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78 Comments
- tonychenyj, on 05/15/2009, -1/+44IE 6 has been a nightmare for web developers. People please switch it to Firefox or IE 7. I am sick of getting the website showing correctly for all browsers.
- billraydrums, on 05/16/2009, -2/+28http://ie6update.com/
Embed that on a page and further kill that piece of *****. - amoeba, on 05/16/2009, -3/+16Question: How much extra money has Internet Explorer cost clients worldwide for the extra development time required to make IE resemble a standards supporting browser?
Answer: Too much.
Question: How much time has Internet Explorer cost developers worldwide for the extra work required to make IE resemble a standards supporting browser?
Answer: Too much.
IE6 - please die, please. - racken, on 05/16/2009, -3/+15its even easier to just the code
<!--[if lte IE 6]>
Are you a ****ing moron don't use IE6!!!!!!!!!!!!
<![endif]-->
and problem solved. - nytel, on 05/16/2009, -2/+11IE6? LOL... It's 2009.
- JonnyCasino, on 05/15/2009, -2/+10agreed. As much as I'd love to abolish IE 6, one of mine major clients, unfortunately, still has it as their min requirement. This post follows a great process, and it certainly makes debugging less more painful as it is described.
- zeebo, on 05/16/2009, -1/+8I've had pretty good luck with firebug lite.
http://getfirebug.com/lite.html - DivisibleByZero, on 05/16/2009, -0/+7Since you seem to be offering, please contact me when your article on "how to get your idiot users to stop using IE6" is completed. I don't support IE because I want to. I support it because I have to.
- damonic, on 05/16/2009, -1/+8Ummm, IE8 is out. It is in Windows Update. Go get it. Now. Better yet, get Firefox, Chrome, or Safari instead.
If you use IE6 on a site I created you will get a friendly jQuery pop-up educating you about your browser options. - cani, on 05/16/2009, -5/+11Who cares about IE6 anyways
- gamepr0, on 05/16/2009, -0/+5Sounds like you're biased to me.
- dlllb, on 05/16/2009, -1/+6The demo just worked on Firefox for me so its not exactly cross browser compatible. Conditional tags needed.
- dsmx, on 05/16/2009, -0/+5safari is easily hacked
- jaygeeze, on 05/15/2009, -0/+5What sucks about supporting IE6 is that you have to gimp your web designs to avoid things that you know won't work on IE6. Progressive Enhancement can only go so far, and at the end of the day, developing multiple versions of your site, then serving different stylesheets/JS files using conditional comment hacks, is not feasible in terms of time and resources for most web development firms and in-house developers.
By the way, don't click on cyrusuncc's link above unless you're prepared to close your browser to avoid clicking on the alert dialog box a million times. - rnawky, on 05/15/2009, -9/+14wtf? Debugging techniques on a 2 version old web browser that doesn't follow web standards when you could just use Firebug instead??
What's next? How to make Windows 2000 run better? - Stiffler, on 05/16/2009, -4/+8Users who disable Javascript and then complain that a site isn't displaying correctly make me laugh.
- cx0der, on 05/16/2009, -1/+4Who gives a ***** about IE?
- tgc1, on 05/16/2009, -1/+4Stay tuned for tomorrows article. Running Windows Me.
- TWallaceWD, on 05/16/2009, -0/+3Web developers.
- jamend, on 05/16/2009, -2/+5Did anyone bother to read the article? It's a guide on how to use Visual Studio 2005 (.NET/2008/Express Editions can do it too) to debug Javascript live in IE6 (works in 7 and 8 as well). Yeah, Firebug does it for Firefox, but in the real world, things still have to work in IE.
- TWallaceWD, on 05/16/2009, -0/+3If the demo didn't work in Firefox, you'd have to load up IE to view the demo. Not something I'd go out of my way to do.
- paloooz, on 05/16/2009, -2/+5IE7 is a nightmare too. IE8 is getting there.
- NeoTechni, on 05/16/2009, -0/+3You know, the dominant web browser.
If not, then you shouldn't be making web sites - StigNordas, on 05/15/2009, -1/+3Was that really necessary?
- LowRentDiggs, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2The problem is a lot of people still ignorantly and blissfully use IE6. I only open any version of IE when I have to debug it.
- MtheoryX, on 05/17/2009, -0/+2No, it doesn't have to be supported.
People like you who keep supporting it are the problem. So long as an IE6 user can visit every site, and they all look and work perfectly (despite the huge waste of time, money, and effort required from the developer to make that happen), then why the ***** would they ever think about upgrading?
Give them a reason to upgrade. Save time and money. Make your life easier. Make their web experience better in the future. I see no one losing here. - gm33, on 05/16/2009, -2/+4umm...checking the web logs for my site (a very large commerical site), 40% of visits last month came from the IE6 browser. I wouldn't call that "minimum market share"
- rossisdead, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2Ironically that site looks like it was made to render in Internet Explorer 3
- Ogremindes, on 05/16/2009, -1/+3Web developers aren't going to stop supporting IE6 while it still has significant market share; A significant part of the market aren't going to upgrade while IE6 still works with the sites they use.
- samuelcotterall, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2Web developers do.
Whilst IE6’s market share is decreasing, there are still enough people using it for the client to pull you up if anything looks out of place in it—particularly when the client’s machine is part of a corporate network, and the administrator is too lazy to upgrade from IE6. - Big1984Brother, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2RAmen, my brother. I long for the day when I can design a site that uses "Position: fixed;" or reference <THEAD> in CSS without IE6 foiling my plans.
- svivian, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2I guarantee you it's only corporate networks left running IE6. If you have a web site check users of IE6. For me IE6 visitor numbers drop sharply at weekends, while all the other browsers are fairly level.
- TWallaceWD, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2IE6's javascript problems are nothing compared to its CSS problems. In fact I rarely worry about how IE will handle JS. I fully expect it choke on seemingly simple CSS, though.
- DivisibleByZero, on 05/16/2009, -1/+3<!--[if IE gte 1]>
location.href = "http://www.getfirefox.com%22;
<![endif]--> - DivisibleByZero, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2Yeah, it's one of those situations where nobody wants to take the first step. As a developer, I make sure my stuff works good in Firefox, then worry about other browsers as an afterthought. If it were up to me, no explicit IE support at all. But the customers want it, so the customers get it.
- DivisibleByZero, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2That statement should apply to all versions of IE, not just 6. IE8's "standards mode" doesn't follow the standards. And "compatibility mode" isn't really compatible with IE7. IE8 is basically 2 browsers, both of which are crap.
- mrBitch, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2Nice.
"... IE6 is like an illness that just won’t go away, but we have the medicine.
IE6 Update looks like IE’s Information Bar, but instead of offering your visitors an ActiveX plugin, it offers a browser update."
http://ie6update.com/ - jggube, on 05/15/2009, -1/+3"Probably not."
No, definitely not. - mrBitch, on 05/16/2009, -0/+2Agree, also RE: " ... Question: How much time has Internet Explorer cost developers worldwide for the extra work required to make IE resemble a standards supporting browser?
Answer: Too much. "
This is something that IBM, SUN, Oracle, etc.. have already worked out costs them for all other kinds of software development.
It costs money to continue to develop software that forces you to stay within a locked in set of proprietary "standards".
This is why you may have recently seen all of those articles about many large commercial developers adopting open source, since open source also heavily uses open data interchange protocols and standards. - MtheoryX, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1I did that on the last site I made for a client.
I got a support call from someone that works for Clarian Hospital saying they stopped dead in their tracks because they thought they couldn't use the page because they're on IE6.
They contacted their sysadmin who, of course, said they cannot upgrade past IE6.
The wording of that should be changed. It shouldn't say you HAVE to get IE6 for the site to work. It should say that you need it for many features to work.
That way, it won't stop idiots dead in their tracks who can't do ***** about upgrading, and it also covers your ass in case something you make doesn't work right on their machine.
Other than that, I'm putting that on every site I make from now on, and going back to a few previous ones to add it in.
And the only IE6 users I get are either in India or on corporate machines. I could care less about the folks in India for most of these applications (US-only audience and all), no offense, and the corporate users can just wait till they get home for all I care. - MtheoryX, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1No. I'm not going to develop duplicate anything just for IE6.
- LowRentDiggs, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1I don't have time to educate a few hundred million people
- zeabu, on 05/17/2009, -0/+1with lower quality i meant: text-only, or just a background image. Let them feel they're using a browser the Greeks and the Persians were using.
- LightSpeed4, on 05/16/2009, -0/+1Other web sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is used by at least 80% of the users
W3Schools is a website for people with an interest for web technologies. These people are more interested in using alternative browsers than the average user. The average user tends to use Internet Explorer, since it comes preinstalled with Windows. Most do not seek out other browsers.
These facts indicate that the browser figures above are not 100% realistic. Other web sites have statistics showing that Internet Explorer is used by at least 80% of the users - mrBitch, on 05/16/2009, -0/+1@ LightSpeed4, W3Schools did also note that they are also monitoring other sources for their web browser usage stats :
" The statistics above are extracted from W3Schools' log-files, but we are also monitoring other sources around the Internet to assure the quality of these figures. " - shinkou, on 05/16/2009, -0/+1Ooo... that's what I did 3 or 4 years ago! To be fair, the debugger is very useful dealing with javascripts. We don't have to put a whole bunch of "alert"s to peek into your variables. But that's it! That was the best I could do with IE6. CSS and DOM remain as the real pain in the arse however. I would have dugg this article 4 years ago. Forget the old craps and get going, folks!
- zeabu, on 05/16/2009, -0/+1Try talking to that client. Mention security issues. Don't have an anti-MS attitude, just explain that supporting IE 7 (and not IE6) is safer for HIS company. Sometimes they listen.
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