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89 Comments
- greggles, on 10/11/2007, -0/+28We absolutley need this. Anyone with hosting accounts (that's pretty much all of you, right) should submit a support ticket requesting that their host 1) support php5.2 by default and 2) join the list of hosts
- Arancaytar, on 10/11/2007, -0/+26Finally! I've had it with these lousy workarounds for Drupal 4 - starting from not being able to use foreach($array as &$element). You'd think MediaWiki sent a strong enough message when it dumped PHP4 in 2005, but apparently many web hosts are still as unwilling to upgrade as two years ago.
I wouldn't normally advocate breaking backward compatibility, but I think its time to move on after all these years. - alimadzi, on 10/11/2007, -0/+22This is long overdue and a very welcome development. PHP has many worthy competitors these days including Ruby and Python. Continuing to build apps using PHP 4 is like fighting with one hand tied behind our backs. A wholesale move to PHP 5 will be a great boon to PHP developers everywhere. I wonder when we'll see a GoPHP 6 movement...
- vdxc, on 09/29/2008, -0/+14It really is about time. With php6 final planned for the end of 2007, php4 really should be dumped by now, or at least, every host have planned their migration strategy and to have begun executing it. php4 gives php a bad name. If a script isn't php5 compatible by now, it's not worth running.
- GregMoney, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9A huge effort that needs to be done. Great Work!
- AlexFerny, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8OO is much better in 5 :)
- Nodren, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7i'll never understand why php5 isnt more popular, now a days you can easily set up a lamp server under debian or redhat which can support both php4 and php5 either by using .php4 and .php5 files or via a .htaccess value.... why cant more web hosts set this up? i made a stable production server using it, howtoforge.com has great tutorials on running 4 and 5 side by side!
- ell0bo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7PHP5 is a god send, and I come from a java background (admittedly, I am not a fan of PHP4). PHP is better then java because sometimes you just don't want to worry about the damn data types and want to get your data coming back in with json without really worrying if it's really object or an array. You get the OO structure which you always must have in Java, but the flexibility to go a little out of the box if needed. PHP is always my front end, Java can do the back end heavy lifting on the servers. Allow both to write to mySQL, simple enough hybrid to develop almost anything you may want and or need.
- sacherjj, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6I hear you. The object support is much better in PHP5, but the thing that annoyed me the most was lack of Exceptions in PHP4. It feels like coding for ASP where you can't have try/catch, just have to check after every freaking line if something went wrong.
- matthwk, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7Good news, I welcome the new functionality. For more about PHP5 adoption, check out: http://buytaert.net/php-is-dead-long-live-php
- vdxc, on 09/29/2008, -0/+6"would be so slow to adopt php5"
Actually, it's not would be slow. They are slow. They don't want to deal with requests from users who are running backward scripts that aren't php5 compatible. - mtekk, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8Well PHP6 needs to be released first
- lgarfiel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6There's a ton of functionality in PHP 5.2 that has nothing to do with Java-style OO. (I actually think PHP's OO implementation is better than Java's, but we won't go into that...) PHP scales up to running Yahoo and Facebook, or down to a personal blog. It isn't the answer to all tasks, by any means, but it's far from out of date.
- expert01, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7I've decided to go PHP5 only with all my scripts
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5That's the problem with mingling UI, business logic, and database access. The lack of code re-use means simple enhancements require tons of changes all over the place. I don't even put Java code in my JSPs because that reduces maintainability. Everything on the web side is done tag libraries.
- dchakrab, on 11/14/2007, -0/+5Agreed. It's strange that hosting companies would be so slow to adopt php5; isn't this easier for a budget host than trying to support ruby or python?
If your host has a forum for clients, posting a link to this article with copy of Greggles' comment above might get their attention. - h0zae, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I understand the concept of the logo, however it seems a little hideous....
- pbgswd, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4This story should serve as a a wakeup call to all the shared hosting companies out there who wont support php5. Shared hosting is for many companies nothing more than a profit center with no support at all. This service is even farmed out to other larger providers in something that looks like a people farm out of the matrix. I would like to see hosts who wont upgrade to php5 to be forced to change or forced out of business.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4It's a great idea and all, but it's not enough. The big players like vBulletin and MediaWiki still support security updates for PHP4 versions of their software. Most websites still running on PHP4 stuff are more than happy with the features they have. The only thing that will concern them is if it's not secure anymore. To compound the problem further it took a lot of garbage to make a large scale php4 website. You end up with masses of very unreadable code, which makes migration a complete headache. This one little act still isn't enough incentive to make even a dent in the problem.
- Jugalator, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3As a fan of object-oriented development and more easily reusable components, I'm all for this. :-)
- PugFish, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I totally agree. Although I prefer to use ASP.NET, I work primarily with PHP and it's much more suited to web work. If they beefed it up a bit to be more powerful like .NET and Java but as flexible as it is now, there would be no contest in which I would use. PHP5 was a good step up but it feels like they're holding back a lot for the sake of backwards compatibility.
Here's hoping PHP6 brings more nice stuff, I hope it has a quicker uptake than PHP5 has had and we won't need a Go PHP6 - Fortyseven, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3We won't touch anything less than PHP5 where I work. In fact, I kinda thought this was the standard now. I wasn't aware there were still big migration issues present. ***** it. It's 2007: cut the cord. :P
- LoudNoise, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3The other biggest problem I find with hosting is lack of extension support. Moving everything to PHP5 would be a dream come true, but what about some of the newer extensions? I had to fight my host for a month to get them to install MySQLi.
- shinda, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I just hope this means my host will upgrade from php3, just maybe...
- rdjurovich, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I think this is an extremely good idea, and hope that I can convince my project "Website Baker" to support it with me.
- dopry, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Yeah but in reality the things that need to change to get a php4 app to run on php5 are minor... regexes could almost do the job for you... http://usphp.com/manual/en/migration5.incompatible.php
- sirsteveh, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Fortunately, it looks like pretty much the entire PHP dev community has lots of incentive to join. The more momentum they gain, the easier it will be for projects to join - if "everyone" is going to PHP 5, then your user base is probably going to be more understanding if your project drops PHP 4. I'm not holding out for phpbb, though; I think they have a vested interest in appealing to as many people as possible.
- Error601, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Scaling isn't really an issue with any of them. It's all about separating the code layers to improve maintainability and removing dependence on a particular server or database. Just having SQL embedded in your code is kind of dated now. EJB3 lets you plop your binaries into any server implementation running any database and have it work with no changes.
- ylikone, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Popular free Linux server OS's like CentOS, should already dump php4 as the default. The clients I have all run either CentOS or RHE, which has php4 as the current default.
- gerkin, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3If the PHP developers were more committed to backwards compatibility (something that's been sorely lacking in the PHP dev community for a long long time) then PHP5 would be more widely adopted already. The biggest issue here is that the PHP dev team, by many examples over the past several years, are NOT dedicated to remaining compatible with existing, documented specs and regularly break expected (and documented!) behaviours, even on simple dot releases, let alone full releases. It's surprising how many bugs are closed as "behaves as expected" -- even when they are presented with proper documentation to back them up, but the dev has over-ruled the bugs because they behave as _they_ feel they should (not according to the actual documentation involved).
This makes for a very guarded community and hosting providers are not doing these upgrades because they will break so many current sites... not something you want to do to your customers. The questions that hosting providers face is not "if" the upgrades are going to break existing sites, but how badly are they going to be broken. If they can't offer backward compatability, which in this case they can't (without making customers jump through hoops at least), it is potentially a pretty bad business move for them, and without themselves jumping through hoops (like the way they offer MySQL 4 or 5 choices on database installations from many control panel environments these days) they are basically telling their customer "Sorry about your luck, maybe you should upgrade your code if you have problems." - sacherjj, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2What my host has done, and others will probably follow or already have, is offer separated hosts for php5 and php4. This allows the installed base make the choice. Many will as php5 is required to run the new software. This alleviates some of the problem of people who don't care about upgrading not having scripts break.
- lgarfiel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2PHP 5.1 and later include PDO, which provides an OO-style database layer for MySQL, Postgres, MS SQL, Oracle, SQLite, and everything else in a common API. It's included by default, unlike mysqli. Give it a whirl.
- smackhero, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2that's always going to be a problem with shared hosting. they can't possibly install every library that users request. it's just not practical nor smart. the best you can do is to find a host that supports the popular extensions you need. dreamhost usually supports most of the libraries that i require, and if they don't then they are knowledgeable enough to at least suggest a workaround or alternative extension that they have installed. but otherwise you'll just have to run your own web server or purchase dedicated hosting =
- rdjurovich, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I wonder how this will affect the adoption of the Zend Framework (requires PHP 5.1.4 minimum)
- phatduckk, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2php 5 is way superior to 4 IMO. this weekend i was asked to take over a php 4 project and it was painful. pushing 5 is a good thing!
- savager, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I'm all for this project.
They should really update their logo to current times though :( - Arancaytar, on 11/14/2007, -0/+2"lousy workarounds for Drupal 4"
Of course I meant PHP4. Freudian slip, though - I also hate the idea of backporting code to Drupal 4.7, and wish that everyone would just upgrade their sites and addons to the latest stable release already. - bean1975, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Hello? What problems are we talking about? I am only aware of one problem, that with the order of object destruction and shutdown functions but I fixed that in 2006 November with a one line patch and since then, we are OK. See http://drupal.org/node/93945 for more.
- lgarfiel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2http://us2.php.net/pdo - If the underlying database supports stored procedures, PDO should as well.
- intenscia, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Great to see this initiative, I currently use the Code Igniter Framework, and it kills me to see all the overhead caused by fact that it maintains PHP 4 compatibility (such ugly code hacks!). The solution is simple, all apps made, must be made for PHP 5.2 onwards - the hosts will quickly support it if they will otherwise lose their customers.
- robertDouglass, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Actually, this was intentional.
- lgarfiel, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1If not, there's several web hosts that are listed as supporting the effort already that offer ~$5/month accounts with PHP 5.2. There's lots of places you can "take your business elsewhere" to.
- BabaRamDass, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1This all can be done with PHP as well, provided the proper design patterns are used in the right context. You don't have to embed SQL in your PHP if you design your application to enterprise-standards.
I prefer PHP to Java because PHP doesn't require the use of OO. You can use it where it makes sense, but you aren't forced to where and when it doesn't. - ReneL, on 11/14/2007, -0/+1Finally we made it happen: PHP 4 end of life announcement (1.1.2008), the last months are counting...
http://www.php.net/index.php#2007-07-13-1 - iapx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1It's time to flush PHP3, PHP4, takes PHP5 as the mainstream and look forward for PHP6 development/porting!
Future will be sexy! (It's for you David C! ;-) ) - nicklewisatx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Typo3 is far from a "who?". Rumor has it the Joomla team will support this initiative as well... lets hope they deliver.
- moraes, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Great idea. GoPHP5! Yay!
- jason469, on 11/14/2007, -1/+2I'll admit, I've been lazy about it and haven't made the switch yet. I've been short on time, but this has inspired me to get on the ball and dump PHP4. Wait, before I go looking it up can someone answer a quick question for me? does SMF support PHP5 without a reinstall and without losing all of the data stored on MySQL?
- LingNoi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1So you are saving $5 a month.. :/
- carloszun, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Lol, I support this initiative just to see the WTFs on the faces of the people at hosting companies.
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