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122 Comments
- staticfish, on 10/12/2007, -4/+30I'm sorry but this is really stupid. It just looks like some guys has thrown a bunch of programming languages down on a Visio flowchart diagram, in any order.
How could Visual Basic programmers possibly see themselves superior than 'OO' programmers. And I really don't think that AJAX programmers (what the hell?) see themselves above Pascal people.
I bet this guy hasn't ever coded a line of anything. - Sartori, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24Recently it seems to me like Ruby programmers are the ones thinking they're at the top of the hierarchy, when in fact they're just fad-of-the-month.
The programmers *really* at the top of the pile? Those of us who can and do use the language best suited to a particular job, while laughing at those who blindly apply one tool to all situations... - astatine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21Usually it makes you part of management.
...so yes, a dick ;) - Obsidian743, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21The real problem here is not the language it's the people using it and I don't mean personalities. Each of those languages comes with a certain degree of difficulty and require varying degrees of technical aptitude and experience. Each are more likely to draw a certain crowd. Ruby especially is a fairly new, easy to use language that will gravitate to the younger, more inexperienced RAD programmers. C/C++, Java, Assembler, etc. will draw the older, more educated and experienced programmers who have a really intimate knowledge of computing systems and lower level details. C# will tend to draw both, being fairly new and refined versions of Java/C++. PHP being a relatively "new" open-source and web-centric and could be considered a poor-man's Perl. The reason languages like Visual Basic are snubbed are not because of the language (VB can be quite powerful) but because it's associate with words like "easy, simple, non-technical, high schoolers and BASIC." Of course no self-respecting programmer who can read and write register calls in binary will equate their development with that. FORTRAN, COBOL, and ADA are snubbed simply because they're incredibly old and not up to par with the entire needs of the most modern development projects.
That's just my opinion. I grew up living and breathing in C/C++. I don't have any specific opinion of C vs. Python/Ruby but what I do know is that I find very few Ruby and Python developers that I can truly consider programmers in a classical sense. To me it's like calling a script kiddie a hacker/cracker. Okay, but not quite. - wastern, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19i don't program anything anymore and i still look down on everybody. what does that make me? just a dick?
- eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21I'm sure you can't back that up. And I'm sure assembly programmers are laughing all the way to their yachts filled with money.
- eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -8/+26I can't help but think there's a rather large subset of Java programmers who are quite literally erotic furries.
- astatine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18@becominglumberg : And neither do I.
Learning PHP and being sniffy about having to work with HTML would be like working in Java but refusing to 'lower yourself' to learning the theory of OOP, or being happy to work in Perl but carping about "all those ugly-looking regular expressions". - kyriakos, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17I liked the HTML is a programming language comment.. its so true
- Obsidian743, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16@brucemalloy
Lay off. It's obviously not his primary language. At least he tried to contribute in our own language.
What's really pathetic are the idiots who speak English natively and post unreadable/nonsensical crap. - geocar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+19digg for saying something every lisp and assembly programmer that has actually had to look at java code, has secretly thought ...
- astatine, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13You program HTML parsers in assembly?
- bpapa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13What the hell is an "AJAX programmer?" Somebody that knows how to use one function (well, two, i guess because of the cross-browser stuff)? Or somebody that knows how to do that and manipulate the DOM well?
- bpapa, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I'm not so sure that Java devlopers make the most money, but they probably have the easiest time finding a job. Maybe the guys higher on this graph have more time to look down on others because they are unemployed.
- Cymsdale, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I have no idea what this means, or what motivated me to do so, but I dugg this for the title alone.
Now please help me hide my shame by burying this comment. - suomi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Because the diagram was thrown together without the creator knowing anything about that which he is referring to.
- defluo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Amen, i get so tired of people that think there is a catch all solution. You gotta use the best tool for the job.
- Akyan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10How can anyone who programs with javascript believe that they are superior to java programmers?
- becominglumberg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9If a Pascal programmer hasn't learned anything since Pascal came out, they should be lower on the totem pole, IMHO.
- joeshlub, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8So true. It's not like all of these languages are interchangable. There are a great deal of applications where not being able to stray between languages would limit you greatly.
- matx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8:D I am at the bottom and at the top :D
- djork, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I like how people lump "Ruby programmers" with "people who have heard of Ruby on Rails and barely understand the language." The note on the bottom of the chart about Ruby programmers not being aware of any non-web languages is utterly ignorant in itself. When Rails came out I said to myself: "cool, a decent way to use Ruby for web programming."
I agree with the above poster about using what's suited for the job. When it comes to work you may catch me using Java one day, C# the next, PHP the third, OCaml at lunch, and Ruby every day to actually get things done.
Also, what's so wrong with Java, anyway? It's far more parsimonious than C++. - terrablebyte, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I also agree with the statement: "WTF is visual basic doing that high?"
Java > VB. - Novagenesis, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7You're kidding, right?
He programs cross-hardware-assemblers using HTML links, cascading style sheets, and maybe a couple lines of javascript - zaphodfl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I dugg your comment.
- heptat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Care factor = zero. Why do we "nerds" have to produce rubbish like this? Just to incite programmers using different languages to argue? And the author had a big whinge that he's not on digg!! OMG, what a freakin' mole.
- gcube9x, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Dugg for furries, lol furries.
- strictnein, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@becominglumberg:
I can't understand it either. You're quite the friend. - suomi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Got to agree - I see no logic in that diagram; it just does not make sense... So it is not all that funny.
And where is Objective-C? - brundlefly76, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I'm a Perl programmer and not biased at all to say the following...
The concepts, depth, power, and the enterprise-based implementations of Java are pretty much rocket science to a PHP programmer people.
You dont see 20,000 PHP programmers on Wall St developing bulletproof distributed object trading systems between legacy software with 99.99% uptime in PHP.
People who look down on Java programmers are the same people that think Java is a language for making web applets. - ivachen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@becominglumberg you need to get down your high horse and start to understand that programming correct HTML code that work across platforms is not a trivil task. Sure everyone can put up a HTML page that looks decent on IE with some WYSIWYG editor but being just that it almost guarantees the webpage will going to ***** up on some browsers with resource, let alone it will have any worth to a blind person who uses a HTML reader.
- brucemolloy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12@VADIM:
Brother, you have just proven that the English language is not self documenting. - itsallgeektome, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7I don't understand what all the fuss is about... A language is a TOOL and nothing more. Mostly I'm doing C# now, but I've been known to break out Java, or lisp or whatever else suits the particular need for what I'm working on. A good programmer shouldn't be obsessed with the language so much as finding the right fit for what you're trying to build.
To paraphrase an old cliche': If all you've got is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.
Is C++ better than VB? Depends on the application. Depends on how well written each program is (you can certainly write a kludge in either). To sum it all up...
THE LANGUAGE DOESN'T MATTER, THE END RESULT DOES. PERIOD.
/Rant - BufordT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4All that work thinking up and creating a diagram, and the text is barely legible.
- violentvinyl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5TO UNDERSTAND THIS JOKE YOU HAVE TO READ http://www.brunching.com/geekhierarchy.html ALSO! DO NOT COMMENT UNTIL AFTER YOU HAVE SEEN BOTH DIAGRAMS! ITS REFERENCED IN THE ARTICLE, BUT CLEARLY MOST ARE MISSING IT.
Sorry, that's alot easier than posting replies to all the comments of people who don't get it. - BitwiseMcgee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm going to be laughing at all you suckers when you think one language is enough. Sooner or later, your tools will change. If you treat the language as some sort of 'team' you're on, then you will lose
Languages are tools, use the tool for the job. I don't try to program microcontrollers in Java, and I don't try to program large, bloated software in assembly. - ZergyPoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I couldn't agree more. I think there is too much of a tendancy to lump people into categories, like "Java Developer" or "php Developer." Where in fact the most valuable developers will be able to jump in and learn any of these languages to best accomplish the task at hand.
Much more valuable is someone who can sit down and learn a new language/technology, then someone who is a wiz at only one language. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I'm having trouble seeing how Java relates to errotic furries in any way, shape or form.
- andreas1999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3more like a couple of lines of coke if he's going to get that ***** working.. :)
- n3m3s1s, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Digg for geek humor, not for comparing sizes.
- bondo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4It is not the language that determines the capability of the developer, rather it is their experience of the methodology, language and platform they are currently using combined with their logical reasoning skills and business knowledge. Most of us in the trenches use multiple languages, we will typically have one language that we use more than others, and in fact it is not uncommon for this to change between projects. So how do I rate myself when I switch from php to c#, or c# to VB6? Ive used c# *and* java on some projects. If you need to work out your relative position on the geek pecking order then the easiest way is to look at your paycheck - getting paid higher than average wage? Then your doing pretty well, and I think this would apply to many serious Java devs, and very few ruby programmers.
- buglord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Had a co-student who was all proud that he was even allowed to "program" html during his internship. Oh, did I say he studied compsci?
He was the only one I knew of who managed 5 semesters without a computer, he didn't even have an effing email address! - tont0r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I enjoy my job as a java developer. Fortunately, since my work only uses java, I use VB, C++, .net, amongst others, for my own personal *****. I think people just have a hard time getting over the shakey beginning of java.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I do jsp development for Blackboard.com extensions and I love my job :) I do prefer C# for desktop application development though since some of the packages are a little more mature than Java's. The best part about Java I feel is that the JavaDocs are much easier to read and navigate than the MSDN
Just waiting to see what Java Mustang brings to the party ;) - violentvinyl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The Geek Hierarchy has been around for a LONG time, and I still laugh every time I see it. As parodies go, this one is pretty good, if a little niche-y.
I do think its extremely funny how a lot of the posters seem to think the diagram is anything more than a joke about how programmers think of themselves or their respective languages, and doesn't really make a statement about one language vs. another...
...But I suppose that just proves how true it is that programmers like to obsess about how one programming language is better than another. - rolosworld, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I agree...
I think HTML and most XML's are a communication protocol.. (I said most since XSL could be debatable)
who agrees? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Same here. Strangely I also like Java. I guess my job looks down on my hobbies as being SIGNIFICANTLY inferior.
- Obsidian743, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Someone who can program a full AJAX application has to have a bit more technical ability and experience than someone who simply writes JavaScript.
- violentvinyl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Look at the diagram its based on at http://www.brunching.com/geekhierarchy.html
- danielxmorris, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2According to the flow, Java programmers don't consider themselves above anyone apart from those who who call HTML a programming language. I will probably get the thumbs down on this but I consider that chart pants! It really is stupid and probably written by someone who only knows enough PHP to change the header on his Wordpress installation.
Also, a real programmer would choose the right language for the job, not the language that's will earn him or her more credibility by being more aesthetically complex. I'm not digging this. -
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