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39 Comments
- RichCoder, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16Perhaps they are looking for a way to bypass some of the ISPs that are attempting to block VOIP that they arn't selling themselves.
-rich - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+16I am sure no one will be weeping tonight because you didn't
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8This might sound a bit harsh, and even unrealistic to the unwashed, but:
The very first question that anyone qualified for that position should ask is: "How much does this pay?"
Any answer less than 150K/year, regardless of promised bonuses is not even close to good enough. - jesusphreak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Too bad I can't edit the last post. On second glance, they don't just want people with experience in those things they mentioned, they want this:
• Expert programming skills in C
• Competent with Lex, YACC, awk
• Expert network programming skills, including development with epoll and highly multithreaded programming environments..
• Expert scripting/programming skills in sh, tk/tcl/expect, Perl
• Database programming/administration skills including generic SQL and ORACLE/MySQL specifically
• Expert TCP/IP network administrator including familiarity with IPv6.
In that case, $150k is reasonable and I see your point. Their initial description is pretty misleading. - airjrdn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4It all depends on where you live. In a city, 150K might not be much. Where I live, you'd be driving a killer car and owning a kickass house.
- cphuntington97, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Please use the drop down box to mark this as spam.
- sspooner, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Since when has kernel hacking involved SQL and Python. Classic.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You mean the sarcasm point?
http://www.slate.com/id/2111172/ - Pests, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I can't tell if your being sarcastic or not.. or even in a good or bad way.
We should get a team of top notch scientists together to find out how hard it is to determine sarcasm over the Internet.... - rsh28630, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2If you wonder why programming jobs are going off-shore, look no farther than the comment by "yttrx".
Vonage offers a 'starting position' at entry level pay. Only a buffoon applying for a 'starting position' at entry level pay feels entitled to demand more than twice that amount without proving h/she can craft a single competent line of code. Here's a clue from someone who hires programmers and is always searching for brilliant, creative programmers: If you're good enough to be earning top dollar, first determine if the company and the project are worthy and of interest to you. If so, understand that the second you establish your credibility, any employer worth spit will be willing to reward you with increased compensation commensurate with your competence.
Truly great code smiths are very hard to find and worth every dollar they deserve. Only a fool or a thief tries to negotiate a low wage that simply cheats a brilliant and creative programmer. By contrast, I have learned that anyone who first screams about the salary before going to work is often an incompetent simply seeking a fast hit prior to termination for wholly inept code.
With China and India, the former Soviet Union and South America all producing English speaking programmers who can code from a cabin in the comfort of their own country with its adjusted wage scale operating in their favor, the days of $150K starting salaries for what could be little more than an unproven script kiddie are long gone.
The unfamiliar odor wafting around that apparently some haven't noticed... its coffee brewing in another country while you were sleeping. Wake up and take a big sniff. Welcome to the real world. - mkc84, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My brother said that there should be sarcasm quote marks, they would be used like regular quote marks but just for sarcasm, he suggested that they look like two fish giving each other a high five. He's reasoning "(two fish giving high five) when you think about it, it's a great idea (two fish giving high five)."
- MikeCampo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+7no.
- FuzzyCat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"If i understand how this work"
You don't. the whole point of using udp is that it's fast. The encode and send cycle is quick. udp is connectionless, and there's no guarantee of delivery. These are all trade offs that you have to use for something like voip. Besides, if a packet gets lost, you do NOT want it retransmitted, there's no point. What are you going to do hold up all the other packets until the one that went missing turns up? This is real time - we can't have voice data hanging around waiting for what will end up being a fraction of a word.
In the end you have to decide:
Do I want speed and fairly good reliability.
Do I want 100% reliability but potentially poor latency..
For things like voice, people will put up with the odd pop, squeak or crackle. What they wont put up with is 10 second delays while 'lost' udp are resent (obviously using application checksums or the like). Which is why it all ends up as udp rather than tcp - speed.
There's also another thing. Lots of people like to use VPN's, and tunneling tcp over a tcp ends up being slow. Tunneling udp over tcp is much more effective. - skidooer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"A significant portion of the position is designing, writing and/or maintaining various user space programs, kernel modules, and scripts written primarily in C, perl, shell, and tcl/tk."
Kernel hacking is only part of the job. - forger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I must say their job description is highly anorthodox:
"We are looking for someone with experience supporting dozens, hundreds or even thousands of geographically distributed Unix or Linux servers running lights out/hands off." - That is called a server administrator, not a hacker.
"We are looking for someone who is an independent and creative thinker, but works well as part of a team." - What, distributed password cracking? :)
"We are looking for someone who expects to do 95% of their work in a text based environment." - Right. I'm using GUIs wherever it is possible.
I believe they're looking for a new owner, not an emplyee. - Ringo47, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Even if such a talented and multi-faceted person existed, the company would have to hit the lottery to get someone with a decent personality, that could survive the pressures of a programming, deploying, being an "expert" system/network (and db) admin for a large scale, distributed environment in a growth industry."
You don't get the kind of experience listed in the article by hacking in your mom's basement. Chances are pretty good that anyone who truly has the skills listed also has the skills you listed. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think you missed the part of the ad where the qualifications were listed. In case you did, they were pasted in the second reply to my original comment. This is *not* an entry-level coding position. I understand that many entry-level coding positions, even in big, very expensive cities pay less than 60K. And rightfully so.
The fact is they're looking for a great ability in a highly irregular skillset--and they're going to have to pay for it, as well they should. - RealityBender, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1i don't see much of a future for this
If i understand how this work they try to in real time encode audio break it into packets. Next they use the unreliable UDP to send the message. - Nodren, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1sounds to me like vonage is using Asterisk(google it, its an open source PBX), or a modified version of it. and just wants better support kernel side for it.
- RealityBender, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1UDP is fast because it remove all checking. The only checking it does is to the header check sum and an optional check sum of the data. The Internet is reliable that the check sum on the data can slide. The out of order can be solved by checking the sequence numbers are in order.
The major problem is if you have sender and receiver has different speed of computer and Internet. UDP lack a source quench if the faster computer or Internet sends to many packet over the Internet the slower computer will have a buffer overflow and loose packet. The solution is to send a reply with serial numbers like TFTP but when a packet is delayed and not lost causes a sorcerer apprentice but which double the packet sent which just make the problem worse. What this means you get a bunch of crap for sound. - zoltan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1doesnt vonage know that whatever they come up with the telecoms are just gonna look for it.. its a shame they can do that..its like blocking the real google and having a ***** att version of google that costs $ but hey its THEIR network and they own it right.. *****. that.
- FuzzyCat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sounds like B.S. to me.
If Vonage want to use an open source sip proxy it wont be asterisk (asterisk isn't actually a sip proxy at all) it'd probably be ser (it is a sip proxy). Certainly, in my eyes, asterisk alone would not be a good choice for a network of any real size (10's of 1000's of users).
I'm pretty sure that Vonage actually have money and aren't afraid to buy commercial hardware. - dossy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How the hell did this get 300+ diggs?! There needs to be an "un-digg" that gives it a -1 ... so we can correct the buffoonery.
- sundancekid503, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Would anyone digg this if it didn't have the word "hackers" in the title? Probably not.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0- Considering the job spec, I think it's safe to say that Vonage knows what they're talking about. You're basically describing VoIP, which I'm pretty sure is an established technology with a future.
- Where does it say UDP? Anyways, UDP is quite often used for VoIP as it eliminates the overhead of TCP and has lower latency. UDP's usefulness really depends on the application, however.
- There's quite a bit more to this job than the network aspect; see the kernel module, multi-threading and parsing requirements. - FuzzyCat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0rt :(
- AD7GD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The funny thing is that I really *do* have a watch set to UTC (as the second timezone) for flight planning. But I guess the real challenge here is to ferret out details like the job title, location, salary range, contact information, ... Perhaps the next digg will be "Vonage is seeking a recruiter who can write great blog spam..."
BTW, for those who haven't visited the site, here's a hint: The important content is the text on the screen that is not scrolling in any direction. *dizzy* - cheesy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Why is this news? This sounds like a generic job posting written by some anti-Windows guy. Nothing like an Apple job posting 2 years ago requesting x86 assembly experience or something...
- YourAnalogBuddy, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9spam? or did i sign onto monster by accident...
- StinkyMonkeyCat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Wow, they only left out device driver writer and short order cook in the skill set list.
Even if such a talented and multi-faceted person existed, the company would have to hit the lottery to get someone with a decent personality, that could survive the pressures of a programming, deploying, being an "expert" system/network (and db) admin for a large scale, distributed environment in a growth industry.
Unless this is more smoke that reality, it looks like a heck of a "character builder" job to me.. - FuzzyCat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@ RealityBender
Not sure why Digg wont actually let me reply to your message starting "UDP is fast because it remove all checking. The only checking it..."
You seem unable to grasp the point. That's how VoIP works. Your TFTP example just doesn't make sense at all. TFTP or any non-realtime protocol can quite happily send ack/nak messages without a problem for the simple reason that they are NOT realtime. VoIP is realtime, so you don't actually have the time to mess about and delay packets. Your ears are not like a computer (at least I hope not). If a computer tries to get data from a TFTP, say to boot, and packets are missing then the machine can't boot, it only understands the 1's and 0's it can't make assumptions. You on the other hand, have the advantage that you can interpret the data in context and even if you don;t quite hear something can generally fill in.
Uncompressed audio is sent at approx 80kb/s and requires minimal processing, if you need to lower the bitrate you use Codecs, this allows compression of the audio and lower bandwidth. Unfortuneately it also tends to increase the cpu/chip count at either end. If a machine can't cope with uncompressed audio or lower bitrates like 6kb/s then it's underspecced... Would you expect to break the land speed record in a Fiat Punto? The use of VAD can ease traffic volume, but imho calls with VAD on tend to sound sh*t - it's all in the sensitivity. - culebra, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4You know when people call things like this spam I kinda get a little upset. I mean, this seems like a serious peice of news that somebody might want to know about. I mean digg is a perfectly resonable place to post something like this. It's not just a tech site, but a tech community. Although I will conceed the fact that I think digg needs to have some forums. That would be cool.
- l337phoenix, on 10/12/2007, -10/+6ya that could be, but what I find funny is that they want people good with linux and unix... a acouple articles down the page there is one titled "Linux flaw could lead to DoS attacks"
just a random ironic moment... - PsyX, on 10/12/2007, -10/+6I don't see how this is news at all. It's a help wanted add and nothing more.
- MikeCampo, on 10/12/2007, -10/+6Seems like they need people with programming experience, so they're asking for some, douche bag.
- jesusphreak, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1I admittedly don't have the experience I need, and only have a small bit of Python and SQL knowledge under by belt.
However, if I were coming right out of college and did have a good amount of experience in those two (or any of the others), and Vonage were offering $60k or more, would I jump all over this?. Heck yeah. That's A LOT of money for anyone really. I know people who have worked for 30 years and are making 50k or less (and they support a family).
Not to mention its a hell of a thing to have on your resume. - talash, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4I think this can be one of the coolest jobs!
- jesusphreak, on 10/12/2007, -11/+1*deleted*
- PsyX, on 10/12/2007, -24/+7Seems more like a publicity stunt to get the attention of various people. I'm not digging this one at all...
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