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139 Comments
- doctechnical, on 10/12/2007, -2/+130I write symphonies that only the CPU can appreciate.
- RedHerringHack, on 10/12/2007, -5/+128This is BS. Mere Symantics. I am a coder, programmer and software developer.
- Humptydank, on 10/12/2007, -2/+91
I'm a Liability. - jgrgg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+54i think im called a user
- BESTenemy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+50I'm a GUI compiler. I do less than half the work, but take all the credit.
- askldjd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+39When talking to co-worker, I am a coder.
When talking to my boss, I am a programmer.
When trying to impress the ladies (which usually fails), I am a software engineer. - kirakun, on 10/12/2007, -3/+39I'm a copycat. I copy&paste codes where-ever I can find them and then modify them only enough to make them work together.
- unibomber999, on 10/12/2007, -2/+36I'm He-Man, Master of the Universe.
Programmer, coder, developer...Nobody cares what you call yourself as long as you get the job done. I don't know of any other profession outside of executives that agonize so much about their title. - meshman, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24"Coders are like smart assembly line workers as opposed to programmers who are plant engineers. Programmers are the brains, the glorious visionaries who create things."
What ridiculous tripe. I've been a "programmer" for 27 years. "Coder" is just some made up jackass word like "Web 2.0" so somebody can feel important. Programmer, coder, Web v1,2,3,4... it's all the same thing.
"Panels chose to debate extensively on subjects like managing innovation, business growth and multiple geographies. But there was nothing on programmers/coders"
Gee, I wonder why. - iamafatguy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+20I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to!! I have people skills!! I am good at dealing with people!!! Can't you understand that?!? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!!!!!!!
- geodescent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Software engineers know what "Use Cases" are.
Coders don't have time for your precious "documentation." - allenu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15This guy = coder
Seriously, this is a load of crap. I've never once heard someone make a distinction between "coder" and "programmer". If there is one, this guy just made it up. - drlog, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18The difference as I define it is:
Coder: Someone who writes code to do things. Often quite simple things such as accessing a database, writing a class wrapper, UI work etc.
Programmer: Someone who writes code to solve more complicated problems. So I see it as more of an algorithmic design type job often with a mathematical spin such as optimisation problems.
So of course you can be both! Most programmers are both but there are a lot of coders that are not programmers.
Note: this is just the way I see it but I am curious to see what other people think. - joshua5, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12I'm going back to the home page for the next article.
- killinger777, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12coder
noun
a person who designs and writes and tests computer programs [syn: programmer]
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/coder - phlyngpngn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11The idea behind this article is a good one, but it seems to be falling over itself by confusing terms. I think it means to separate programmers from software engineers. It's true, there's a big difference, and it's also true that programmers need little more than high school math and some experience with logic. On the flip side, the software engineer knows more about what's going on behind the scenes and probably has, or should I say, "ought to have" very extensive math experience.
Establishing a name, "Are programmers or should we called them coders, ..." and then using the term programmer to describe a software engineer just doesn't work. It establishes confusion between what a "programmer" and a "coder" is. - LordofShadows, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I just programmed some html and a spreadsheet!
- aegis9975, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8I am a literary expressionist of silicon linguistics.
- washcapsfan37, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8In the end, we're all just code monkeys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Wy7gRGgeA
(don't ask me to explain the video, just listen to the song) - Dogtown7, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7people that didn't get the Office Space joke are neither programmers or coders...
- johnnyrotten, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Don't fall off that high horse. You might break something...
- FlashX83, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Steve Balmer would like to weigh in his opinion:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6304687408656696643&q=balmer+developers&hl=en - darkyoshi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6neither. it's irrelevant.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7There wouldn't be "agony" about it if web dev industry wasn't full of poorly skilled (or completely unskilled) kids claiming to be developers/programmers/coders/graphic designers etc.
If every other industry had entry requirements of "a computer" they'd be anal about job titles too. - tomvendetta, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I'm a pokemon.
- etchalon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6I've come to the firm belief that the less talent you have, the more you care what people call you.
- Enlightenment, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7In my opinion, this is how I look at the terms:
- Coder == Person that is given a predefined function interface and asked to implement the code. This person doesn't need to have knowledge of the entier system. This is typical of code that is farmed out to other countries or given to rookie coders...basically just go do this and give it back when you are done.
- Programmer == Typically would be someone with a Computer Science degree, does more than a Coder. Usually these people work in the middle-ware or upper-user interface, and not down at the driver level or specifying exactly how the SW should interface with hardware, nor help define the register layout of new IC chips or registers in FPGA's.
- Software Engineer == Typically would be someone with a Computer Engineering degree or Electrical Engineering degree or some cross over or combination of Engineering and Computer Science. I consider real Software Engineers only people that have hardware design knowledge or work in embedded or real-time systems or in applications where higher-end math is required. These people typically work in drivers, low-level code, work with digital engineers, or write embedded code and maybe even digital signal processing (DSP) code. The best software engineers are typically involved in the early design of a hardware product, and must consider all aspects of the project, including processor type, processor interfaces, data flow between multiple processors, software development tools, system software design, low-level driver designs, ... There are way too many coders and programmers and Software Developers that have SW Engr titles!
- DSP Engineer or DSP Enginer == A specialized version of Software Engineer that usually has some form of Electrical Engineer focused on DSP or possibly a DSP masters or EE with DSP masters or some combination...different colleges do it different ways. There are flavors of DSP Engineers, like Audio DSP Engineer, or Layer1 Protocol DSP Engineer, and so on.
- Software Developer == Someone similar to a Software Engineer, but doesn't work with hardware or embedded designs. This is a catch all to cover more experienced software people, web application programming, windows application programming, ... If web or windows software needs to be written to support a new hardware product, these are the people that do the non-embedded coding.
- Software Guru == Might not be an official title, but is the super geek code / programmer / developer / engineer / systems person all rolled into one. These people have the title because they are really really good, not because they kiss ass. If you have one or more of these type of people on your team, it has a higher likely-hood of working right the first time, and likely major design flaws will be avoided or caught very early on. Young punks may want this title, but only a combination of skills and working on lots of projects can provide the wisdom to get you into this category.
Where do I fit today, somewhere between Software Engineer and Software Guru. I have done some DSP work, but don't call myself a DSP engineer, because I know they could walk all over me in arguments and design issues. - rubicante, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Is this discussion pointless or unnecessary?
- l00pee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Yeah, cuz *nix is just a bunch of scripts. The coder who wrote gcc was really good, too bad he wasn't good enough to be a programmer.
- pyrotoad, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6with respect to "There are more software engineers in the U.S. than..." -- can a person rightfully claim the title of engineer in the United States without an actual degree in Engineering? In America, can somebody who graduates with a CS degree and becomes a software developer call themselves a software engineer?
In Canada, the Engineering profession is regulated, and the title is legally protected. - tylerjames, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4you need university degree and accreditation to actually be a software engineer
at least in canada - LordofShadows, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3You do know Texas licenses software engineers right?
- micklerlop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3i'm a code monkey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_monkey
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/coder/3817/action/20f9dc9/ - lokoluis15, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3http://freecomputerbooks.com/
- posure, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Coder/programmer/developer are all the same thing...What's different is an engineer, but that name is misused most of the time so it has become synonymous with the other three names anyways.
- logic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Somehow I doubt it.
- geodescent, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Awww. I was hoping your comment would involve chair-throwing...
- Enlightenment, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Depending on a company, job titles can be of major importance, because a better title will pay more, even if you are doing the same thing.
Titles are very much over-rated, just like college degrees. One time we hired a guy that often would give the reason why something was the best way to do it, he said "because I have a MIT degree that's why"...thus a few weeks later we said to him "we don't care where you went to college, you are a dumb ass, and you are fired".
I don't care what title you have or how much crap that you can say to other people, because I will be able to determine your skills when I work with you on a project, and if your talk is bigger than your skills, I will let other people know about your lack of skills! - Scarblac, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Exactly. If you meet a software architect who doesn't actively code on the project he "architects" for, _RUN_. Those people are far removed from reality, and any problem you come to him with will be an implementation problem, that's yours to solve.
Seperate software architects, that just doesn't work. - D1STORT, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Although this is all just arguing semantics, I will say that in my experience there are two kinds of software engineers. The ones who solve the problems and the ones who make them. Like that co-worker who checks in a half-assed solution that you'll probably end up just totally re-writing three months later.
- PatrickX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"Software engineering" is definitely not about hardware at all, it's an approach to designing software systems. Don't confuse it with computer engineering just because it has engineering in the title. Low-level code is actually the least "engineered" kind of software, simply because at the lowest level, coding is more about algorithms and less about design.
(btw I have a Master's in CS, specialty in software engineering) - elfprince13, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3i think they're trying to differentiate between computer scientists and programmmers/cs wannabes.
- illuminatedwax, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3It's not semantics; he's artificially creating a divide between the two words in order to separate classes of people that know how to write code. In other words, he's redefining the two words in a useful manner that is more or less (but not completely) consistent with the way most people use it.
- etnu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Blah blah blah. I'm sick of hearing this same exact thing being said in many different ways -- it ALWAYS comes from the same ***** who think they're software geniuses, but who can't code their way out of a wet paper bag. They say that the actual programming that goes into the task is insignificant compared to their grandiose (and impossible to implement) ideas.
***** you! The process of creating software is a difficult one, and if the people who are writing the code aren't the same ones making decisions about how the product is going to work, you're going to wind up with a crappy product. Software creation is nothing like building something on an assembly line. Accept it and move on. - lycanth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2call me what you want, so long as i know i'm smarter than someone who would write such a drivel like this so he could appear condescending enough
- undersky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Why did this article turn me on? Oh right, that picture...
- Dotnetsky, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Wasn't it Einstein that said, "The two most common things in the Universe are hydrogen and programmers"?
- Enlightenment, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Oh yes, I forgot to include Software Architect (as stated by hockeysk8). This person has a major understanding of the entire project, product, and typically lots of wisdom and experience in the line of work. These people have to consider lots of different things, and have lots of experience to draw from when making major decisions. I consider this job a cross between Software Engineer, Software Guru, Systems Engineer. Most smaller companies don't have someone with this title, but instead someone is doing this as part of their job.
- JoeCabot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I know 'programmers' with masters degrees who know a lot of theory, but they create terrible software. What matters is if you can create programs that are usable, update-able and meet a business need. I have a computer science degree, but this job title snobbery is nonsense. If you enjoy creating software and it work well who cares what you are called. There are far too many wankers in this industry.
- logic, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2all three
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