What is Digg?134 Comments
- musbou, on 10/11/2007, -9/+31Some thing's fishy...
What is going on?
It looks like adobe's whole marketing department is commenting. - easymidget, on 10/11/2007, -5/+19I work with adobe. I'm a Mexican bricklayer though.
- dorshorst, on 10/11/2007, -3/+13Does this mean free energy? No more oil dependence, no more pollution? Way to go Adobe, indeed.
- KoldFuzun, on 10/11/2007, -6/+16ColdFusion 8 ... yum! It's integration with Flex 2 is awesome, and the PDF stuff is incredible.
- ryanguill, on 10/11/2007, -4/+13server monitor, line by line - step through debugger, integrated ajax features, threading support.....
*head explodes* - Chakotay, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10I have been developing apps since coldfusion 4... and it just keeps getting better and better.
Adding zip, image, threading, way to communicate with exchange, AJAX, JSON serialization... is just too awesome.. not that it could not be done before but standardizing is great..
Way to go Adobe - billybob476, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9Good news for all of us "undervalued" developers using a "dying" language.
- arkmtech, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12Freemind, dotProject, Gimp, Inkscape, Aptana, Ruby, Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP, AJAX, SugarCRM... all free.
These technologies are used everyday to plan, build, design, publish, serve, & provide service for websites that, in many cases, outperform the vast majority of Cold Fusion sites on the web today.
I may be just another geek with a web design/programming business running on all free/open-source software, but all of the aforementioned go to prove that simply because something costs money DOESN'T mean it's the top rung on the ladder. - 83457, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10It gets a major update every couple year, still has a strong following and makes money for Adobe. Why would they stop updating now?
- Trendecide, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11It's interesting how developers perceive ColdFusion. Most have never used it and therefore immediately condemn it, but have yet to realize how damn easy CF makes your life as a developer. Even more interesting is the fact that ColdFusion has grown immensely through it's Macromedia and Adobe acquisitions (rather than die out) into a mature, hybrid language that has exceptional functionality and can communicate with virtually any database with any other language on just about any platform.
No linux vs windows, mySQL vs msSQL, apache vs. IIS, JSP vs. .NET, OOP vs. Scripting, etc. Simply put, ColdFusion does all of that and more. And sitting on a Java foundation, ColdFusion is just as fast as any other language out there (CF has a notorious bad rep from its past when it was not Java). Having alpha and beta tested Scorpio for months now, Scorpio does it all even better. Create a maintenance free web application and walk away. This is the way web development should be.
There's much to look forward to in this release. Keep it up Adobe. - DamonDog, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8To all of you Apple fans... Macintosh SUCKS because there's no support for ethernet cards so you can't even use broadband! AND there's only a 1 mb of RAM limit AND you can't even play MP3 on a Mac!
Oh, WAIT... that was 20 years ago. Things have changed...
Basically, anyone who hasn't went and read the feature set and actually explored and compared it to the language they defend with such zealotry are just that... zealots.
If you are looking for a powerful, strong and reliable language that allows both a quick developer to build applications easily and a "let's do this 100% perfect by the books using all of the techniques I think are so important" type of person, you will find it here. Not to mention it's first-party to Flash, Flex, PDF, Apollo and everything else Adobe is doing. Not just "PDF and Flash". There is a platform here. You think this stuff is developed overnight? Think they aren't working on their products for 2010?
These features exist as of version 7 of ColdFusion (the PREVIOUS version), just to name a few simple things:
1.) There ARE free servers (BlueDragon), so the cost is prohibitive only if you want the Adobe support and their more unique features, but the language can run for free.
2.) ColdFusion will run on Windows, Mac, Unix, Linux, blah blah
3.) The tag-based aspect is mostly used now for quick dev (if this, then that when applicable), not for architectural decisions. CF is running on Java with an Object-oriented language built-in and it directly integrated with Java code. It supports just as many "elitist" functions.
4.) The files are compiled into byte code at first runtime... ColdFusion is fast.
5.) ColdFusion USED to be the simplest language, but... Jimi Hedrix only used to be able to play a few chords when he first started... 12 years later... he was great. (Don't go throwing around your "Stevie Ray Vaughn was better"... this isn't about the best guitar player, it's a flighty comparison. That's what you PHP people seem to do... "Yeah, it's ok... for beginners, but nowhere near PHP") You just haven't looked into it properly.
People grow up, advancements are made... things change. ColdFusion has. - michaelmuller, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11Yeehah. My job just got a whole lot easier. Now to sit back and watch the checks fly in.
- mrfish, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6ha ha. Me too! Were a dying breed. And I thought I had to learn a real language. Sweet!
- tbeseda, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6@locn
yes, easier than rails. CFML is wicked simple. - 83457, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11CF Community
- ferric84, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7"why pay money for coldfusion when you can use x, y, and z for free..."
when you can pay a CF developer for 30 seconds of his/her time for writing (imagine there are chevrons around this sample):
cfinput type="text" name="email" required="yes" validate="email" message="Please enter a valid e-mail address."
in order to generate javascript that requires a valid e-mail address in an input field, instead of paying him/her for X minutes to write out the JS and test it, I feel as if the extra cost of a license is worth the savings in development time. This is a poor example because nothing about the javascript is complicated to someone who is a website developer, but cfcalendar/cfchart/the new AJAX features surely save hours. The quality of the JS generated isn't poor; it may be more long winded than what you or me may write, but it's still only a few lines of code - and better yet, it works the same across all browsers (forgot to mention the time it takes to debug browser compatibility. CF++). If you know javascript it's easily readable - not sure what another reader was referring to.
"coldfusion tags embedded with HTML creates nasty, unmaintainable code..." - the point has already been belabored, but see fusebox, modalglue, etc. If you're a good programmer this isn't an issue - any moron can do the same with PHP, ASP or eRuby for that matter. And if it's the tag-based portion you don't like, have a look at CFSCRIPT where functions, loops, etc. can be written in a traditional C-based format.
The only negative I've come across with CF is that it because it does so much for you, it tends to discourage developers from learning other technologies that will enhance their career and overall programming ability. But if you're not serious about website development, who the hell cares. - Otto, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9Scorpio!
He'll sting you with his dreams of power and wealth.
Beware of Scorpio!
His twisted twin obsessions are his plot to rule the world and his employees' health.
He'll welcome you into his lair, like the nobleman welcomes his guest.
With free dental care and a stock plan that helps you invest!
But beware of his generous pensions, plus three weeks paid vacation each year.
And on Fridays the lunchroom serves hot dogs and burgers and beer!
He loves German beer! - WarLooch, on 10/11/2007, -6/+11This is so exciting. The new built-in AJAX features look so awesome!
- locnguyen, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9Apparently a lot of important entities still buy Java platforms...
ASP is free? *chuckles* - bemenaker, on 10/11/2007, -9/+14Cold Fusion is still around? I thought that died off in the turn of the century. (Seriously, I'm not joking, nor trying to be insulting)
- tm8747a, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5@bradleyland1
"It seeks to simplify programming by mixing business and presentation logic into an HTML like tag soup"
Actually, it doesn't. Are you aware of Components? Or MVC frameworks like Mach-ii or Model-Glue? CF allows you to separate presentation and business logic just fine. Many of the design patterns used in other languages are applied to CF just fine. - Dyogenez, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4The whole "Myspace is extremely slow, or used to be before they switched to .NET" argument is really getting old. Not because of the argument itself, but because it's repeated over and over again with the same arrogance and misinformation. In 2005 Myspace started moving from CF5 (the 2001 version of CF) to BlueDragon.NET (another cfml engine that also allows for .NET objects -- consequently, CF8 also has this feature). Now when you think that in 2005 CF7 was out, Myspace was already 2 VERSIONS OF CF BEHIND, not to mention breaking into the Alexa top 500. Basically they were getting traffic that made Twitter look small and were going down because of it. All that using a framework that was regarded as old even at that time (Fusebox 3) on a server that was old (CF 5) and a programming design that was not designed to scale to the degree it did. Since it can scale this well on the lowest rung of development, that should really say something about how even worst case situations can be handled in CF.
- zirconx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Yes it runs with Apache or IIS and a few others. The development version also has a built in webserver so if you just want a simple setup on your local machine you do not need to install a separate webserver.
- 83457, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4CF Hosting is just web hosting with ColdFusion support. Since PHP is free as part of hosting packages that doesn't get the big push in marketing that CF in hosting does. CF capabilities are slightly more expensive in hosting since it isn't a free product.
- NickyBatts, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7hahaha... Amen brother.
CF developers are so rare, I haven't even had to get certified! - billybob476, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5@dyogenez:
True price is an issue. However with low-budget clients you'll usually be in a shared hosting environment. There is a lot of low cost CF hosting around. Just because you code in CFML doesn't mean you need to buy servers. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -6/+10Crushed by PHP? Why, because its free?
The price is so cheap if you, you know, make money. Its a great investment if you're a programmer that doesn't take eons to finish a project. $1000-5000 whoopdee doo.
If companies didn't try to undercut each other with 'we cut templates for $150!' and all kinds of ***** like that, you wouldn't have much problem buying software.
Do you use Photoshop and other Adobe apps? It all costs money. - cfjedimaster, on 10/11/2007, -5/+9Um, I recognize at least half the names above, and while they are all CF users, supporters, etc, they aren't working for Adobe. Neither do I.
- aparsons, on 10/11/2007, -4/+8Why do big businesses choose Coldfusion? Well, when you have mission-critical applications, you can call someone at 2AM when the application goes down and demand an engineer work with you until it is fixed.
If your PHP app suddenly crashes at 2AM, what are you going to do? Frantically post on PHP Forums and IRC. You pay for the support and accountability... - madrid, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Easier than Rails.
BTW, Adobe, where is Ben Forta and what have you done with his Jarmulke? - Scyth3, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5@annonimality
They outgrew their original infrastructure, and that's why the site 2 years ago was always spitting out error messages. It was a combination of scalability and stability. The original design of the code wasn't able to handle the amount of traffic thrown at it simply put (I believe it was fusebox'd). So, they're slowly converting the entire site to ASP to make use of certain [more efficient] functionalities available in that language, and also they've hired on a lot of the guys which built BlueDragon so that they can help optimize the site.
Put it this way, I knock ColdFusion all the time for it's lack of scalability and such -- however for what most of the web developers are doing, it's perfectly fine. I just prefer PHP/Java over it, since I have a strong C background. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Even when I sometimes contact hosting companies with PHP related issues, they don't even know. Its kind of a pain in the ass sometimes.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Does it matter? I think its a well known fact the myspace devs aren't worth a ***** to begin with.
- Dyogenez, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4@cbartlett
There are activerecord implementations for ColdFusion as well. To compare his example to Rails isn't a valid comparison, although I agree that adding that validation information in the view isn't a good idea. To be fair you could use an MVC framework for CF like Model-Glue which ties into Reactor (an activerecord implementation) for the M side of things. The result is a framework that allows you to scaffold with automated error messages based on your database metadata. In Reactor though, you wouldn't include the "validates_presence_of" equivalent, instead you'd mark that column as unique in your database and then Reactor would do that for you, so it's a slightly different approach. The length markup wouldn't be as sexy. I know the maxlength is grabbed from the database metadata for strings, but I'd have to check for the minlength and numerical min/maxes. (disclaimer: only looked into it, never used it in an application, not an expert).
That might be a better comparison. :) - 83457, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5I think 2001 was around the time they switched to a Java platform (from custom C++ engine) and got a big boost.
- madrid, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5CF developers are a bit zealous. I know, I'm one of them.
My heart lies with CF, but my mind belongs to PHP. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Aptana is sluggish for me, our designers hate GIMP for the same reason.
Linux, Apache, MySQL make a killer hosting platform.
But most of those can't be compared to what Coldfusion is other than PHP. There is something called smithproject.org that is a free representation of CF though I don't know how reliable it is to use. - frankspastic, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6I started out with PHP and took on this new Coldfusion job recently and I have to say all the basic functionality of Coldfusion is alright. However, when it comes to all the functionality that generates some really crappy Javascript on the fly that I can't understand, I choose to stay away.
- creole, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@jocknerd...According to ben forta (CF evengelist supreme), yes, you can run this side by side with CF7.
@danz740...what company do you work for? - Charlotte_Web, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5It was only two years ago that Adobe acquire Macromedia, and this looks to be a major upgrade to CF, so I wouldn't exactly say that development fell by the wayside.
I'm glad to see that Adobe is serious about keeping CF alive. - polyGone, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Will it run on an apache web server? or does it require it's own?
I noticed some hosts advertise CF Hosting....It made me wonder. - length, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I use the full Eclipse, CFEclipse plugin and Aptana Plugin - works like a dream - ok its a bit slow sometimes, but does everything I need and I havent touched DW for a year at least.
- jcyr, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6Great news and very solid beta release.
- Dyogenez, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5@Chewie67
I'd probably caution them about it too, but for a different reason. If someone comes to you wanting their database in MSSQL or Oracle for a local petshop website it's going to be overkill. ColdFusion wouldn't be overkill for this situation, but the price certainly would. For low budget clients you have to work with low budget languages; it's that simple. For higher budget ones you have a lot more tools to work with. ColdFusion won't always be the best of them for a given task; but it's most certainly in the mix and used at 75 out of the fortune 100 for just this reason. - cfjedimaster, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Blog spam? Biased? Yes, I like ColdFusion. Is that a sin then I would dig an important article on CF? Would it only be fair/not spam if a PHP person blogged it? I blog about CF because I like the language and I want to help others - so forgive me if I take offense to you calling this spam.
- billybob476, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4It does indeed support Apache. As it stands the only web server I haven't able to make it run on was Zeus.
- Chewie67, on 10/11/2007, -4/+7@kevin45 - "Do you use Photoshop and other Adobe apps? It all costs money."
You can't compare Photoshop with ColdFusion.
Photoshop is the best in class app for what it does. No other application is on par with Photoshop, so it justifies the cost.
We can debate whether ColdFusion is, or isn't on par with other web development platforms (LAMP, ASP.NET, JAVA, etc.), but one thing is for certain, it's more expensive than those others. Hell, you can get a brand new Dell server WITH Windows 2003 Web Editon or you favorite variant of Linux for less than the cost of ColdFusion alone.
People harp on ASP.NET because of the $350 cost of Windows Server 2003 Web Edition. This thing is $1,299 for the standard edition. Unless you're supporting a legacy ColdFusion app, I don't see the justification in the cost. - polyGone, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Nice. I had a feeling the hosts were trying to play on my stupidity of not knowing that by advertising it that way. thx guys...
- billybob476, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Wow Chewie, you must have read that article from earlier in the week. Coldfusion has been around for a reasonable amount of time and is here to stay.
- tm8747a, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Yeah, and CF has had CFQUERY for years, which is an infinitely easier way of running queries than what most other languages out there have. It's amazing how people just love to find one weakness, one problem, and make it seem as if the whole language sucks.
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