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Frameworks for Designers

alistapart.com — These days, “framework” is quite a buzzword in web development. With JavaScript frameworks like the Yahoo User Interface library, jQuery, and Prototype getting a lot of attention and web application frameworks like Rails and Django getting even more, it seems like everyone is using some kind of framework to build their sites.

Who dugg this? Made popular Jun 13, 2007

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  • positron, on 10/11/2007, -0/+17Did any of you people even read the damn article? It's not about Web app or scripting frameworks! It's about using a framework-like system to organize your CSS and optimize reusability. What has that got to do with arguing about which Web dev framework is better than another?
  • dakellog, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6YUI is not a framework, and the article does not claim it is. YUI is a library.

    Also from the article:
    “framework”: a set of tools, libraries, conventions, and best practices that attempt to abstract routine tasks into generic modules that can be reused.

    No. A framework is something that you put things (code) inside of, like a prefab house. It is a set of rules, not much different than going to school. Want freedom? Don't use a framework.
  • kamikarmy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Framework isn't a buzzword. It has existed for years and you can see several references to it in the Gang of Four patterns book, or the No Silver Bullet: Essence and Accidents of Software Engineering, or in several books published 20 years ago...

    If web development is starting to see an emergence of framework it is because best practices are appearing in this area. It is finally maturing and at least have a set of tools to ease development for the web.
  • inactive, on 10/11/2007, -6/+10Is LJ World going to release their CSS/Javascript framework so we can see what he is talking about? Django beats the brakes off of Rails, so hopefully this new framework will blow the YIU/Prototype/openrico etc out of the water too.
  • mcmlxxii, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7EXCLUSIVE! Commonly repeated css styles should be saved and re-used!

    In other news: Pope Catholic! Bears found defecating in wooded areas!
  • moltar2, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"just think how many CSS blocks you need to repeat" what? CSS is meant to eliminate repetition. If you find yourself repeating a lot, then you are doing something wrong!
  • wingman42, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2If you work on a group of websites with more than one person then a framework can be really beneficial.

    For example, if you have a framework and are designing a new site with 3 column layout. You can just grab the 3 column layout CSS and html from the framework and go from there. That way you don't get 3 different layouts with different ID and Class names from 3 different designers. The framework adds consistency that is hard to achieve with a group of CSS designers.
  • lunchbox170, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Great article, I think I might create my own framework.

    I hate digg now, all you people do is fight, who cares if YUI is a framework or not or if framework is a buzzword, god grow up.
  • rebotfc, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2The author of the article may be interested in looking at HAML, which is a html&ruby markup language, and specficially its SASS subset which is its css equivalent. The reason sass has a lot of potential in the CSS 'framework' paradigm is that it can generate alot of the css whilst eliminating repetition. While you may think this is an unnecessary abstraction, just think how many CSS blocks you need to repeat, or page dimensions scattered & repeated in a CSS file.

  • fkr3, on 10/11/2007, -6/+7Tutorials in general tend to be written by ***** idiots who at best have only a tentative grasp on what their trying to teach. I know that sounds harsh but I'm a bitter and jaded kind of guy, plus it's ridiculous how many stupid tutorials are out there. People learn a little about a language, next thing you know they're an expert and they make themselves a site full of ads where they share their confused and half-arsed wisdom, at best providing crap examples that don't compile or work, at worst setting terrible examples that teach developers how to produce easily raped websites.

    I use IISRewrite which is a C++ port of mod_rewrite, costs $100 a server but it's lighter and faster than having ASPNET checking every single page request.
  • ismith, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3I want to try Django, but for now I'm not going any farther than my two (mt) Grid Servers. So until they make that Django container, I'm stuck trying to figure out how to install it on OS X...
  • rebotfc, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Agreed but if you really think about css markup there is alot of repetition especially with nested selectors and positional attributes reused throughout the css.

    As an example you can have css variables, i.e. !pagewidth and !contentwidth and use indentation to define nested list selectors. This way you only need to change a couple of variables at the start of your css file to change your layout but importantly keeping the consistency.
  • skabber, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I have been in contact with media temple over the last year about getting Django support on the Grid Server platform, they keep telling me "soon". I think I am just going to have to go with their Dedicated Virtual solution and install it myself.
  • wouaren, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Ok now give us a good css framework !
  • analogpanda, on 10/11/2007, -4/+4I want to try Dr. Pepper on my cheerios, but that doesn't have much to do with Django, which really doesn't have much to do with the A List Apart article if you bother to read it.
  • Vindexus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Well this convinced me. I've always wanted to do this to speed up my designs but now I think I finally will.
  • adolfojp, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3@fkr3 (#7158102)

    The .NET framework is great. However, it lacks a few nice items out of the box that rails and django like frameworks include. Because of this asp.net tutorials tend to be less focused.

    I generally include nhibernate, urlrewritingnet and nhibernate role provider in my asp.net subframework.

    Yes, this reminds me of the "jars" "switch" rails ad. However, like Linux, variety and options can be both an advantage and a curse.
  • inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0OMG you're right. He's right guys. I feel so ashamed! Group hug!

    I don't know which god you're talking to, but implying that he or she or it is immature is probably a bad idea.
  • dakellog, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1It seems not everyone loves frameworks.

    This is a good read on frameworks gone bad.
    http://terrychay.com/blog/article/is-ruby-the-dog-and-php-the-dogfood.shtml
  • magic6435, on 10/11/2007, -11/+9"Django beats the brakes off of Rails"

    So how is life in fantasy land these days?
  • ScrabbyDoo, on 10/11/2007, -5/+2Fanboyz Alert!
  • fkr3, on 10/11/2007, -7/+2Yeah, the article's about CSS. But it's also about frameworks in general, which is what we were discussing.

    There's really nothing to talk about with a "css framework". You put commonly used stuff in files you can integrate/manage quickly, the end.
  • fkr3, on 10/11/2007, -16/+10JavaScript frameworks are bloated and inefficient. They need to be implemented at the IDE level and generated on a per application (or site) basis dependent on exactly what's needed.

    PS.
    The .NET Framework beats the brakes off Django + Rails.

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