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175 Comments
- bugmenot3, on 10/12/2007, -6/+37"Lovely, free market, open minded thinking... BUT:
How can a nation implement what he's talking about while simultaneously brain-washing kids to not kill, to be ethical, to operate efficiently in teams, to follow social, political and economic global cultures. We all know that if we don't do it, we'll have anarchy. But how to implement it in such a free and open system?"
I learned to behave ethically at home, not at school. I knew before I went to kindergarten that it isn't ok to express yourself with violence, that it wasn't ok to steal, and to respect other peoples space. These things were reinforced in kindergarten surely and I hung a post of "Everything I need to know I learned in Kindergarten" on my bedroom wall while I was in High School because it made so much sense. Surely not everyone has the same experience as I did, but those values are learned early on so to say that you need years of education to learn them seems inherently false.
School certainly didn't teach me to operate efficiently in teams. If junior high, high school, and university taught me anything it was that in a group the majority of people will do nothing and leave the work for the few that actually care or are interested. If anything this was only reinforced the longer I went through traditional education. From my time in corporate America I can see that a large number of other people learned this lesson as well.
School also doesn't teach children to follow "social, political and economic global cultures." There are too many people that can't even find other countries on a map to be able to, or interested in, following other cultures. The only culture most kids are interested in has to do with what's on MTV, and what the new style trends are so they can fit into the cliques at school.
"On another note, I've often felt that the reason that education has degraded to its current state is because the teachers and managers of the system were those who actually enjoyed operating in it, and therefore, it naturally regressed into a sadistic system of control. I'm glad there's at least one teacher out there, but it seems like the only way of destroying the system is to pour money into it, making it attractive to people who actually have brains."
Many of the administrators in the system certainly like the way the system operates and are a large part of the problem with public education. Part of the reason people don't like to support education financially is due to waste of that money by the administration. This has been the case for at least the last 60 years. Those administrators that don't like the system and work to change don't typically last long. They either give up and go do something else or they are forced out.
As far as teachers go there are quite a few problems. The first is teachers unions. While there was certainly a time and place for unions they have outlived their usefulness in this case. Teachers unions are a large part of the reason that bad teachers keep their jobs. Another problem is that a large number of people who go into teaching that are good teachers and truly want to be there end up leaving either from getting burnt out, for better money, or other reasons. Those that are truly dedicated to teaching, enjoy teaching, and want to truly educated children are few and far between.
The system is broken however. The standards that teachers are required to teach are often poorly constructed by non educators. Laws that are created that put requirements on teachers fall into the same category. That is the trend with laws regulating most industries however and really education of our children is industry, especially with the massive increase of standardized tests. Administrations waste money to keep their budgets, teachers are being trained to "teach to the test," schools that need additional funds to improve are instead denied it due to a lack of "improvement" in test scores. Teachers are not compensated for the amount of education they are required to have, and to continue to receive, nor for the responsibility they are given. The best and the brightest go on to do things that are more rewarding than "the good feeling I get from teaching."
Finally, a large problem with our public education system is the parents. That's right I said it, the parents are part of the problem. You would not believe the number of parents that treat their children's teachers like dirt, talk to them like they are stupid, etc. There seems to be this overwhelming belief in our country that the problems with education is only the teachers and as such parents assume that the teachers are idiots. Sure, some teachers are idiots, but that's true in any industry. It is unfortunate but nothing will eliminate them all. If more parents were actively involved in their children's education I think you would see dramatic improvements in grades (since that's what most people care about) and in the overall quality of education. The number of students that fail simply because their parents don't pay attention is staggering. Instead of letting little billy plop down in front of the TV or the ps2 make him sit down and do his homework first. When teachers send home information or have Internet bulletins take the time to read them. You would not believe the number of parents that don't bother to do these simple things. Then they treat the teacher like crap when the children don't do well, or miss out on things.
I've ranted long enough so I'll just wind this up by pointing out that I am probably biased. My wife is an elementary school teacher. My father taught various grades K-8 for 20 years. My grandmother taught 3rd/4th grade for 30 years. My grandfather taught at various levels from k-12, was a principle for a dozen years and then taught law at several universities. I'm surely biased by being exposed to the school system from all angles for my entire life. I am also biased by my own experience in the public education system. In the 13 years that I went to public schools I really only remember 4 of them as being enjoyable experiences. Those would be kindergarten, fourth and fifth grade (same teacher both years), and my junior year of high school. The reason these years were memorable was because those teachers broke away from the norm and actually taught interesting material in interesting ways. Those teachers took note of the students that had advanced beyond the rest of the class and went to extraordinary lengths to make sure they didn't get lost in boredom. The rest of my time in the public education system was routine. Every day, every subject, every teacher, they may has well all have been the same. - antron, on 10/12/2007, -6/+36Is our children learning?
- OBKenobi, on 10/12/2007, -7/+37@phpirate
You're shining example of public education in America. - kenz0r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24I whole-heartedly agree, I took an AP European History class in my high school and our professor adresses us as mature, open-minded, individuals. However, when I am in a non-AP/Honors course, the teacher talks to/treats us as juvenile robots of society who will never amount to anything in life. The biggest flaw in the system of public education is the fact that nearly all pupils are treated as juvenile delinquents. At my school we have security that has a no-questionsasked policy so when you get in trouble for a illigitemate reason they wont listen to your explaination they jsut take you by the arms and say "TELL IT TO THE PRINCIPAL". Moreover, the second biggest flaw is teachers picking favorites. An example are my Advanced Chemistry and Advanced English teachers, who give me worse grades than I deserve(this isnt me being in love with myself, other teachers of the same course have even told me so) and treat me like im a moron and give me really "i cant believe you didnt know that" answers. There are many flaws in public education system, but theres not much we can do unless we're polititians or, wait there is no other position that can enforce change. Oh well.
Another MAJOR problem(in my district at least) is teachers not getting raises for 2 years. And how district workers get raises always when teachers do the real job by HAVING TO DEAL WITH MISBEHAVED STUDENTS and teach the same thing all day. Teachers are way underrated in the public education system and that is another sad thing. - megaloid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20"How can a nation implement what he's talking about while simultaneously brain-washing kids to not kill, to be ethical, to operate efficiently in teams, to follow social, political and economic global cultures. We all know that if we don't do it, we'll have anarchy. But how to implement it in such a free and open system?"
Surround them with intelligent, emotionally mature adults. Teach them to have a conscience. Schools and families are currently failing at this because the "grown-ups" are developmental cripples. - MisterCookie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21How about they stop nerfing education by constantly lowering standards? In California, you can fail at least 5 times on some of the high school exit exams and still get a diploma.
- Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -5/+24This is one of the best essays I have ever read about why education doesn't work. I wish I could Digg this 10 times.
- theone3, on 10/12/2007, -8/+26"Let them manage themselves"
Lovely, free market, open mininded thinking... BUT:
How can a nation implement what he's talking about while simultaneously brain-washing kids to not kill, to be ethical, to operate efficiently in teams, to follow social, political and economic global cultures. We all know that if we don't do it, we'll have anarchy. But how to implement it in such a free and open system?
I don't have the answer to that.
On another note, I've often felt that the reason that education has degraded to its current state is because the teachers and managers of the system were those who actually enjoyed operating in it, and therefore, it naturally regressed into a sadistic system of control. I'm glad there's at least one teacher out there, but it seems like the only way of destroying the system is to pour money into it, making it attractive to people who actually have brains. - robbyjo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18Though I agree with the sentiment voiced by the author, I have several objections:
1) It all boils down to whether having a standard or not. It happens in many other cases. Having a standard implies homogeneity, which to some degree is good because it implies we know what to expect from a certain student. Without a standard, the problem is at least twofold: a) How can you evaluate whether a children is doing enough or not, b) It is very difficult to measure the performance of the educator.
2) There is a specific set of knowledge that the society consider as "basic". For example: Basic reading / writing and arithmetic, which is essentially what is being taught in grade schools. If there are students who don't know how to read / write, then schools and parents are to blame. How can you teach the basic while the children loathes basic knowledge?
3) In relation to point 2, we ought to know the basics first before we "leap" into a more advanced knowledge. However, the author says: "Urge them to take on the serious material, the grown-up material, in history, literature, philosophy, music, art, economics, theology - all the stuff schoolteachers know well enough to avoid." So, okay... Suppose that a kid is interested in time machine (after reading about it and what not). Now what should he do? If he doesn't understand even simple arithmetic, how could he do the integrals and differentials involved in the physics? If he doesn't even know the difference between "it's" and "its", how can he write a good paper? If a teacher is required to do the thing that the author urges, the teacher would be required to go back back and forth between the "advanced subject" and the "basics". It would easily consumes the teacher's energy. Moreover, the teacher may not share the same interest with her students, so she may not have the knowledge for the kid. If she's forced to learn as well, it would severely limits the number of kids to handle. More likely she can't handle more than one kid.
4) Moreover, we don't want to create a dabbler! We want to create a true scientist or true businessman or historian or whatever. We don't need those who only know the skins of the science / technology. We do need those who can go deep inside with sufficient breadth of other subjects. The problem is that when a kid faces a difficulty, they usually balk out and try another subject. Can you hear so many students rather not study math because it's hard? If they eventually catch on a particular interest, then that's good. If not, the kid would be pretty much a dabbler. If the kid does not develop a particular interest for years, what would you do?
5) It's hard to "challenge a kid to be in solitude". It varies highly on the kid's personality. If the kid is very outgoing and social, he's probably more suitable for, say, marketing or management rather than physics. Can you force an extrovert to be "in solitude" and "conduct inner dialogs"? Highly unlikely.
6) I believe that a standard is made to be surpassed, not dogmatically followed (like the case it is now). - cybe, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19publik skool sistum [read: government brainwashing/indoctrination centers]
Check out a book called "the deliberate dumbing down of america"
"...the deliberate dumbing down of america is a chronological history of the past 100+ years of education reform. Each chapter takes a period of history and recounts the significant events, including important geopolitical and societal contextual information. Citations from government plans, policy documents, and key writings by leading reformers record the rise of the modern education reform movement. Americans of all ages will welcome this riveting expose of what really happened to what was once the finest education system in the world...." - blake_ivey, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Anarchy doesn't mean chaos by the way. I can tell you what I think it means, but then you may think I'm wrong, so this is what Wikipedia says:
"The word "anarchy", as most anarchists use it, does not imply chaos, nihilism, or anomie, but rather a harmonious anti-authoritarian society that is based on voluntary association of free individuals in autonomous communities, mutual aid, and self-governance."
I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, but maybe that will help others see what anarchy truly means. - sinembarg0, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18The problems that I have with school is that it is way too easy. Only a few of my teachers are good, most aren't. We need to have a better variety of classes too, so the smarter people can thrive and the dumb people don't get left behind. I hate this no child left behind *****. What happened to natural selection? Why must we study to see why many people are mentally challenged instead of realizing that it could be from the fact that we do our best to keep everyone alive and well.
I sleep in class because its soo boring. I had one teacher who made fun of me all the time (it was ok, it was funny, and he would've stopped had I asked him to) because I slept so much. The sad part is, I still was one of the 5 smartest people in that class. Doesn't sound like much, but that was an abnormally smart class. There was a girl in there who took detailed notes on everything, typed them at home, even had a voice recorder. She truly tried her hardest and still got C's. My english teacher used improper english, anyways it not gramatically correct, even though its in the dictionary. Any covers singular words, where as many covers plural, so it is either many ways or anyway, but not anyways, such as anybodies is blatantly incorrect.
Another problem is finaces. I live in one of the richest counties in the state, but the school district gets barely above the minimum finances per student, and is one of the lowest in the state. This whole "Proposal A" is what screwed us over. Our district was good at conserving money, and didn't use all of their budget each year, so the state decided that since we were good at saving money and cutting costs, we should get less money, so basically the districts that waste money get more to waste. I love how ***** up our american society is. All this politician anti-videogames *****, the Ass.'s of America (**AA), and how everything in general is not as it should be. I want to become a politician just to fix what others have ***** up before me. - jerbaker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13> I want to become a politician just to fix what others have ***** up before me.
And that, sir, is why the system is rigged so that only those willing to bend over for their campaign contributors will survive. We will never have a system with honest politicians until we have a system where they are free from having to raise their own campaign money. It's not a coincidence that the people with the money have devised a system whereby they can vote twice in effect, once with their campaign contributions to control the candidate pool, and second with their votes. Think about it. Support public finance of campaigns. Support making equal time requirements part of television and radio licensure. Until then, you deserve the government you get. - tuna1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I think the point MisterCookie is making is how can we advance these kids into the AP material/ college material if they can't pass that very, very basic high school exit exam? So if they can't pass the exit exam, then a 'good job' isn't in their cards until they do.
In California, these standards are lowered because a lot of the people who just aren't passing at all are people who don't speak English very well. Yes I'm going to say it, they are usually illegal immigrants or children of illegal immigrants. - NSResponder, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16It doesn't have to be that way. Google for "Sudbury schools".
-jcr - Edogz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13hehe, Interesting.
Even more interesting is my history teacher made us read this article and write notes on it. I found the article quit attention grabbing, it has some very nice points.
=) - Soniti, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17Screw AP. All of that over-achieving-sweat-your-grades-cut-your-wrists-if-you-get-a-b crap only gets you the same thing as everyone else: A nice office cubicle in an air conditioned building, where the managment pretends to care about the "individual worker", and you waste the best years of your life. I wish I could say that it was only the Educational System that is messed up.
~Soniti - MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I've gone entire _weeks_ in high school where intelligent thought was not a requirement. Too many classes put too much emphasis on effort and participation, rather than actually knowing anything. I've had classes where if you did the homework (not get the homework right. They don't care about that. If you just 'attempt' it...) and raised your hand every now and then, you could manage to get Fs on every test and still get an A. That, I think, is a problem. In the end, they learn nothing.
Well, the real world and college don't work that like. - Poland, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Good article.
I don't see a real way around it though, the people in charge will never change something that works so well for them. The current system gives them exactly what they want, why would they ever change it? - tuna1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10@Tiak
I agree. My graduating class was the first to start taking the Calif. Exit Exam, that test was extremely easy. You need to get 50% (I think it may be less than that) correct, you can retake it a bunch of times each year, and it's the same exact test each time. - digitalunltd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9One of the basic things the article says is to treat young adults like young adults. What is so hard about that? Respect is a two way street.
- TehOompa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I'm a high school student and I enjoy AP classes. There are some, usually pressured by parents, that freak when they get a B, but that's not everyone in the classes.
- dattaway, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12This article states well what I have wanted to say about my education.
I'm 38 and still have nightmares of school. Not having my homework done, failing a test, and forgetting where everything is. All I wanted back then was to work and be useful. Nothing was boring than sitting in the same classes every day and suffering from either hunger because breakfast wore off or drowsiness from lunch. My body couldn't take sitting hours at a time at a rigid desk. It was hard to digest information slowly and daydreaming caused me to miss what I needed to know.
My learning was the dreaming of what it would be like when it was over. 12 years was a lifetime. Getting an engineering degree in electronics was a little more exciting but still was an exercise in torture and binge drinking.
I'd rather be in prison than go back to school again, because I hear prisoners can work and do something useful even without their freedom. Even though I feel that way, not having schools to raise us frightens me more. Growing up has a high suck factor that is difficult to avoid. - dementedcrabs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10You could always do homeschool, or internet school... 1-on-1 instead of 1-on-30 teaching, can pace yourself, in the case of internet school you can call the teachers almost everyday when ever. Also worth noting that homeschoolers scored about 35% higher grades all across the board then public schooled kids. Most school kids in school now don't even listen to the teachers, or are to busy with sex, drinking and pranks... Guess that is the future of America...
- awgneo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Is there anything wrong with over-achieving? Over-achieving is simply achieving to a level that works for you. Those that under-achieve are those that use the word “over-achieving” to describe the better achieving ability of others. It’s all relative, you see?
I also can’t see how I can say anything bad about AP exams, considering how they got me into college. - Tiak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Oh, shouldn't they?... People should never get a diploma if they fail the exit exam to start off? That makes no sense, they have to pass it eventually now. But saying that because someone didn't know something in the past doesn't mean they won't learn it in the future.... Changing that would be like saying that 50% that drop out of college could never get a degree ever. Though that whole thing about getting a diploma when they never passed it is pretty bad BS. I remember seeing the students on the news who were complaining about having a 3.8 GPA and not being allowed to graduate and laughing histerically... (A trained monkey could pass that test... And if students had a 3.8 that couldn't it meant that that school's standard had indeed failed them.)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Step 1 is to abolish teachers unions. We simply cannot have a system where the classroom instructor is locked into their position to the point where they can teach absolute nonesense and still recive a stedy paycheck.
Step 2 is to abolish the department of education. We are a nation of what can be considered 50 small nations. People in Alaska do not need the same standards as the people in Florida or Califorina, so why do we have a centralized department that requires the same standards for all of them?
Step 3: Parents have to become more involed. Its not enough to just assume that your kids are getting an education, and looking at grades on a report card does not have the same meaning as it did 20 years ago. Parents have to start meeting with teachers, going over their child's homework, and expanding their kids mind through outside activities such as musuems, libraries, and other places that are'nt located in front of a television screen. - thepharmacist, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11I've come to notice that regarding science in general, there are two types of people: those who know science in its depths and those who don't. Unfortunately, the people who don't know it (business class, artists, politicians, etc...) are taught somewhere along the way (what you call political indoctrination) that an "semantic" argument is just as good as a "scientific" argument. These people, and I focus on politicians, then get to make laws regarding education. The result is that they give science and "the rest" (religion, pseudo-science and made-up rhetorics) the same value in schools. Then you get people believing that they can argue with science through rhetorics, and that if their own "I don't get it, it doesn't make sense to me, so it mustn't be true" argument is just as valid as someone's Ph.D thesis.
In this light, why would anyone care about science, about the facts, when you can discredit it all by saying "it doesn't make sense to me" ? Today's kids, will, in the future, in their adulthood, be very easy to manipulate through political speech, because they won't care about reality and facts, they will care about what is presented in a shining light to them. And anybody which has background in science knows that there are LOTS of facts that aren't immediately evident and that must be researched, and sometimes that your own observations can discredit everything you've done.
This is why I fear, like you, political indoctrination, because these kids will always think that they're right and that they'll never listen to reason, because the schools taught them that "if they can argue it rhetorically, it's just as good as arguing it with facts". - spartan777, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9i think there's too much political indoctrination. this article is true, but only to an extent. once a child gets older, and (hopefully) grows out of the 'schools just boring' stage, one can't blame it on this. political indoctrination is a serious problem, its what is hurting the kids, and our future scientists. there's so much pc bs its unbelievable.
- fatdog789, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12All this ***** about public schooling failing our school children is just that: *****.
The vast majority of students don't learn because *they don't want to learn*. You could give them the best teachers on Earth, and they still wouldn't put the effort into learning.
If parents would spend more time helping/being involved with their kids' schoolwork instead of bitching about the quality of the schools, the quality of the schools would miracurously go up. That's the major reason suburban schools perform better than urban schools within the same district; the teachers aren't any better and the budgets are the same. The big difference? The kids are motivated at home.
And no whining from parents about not having enough time. If you don't have enough time to spend with your kids, cut back on the booze and the tv. - megaloid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Read "The Underground History of American Education," by the celebrated schoolteacher John Taylor Gatto, which chronicles the the decline of education in the United States. If you don't want to buy the book and your library doesn't have it, you can read it online for free at his website, www.johntaylorgatto.com.
- jguy584, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14Our education system is not about learning at all, well maybe 10% of it or so.
But anyway, what its really about is turning kids into workforce robots. Your aren't graded on how smart you are (it is well known that good grades have no correlation with intelligence), but on how well you are at pushing things that intrest you/things you want to do out of the way so you can do school work. The ones with straight A's, like my younger sister, are the ones who are willing to give up as much of their personal time as needed to do what they hate doing (work). My sister spends about 4 hrs a day doing school work, i spend about 0. She gets A's and i get D's. But I definlty am happy that im not like her, as my intelligence far exceeds hers (and no im not just being cocky)
Is this also not the ideal employee? One who will put the company and their job before everything else? The ones with the best school grades are the ones who will work while they are on personal vacation, who will come into the office at 2am for that emergency meeting, who wont make sure they use up all their sick days etc. Jobs don't hire people because they got straight A's in math, English, science etc (however getting good grades in your college major class's is a diff story, that's the first time that YOU ever picked what you want to learn).
We need a system that grades intelligence, not your work ethic
That's just my opinion - rzebram, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Having taken AP classes (4 of the this year, as a junior), I can tell you that not everybody is that obsessed with grades. Personally, I took AP classes so I wouldn't be quite as bored at school. It didn't work, but at least it was moderately more interesting/challenging than sitting through dumbed-down "honors" courses at my school. In the 6th grade I lost all faith in the value of grades, because they were merely a measure of my ability to spit things back at the teacher on the appropriate answer blanks. Nowadays, it seems to be the same old cookie-cutter assignments over and over again, with teachers who don't care about challenging you.
For a personal example of the previous, I took an "honors physics" course this year, the entire purpose of which seemed to be to test your ability to plug variables into equations with little understanding of why or what the practical application was. With little to no stimulus, I became apathetic about the class as a whole, seeing it as a total waste of my time (good chance to sleep, though), and the teacher just began to ignore me not paying attention at all. Not once was I offered a more challenging course of study, and finishing assignments within minutes of being handed them was little indication. Granted, the teacher wasn't very well endowed in the intelligence arena, but I still thought she might at least take a little interest in my boredom to perhaps bring in something worth my time. Without this chance, I tried learning other things on my own for awhile (turned into a good time to study for my CCNA), but quickly ceased that activity in exchange for a good hour and a half of sleep. - dtfinch, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Most of my years in public school really sucked. I get depressed whenever I think back to it. The slow pace and heavy workload was bad enough. I was bullied every day, beat up almost every week, and the teachers, principal, and other school staff wouldn't lift a finger in my defense, at any of the 8 schools I attended in those 12 years. I've never picked a fight in my life, but I've even gotten detention for many of the times I've been attacked, and watched my attackers lie their way out of it. I haven't once in my life seen a bully disciplined. I'm only thankful that I wasn't snagged by any of the braindead zero-tolerance policies that were all the fad back then, and are still practiced around the country.
I love to learn. I have a several math trophies and I've been programming since I was 9. But school is not great for learning. It's a miserable place to spend 8 hours a day. Then there's tons and tons of redundant homework afterwards. And it takes years to learn at school what you could teach yourself in weeks.
College was great from an emotional standpoint, but still very slow pace. It's more like a long, expensive ritual to get a piece of paper called a degree. - phreakout, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7At my old state secondary (12 years to 16/18) just about every lesson was an academic subject yet only a small percentage wanted to onto university. The majority went into various trades but there were no lessons geared to real world skills - a few weeks of often very valuable work experience in one job is all. Shop was seen as remedial.
Discussion and Dissent were frowned apon I recieved my first detention when the teacher claimed "coke a COla" was invented as a coin cleaner (and thus would rot your teeth). I excitedly put up my hand to reveal that it was actually a stimulant drink based on Cocaine before t was illegal. Detention for Cheeking a teacher. Teachers wielded toilet permission like a weapon and openly longed for the days when they could thrash us till we were squealing like pigs - the belt and cane having been recently discontinued.
Ahh the lovely joys of childhood - wtf - school was pointless hell. - Tiak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7On the contrary, it gets you your cubicle ever-so-slightly faster. I'd hate to get in on the deal after all the 30 foot from a window spots were taken.
- awgneo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Yes, but what kind of job does that get you? AP exams are the essential marks these days. They bring college-level material to all.
- rekrapt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8We homeschool our kids using the Calvert system...
http://www.calvertschool.org - valour, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6You know what's weird, though? There are virtually no factories in America anymore to work in. They're all in China, Mexico, and other countries where near-slave labor can easily be had. Why are we still being trained to be factory workers when there are no more factories for us to work in?
- inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Mod me down for the attitude and the swearing and ranting if you want, but honestly, there's a valid point here...
I am so ***** fed up with lazy, finger-pointing ***** blaming the public school system for their own failings. I see lazy, uninvolved parents as the real source of the education problem in the U.S. I constantly hear people bitching and moaning about public schools, but they are what they are, for better or worse and you, as a parent like me, have to get your ass in there and be involved and help your child get something out of it. There's no magical school or education techniques that will change that fact. Parents have to be a part of it and too many lazy ***** who should never have procreated view school as nothing more than free daycare and convenient scapegoat. I've seen it with my own eyes. The teachers and the administrators of public schools take such a beating from public opinion and most of them are good people, well-educated, kind-hearted and trying their best. Parents who expect someone else to deal with educating their kids are the root cause of the problems we keep attributing to public schools.
And don't even get me started on people attacking public schools for religious or political reasons in attempt to weaken the education system for their own gain. That is a whole other issue and those doing it ought to be deeply ashamed of themselves for it.
I have a smart-ass little saying I throw out occasionally: "I home school my children. *And* I send them to public school." I've seen parents look at me like that doesn't make sense. - siekosunfire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@awgneo
If you want real marks, go and learn on your own; read plenty of books, learn to program, experiment, build, and most importantly: think. Pick up a book on C or C++ from Amazon.com, teach yourself programming and find what aspects interest you. If you think threads are cool, pick up a good book on threads and start learning how to write efficient programs. If physics, chemistry, electrical engineering, medicine or anything else interests you, grab books on those, teach yourself what you desire and you'll be well ahead of the game once your full-time college years hit.
The only person stopping you from learning what you will is yourself. - thepharmacist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Oh man these zero-tolerance policies are extremely poor. We had one of those in elementary school. If you were caught in a fight, everyone involved got sanctions. Even if it was someone bullying you and you didn't do anything. Defending yourself if you got attacked also got you sanctions. The excuse the teachers gave was: if you get attacked, just tell a teacher, don't hit back. That's REALLY EASY to do with someone pinning you to the ground and hitting you in the face ! Anyway my parents pretty much threatened to sue the school and they lifted the sanctions... oh, well, "good times".
- chevy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Yep I went to school back in the early days if pc bs (the 80s), from what I can tell by talking to people who went to school more recently it has got astonishingly worse.
Almost every single teacher I liked or respected was at least somewhat in the "trouble-maker" category, I can't imagine that many of them kept their jobs in the current political climate. - dtfinch, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@awgneo
It hasn't gotten any better as far as I can tell, but I finished high school 6 years ago. School was terrible for me, and it's gotten worse if there's any truth to the news. Maybe some places have better schools than others, or maybe some kids aren't targets for bullying as much as others. It still hurts me to think about it. - ThndrShk2k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Chompy
And there in lies the problem with the workforce and educated community. In order to get into college, you have to take the standardized testing and also have good grade records throughout high-school, in which the education system of the first 12 years of your education is based upon the creating of a more uniform society. Thus trapping someone who was taught in school in the endless circle. If one does do well in school, and retains their "independence" and gets good grades, to go onto college, and gets good grades there, they only want to listen to people like them, which is the highly schooled type whom are also educated in many subjects and a lot in specific subjects.
And of course, the extension of childhood itself will make people be bored more, thus, want to do other things than schooling, and such trapping the majority in that sort of rut, while a larger minority that catches on in schooling goes onto college to become school in advanced subject, becoming the bosses and leaders of the majority in the business world.
And the rich can afford higher schooling, and the best schooling. The best secondary education teaches the students to be the leaders of society, business, science, and politics. If taught by rich parents and rich school systems, the rich will be trained to be better than the other financial classes.
All in all, a trap within a trap within a trap. There is no way to escape it without entire reform, and that cannot happen with the majority being massive and the leading minority so powerful.
But hell, there is that minute chance that one of us will rise to some power through opportunity, and lead a successful life, happens all the time. But those opportunities only show because the system is the way it is. So there may be cause to change it personally, but not really needed to change globally.
Face it, the world would suck if it was vastly different than the system is now... Unless there is a new better system, in which will not be due to the nature of people. - sseveran, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Starting with more complex topics and then working backwards absolutely does work. I struggled with math in high school. However when I started making computer games and 3D engines I had to learn a termendous amount of math in a short time. I was highly motiviated and I did. And I did it on my own.
No one is responsible for your education except you and your parents. I was homeschooled and am so thankful for it. It has given me every advantage over my peers. While they were sitting bored in class I had a job that was laying the foundations of my career. Now I am in a company wear I am the youngest partner by 15 years. And to those who say that homeschooled people lack social skills that is a choice that kids and parents make. I certainly do no lack them.
I agree with the author in principal although he paints a bleaker view of the situation then I otherwise would.
Steve - thepharmacist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Sorry, but your post is a mess. It's so badly formulated that I don't understand anything.
- nickm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5me fink
- MrWashy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4No offense, but if you're a teacher please write like it. That whole post is atrocious. If this is what you're willing to accept from yourself, then I hate to see what you're willing to accept from your students. Yes, how you present yourself reflects on all of us. George Washington knew it, that's why when he was lead a Continental Army made up of volunteers who dressed had no uniforms, no discipline and no training, he felt it important to only ever be seen by his troops in full uniform, disciplined and effective. The men took pride in themselves because he took pride in himself. The Army may have been a rag-tag rabble, but the British knew, absolutely, who was in charge.
You're a teacher, act like one. -
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