCard; a software component which securely stores a person's digital identities and provides a unified interface for choosing the identity for a particular transaction, such as logging in to a website. - MrPig, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21Being as it was just released not many. I for one am not a fan of .NET but it does make coding a lot easier - especially GUI's - so I find myself using it more and more. I'm beginning to welcome the new versions of .NET... it took me a while but Microsoft is starting to win over another developer... I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not :-/
- pumacub, on 10/12/2007, -8/+24WPF, WCF, and WF are awesome additions to .NET.
- Sargos, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18.Net 3.0 is using the same framework as .Net 2.0, so your applications will require no code changes in order to use it.
.Net 3.0 is a bundle release and includes other technologies such as WPF, WCF, and WF all in one package.
When .Net 4.0 comes out (which will be the third version of the framework) then you will have to worry about porting your apps. - munra, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19You might be waiting a while. There wasn't a service pack for 2.0
- Supafly, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18They're separate frameworks, that's like saying they should roll all the Java's into a single package.
Most things that run under the 1.0/1.1 frameworks run fine under the 2.0 framework, and the 3.0 framework is the SAME EXACT CLR as the 2.0 framework, except they added the vista enhancements. WPF, WCF and others.
Vista will ship with .NET 3.0 BUILT IN (FINALLY), and if I recall, it can't be removed, not that you would ever need too. - Vouksh, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18I shunned the .NET framework till I started playing with C#, now I'm in love. There's so many tutorials on even the most abstract things you could possibly want to do, and 90% of the functionality that is required for fast-paced programming is already there.
- Supafly, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16Yeah, what DO you mean? 3.0 ships with vista, it's integrated and can't be removed. Which is why 3.0 had to be RTM'd before Vista is later this month...
- netdroid9, on 10/12/2007, -8/+20Yeah, just like Vista is to break compatibility with Wine, and that GDI is only there to lock people into a proprietary library when there are cross-platform libraries like GTK+ available for coders to use for free.
- Dogtown7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13It's all about time/cost/money savings. Hopefully, you're company's decision to switch entirely off of .NET wasn't fueled by a single event - which was caused by faulty network admining.
- Trevahaha, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12There aren't. Everything that works in .NET 2.0 works in "3.0" -- it just adds support for WPF, WCF, WF, WCS..
- jaydoug, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17crap, I just rolled our first 2.0 appication out last year...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I'm surprised to see a fair amount of of positive postings regarding the 3.0 framework, usually any reference to the dreaded MS technologies creates a storm of LAMP defenders.
I think the Workflow Foundation in this release is huge, workflow applications have been overpriced for years making it difficult for most businesses to really streamline their operations. Look at pricing for K2.NET, Skelta, or any workflow app and you are talking serious $.
It looks great, we have already starting using this to create workflow between ERP systems and Sharepoint for document repositories - it is unbelievable this is now bundled with the existing Framework.
I would strongly encourage those of you with development minds to check it out and start consulting! There are some seriously powerful tools here for businesses! - Dogtown7, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11The Empire Strikes Back-
As a veteran .NET developer, you guys are missing the point - this is a watershed moment for web developers.
What we have here is a battle for the browser. HTML is slow to render and very inflexible, relying on a mix of static images and on/off styles to apply effects. Google has probably hit the wall with what can be done with HTML/CSS2 and javascript, which is a close approximation to a slow desktop app. Microsoft is gearing XAML to replace HTML enitrely for web applications. XAML will provide a fast loading, vector based UI within a browser via a plug-in (which will be standard in Vista - similar to Flash). What this means is that Microsoft Developers can create a rich UI within a browser that will work on all browsers (provided they have the plugin - like Flash) that will be far superior to any HTML/Javascript web 2.0 UI's that exist today. The only caveat is that you must have IIS 7/.NET 3.0 (Windows OS) to serve the pages. The good old lock-in $$$. It's Adobe Flex, coupled with the .NET framework being rolled out on a much larger scale. MXML vs XAML vs HTML. I fully expect to see an open source version of this technology emerge, once enough LAMP developers comprehend that HTML is in peril. - joe90210, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14what do you mean?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14That's a good thing, you should be empowered to create better apps quicker.
- akcoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@Sargos: Actually the next version of the .NET framework is supposed to be version 3.5. 3.5 will include C# 3.0, LINQ, extension methods and a bunch of other cool stuff.
- thushan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@superkendall
I use NetBeans quite regularly where I work (most of the time in VS.NET land for the C++ stuff we do) and love Netbeans, but there are times you just have to swear or smash something when it comes to Tomcat and deploying web applications (WAR's are good but sometimes the server chucks a spazz).
I use IntelliJ (which was the first - if i'm not mistaken) to include the refactoring bits that all major IDEs have (VS.NET's Refactoring tool needs a boost, for big project it simply cant cope, netbeans on the other hand is OK for small projects but fails on large ones too!)
What drew me away from JSP was Struts, I love the idea of ActionForms but the learning curve and the amount of work to do was not worth it. Atleast JSF is a step in the right direction...
@thombone
No not really, I'm just iterating what others have said about the lack of information you do know about .NET and how immature your remarks were. Had you used it and played with it you may even like it (but oooohhh wait you might be a fully-sik open source guy that doesnt touch *anything* with Micro$oft on it) grow up and take it like a man.... atleast w0rd was truthful in his comment about not being experienced with .NET - Brahma, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I would have expected to see the big headlines on MSDN. Strangely it is missing..
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11na this is all silly, don't worry about it, I'm glad Microsoft is in aggressive development mode.
- FatHed, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Only the control panel needs .net, if you download the drivers only package then you don't need the .net framework.
- thushan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7you better stay away from the upcoming JNode java operating system then:
http://www.jnode.org/
For anyone else considering such stupid moves, get the Omega Radeon Drivers (with ATI Tray Tools) or just dont choose Express when you install teh AMD/ATI Radeon drivers and deselect Control Center..
You'll see why they went with managed code very soon:-) - insidein, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14My workplace is still in the process of converting from 1.1 to 2.0, don't think we will be moving to 3.0 anytime soon.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6gotta love digg, the web designers had to go vote today
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11Every few weeks? 3 major releases and 1 minor in what ... 8 years? You poor ***** thing.
- Vouksh, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Thank god for them finally integrating it. Makes it so much easier on devs like me who make .NET apps for the general public that have no flipping clue what .NET is. Most of them think your talking about a website...
Phone call with my last employer:
Me: "Speaking"
Employer (now Emp): "We tried to run that program you made for us, but it crashes with some weird error"
Me: "What version of Windows is installed on the machine?"
Emp: "Windows XP, we made sure of that."
Me: "Good. Do you have .NET 2.0 installed?"
Emp: "Is that a new website? How do you install a website?"
Me: "No, it's a set of libraries and runtime parsers.. oh never mind. What's your address? I'll come install it for you."
Emp: "Okay we're on "
Me: "Alright, I'm on my way"
2 hours later I finally had it running on their computer.
Am I the only one celebrating the integration of this? - thombone, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11Good move! Seriously, good move.
- filipf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6This is not a new version with all the greatness of C# 3.0. It's basically FX 2.0 + WinFX. Microsoft renamed WinFX to .NET 3.0 because .NET is better known. Just a marketing trick. I myself am waiting for Orcas and C# 3.0.
- FatHed, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6so does java, takes up lots of space I mean
- brianjlowry, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Yes, unfortunately you will need an entirely new computer with a fresh install of Vista. Then you will need to download 8 different components to make it work with the new Studio. Of course, you could rtfa and see that it works with 2005. ;D
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5hip hip hurray!
I can't wait to install this :D - aptasi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4No, it wasn't just one event that has prompted the switch. It's been brewing for a while, and this worm (on current systems with current AV software) was just one more event that cost us time and money.
- adamkmccarthy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3was calling it version three a mistake? they have added a few namespaces but they haven't changed its core at all. isn't this just 2.1? It might freak people out a bit - 2.0 still isnt widely available with hosting companies and now we have 3.
@hchaudh1 is right too. Version controls already suck enough, as do deployments. this is just going to be another headache... - martin308, on 10/30/2007, -1/+3check them out, they are doing some really cool stuff -> http://www.openlaszlo.org/.
I agree that HTML etc. may not be the tools of choice for much longer - saifatlast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Can someone explain to me what exactly a workflow app isdoes? What does WF do for someone developing such an application?
- Dotnetsky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Microsoft has a penchant for renaming products, which sometimes borders on the ridiculous. They just renamed ATLAS "Microsoft AJAX .NET" when even comrade Jesse has now admitted that AJAX is a misnomer. Get over it.
- Trevahaha, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@Dragular
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework
I recommend reading this over the ASP.NET article, as ASP.NET is a subset of .NET Framework.
Microsoft's Definition:
http://www.microsoft.com/net/basics.mspx - mypenis, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7Cool. Man, my crew was just getting training on 2.0. Sheesh. MS sure works fast.
I was wondering if anyone has any insight on this version as oppose to 2.0.
Good and bad. - pucosk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Just create an installer with .NET redist bundled.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4html is already dead if you don't live off google. I think nike.com is living proof of that. And Lazlo is based on javascript like the dhtml/ajax model. And javascript is dying with html. There's been alot of talk in the Flash community that flex/apollo just killed any chance of Lazlo being a player. The open source community won't be able to move quick enough, Adobe/Google and Microsoft are at each other's throats.
- Dotnetsky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2They do get compiled to native code, idiot!
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