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Handcoding vs WYSIWYG

9rules.com — Nowadays is easy to get your code written by an editor, but are you learning how things really work??? Interesting read

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  • pcgeek101, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2handcoding is far superior ... so much control and efficiency
  • twistymcgee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My opinion is to learn how to do it by hand, then use the tools that make it easier and faster to develop projects.
  • n8r0n, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I hand coded sites for years. After a while you just get tired of it and the efficiency of a WYSIWYG editor takes over. Don't get me wrong, I use a WYSIWYG editor to make the pages then I go back and clean up the code by hand. There is no WYSIWYG editor that can code very well.
  • jesusphreak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Its all about handcoding.

    BTW, I'm very glad to see Scrivs on the list.
  • Ryland, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Needs more question marks
  • Ryland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've been writing HTML for 11 years and I've never used a WYSIWYG editor that didn't drive me crazy with bloated code, proprietary tags, lack of features, and improper markup. I've used TextPad for years, and it's just a plain old (featureful and powerful) text editor. (I don't work for TextPad, by the way, I just use it and love it - www.textpad.com)
  • ReyBrujo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Children learn to add, substract, multiply and divide by hand, not with calculators.

    This includes any programming language, in fact. A programmer MUST know how to write a program using a simple text editor. You never know when you will have to fix a line of code through Vim+SSH, or in 16mb RAM computers that act like firewall and cannot even run Emacs correctly.

    Anyone using an IDE before understanding what is going at raw file level deserves his program to die horribly.
  • motionblur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Where I work they have it right: I'm called a Web App Programmer and the guy that uses Dreamweaver is a Web Designer. My main tool is HomeSite+. Thank god Adobe/Macromedia are still bundling Homesite+ with Studio 8.

    Does anyone remember when Homesite was the defacto editor (back in 1999-2001)? I knew loads of people that swore by it. It's still superior as far as I'm concerned.
  • craigtheguru, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0When web pages are generated programatically usually they generate and assemble chunks of HTML and/or populate it with values. It is next to impossible to do this through some WYSIWYG editor. Hand coding is definitely the way to go.

    However, if you want giant animated flame gifs and a spinning email graphic Dreamweaver might be for you. Just remind me to stay away from your website.
  • stonebear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0WYSIWYG is fine for a simple home page. But for more complex pages, hand coding is actually more efficient than trying to figure out how to make the WYSIWYG editor jump through hoops. HTML is not that hard to learn, and hand coding is much more effective than relying on automation in the end.

    Don't be intimidated: You don't have to slug it out with nothing better than Notepad, as you might imagine. there are lots of freeware HTML/XHTML/CSS editors out there which are loaded with specialized features to help your web programming.
  • kylerk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The same thing applies to 3d graphics in my opinion. I learned how to create 3d graphics by coding with POV-Ray. It gives you a great idea of what the computer is actually doing and how your images are really being created.
  • veneric, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Arguments for both sides. I use Dreamweaver for some things even though i'm hand-coding in it 90% of the time. For complex table design, nothing beats the drag-drop and easy editing from a good WYSIWYG. Would I let a WYSIWYG design/insert any real application code? Of course not, because it can't.
  • aldimeneira, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Anyone using an IDE before understanding what is going at raw file level deserves his program to die horribly."

    I agree.

    "here are lots of freeware HTML/XHTML/CSS editors out there which are loaded with specialized features to help your web programming."

    like which ones? I'm searching for those.
  • RpgActioN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"but are you learning how things really work???"


    That's hardly the point of WYSIWYG - that's practically the reason it was created, so you don't have to learn....

    What matters is its efficiency.
  • silverbax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0A developer should know how to do it by hand, then use the WYSIWYG. But I've seen coding shops where everyone had to use notepad because it was 'hard core'. And really, being able to hand code means being able to fix anything and write really efficient code.

    BUT -

    Hand coding huge amounts of repetitious code is just slow and unproductive. I save hand coding for the complex or custom stuff. I'm not going to hand code every HTML tag or C# class. People who write all their code by hand will get left behind in speed, but people who can't write any code by hand will suffer by not being able to produce consistent, quality work.
  • BlitzPig_Sal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There are times when handcoding is appropriate and times when WYSIWYG is more efficient, use the best tool for the task at hand.

    However, I don't think that a web designer can be truly skilled unless they know the underlying code extremly well and can hand code as easily as using a WYSIWYG. You have to know when to drop into code to make an edit and when it's safe to do it in Dreamweaver and when it's better to open the file in a text editor. I've seen too much source code with bloat and extra tags that I even call it "Dreamweaver disease".

    Handcoding has it's hardcore supporters, but the reality is that using WYSIWYG editors for some tasks can dramatically increase your work output and it's not wise to always dismiss it as a tool only for less skilled web designers.
  • Shroomie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0In all of my (high school) web design classes, we used 90% WYSIWYG (Dreamweaver) and I hated it. I did what I could by hand, but a good chunk of it was following what the book wanted to us to do so there wasn't much of a choice.
  • motionblur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The same thing applies to 3d graphics in my opinion. I learned how to create 3d graphics by coding with POV-Ray. It gives you a great idea of what the computer is actually doing and how your images are really being created."

    So true. I bet we view it the same way. For me, I can completely visualize the page as I code it. Dreamweaver can throw together some pretty cool websites, but the real heavy backend based sites can't be made with WYSIWYG editors.
  • Slipdisc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0amen

    + digg
  • motionblur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"That's hardly the point of WYSIWYG - that's practically the reason it was created, so you don't have to learn....

    What matters is its efficiency."

    I fixed a Dreamweaver coded site and reduced the page size by 50% and dropped loads of redundant Javascript and replaced it with pure XHTML and CSS menus.

    I guarantee you that with my custom written, standards based, code snippets I'm twice as fast and efficient than any Dreamweaver user.
  • mdarby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Hand coding all the way. There simply is no other way for a professional.
  • motionblur, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Hand coding huge amounts of repetitious code is just slow and unproductive."

    Ever heard of copy & paste and/or template files? I use them all the time to avoid repetition. Any good programmer does.

    I think the real debate here is simple vs. complex. Dreamweaver is great for a mickey mouse website, but let's see Dreamweaver come up with code for database interacting DLLs.
  • waz67, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I like a mix of both... if I'm doing a complex page layout, it's nice to be able to rough it in with a wysiwyg editor and then tweak it/insert code by hand to finish it off.
    Now if I could just get Visual Studio.net to quit trashing my html...
  • stonebear, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"'There are lots of freeware HTML/XHTML/CSS editors out there which are loaded with specialized features to help your web programming.'

    like which ones? I'm searching for those."

    Matrix Y2K Website Studio is a superior freeware hand-coder for Windows users. There is a small nag at start-up, but it's worth it. You can get it at Nonags, Softpedia and Snapfiles.
  • dorn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Blahh blaah! You all are right.
    dugg!
  • penguinboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I have been doing web development for 5 years now - and I absolutely HATE WYSIWYG editors.

    For those of you who thinks it is more efficient - you are wrong. I can hand code XHTML/CSS websites in 1/10 of the time it would take me to click buttons and drag and drop elements onto the screen. Hand coding is precise, WYSIWYG is messy.

    Also, if anyone has tried to debug a complex site so that it works cross browser and cross platform, it has to be done by hand.
  • aldimeneira, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"I like a mix of both... if I'm doing a complex page layout, it's nice to be able to rough it in with a wysiwyg editor and then tweak it/insert code by hand to finish it off.
    Now if I could just get Visual Studio.net to quit trashing my html..."

    You have a valid point there. Try n-vu (Linux, Mac, Windows) or TSW-webcoder (only Windows).

    I've only used hand coding, but will like to have a WYSIWYG editor for quick scraps and experimentations (I learn some html swithcing from WYSIWYG to hand coding).
  • powetgames, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've hand coded every page I've made in the past 5 years... all very basic and very pretty, but at least I know how everything i do works!

    and of course I taught myself everything by reading the source pages of other sites.
  • shango5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0You have to be able to hand code site to be able to truly know whats going on. Like veneric said earlier I use dreamweaver to hand code a majority of a site that I am working on (98%) but I enjoy the ability of dreamweaver to handle some code (ex. tables) with it gets repetitive. I have hand coded enough sites to know when it is time to use a certain tool for the job. I also enjoy dreamweavers auto complete features.
  • RpgActioN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yes, you need hand coding experience to truly understand and appreciate - but it's not necessary.... If the program is good enough, it really isn't. I know the roots of web design, I know the roots of programming, etc, I understand how they all work...but I'm not stuck up about it. I don't hold myself higher over those who can't. If somebody uses an app to make a page and he hasn't written anything in any scripting language before, and it's better than anything I could do with notepad, I wouldn't go all crazy geek nerd rambo on him and whine about how he doesn't understand what he's doing... Really, people. The name of the game is web design, not who knows more about it. A gay guy could spend a month or two with dreamweaver and get his own HGTV-style show and design things better than you ever could....
  • 8^)Jung, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0There is no WYSIWYG editor for HTML that can do what I like to do. I have to do it by hand and I have been doing so since I was ten years old. I do, however, sometimes open up a WYSIWYG editor to create the code for a table just because I can get lazy sometimes.
  • eff_u, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0from my experience, WYSIWYG editors are only useful for developing fast prototypes of what will later be done by hand-coding. they are a design tool, not a designer.
  • compu73rg33k, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0WYSIWYG editors give the ***** code ever. Don't use them. Code by hand. Learn. It's not hard.
  • RpgActioN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"WYSIWYG editors give the ***** code ever."

    Maybe ***** ones do... Try all ends of the field before opening your mouth.
  • TheNik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0HTML/CSS isn't something you shouldn't learn. It's too easy.
  • UberGeekGamer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"'WYSIWYG editors give the ***** code ever.'

    Maybe ***** ones do... Try all ends of the field before opening your mouth."

    compu7 is right, all WYSIWYG put out crappy, full of unwanted code.
    I handcode all my stuff.... well minus big javascripts...
  • canon66, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0My favorite editors

    Windows - Notepad2
    Mac OS X - TextWrangler (or BBEdit if you can afford it, although I haven't used it much)
    Linux - Gedit, Kwrite, Kate, or good 'ol VIM if you're using KDE or Gnome, they probably came with your distro
  • psyonide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Handcoding all the way!
  • Rndm_Tngnt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Use the method that's appropriate for the job at hand.

    Jesus, it sounds like some of you guys would speak out against the printing press.
  • sn0n, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0personally, i have 4 'professional' web design friends who all DW. Not a single one hand codes, and they all come to me for 'fixes', i charge em $30 and tell them to learn some basic CSS, a few weeks later, i'll get another $30.. so ima have to say yes, WYSIWYG don't teach anything, but it does make good money. ;-)
  • cavicster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Now that I make XHTML/CSS layouts, I prefer handcoding. In the past, I used Dreamweaver a lot when my sites were created with nested tables and spacer gifs.

    I am glad to have learned how to make CSS layouts because, for me, it is easier to get to the goal that I have in mind.
  • Marshy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I hand coded sites for years. After a while you just get tired of it and the efficiency of a WYSIWYG editor takes over. Don't get me wrong, I use a WYSIWYG editor to make the pages then I go back and clean up the code by hand. There is no WYSIWYG editor that can code very well.

    nothing worse than a WYSIWYG editor changing the style of the text once you press enter :)
  • Marshy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0A developer should know how to do it by hand, then use the WYSIWYG. But I've seen coding shops where everyone had to use notepad because it was 'hard core'. And really, being able to hand code means being able to fix anything and write really efficient code.
    BUT -
    Hand coding huge amounts of repetitious code is just slow and unproductive. I save hand coding for the complex or custom stuff. I'm not going to hand code every HTML tag or C# class. People who write all their code by hand will get left behind in speed, but people who can't write any code by hand will suffer by not being able to produce consistent, quality work.


    hand coding represet
  • xaph, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Whoever argues that you don't need to know what's happening behind the scenes when using any WYSIWYG program is plain wrong.

    You should have a solid foundation of understanding before doing anything, and this is especially true in web design, or in any other computer-based tasks.

    Tools make design work quicker and more efficient, but when things go wrong, all of that go to naught.
  • somebodyelse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I use XHTML kit to program my pages.
    I used to run a site on motor sport and used Front Page. What a load of crap. I was using Excel to create league tables, and Front Page turned them into a very big chunk of code.
    I learned XHTML, and found a better way to convert those tables into a relatively small page of code.
    I then moved onto Java script which made things even easier.
    One thing goes against my methods though, I will never get to create anything like the design features that go into popular sites. I have neither the time or inclination to do this.
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/agentxxvi/racemaker/
    This was my biggest single page coding creation. There are probably better and easier ways of doing this. I am merely an amateur, but I am glad I learned how to program. I will be learning PHP soon and hope I get even more out of Hand coding.
  • mGee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Anyone one getting paid to develop for the web, whether they consider themselves a "designer" or "app programmer" should damn well know what the hell they're doing. If they're using a WYSIWYG editor....chances are they don't. Or they're having to go behind the WYSIWYG editor and clean up the code....which means that the efficiency that they're claiming they gain using the editor is all *****.


    Hand-coding is the only acceptable route that a professional should be taking. Period.

  • Draven, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Amen. Hand coders have to know what the hell they're doing. I CAN'T STAND designers who claim to be Web designers, and are surprised when you tell them all the useful stuff CSS and PHP can do.
  • micromause, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Handcode + Auto-Complete Editor = Best! =D
  • mikereads, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I tutor people in graphic design in the college I attend and there's ALWAYS someone who's taking a class in dreamweaver that comes in completely lost. I always end up then showing them the basic codes for a HTML website. Usually then they can start understanding all the things they did wrong through the program's interface.
  • NSXROX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0WYSIWYG programming makes you become an expert in the programming IDE. Handcoding makes you become an expert in the programming language. Which would you rather have under your belt?
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