What is Digg?179 Comments
- Drgn547, on 11/24/2007, -1/+23011.) Can you finish our site without any content from us? No.
- UGM2099, on 11/24/2007, -0/+12911. Can we dangle the last payment over your head while we nit pick for months about things we should have thought of at the beginning of the project? NO!
- diggerphelps, on 11/24/2007, -0/+12211. Never do any kind of web design project for extended family members.
- Bahimiron, on 11/24/2007, -4/+12311. Don't put the porn site you designed on your non-porn resume.
- KnightMareInc, on 11/24/2007, -2/+8812. Dont take "shares" as payment
- fant0m, on 11/24/2007, -2/+76I can't say how many times I've had the "We don't know what we want on the site - that's your job as the designer. Here are some of our competitors - maybe you can find some information from all these sites and compile enough information into this site."
FALSE.
If I wanted to learn your profession inside and out, to provide great content, I wouldn't be studying, learning, and practicing web design. I would have your job. And by the looks of it, probably do a better job.
It is not the designer's job to find information, type it out, and have it make sense to make that company look smart. It is our job to present information given to us in a way that people can relate/interact with in a positive manner, thus, creating efficiency for the site.
Those people who want us to find information FOR their site really need to step on a nail. A rusty one. - xtc46, on 11/24/2007, -1/+50unless the company is named "google"
- condormcs, on 11/24/2007, -2/+44There's just one more change we'd like you to make....
- transfuse, on 11/24/2007, -0/+41No.
What this means is 'Can you show me a mockup of the site you're designing for us [so we can steal it without paying you, and then 'decline' your services]'. - ToastPop, on 04/17/2009, -3/+39Will you do this project for me for free? It'll look great on your resume! No.
- inactive, on 11/24/2007, -5/+37Non-porn resume?
- appletalk, on 11/24/2007, -1/+32Very good article. I kinda disagree with the IM one, but I do strongly agree with 10). Make sure they understand the code you're giving them can be reused, just like they're also benefiting from your past experience.
- VictoryGin, on 11/24/2007, -0/+29"ok, I've designed your site"
"...hrmm... it's just a text field, a few buttons, and our name..."
"yep."
That would have been a nice design job to take on - jessehadden, on 11/24/2007, -0/+28My favorite? When the client simultaneously sends the umpteenth email requesting certain things be 2 degrees greener and 1 pixel to the left, while in the same email, berating me for how long this web site thing is taking.
- CraigJ, on 11/24/2007, -0/+27I see a few of these differently, but other than that this is spot on.
1) Can you show me a mock-up to help us choose a designer/developer? - I charge for design and I always present a complete design before I implement all the code, etc. At that point, if they want to have their kid or someone else implement, that's fine. I have never lost a client once I've reached this stage.
3) Will you register and host my site? Yep, I prefer this actually. I charge $275 a year for maintenance and hosting (more depending on traffic), and the client has no access to the server at all, and I only host what I implement. I charge by the hour for services such as adding e-mail accounts, etc. The reason I like this is that the user can't screw anything up. I get less calls this way in the long run, plus the money from this subsidizes my other web sites and traffic. I've never had a problem with this.
4) Can you copy this site? No, but I will ask them what they like and don't like about a particular site and why, and how they think it fits their business. I work these concepts into the final design, but I never copy code or content.
9) Is there any way you could get this done tonight or this weekend? Depends on if they want to pay for it or not. If a client has a specific need and needs a rush job, I will do my best to accommodate, and charge accordingly. - mossblaser, on 11/24/2007, -0/+23Oh did you just send that message via digg? a website? oh, well, I thought you said web design was not needed?
- arobar, on 11/24/2007, -1/+24You sound like one of those clients these tips are meant to avoid.
- fant0m, on 11/24/2007, -0/+23Personally for #3 I include this in my "startup fee." I tell them that for $XXX.XX - (I have a standard startup price) I will get them set up with hosting, domain, and email address. I take what is needed for the hosting and domain, and put the rest into the account. I got the idea from a "Home Based Web Design" book that I picked up. At first it sounded shady, and I didn't want to charge people to set it up, because it's very simple - but at the same time, the demand is there, and people will pay for it - how much is up to you based on the amount of clients willing to work with you.
Just my .02 - z0mbie2099, on 11/24/2007, -3/+26I already made mistakes 1, 2, 3, 7, and 9 :[
Thanks for this though. - Charlotte_Web, on 11/24/2007, -0/+20Not arrogant; just experienced.
You definitely want to weed out the bad clients, because they will cost you a lot more than you'll make off of them. - boomybx, on 11/24/2007, -1/+21I may be freelancing soon and this kind of article is just what I need. Thanks for sharing your experience.
- inactive, on 11/24/2007, -1/+20DUGG THE ***** UP!!!!!!!!!!!!
***** make me waste 30+ hours on a single image until it looks as good as the silverlight.net images and then tell me to just copy the information from their crappy old site that hasn't been updated in years. - Rustbelt, on 11/24/2007, -1/+1911. If your client is just beginning to utilize the web, be upfront with them about requirements. Don't wait until the end of the project and complain that you weren't given enough detail about expected functionality leading to additional work. Learn to realize when you are the expert.
- AdmiralKarelia, on 11/24/2007, -2/+20"Hi, we'd like you to design a website for us."
"Alright, what's the website called."
"We'd like to call it 'Google.com'."
*click*... *dial-tone* - AxeSwinger, on 11/24/2007, -0/+16That's why you have a substantial completion clause in your contract. If the site is up and running error free that is substantial completionand final payment should be made. Generally substantial is 95% complete to estimate that figure look at total hours worked for the job.
- Philbert, on 11/24/2007, -0/+15"Don't do unpaid work for the chance to be paid -- this wouldn't fly in any other industry,"
I actually see this in the 3D industry all the time. I can't count the number of job offers I've had with "differed payment". They ask you to work on their independent film that's going to be a huge blockbuster (really, it is!) and you'll get paid when the ticket sales come pouring in. Right. The other favorite is when payment comes in the form of "I'll let you use it on your demo reel, it's great experience!". If I want to do something for my reel for free why do I need you? - wiifm69, on 11/24/2007, -1/+16which, of course, they won't
- epilonious, on 11/24/2007, -1/+16I always have a "business IM". IM accounts are free anyways, just don't sign in fter the project is done or when your off-call.
- kreatre2007, on 11/24/2007, -2/+16These are some great tips for any freelancer -- not just web design.
- ErikHK, on 11/25/2007, -0/+13Yes, all professionals have one non-porn and one porn resume.. It's standard procedure.
- voetsjoeba, on 11/24/2007, -0/+13Think of the exposure!
- fant0m, on 11/24/2007, -0/+12Yeah, I've been there too! I've created a "draft system" though. I tell the customer that they get 2 drafts. The first draft is the initial design and the elements discussed at the start of the project. After reviewing the 1st draft we make note of changes and/or errors that need to be corrected. Then I create the 2nd draft (fixed/edited 1st draft). Then I have the client sign off on that 2nd draft and after that I charge by the hour. Ordinarily I charge by the project - it's just my style. I know a lot of free lancers like to do it by the hour, but most of my clients come from other clients who liked my business. If I keep prices relatively low ($800 - $2000) I find that I get more business along with referrals. Working full time and going to school full time creates a damper on time spent on designing - and being 19, I need to maintain SOMEWHAT of a social life other than WoW haha
- VicTheKnife, on 11/24/2007, -2/+13Great article! I can't count the times I've been screwed...actually I can: 3.
- TheOneGreatX, on 11/24/2007, -1/+12unless. of course, they pay your normal rates.
- lwilson, on 11/24/2007, -0/+10I'm so sick of people who define anything web related as "not a real job." Just because I get to work at home at my leisure while you work at your factory boring ass job for 8-9 hrs straight doesn't make my work any less. I just know how to work smarter and enjoy my life, you lame.
- AdmiralKarelia, on 11/24/2007, -0/+10And where, pray tell, do you work, Dax?
- arobar, on 11/24/2007, -0/+10Says the guy who's browsing the web... Do you think those web sites you visit every day just appeared there on the web server?
- johneyoung, on 11/24/2007, -3/+12I think if the price is right, any one of those questions can be answered "yes."
- MrMcGuire, on 11/24/2007, -0/+9Watch out for #3. At the company I work for, we have a server that we host our clients sites and e-mails through. When we get a call, almost 100% of the time we say "We'll have our tech look into it, and then we'll get back to you." Sure enough, literally 99.9% the 'problem' is on the clients end, and it resolves itself within the hour. I try not to be too bitter about our clients because they pay the bills, but when that call comes, I definitely have pulled out the stopwatch as a gag more than once. hehe.
- GeorgeClayton, on 11/25/2007, -1/+10It's actually 1 non porn resume and two porn resumes (one for porn web-design, and the other for porn itself)
- arcooke, on 11/24/2007, -0/+9He occasionally runs errands for his mom and earns $10 / week allowance.
- topherbook, on 11/24/2007, -0/+8Just because a freelancer's policy is 50/50 or 33/33/34, that is NO indication of that person's financial stability. It's preference and precedent. You can also use the milestone method, but the freelancer may still be sitting at home starving and waiting for the next milestone to pass so he can eat a good meal. It's all a matter of the freelancer's preference and the needs of the client. Period.
- MikeonTV, on 11/24/2007, -4/+12Great list here. Do you think that every web designer can obey these rules? No
- AngelaQ, on 11/24/2007, -0/+8If you don't have a portfolio of samples you can show clients, you're not ready to call yourself a designer and sell your services. Even if it's just your own website - make it hot enough to impress potential clients with your own potential.
- arobar, on 11/24/2007, -0/+7The concern isn't getting them setup. Yes, companies will pay you to do this, and it's an easy buck to make. The concern is that you will now receive support phone calls at all hours because "the website doesn't work" or "Joe said he sent me an e-mail but I didn't get it". Meanwhile the issue lies with the host, who the customer SHOULD be calling for support. That startup fee is great, but it doesn't cover the hours you'll spend on the phone explaining that you don't actually host the site, someone else does, and that's who the customer needs to call for support.
- YojimboJango, on 11/25/2007, -0/+7This happens to every single coder ever. Not even just web design. Good coders just expect that the client is lying through their teeth when they tell you what they want.
"We just want a simple website that tells the kinds of things our company sells and a little about us."
This really means: "We'll need a total listing of every product we sell combined with a search feature to list them all out in every way we come up with from now till the project is finished. Then we'll need you to come in and take pictures of everything because we don't have time to and when we need to add new items and pictures we expect you to do that for free. Then we'll need you to keep updating our company information on the website and of course you'll have to do that for free too. Then we'll need you to find us a place to host the site and that should be included in what we said we would pay you, what you told Ted our manager that it wouldn't? Well Ted never told us and he didn't have the go ahead to make that call anyways. Oh and now that the project is 2 weeks late we've decided that we'll need an online store built into this. What? You won't do that for the $200 bucks we gave you? Well fine you're not getting paid till it's done, and we'll just hire someone else to finish this up since you won't." - Chongo, on 11/24/2007, -0/+6I agree with you. I recently switched to a Dedicated Virtual server. I now charge every new client $10 a month... which is VERY fair. I put the price for an entire year into the estimate and in the end it helps cover my own costs.
The main reason I want to host my clients sites is that in the past, I've created a site that was very PHP or database driven and when it came time to make it live, the clients current hosting plan didn't allow databases (or in one instance PHP!). If your testing platform is on the same hosting plan as your clients new site is, then you won't have to worry about incompatibilities. - thebrawl, on 11/25/2007, -0/+612. Can you make the web page look exactly like this Word document I made including every tasteless font and clip art picture?
- mayhemchaos, on 11/24/2007, -0/+5Great article. I think most of us have done all these. In fact I'm negotiating with a client that I worked on almost 4 years ago, and came back to me - but times have changed, prices went up, and he still thinks I'm that college kid who'll do his e-commerce site for $X amount - sorry. No more free work from me!
- xtc46, on 11/24/2007, -0/+5I agree. Or just build some templates. You need something to show clients, otherwise there is no proof you actually can code or design.
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