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- kenjura, on 10/12/2007, -1/+29*****, plain and simple.
If you're an American, you have no business complying with regimes which violate human rights and offend the concepts of freedom and justice.
Let me spell it out for the completely corrupt of this country, and those who would become them: ETHICS ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN MONEY.
There is no price on freedom. True justice is worth more than all the money in the world. If an individual, corporation, or government is willing to sell out inalienable human rights for money, that person is worthless, evil, and wrong. Period. - ontain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+25Google caves into the Chinese Government too.
otherwise they wouldn't be allow to operate (or be blocked by the Great Firewall) - Prysorra, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21Can someone tell me why it's OK for our companies in aiding oppression, but *not* our Government.
The U.S. government rightfully gets raked over for supporting various evil regimes - why is it OK for Google?
Do we not hold every citizen to the same standard? - ultrahombre, on 10/12/2007, -16/+35Get with the program people, This is why Google exists. Now the wife is getting a lawyer so he can say what? This giant company obeyed local laws. I dont think she has a case.
- jackhole, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21Interesting. So if I were to go to a place where it was customary and legal to, say, beat women, I should allow my wife to be beaten?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+23Just because Yahoo! is an American-based company, doesn't mean they're supposed to provide the same rights and services as American people do in China. With that said, I feel bad for that guy and I hope more people will use Torpark for these type of things.
- Corrosionx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Hiding behind "laws" is really moronic and cowardly. After all, it was illegal to hide a Jew in Germany in the 1930's.
- Liam76, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19She doesn't.
That would be like me suing a hotle chain in Saudi for them telling local police I was with an unmarried woman.
If you have a problem witht he way China works don't buy from them, but don't blame Yahoo for following the rules of the country they are in.
@ DAGONthehauge
It is only immoral if yahoo promised them privacy , which they don't in countries where they can't by law give that privacy. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Amazing how unsympathetic most people have been so far.
Pity.
While multiculturalism and tolerance is often a virtue, it does have its limits. In this case, I'd say Yahoo should either A) not offer its services in China B) Not have any offices in China, so when they tell the Chinese people no, they can be safe from persecution on their part. - DAGONthehauge, on 10/12/2007, -9/+21Quite immoral but true.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12Technically he broke the law and was thrown in jail, where he wrote Mein Kampf.
Now once in power, he never "broke the law" because he was the law.
Sort of like Hugo Chavez now with his new dictatorial powers.
Imagine the world if Adolf was admitted to art school and never got into politics... Hmmmm - clownguyx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I don't think the aim of the article was to make you hate Yahoo.
All I know is that in the US we have rapists that barely do half of the time that this guy in China got. - marby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Yahoo will not be allowed to operate in China if they do not provide this information to the Chinese authorities. However, it is immoral for them to do so. Companies are collections of people and people have an obligation to behave decently. The 20th Century was filled with avoidance of this truth by huge corporations. Apparently the 21st will be the same. Too bad. These companies like to pretend they are different from Halliburton and Honeywell and Enron. This behavior, motivated by greed, makes liars out of them. Google is a particularly egregious example because of their sanctimony about being an ethical company.
- acdcfanbill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I'm not quite sure how walking down the street with a beer is comparable to serving 10 years in prison for expressing views not in line with your current government, but if you could enlighten me as to how they relate, please do.
- MrFlesh, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Just because Yahoo was following the law doesn't make it right. Hitler never broke the law once did that make him right?
- Grimdotdotdot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I'd say that's a problem with both countries policies.
- orlyfactor, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12@jackhole
how about you just don't go there if you don't like the customs. simple. problem solved. - DreKor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11no, you should keep your wife out of that country.
Gee, I get burned when I touch the fire. I'm going to stick my hand in it anyway because I don't think fire should burn me. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Just closed my Yahoo account.
- Jelfish, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7There's no short "a" sound in Chinese. The vowels in pinyin (system of romanized spelling of Mandarin Chinese) are pronounced similarly to Latin, with the exception of "e," which sounds closer to "uh" in English. The "a" in "Wang" is pronounced the same as the "a" in "call" or "ball," which is why Wang sounds closer to "Wong" when said in Chinese.
- misfit410, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7I believe it's supposed to be spelled Huang, we just pronounce it Wang.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8Google is evil. :)
"My greatest trick has been to make people think I don't exist." - The Devil - Antialias, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7williamdyer,
If their servers were in the US, and they wanted to keep doing business, then yes, they would. The same thing applies to Yahoo in China. If they want to do business there, they have to follow the local laws. Yahoo isn't doing business over the net, they have offices and servers in China. - Liam76, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6@Jackhole
Beating your wife has nothing to do with this.
Yahoo offers a service needed in China.
In the US they can offer this service with anonymity, that is not legally possible in China. It isn't like yahoo is going out of its way and turning people in. They are obeying local laws.
If I was in Saudi and I was breaking the law by being in my hotel with an unmarried woman I would have no expectation of the hotel protecting me from the police if they wanted access to my room. I would not accuse the Hotel of being immoral or crushing my freedoms.
What that man did was a crime in that country. I don't agree with it, you don't agree with it, but yahoo had no obligation to try and cover for or protect that individual. - DreKor, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8What? No, I'm pretty sure Yahoo likes freedom of speech and democracy whole lot. This isn't 1958 and we now realize that communism and democracy aren't mutually exclusive. It is possible to do business under both models and make a lot of money. Yahoo is actually increasing the ability of the Chinese to communicate with eachother and with the rest of the world. It is incredibly foolish to think that Yahoo is going to single handedly enact the Bill of Rights with all first ammendment freedoms. I think we should apreciate what they ARE doing to make China a better place.
- LGgeek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@orlyfactor
so as long as oppression (and whatever else) doesn't happen where you are located it's OK ?
There is a poem by a German pastor about the rise of Nazi's and the lack of action by others:
(there are a couple of different versions)
First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me. - staxofmax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4So it's bad for the US to violate civil liberties in a (misguided) attempt in national security enforcement, but it's ok for corporations to aid a foreign government in violating civil liberties so said corporation can have access to larger markets and bigger profits?
- chall2001, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5It looks like she doesn't have a case but its quite sad.
I remember when the US government and most large US companies took pride in holding the moral high ground. It was the main reason much of the world looked up to us. I never thought in a million years I would hear the president of the United States reserve the right to torture. Once a line like that has been crossed, whats the big deal in handing over "criminals" to a communist hit squad? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The tree of liberty grows only when watered by the blood of tyrants... Hopefully the Chinese government will learn this soon, and the Chinese people will be free.
- etnu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Quit buying Chinese produced goods if you have a problem with the way that the Chinese government acts. Why in the ***** else do you think you can buy your stuff so cheap? Oppressive governments can allow all sorts of horribly evil ***** to happen, and you allow it every time you buy a pair of tube socks from wal-mart. Either stop complaining about China, or start doing something about it.
- azbmr, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Google and Yahoo ARE helping in China. Here are their two choices: 1. Block websites that the Chinese Government find's offensive or 2. don't go to China. With #2, there is no expansion of what Chinese can access. In the case of #1, Google and Yahoo only have to blacklist sites. Do you realize what an impossible model that is? If China had asked for Google and Yahoo to only whitelist the sites the Chinese Government wanted, then the censorship would actually be effective. Seriously, it's like a highschooler trying to get porn--blocking sites can't do the job.
- Prysorra, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@ liam76
How do you know? Do you even *know* how many people are in the laogai?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reeducation_through_labor - jackhole, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@liam76
Actually search results in the US are not anonymous, and like other forms of corporate data it must be archived for things like this:
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6028701.html You'll note that Yahoo! has a track record of bending in the breeze on stuff like this.
And my example of wife beating is perfectly relevant. He was exercising his natural rights as a person, and is now suffering 3,650 days of consecutive beatings because of it.
I am aware that Yahoo! and the bed and breakfast in Riyadh are not legally obligated to fight the good fight. But they are morally obligated, or rather the people therein are obligated. If laws were perfect nobody would ever need to change 'em, but they aren't and people do. You look at who is responsible for injustice in law and its two sets of people, the ones that make the law, and the ones that follow it, and I'm not talking about excessive parking fines here, I'm talking about inalienable rights ungranted and immutable under law. Yahoo! clearly feels the well-being of their shareholders is more important than the well-being of the rest of humanity, and so I clearly feel the need to point out that Yahoo! can suck it as far as one person is concerned.
EDIT: I see many people here DO own Yahoo! stock. Maybe one of you will tell me, is that the only way they pay their employees these days? - staxofmax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@monkeyrun
So China gets a free pass to commit evil acts because they have created laws allowing themselves to do so? By that rational it's ok for the US to deny people due-process because they have crafted laws eliminating that right. I hope most people don't believe a nation's government is the absolute authority on morality. - skilless, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5I currently pay an annual fee to maintain a Yahoo Mail Plus! account. That service will be cancelled immediately.
Too bad, since I was going to use Yahoo's new push services with my iPhone. Oh well. Evil is evil. - LGgeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3the issue isn't walking down the street with a beer or sticking your hand in the fire or any of the other idiotic things Ive read.
freedom of speech and freedom of thought and the right to express them are HUMAN rights that SUPERSEDE all laws and all governments. - rac3r5, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3something that comes to mind when I hear this....
King Baldwin IV: A King may move a man, a father may claim a son, but remember that even when those who move you be Kings, or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus". Or that, "Virtue was not convenient at the time". This will not suffice. Remember that. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3When buying anything, I do my best not to buy "Made in China"... but it's getting tougher and tougher...
- kinghowdy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't think the discussion on this should be limited to the likes of Google and Yahoo. The current Bush Administration claims they want to promote democracy and freedom throughout the world. If China has over 1 billion people wouldn't it make more sense to win the "hearts and minds" of a billion people then however many there are in Iraq. Why is China treated so much differently than Cuba? China's regime is far more oppressive the only difference is the Chinese have started to embrace a market economy. Should any U.S. companies being doing business in China? A good portion of the record trade surplus China is enjoying is flowing right back into the hands of a government which still does not allow some of the simplest forms of free speech.
- lnf69, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I think in this case, Yahoo! as a company is guilty of participating in immoral behavior, even if it's not illegal. From a legal stand point they are not acting criminally. But...
... I wonder if there is a way that Yahoo! users can influence Yahoo!'s policies. I'd prefer to hear a company like Yahoo! saying to the Chinese gov't something like: "When you guys become more democratic, we'll do business with you."
From a business point of view very few company's would take a stance like this without strong encouragement from the client base. - lnf69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Not if they want to do business in China. They have to open a Yahoo! China witch is subject to Chinese law and not USA.
- Prysorra, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"So gun comapnies are swimming in blood, then?
***** me, what about Ford and GM? Their products kill hundreds of thousands each year."
Uhh....you didn't complete the analogy. The gun company would have blood on it hands if it *turned in your name* to the government should it be oppressive.
Agreed on Ford though. Evil sonsabitches. - williamdyer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@liam
So because Yahoo has no offices in Latvia, they can't do business there? No Latvians buy ads, or use Yahoo auctions? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5If Dos Equis or Corona reported to the local authorities "Hey, this guy just drank 2 of our products and is now getting into a car... GET HIM!" then it would be the same as Yahoo telling China "Hey, this guy wants to vote for more than one party! GET HIM!"
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4
The tree of liberty grows only when watered by the blood of tyrants... Hopefully the Chinese government will learn this soon, and the Chinese people will be free. - pujolsthebeast, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Who cares if Yahoo services aren't allowed in China? It's their (Gov't's) fault/problem.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8Oh well, if Yahoo was doing business with a country that practiced cannibalism then who are they to say that murder for food isn't correct?
Sorry, but when you're turning people in for saying that they want a say in the government's role, and that person does jail time or is put to death (which China has done many times) then your company has blood on it's hands. - khattak, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The 21st century is, more so than the 20th century, all about 'corporations' and their role in changing the world. Read 'World is flat' ( http://www.thomaslfriedman.com/worldisflat.htm ). A war between Pakistan and India ( http://www.answers.com/topic/kargil-war ), that had a nuclear dimension, was diffused mostly by corporation lobbyist in Washington. The intention of the corporation at that moment in time was not human preservation but economic prosperity. We will witness more and more of this - better or worse. Corporations mold world politics and influence society.
- xipotec, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Now imagine that a real person actually provided proof of the "crime" this poor guy committed. Who are these people?
- MrFlesh, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yeah except I can say "Bush is a *****" In the U.S. with no fear of a prison sentance. In china you talk ***** on the state and you are put into a prison labor camp for the majority of the rest of your life.
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