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275 Comments
- theberlindoctor, on 07/07/2009, -8/+231Once again, codec licenses, legal copyright and other assorted corporate ***** ***** us over. Hurah.
- serif69, on 07/07/2009, -0/+184It didn't drop Ogg Theora. It never specified it in the first place. The authors of the standard were accepting proposals for video codecs, and they had narrowed it down to Ogg Theora and H.264. Mozilla stated that they wouldn't support H.264; Apple stated that they wouldn't support Ogg Theora; Opera stated that it didn't matter to them at all; and Microsoft walked around with plugs in its ears going "STANDARDS?! LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!" So, we are at an impasse. Either Mozilla breaks down and works out its licensing problems with H.264 (unlikely), or Apple breaks down and converts its entire line of products to support Ogg Theora (not gonna happen), or Adobe and Microsoft dance together in celebration that their horrendous vector animation suites will continue to own the game of web video.
- RyGiL, on 07/07/2009, -4/+134Sweet... this opens up the door for RealPlayer to be the native format for HTML5. It's gonne be...buffering...to be awe...buffering...some!
- ghoppe, on 07/07/2009, -1/+91This headline is misleading. HTML5 is *not* dropping support for Ogg Theora, it's just not specifying a codec standard. It's unfortunate the browser suppliers can't get on the same page with this, but each have valid concerns. For now, you have to serve both Ogg Theora and h.264 files if you want to support all (most?) modern browsers.
Here's a page showing how to serve "video for everybody" in HTML5:
http://camendesign.com/code/video_for_everybody
It’s compatible with HTML4, HTML5, XHTML1 and additionally also works when served as application/xhtml+xml. - FapCommander, on 07/07/2009, -53/+137***** you Apple, ruining it for the rest if us
- Otter887, on 07/07/2009, -14/+96seriously, what's the point in making HTML 5 if it doesn't account for videos, probably the largest (by memory) use of the internet?
F'in Flash doesn't even have a volume control! Damn you, Adobe! I liked Flash better with Macromedia.
PS: Download Foxit Reader instead of lousy Adobe Acrobat for your PDF's. It uses a lot less memory and includes annotation features for free. - Majora26, on 07/07/2009, -3/+75***** the RIAA!
- BigLou, on 07/07/2009, -32/+100GOD DAMNIT APPLE! STOP TRYING TO JAM QUICKTIME DOWN OUR THROATS!
I also heard that they won't accept HTML5 unless they can bundle Bonjour, Apple Update, iTunes, Safari, and about 14 other services I don't need. - jdames1980, on 07/07/2009, -11/+72You can't really blame Apple for this. Apple has no interest in Ogg Theora, simply because it has so much invested in H.264. They have specialty chips specifically for H.264 video, there are no such chips for Ogg Theora.
- ssttuu, on 07/07/2009, -15/+66Ogg Theora is not the codec you want as part of HTML5, it would not be able to scale from Mobile Phones to Full Screen TVs, neither is H.264 or HTTP Streaming.
Thus with no real codec agreed upon the W3C standards body should not mandate any codec yet. - Lounger540, on 07/07/2009, -1/+51Not just Apple either. It seems like every one from handset manufactures, TV capture makers, GFX card makers, and all sorts of other mobile devices have dedicated H.264 encode/decode chips now.
- Tarnum, on 07/07/2009, -1/+48With toolbar you can't uninstall!
- holzp, on 07/07/2009, -1/+45Edited for clarity:
Google (YouTube) also advocated H.264 - pgiessel, on 07/07/2009, -5/+43Google (Chrome) also advocated H.264
- ghoppe, on 07/07/2009, -2/+35Keep using Lynx if you want…
- spect3r, on 07/07/2009, -9/+40Let's wait till we hear what W3C says, not WHATWG
- theonlywizdum, on 07/07/2009, -1/+32mmmmm chips.
- DeathfireD, on 07/07/2009, -7/+38When video and Apple are involved, it always has something to do with QuickTime.
- inactive, on 07/07/2009, -1/+32Here's an awesome flash story. Boxee runs great on my XP1800+ and plays most SD content fine. Drop the flash hulu player in, and it runs like a turd burgler after eating 100 double whoppers. Flash sucks ass.
- teunome, on 07/07/2009, -3/+32This is why we can't have nice things!
- r3zonance, on 07/07/2009, -0/+26PNG wasn't released until the GIF licensing issues surfaced.
And surprise the uptake of PNG was held back by ***** IE. - MasterQ, on 07/07/2009, -5/+30its h.264 not quicktime. And grimfandango, I wouldnt say it has nothing to do with apple. They were the only one outright opposing ogg theora. If they hadn't it may have become the standard.
- TrevorPace, on 07/07/2009, -3/+27The developers or Firefox don't want to play around with getting sued by the patent owners of H.264 even if they are a standard. They are a video standard. Not THE web video standard.
- homercles337, on 07/07/2009, -0/+22Well, these things take time. Just look at the GIF/PNG example. It took *way* too long for PNG to dominate--it should have done so right out of the box.
- MtheoryX, on 07/07/2009, -1/+23Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
- AdmiralAcbar, on 07/07/2009, -0/+21Or better yet, include it in HTML5. Oh wait...
- gamepr0, on 07/07/2009, -3/+24We're talking about standards here... we need some standard codec so videos for a big audience can be encoded in that standard to make sure everyone (except IE users) can see it
- grimfandango, on 07/07/2009, -1/+21standard != open source. there are patents involved.
- 700c26, on 07/07/2009, -3/+23What's wrong with <video codec="my_favorite_codec">? Then the browsers can implement whichever codecs they want.
- inactive, on 07/07/2009, -1/+21Every flash video player i've seen has a volume control. It's silly that everyone has to roll their own though. There really needs to be a standard built-in video player control for flash.
- MasterQ, on 07/07/2009, -2/+21google supported both formats in chrome. how is that evil?
- MajorKoopa, on 07/07/2009, -0/+18Haaa....if you didn't see this coming you shouldn't be a web developer.
- kswanton, on 07/07/2009, -4/+22I think the author needs to get a grasp of HTML 4.01.
I see:
One of the key features of HTML 5 is its native handling of rich media such as video and audio through the and tags,
If you view source, he/she entered:
One of the key features of HTML 5 is its native handling of rich media such as video and audio through the <video> and <audio> tags... maybe <video> and <audio> would have worked a bit better... - DrowSwordsman, on 07/07/2009, -8/+25For those of you who simply read the title and went OMG FAIL, without knowing anything, lets sum up a post by winterspan on the AppleInsider forum.
"Let me inject some reality into your fantasy world. Low-cost/thin laptops, netbooks, UMPC, MIDs, and smartphones don't have the processing power to decode high quality and especially HD video. Even if they did, software decoding is very inefficient and uses too much power.
Because of this, all of these mobile device platforms have hardware decoding logic built in to their chipsets or system-on-a-chip. These hardware decoders are fixed in function, with the vast majority of them supporting MPEG4/H264 and WMV/VC-1, and many supporting MPEG-2. NONE of them support Theora and they cannot be simply modified via software to do so.
In summary, if Theora gets adopted as the standard, native HTML 5 video becomes COMPLETELY WORTHLESS to the tens of millions of mobile devices out there." - s73v3r, on 07/07/2009, -1/+18Google has also stated that while Chrome would support both, they were going to use h.264 for YouTube. They do not believe that Ogg Theora has the bitrate to quality ratio needed for them to operate a site like YouTube.
- ghoppe, on 07/07/2009, -0/+16The "best choice" doesn't have hardware chips that support it, so it doesn't work as well on portable devices. The "best choice" also doesn't have the bit to quality ratio that YouTube wants so won't be supported there.
Right now there is no "best choice". h.264 has high licensing fees and Ogg Theora isn't iPhone/YouTube friendly. Each doesn't have support across all major browsers. HTML5 had no choice but to just give up and not "bless" either of them. - s73v3r, on 07/07/2009, -0/+16Mozilla was in favor of Ogg. The Mozilla foundation is actively and monetarily supporting the development of the Ogg Theora codec.
- eadnams, on 07/07/2009, -3/+19Indeed, because H264 "scales" so well... from handhelds to web, to 4K HD-- one codec for all purposes, I love it.
- Cl1mh4224rd, on 07/07/2009, -1/+17> "Thats it, the video tag is done. End of story."
Uhh, no. The <video> tag is still in. The only thing that has been dropped is the specification of which *codec* the vendors should use to render <video>, since no one could agree.
Now it's up to the vendors to decide which codec to use, which, unfortunately, will make the behavior of the <video> tag essentially browser-specific.
That's how I understand it, anyway. - eronskoh, on 07/07/2009, -2/+18*knowleDge
yours shines further - twigboy, on 07/07/2009, -0/+14thats why new hardware comes out
it'd be as stupid as me going around stopping implementation of the 3g network if my phone isnt 3g compatible - mooninite, on 07/07/2009, -2/+16Uh... Theora is actively developed. Where did you learn such nonsense? I'm sure you think Linux still "looks like Windows 3.1" too.
Theora 1.1 is very close to h.264 quality and size and keeps improving every week.
http://web.mit.edu/xiphmont/Public/theora/demo7.ht ... - jgram, on 07/07/2009, -4/+18@gamepr0 I agree with the hardware support. But it all depends on the test. Some tests show H.264 as superior to OGG, while other tests show quite the opposite. There really is no consensus to say that one is greater than the other.
- jgram, on 07/07/2009, -14/+27Except that ogg actually does stand up to H.264
- weeFred, on 07/07/2009, -3/+16HyperText - Anything which uses hyperlinks. It doesn't mean that HTML only governs the use of text, idiot.
- r3zonance, on 07/07/2009, -2/+15Except nobody supports Theora with hardware decoding acceleration. Only a handful of geeks care about Theora.
Nearly all phones support the Baseline H264 profile (lower quality of H264 used by YouTube) and Blu-ray supports H.264 Main Profile, as does PS3 natively.
And the list of devices supporting Theora is comparatively tiny. - MasterQ, on 07/07/2009, -3/+16you realize after 2010 theres a "broadcasting fee" in the mpeg4 license right? Would you rather pay for this (directly or indirectly) or use an open source codec?
And firefox, chrome, and opera were going to use this "obscure" open source codec that you said no one would use. Apple was the only one throwing the hissy fit about using ogg theora. Google was using both, but only because youtube uses h.264. - macslut, on 07/07/2009, -0/+13I dugg you up because that's a great resource, but I hate the thought of doing this. I don't like the thought of having 2 video files, a swf, and coding for features such as playlists, sharing, etc...as well as testing it across multiple players, browsers, and platforms each with different functionality.
Somehow this <video> tag that was supposed to make our lives easier, is ending up just adding more levels of complexity, workflow, and testing, with little or no benefit. - scruffles, on 07/07/2009, -1/+14so firefox won't be able to view youtube and safari won't be able to view facebook? then why have a standard?
- s73v3r, on 07/07/2009, -0/+12No, but the open-source and lack of license fees would matter to a browser producer, and content producers.
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