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208 Comments
- Minarchian, on 05/10/2009, -4/+78FTA:
"Attaching the device was not a violation, he wrote, because Sveum's driveway is a public place."
This is what I have been arguing about for a long time. That it's a small step to say that private businesses are "public spaces", for things like telling people that they can't smoke in restaurants and bars etc, and saying that your private property is a "public space".
This Court needs to be bitch-slapped into compliance...with the BOR. - sjl127, on 05/10/2009, -7/+77The hijacked courts are giving police the "go-ahead" for more abuse of their power.
If I ever find something like this implanted on my car, I'm giving a bill to them for leasing space. - david286, on 05/10/2009, -3/+61How do they figure a driveway on private property is a public place and what's next?
- URnotheonly1, on 05/10/2009, -3/+40where do judges like this come from?
- AtanasNenov, on 05/10/2009, -4/+40and the funny thing is...every criminal worth their salt will have their cars screened for such devices and only innocent people will end up with their civil liberties stripped. fun.
- Minarchian, on 05/11/2009, -0/+33I'm thinking that maybe a bus load of people go over to that "judge's" house and have a picnic on his front yard.
It is, after all, a "public place". - Waiting2awake, on 05/11/2009, -0/+32This will continue to happen as long as you allow the powers that be to divide you with terms like liberals, conservatives, republicans, democrats, etc, etc, etc - they are all labels only intent to pigeon hold people into thinking it is an "us Vs them".
The American peoples' enemy isn't some poor desert people, nor is it democrats or republicans - it is politicians - ALL politicians. - david286, on 05/10/2009, -0/+27I vote pressing charges for vandalism!
- mjazzguitar, on 05/10/2009, -2/+29Is there a device you can buy that would let you know there is a device on your vehicle?
- demicritter, on 05/10/2009, -5/+32Of course the courts are going to defend "big brother." Big brother is an integral feeder element to their system. As long as the police are arresting people it affords the scummy trial lawyers with sustainable job security.
- turkeyssr, on 05/11/2009, -0/+23What needs to be done is to plant these devices on ALL of the Police cruisers and post the information 24 hours later. Then the data may be used to see how often they exceed the speed limit and I'm guessing by the trending, we could figure out when they were on/off duty and actually violating the law.
- Minarchian, on 05/10/2009, -0/+20HA!
Too funny!
And ya know, you may have a case too. - inactive, on 05/10/2009, -0/+20You hit the nail on the head.
- tonicboy, on 05/11/2009, -8/+28Right. Because it's liberals who pushed for the Patriot Act and who started warrantless wiretapping. Where will it end? I'm not sure but I sure as hell know where it started.
- Waiting2awake, on 05/11/2009, -1/+21Exactly - ohh, and don't think the authorities don't know that either. Which begs the question - why bother, unless it isn't the "criminals" they are after.
- ObeseSnake, on 05/11/2009, -0/+17Mirror on a stick?
- TheSwashbuckler, on 05/11/2009, -0/+17Someone needs to attach GPS units to the cars of the judges and publish everywhere they go on the web...
- Mike17102, on 05/11/2009, -0/+16Seems like you already lost your caps lock key in the great war.
- caif, on 05/10/2009, -1/+15I'll have to do all my skulking about in a borrowed car or on bicycle.
- a2fan, on 05/11/2009, -1/+15Well hell, let's just install GPS into every frickin' car as they come off the assembly line and save a lot of time... and why not a RFID tag for every baby as we're snipping the umbilical cord. </s>
- Christianptriot, on 05/10/2009, -21/+34Fast forward a couple steps in the ultra-liberal world of the Obama Administration - want to track a bunch of "right wing extremists?" Go to a full gospel or Pentecostal church and attach GPS tracking devices to every car.....or do the same at a gun show....OR VFW or American Legion pancake breakfast.
Where will it end? Read the Diary of Anne Frank and find out - and you better accumulate something other than pencils and pens and paper. - spurtle, on 05/11/2009, -1/+14So we can put these things on police cars, right?
- mithrasinvictus, on 05/11/2009, -0/+13They always come with a red blinking light. Just use a mirror on a stick. Or listen for the beep.
- darkhorse85, on 05/11/2009, -1/+13The police caught a stalker by stalking him with a satellite?
What if a regular citizen placed a tracker on another citizen. Stalking? Prison time? - RedHatMatt, on 05/11/2009, -0/+12So, now I can use this as precedent to attach GPS devices to police cars and track them in real time? According to this decision it would be completely legal to do so.
-Matt - xtreme571, on 05/11/2009, -0/+12then hack your car's navigation system to find their locations at all times knowing where exactly all the cops are, and do watever u want (speeding, donuts)without the fear of possibly hiding cops.
- DeusNova, on 05/11/2009, -6/+18I think this is a bad idea and and all...but how the ***** does this have to do with Obama? I think this has to do more with a retarded judge rather than Obama. It's at a state level, not federal level...someone should just take it to the supreme court. Obama had no say in electing the judge. Obama hasn't even appointed a supreme court judge. Digg me down all you want...
- migtex1234, on 05/10/2009, -9/+21O THUGS DO LOVE THIS ONE. ONE STEP CLOSER TO GESTAPO TACTICS. INCH BY INCH EVERYONE LOSING FREEDOM FOR THE "GOOD" OF THE STATE
NO ACCOUNTABALITY FOR POLICE OR THEIR "MISTAKES". TEARING UP THE CONSTITTION. POLICE TAKING THE EASY ROUTE WITHOUT CONTAINMENT.
SCARY. - Waiting2awake, on 05/11/2009, -3/+15So, is THIS enough for you Americans to start to see what is happening all around you? They aren't just thousands and millions of trees - it is a full fledged forest people.
- lohphat, on 05/11/2009, -0/+11If a driveway is public property, then if someone slips and falls the city should be liable for the injury claim.
- inactive, on 05/10/2009, -11/+22it's socialist philosophy people. private property becomes public, what's mine is yours. how does that make you feel? before you thought it was okay because what belonged to the rich RIGHTFULLY belonged to you, but when it happens to you, how do you feel?
- polyGone, on 05/11/2009, -0/+11Isn't the car private property, though?
- Black6x, on 05/11/2009, -6/+17Let me explain ho this works, and how a driveway is a public place, since this is exactly the same on the Federal level. The tracking device is similar to basic tracking, surveillance, and generally following someone around. For some place to be private, there has to be a reasonable expectation of privacy. Entrance, viewing or listening into these places will require warrants (e.g. for wire taps, bugging, etc.). Even then, there are limits (can't bug the bedroom unless you can show that it is where the crime is taking place).
Driveways are considered public because they are in full view of the public. A garage, however, is private. Also, the devices cannot be "installed" without a warrant. That is, the device must be removable, and cannot exist inside of the vehicle.
If they wanted to, they could put a tracking device on his briefcase, and track his movements outside. However, once he entered a private facility (work, home, etc.) they would not be allowed to track him, or (if they are unable to shut the device off) use that information as evidence.
For those of you screaming that this is new, it's not. It's old. Quite old. It's also not easy, reading and interpreting the information is time intensive, and if they want to get the information off of the device without alerting highly surveillance saavy criminals, they have to get withing line of sight of the car. - gm33, on 05/11/2009, -2/+12Wouldn't this be a vandalism or defacement crime by the police? What about something as trivial as a nuisance (the extra 'weight' of the device decreases gas mileage).
- tgfraser, on 05/11/2009, -0/+10This is serious bad news... How hard is it to get a search warrant? Why is does getting a search warrant hamper detective work? Everybody has a cell phone and can make a formal request online if they need too... WTF is going on out there!?! And you know Clarence, Scalia, Roberts and Alito will uphold this too...
- TViss, on 05/11/2009, -0/+10In response, all of the civilians of Wisconsin should put GPS's on all the cop cars, and constantly track the location of the police.
- BrewBeau, on 05/11/2009, -0/+10@td001
That's a good idea. Find the address of this judge and have people hang out on his driveway 24/7. - goffy59, on 05/11/2009, -0/+10Another place I wont be living.
- td001, on 05/11/2009, -0/+10Any other laws? um... how about trespassing!? So what you're saying is anyone can just come and loiter in any other persons private driveway because it is "public". Being outdoors does not necessarily mean a place is public.
Try going and camping out on one of those judges driveways, see how long it takes before you are bounced out of there on your ass with a trespassing charge. I dont know, sounds kinda shady to me. - Klingon00, on 05/11/2009, -0/+9Sure, someone can legally snap a photo, but this is a whole different ballpark. This is effectively wiretapping your vehicle. By this argument, the police can already tap all the phone conversations they want as long as they do it to the phone lines outside your house.
This is a slipery slope here where sensor technology is getting to the point where an entire house can be listened to from outside the house. Walls can be "seen through" to some extent with modern equipment, meaning positions of people in the house and even to some extent what activities they are up to can be recorded and the only way to avoid this is to build a thick bunker with buffer areas so sound vibrations aren't transferred.
Tell me, Is this really what the original laws intended by lawful search and seizure? At what point is it no longer the Government or the Public's business? At what point should the courts have a say on what is reasonable cause for search or is that irrelevant anymore because modern technology have made our laws "obsolete"? - sutherbj, on 05/11/2009, -3/+12Gah, living in Wisconsin we do a lot of things right (e.g. beer), but it's ***** like this that really saddens me.
- dynamojoe, on 05/11/2009, -0/+9Since it's now OK to plant trackers and get info that you could get by public means, feel free to attach a GPS tracker to your favorite police cruiser and report on their movements for a month or so. After all, the judge says you could follow them on the street or camp out on street corners and get the same information. (If you do this, you should have a friend follow you with a video camera so you can youtube the inevitable results.)
- lyonsban, on 05/11/2009, -0/+9I worked for a call center company which managed GPS devices for automobile companies. It did not take us long to figure out some -truly- hair raising things that someone with no morals could do with it. The opportunities for blackmail data mining alone were scary.
I don't know about you, but "moral" and "police" have never struck me as a common combination of words. - ninetwosix, on 05/11/2009, -0/+9This is a dangerous precedent that veers sharply away from the fundamental principles on which this country was founded, no matter how you slice it up. It's also going to be interesting to note if anyone decides this logic also applies to other technologies.
- Jade10145, on 05/11/2009, -2/+11I think you may be missing the point. This ruling gives law enforcement the right to track you with GPS with absolutely no oversight. Whether your a criminal or not they are able to put a GPS tracking device on your car. You don't see the potential for abuse here? Whether it be McDonalds or any other place, the police shouldn't have the right to track someone without a warrant for ANY reason in the first place!
- workaround4u, on 05/10/2009, -1/+10or "The First Circle" by Solszenitsyn.
- xtreme571, on 05/11/2009, -0/+9so i can come on ur driveway with a bunch of my buddies, sit around, bbq, and watever i feel like doing rite
- smotpoker, on 05/11/2009, -0/+9I'd stick it under a church van :D. After a few days they'd be like "damn, this guy sure goes to church a lot. He must be pretty stand-up after all. Let's go violate someone else's privacy for a while!"
- HseLoMein, on 05/11/2009, -4/+13"Police got a warrant to put a GPS on his car and secretly attached it while the vehicle was parked in Sveum's driveway"
There really isnt a case here, Because the Police went through the appropiate channels, it doesnt matter if a driveway is public area, the got a WARRANT - jaymzdean, on 05/11/2009, -0/+9Is the answer ditto if it's a private citizen, say, a jealous boyfriend, planting the device onto an automobile?
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