What is Digg?286 Comments
- akh4x0r, on 10/11/2007, -8/+177Well, with 4 billion years and counting, we obviuosly aren't running Windows.
- Radionesiac, on 10/11/2007, -16/+108i'm in ur matrikz, qwestinin ur realitee
- reeder, on 10/11/2007, -3/+81I am, the rest of you are just hogging the processor cycles.
- mrwhitethc, on 10/11/2007, -2/+61I'm thinking they are using this line as their thesis "What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain."
- PatrickA, on 10/11/2007, -35/+87Short answer: No.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -3/+52Yes we are. The universe is coded in newtonian physics - the speed of light should be infinite but it is limited by the machine's capabilities. Other failures of newtonian physics are found in the quirks of the code's implementation.
- Tephra, on 10/11/2007, -0/+45I have often wondered this myself... However like one of my old friends said:
"so? even if we are you still need to live your life!" - smoothmedia, on 10/11/2007, -0/+41Try this one on... Do people, other than you, exist? Or is the entire universe simply in your imagination. Do you even exist?
- TheGroje, on 10/11/2007, -1/+41(Up Up, Down Down, Left Right, Left Right, B A [START]) ... if that works, it's a sim.
- wildfire, on 10/11/2007, -0/+39Someone forgot to install the spellchecker module on this one.
- veskris, on 10/11/2007, -4/+41Translation: I am scared to death of this possibility.
- geminitojanus, on 10/11/2007, -11/+46Prove it.
- TehSwat, on 10/11/2007, -4/+38Matrix Quote
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
What truth?
There is no spoon.
There is no spoon?
Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. " - geminitojanus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+30"Figuring out that we were living in a simulation would cause it to crash."
That's fairly arbitrary. The truth is there's no way to know we're _not_ living in a computer simulation, because we wouldn't know how perfect that simulation is; we have no introspection to the underlying system (unless you want to count physics as introspection). The idea that we're all living in a computer simulation is every bit as valid as the thought "we are all products of God"; it's a belief system/philosophy, by necessity non-provable, but also by necessity expandable and thought stimulating.
The whole "brain in a jar", Matrix-type reality has always been an intriguing thought, as far back as human record goes (Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" is a very good example of this), but for as long back as we know, it's been unprovable. The only thing that has changed since then to now is the terminology; we have generated capabilities far beyond that of the Greek's most fantastic dreams to the point where we can actually foresee construction of this "machina en machina" world, make movies about it and watch them blow up the box office. - NerdyNinja, on 10/11/2007, -3/+29foreach(HumanArray as ind){
if( (Boolean) ind.knowsWhatsUp()){
System.exit(-1)
}
}
"I don't even see the code. All I see is blonde... redhead..." - Mejogid, on 10/11/2007, -2/+25A few points that I'd like to know if anyone can clear up. First, how can we possibly know that individuals within such a simulation would be self-aware? I mean, ultimately it's only logic and assumptions that allow me to accept that someone else in the 'real world' is self-aware. Just as an example, if I have a world of conscious beings and pause the simulation, 'rewind' or alter individual minds, at what stage do they stop becoming concious?
Secondly, would it not be possible that a 'post-human' civilization would decide not to simulate conscious thought directly due to ethical concerns? Creating life in the billions is a pretty big step forward, and assuming our morals evolve as we move towards such a stage, would it be considered a reasonable price to pay for what is effectively entertainment?
Thirdly, what if it is fundamentally impossible to digitally simulate the nature of the universe? Even with quantum computing, it isn't necessarily possible. When we have such a limited grasp of the fundamentals of matter and conciseness it seems odd to create this sort of extravagance based on assumptions around them.
Fourth, if the universe is truly random and unpredictable on a macro level (see Schrodinger's Cat) then any sort of 'ancestor simulation' would be uselss a 'post-human' civilization.
I'm sure there are many other points for and against the hypothesis, but to me it seems highly theoretical and mathematical while ignoring various obvious problems. - bluesdealer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+24Ahahaha. Gotta love the Matrix: philosophy, hacking, guns, and kung fu.
- superyounan1, on 10/11/2007, -2/+21doesn't matter. If the simulation is sophisticated enough to allow us to evolve, and house the entire simulated universe, then its indistinguishable to us, and its equivalent, and we're as 'real' as everything in the universe. its not the same as the matrix idea
- wildfire, on 10/11/2007, -3/+19(A)bort, (R)etry, (I)gnore?
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -6/+22I proclaim that you are a talking, typing towel. Prove that you're not!
The burden of proof is on the party making the accusations. - seanc6610, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15I've tried ***** like that before, as well as theories that color is subjective, but I've decided that it has to be real. How would one person be able to "imagine" all the words in a dictionary and sports and thousands years of world history? How would the world be so terribly screwed up if it was all in my head? It just doesn't add up.
- JasonCox, on 10/11/2007, -4/+19So when is Life SP2 coming out?
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17"(2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof)"
You know, because this during-human society never runs programs like Sim Earth, or Spore, or a million computer simulations of our history. (Way too many WWII games) - duccodude, on 10/11/2007, -2/+17and i say "what the hell?"
- ejan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15I've thought the exact same thing before. Maybe you're just a projection of my subconscious...
- veskris, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14You can never give absolute proof of anything dear sir. All you can do is exactly what they have done here: give an argument of probability and evidence.
- nihility, on 10/11/2007, -4/+18Really? Reminds me of "The Matrix," it was a big deal when it came out. I think there was a sequel.
But yeah whenever something goes on that I can't explain I attribute it to a glitch in the matrix. Basically its my alternative theory to religion. I figure most of digg would appreciate that as a bail-out more than God. - xOpifex, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14If I remember correctly, The Thirteenth Floor came out before The Matrix.
- Jpesci, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12I agree with that... I mean does it even really make a difference in our personal little lives if we were? Our universe could be inside an astronomically sized whale cooch, but that's not really going to change anything.
- Waiting2awake, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15I know kung fu
- bluesdealer, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Impossible, I say!
All seriousness aside, this concept was around long before The Matrix. It dates back to the early days of western philosophy (and probably earlier). Heck, I remember wondering this at the age of 5. - benitojuarez, on 10/11/2007, -3/+13Pffft to all you that think the Matrix. More like the 13th floor. Go somewhere you would never ever dream of going.
- Homunculiheaded, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10I think the issue of recursion is much more interesting. If every civilization is likely to create ancestor simulations, than each ancestor simulation is the just as likely to create it's own simulation and so on. So either the ancestor simulation disallows for the possibility of creating a second ancestor simulation (imagine the cpu cycles that takes!) or we are pretty much just as likely living in a simulation higher up the stack.
- CorpusCallosum, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10Well, reality seems to be getting exponentially more complicated, but it started off as just some unresolvable colors and sounds and this feeling of wet and dry... So maybe, I am making it all up.
- resplence, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10Once I had a dream where I was in some sort of "torture castle", or "killer maze" or something; a medieval castle full of Rube Goldberg-like torture and killing machines, and I had to scape from there dodging all the mechanisms and being careful to not set some inconspicuous trigger that would set in motion an intricate sequence of events that would ultimately kill me.
The machinery and complexity of interactions, as well as the richness in details, was overwhelming. I had never seen something like that, it all worked flawlessly and I'm pretty sure I would never be capable to consciously engineer those machines, since when I woke up I couldn't reproduce anything. It felt very vivid, too. And yet, it was all in my head.
So it seems to me that using all of our "brainpower", imagining "all the words in a dictionary and sports and thousands years of world history" would be pretty trivial. - wildfire, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10What universe is your insanity in?
- TheBigBrother, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10Or maybe i'm imagining YOU and I just think that YOU think that YOU'RE imagining ME!
- cquinnd, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9Both are listed as 1999 in imdb, but I think you are correct that the Thirteen Floor was in theaters ahead of The Matrix.
Dark City on the other hand, came out a year before both of the other films. - phaed, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9lower layer of abstraction on top of which the Newtonian model is coded upon
- Mejogid, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9(Edit cut off)
Expanding on the ethical point, the main article argues (rather weakly IMO) that creating life would be seen as an ethically laudable action. However, it also states that it would likely at some stage be necessary to terminate these simulations (to me this seems completely necessary - they would have to be terminated either by processes within the simulation or externally before the computational power of the simulated universe reached that of the simulator), and even today a planned mass extinction of self-aware life would seem pretty unethical, at least to me. - pak314, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooo
- caehlan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9You think, therefore someone coded you with AI
- Murdats, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8someone is trying to send you a message, but apparently you still arent listening. is this unsubtle enough?
- Protoss, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Why wouldn't I? Am I supposed to think (after this happened) "Wow, this must not be a simulation, because they wouldn't program totally ***** up people into this simulation...."
- SurrealDream, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9I know Shaq Fu
- seanc6610, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9Why? It has absolutely no bearing on your life. You'll die long before the "truth" is found.
- Bob042, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8I think it bothers me the most that this is the 5th day in a row I've run into this idea from completely different sources. Family, friends, internet... creepy.
- stephanh, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8i don't want to delve too deeply into this argument, but assuming that we are in a simulation whose to say that the people simulating us aren't just in a simulation ..... it could continue infinitely
- Protoss, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9He's running software 1.0, spellchecker was a new feature introduced in 1.2 ;)
- Arkz, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8i wonder what the system requirements are for life as we know it? i mean i dont know about you guys but everything looks so smooth with no jaggies, its gotta be like 32x Anti Aliasing, and the way things start to get less detailed as they get further away, thats like 32x Anisotropic Filtering too! and the beautiful HDR effects are just awesome! AND no loading times! man...
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