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Why can't you see how cynically we are manipulated?!
americangoy.blogspot.com — So why does American Enterprise Institute "scholar", Michael Ledeen, urge the United States to attack Iran and Syria NOW!? Clearly, America is stuck in Iraq and more wars, especially with Iran would be... insanity. Is he crazy, insane, mad, a nut job? Are all neocons crazy? What gives? I go looking for the answers in this article.
americangoy- 93 diggs
- digg it
- Erich100, on 05/07/2008, -12/+9Here's something interesting to go with this article.
http://digg.com/political_opinion/Who_Rules_Americ ...- yellowcakewalk, on 05/07/2008, -2/+9Excellent, thanks!
- americangoy, on 05/07/2008, -2/+10NO.
My reply is below.- yellowcakewalk, on 05/07/2008, -4/+10Thanks, on a more careful look, I see it's not at ALL excellent. Sorry.
- americangoy, on 05/07/2008, -2/+10NO.
- caferrell, on 05/08/2008, -1/+9Sorry I have the same bad as Yellowcake, I thought that the white supremicist ***** was something else. I wish that a digg could be changed like on reddit
- Erich100, on 05/08/2008, -2/+6I apologize to everyone. I didn't realize what the site was about and after rereading the article more closely, got the white supremest angle. I don't buy into any of that garbage. The Jew hating included. The Israeli lobby is another matter.
Again I apologize for my mistake. it will not happen again.- americangoy, on 05/14/2008, -1/+2okee dokee.
- yellowcakewalk, on 05/07/2008, -2/+9Excellent, thanks!
- americangoy, on 05/07/2008, -4/+21See, this is what I am afraid of...
I refuse to be linked to far right websites, any white-power or anti semitic websites.
I am in business, and, believe it or not, here it comes - most of my friends and co-workers ARE Jews. Jewish Americans. And a bunch of wonderful people they are.
I always try to make it a point on my blog to differentiate the neocon Jewish Americans with other American Jews, because (surprise?), most Jews do NOT support the pro Israel Lobby, at least not in all of its actions. And most Jews want the occupation to end, and most Jews want to negotiate with Hamas and others for a lasting, secure peace and safe Israel.
So, I have decided that in my next blog post, I will spotlight the American (and perhaps Israeli) pro peace, (pro sanity really) Jewish organizations and people. I already asked somebody for help in getting a list.
The neocons are marching in lockstep, they are 100% behind everything Israel does, and are shouting the loudest for America to attack Iran and Syria.
But the majority of Jews who are not in power are definitely NOT neocons, and are against the Iraq war, never mind attacking Iran and Syria.
Just like one cannot blame ordinary Americans for this government's actions (well, up to a point), one cannot blame ALL Jews for neocon American-Jewish excesses and actions.
So, next blog post from American Goy will be all about Jews, and will be 110% positive.
Otherwise, you could get the impression that ALL the Jews support the neocon insane policies, and that is NOT the case.
AG out for now.- kemp34, on 05/08/2008, -1/+6The key is looking at people as INDIVIDUALS and not as their race or creed. For some reason, that seems to be a hard thing for many people to do.
- yellowcakewalk, on 05/07/2008, -4/+17Apologies to everyone that I dugg that white supremecist website. I hadn't read the text of it. It was careless. My bad.
- americangoy, on 05/07/2008, -2/+13Happens.
You gave me a great idea for a new blog post though. - kemp34, on 05/08/2008, -1/+3Thank you for the apology and I appreciate it.
- americangoy, on 05/07/2008, -2/+13Happens.
- Carthagefield, on 05/08/2008, -1/+8That was a robustly constructed treatise AG, you connected the dots quite effectively. If I may be critical for a moment though, It seems to me that you are hesitant to align GWB with Neoconservatism. It is a minor nuance, but critical to a full appreciation of the subject.
FTA: "This is where our poor, deluded, retarded president "W" Bush got the idea that to combat terrorism, America must attack, take over and change Arab countries, and switch them from undemocratic regimes to American style democracies - which, coincidentally, would just happen to NOT hate Israel.
"Of course this whole thing does NOT make sense!
"Only somebody as retarded as "W" Bush could believe this ***** seriously AND allow these neo-cons this much power and to have so many positions filled in American government!"
A less discerning spectator could be forgiven for thinking that GW's only crime is to be the most incompetent, naive president in history for unwittingly allowing his own administration to be infiltrated and debased by an intellectual class of Jewish Zionists, merely through his own ignorance and stupidity. Are we to believe that Bush is nothing more than a simpleton and a stooge, led along a stray path by his Neocon puppet masters? If that is not your exact position, then forgive me for thinking that your interpretation is misleading.
My own inclination (despite the man continually proving himself to have the intelligence of a gibbon) is that GW is and was up to his eyeballs in this from the get-go. Allow me to qualify that first by conceding that documentary evidence of GW being a fully paid-up Neocon is rather thin on the ground. However, I consider the circumstantial evidence to be implacable. For instance, while GW was not himself a signatory of PNAC's 'statement of principles', a certain Mr. Jeb Bush did indeed countersign the paper. Further more, his political and personal ideologies prior to his election were certainly not impertinent to Neocon values, not least of all his well documented affinity with Zionism (THE central tenet of the Neocon ideology). George senior also set an excellent precedent by employing many of the prominent Neocons during his term in office, that would later find a nest in Junior's cabinet. After all said and done, if a bird looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck!
This does not detract however from your central argument that Neoconservatism is a wholly Jewish phenomenon. To the contrary, I have good reasons to believe that the Bush family tree contains extensive Jewish ancestry. That last outrageous speculation, I will acknowledge, is entirely beyond the scope of a factual analysis, but makes for a worthy addendum. Other than that, I agree entirely with your revisionist assessment. - americangoy, on 05/08/2008, -2/+9Carthagefield - I disagree completely and here's why.
Lets go point by point, I love me some good intelligent argument :-)
1) "My own inclination (despite the man continually proving himself to have the intelligence of a gibbon)"
Please, you are offending gibbons, they are very cute:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbon
2) "a certain Mr. Jeb Bush did indeed countersign the paper. Further more, his political and personal ideologies prior to his election"
Yup, this is called pandering - this is FLORIDA, where ALL the Jewish old folks seem to retire. I mean come on :-)
3) "affinity with Zionism (THE central tenet of the Neocon ideology)"
No disagreement there.
4) "George senior also set an excellent precedent by employing many of the prominent Neocons during his term in office"
Yes, but they never were let into the inner circle - they were on the fringes, but had no actual power to shape US policy in any way. "W" the retard let them in.
5) "This does not detract however from your central argument that Neoconservatism is a wholly Jewish phenomenon."
Well, not 100% Jewish, but ALL the leaders and major players ARE extreme right wing zionists (pro Israel). Somebody like Bolton is, for example, just an idiot with a large mustache :-)
6) "To the contrary, I have good reasons to believe that the Bush family tree contains extensive Jewish ancestry."
Doesn't move me - pure speculation. Links, proof please.
7) "Other than that, I agree entirely with your revisionist assessment."
Facts are NOT revisionist.
I figure that by now, the people who are interested in the REAL Iraq War 2 story have read Walt and Mearshimer "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" and know what's what.
Don't be offended, this is a friendly argument among us DIGG'ers :-)- andreegal, on 05/08/2008, -1/+2on point 4 - wouldn't that count? I mean.....if Bush dad let them in....you could argue that Bush son capitalize by giving them positions of power?
- Carthagefield, on 05/08/2008, -1/+21/ Yes, gibbons possess a certain simian charm. However, they lack the intellectual capacity to become "the leader of the free world".
2/ That's pretty weak. Are you insinuating that all Jewish geriatrics (in Florida at least) Are pro-Zionist? That would be polemic to your earlier argument that not all Jews are pro-Israel.
4/ How do you know for sure?
5/ I was careful not to say all neoconservatives are Jewish, only that Neoconservatism itself is a Jewish creation. Just as Communism is.
6/ As I have already said, my belief relies more on conjecture than concrete proof. For what it's worth though, here are my reasons:
i) I have acquired from GWB's Wikipedia stub, a PDF file containing a copy of his 'official' family tree. Having cross-referenced the names of his recent ancestors with various Jewish genealogy databases ('The Consolidated Jewish Surname Index' is worth mentioning), I have deduced that many of his ancestors had common Jewish first and last names. This does not prove much by itself, but merely adds colour to the overall pattern. The names then: Samuel Bush; Flora Sheldon; James Edgar Robinson; Lula Dell-Flickinger (Dell and Flickinger are very common Jewish surnames, Dell more so [Michael Dell of the DELL pc fame is Jewish]); Susan Shellman; Samual Howard Fay; Anne Brodnax; Sussan Lewis; Judith Newcomb; Hannah Child (VERY Jewish name); Abigail Breck; Cornelia Beckman; Alida Schuyler Von Rensselaer; Thomas Sweetman... The list goes on, and every Surname in the list that I have researched so far (including Bush, which incidently is believed to be an alteration of the German name Busch) can be found on the aforementioned CJSI website.
ii) Another of his ancestors, his namesake George Bush, was from 1831 to 1847, a Professor of Hebrew and Oriental Literature at what is now New York University. Once again only anecdotal evidence, but compelling none the less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bush_%28biblic ...
iii) His famous pilgrimage to the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem. Here he is at said 'Wailing Wall', sporting a very neat yarmulke.
http://www.abbc2.com/islam/english/jewishp/usa/bus ...
iv) His sister Dorothy is married to Robert Koch. Apparently he's RC. With a name like that though, I would say he's probably a marrano, but that's just my guess.
v) His family is from a long line of Bankers.
vi) The shape of his face, his flared nostrils and arched nose bridge, and his general complexion are characteristic of Semitic races.
Vii) He talks kinda funny /Joke
At the end of the day it is only my speculation. I leave it you to make your own judgements. I agree though, that there is no conclusive proof either way. Would be astonishing if true though, considering everything. Moving on...
7/ "re·vi·sion·ist
3. any advocate of doctrines, theories, or practices that depart from established authority or doctrine.
5. attempting to re-evaluate and restate the past based on newly acquired standards."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/revisionist ...
"Don't be offended, this is a friendly argument among us DIGG'ers :-)"
Couldn't agree more AG. Too many people that frequent this site can't handle rational discussion, present company excepted. I hope that anyone reading this doesn't get the wrong impression. To set the record straight, I am neither anti-Semitic or Racist is general. I just have an overly developed sense of self worth ;-) Wow, it's gone 6a.m. here in good old Blighty and I haven't been to bed yet. This is going to be a long day for me. :-|- americangoy, on 05/08/2008, -1/+3"2/ That's pretty weak. Are you insinuating that all Jewish geriatrics (in Florida at least) Are pro-Zionist? That would be polemic to your earlier argument that not all Jews are pro-Israel."
Well, this goes to my "Dual Loyalty" post.
http://americangoy.blogspot.com/2008/04/dual-loyal ...
I expect Mexican immigrants and their offspring to be pro-Mexico, and have a soft spot in their heart for Mexico. Same with Polish, Russian, Irish and every other immigrant group and their children.
However, defining what pro-another country actually is is the trick. Being pro Israel does not necessarily mean being for Likud, Netanyahu and pushing for USA to bomb Iran and Syria - not necessarily. Being pro-Israel can mean pushing for the USA to broker peace in the region.
So, for #2 - yes, I do not see the majority of American Jews to be anti-Israel - and there is nothing wrong with that. Hope I am clear on that.
"4/ How do you know for sure?"
Well, I read a lot on the subject. I could look for sources if you want?
"5/ I was careful not to say all neoconservatives are Jewish, only that Neoconservatism itself is a Jewish creation. Just as Communism is."
The leaders and major players of the neoconservative movement are overwhelmingly American Jews. Re: communism. The majority of EARLY Bolsheviks were Jewish, and communism attracted Jews, because one of its purposes was to eradicate nations and ethnicities - everybody is a communist, whether Russian, Ukrainian, Jewish, whatever. Very attractive to a minority in Russia which was persecuted. Now here comes my revisionist history: Stalin, ever paranoid, tried to eliminate (by killing) any organized group in the communist party that he did not have total control over. The purges, then, were partly designed to take out the well organized early bolshevik Jews - to kill them - as Stalin thought that they (among other political groups) were a danger to his dictatorship.
To those doubting - there are statistics that list that that a clear majority of EARLY communists were of Jewish origin. This is a historical fact, commonly known:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism#Jew ...
"Of the nine members of the Central Committee of the Bolshevik party in April 1917, three were of Jewish decent (Kamenev, Zinoviev and Sverdlov). Of the twelve committee members (Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Sverdlov, Yakovleva, Oppokov, Zinoviev, Kamenev) who, during a historic meeting on October 10, 1917, agreed for the necessity of armed revolution (leading to the October Revolution), six were Jewish (Zinoviev, Kamenev, Trotsky, Uritsky, Sverdlov, and Sokolnikov, although Kamenev and Zinoviev opposed the revolution).[9]
Out of Lenin's 15 Peoples' Commissars (Narkoms) in 1919, six were Jewish (Trotsky, Uritsky, Isaac Steinberg, I. A. Teodorovich, Semyon Dimanstein and Sokolnikov). Among the 23 Narkoms between 1923–1930, there were twelve Russians, five Jews, two Georgians (Stalin and Ordzhonikidze), one Pole, one Moldavian, one Latvian, and one Ukrainian."
Thank you, Wikipedia.
"i) I have acquired from GWB's Wikipedia stub, a PDF file containing a copy of his 'official' family tree. Having cross-referenced the names of his recent ancestors with various Jewish genealogy databases ('The Consolidated Jewish Surname Index' is worth mentioning), I have deduced that many of his ancestors had common Jewish first and last names."
Well, hmm. Does not PROVE anything. It is anecdotal evidence. If you can find bush's ancestors as being, say, members of B'nai Birith or as members of a synagogue, then you have hit jackpot. In my view, bush is not Jewish - the man is a moron, and I doubt any synagogue congregation would take him :-)
"v) His family is from a long line of Bankers.
vi) The shape of his face, his flared nostrils and arched nose bridge, and his general complexion are characteristic of Semitic races."
You are hitting clearly racist territory there, buddy. Just as there is no "American" racial type, so there is no "Jewish" racial type. Blacks, whites, olive complexion...
Finally, "1/ Yes, gibbons possess a certain simian charm. However, they lack the intellectual capacity to become "the leader of the free world"."
Obviously, you ARE wrong - apparently, not much "intellectual capacity" is needed in that job position :-)
And even more finally, "I just have an overly developed sense of self worth ;-)"
Buddy, you got NOTHING on my ego :-)- Carthagefield, on 05/08/2008, -0/+3"So, for #2 - yes, I do not see the majority of American Jews to be anti-Israel "
Blatant straw man there. I never suggested Floridian-Jews were prone to be anti-Israel. Your original argument was that Jeb Bush became a Neocon in order to impress the influential Floridian-Jewish electorate. I don't buy that at all. Firstly, Jewish constituents in Florida do not represent anywhere near a majority, and so to suggest that a Governor would change his entire political orientation to appease a minority group stretches credulity. Secondly, there are far simpler and less obscure ways to demonstrate one's allegiance to the Jewish cause than by signing up with an obscure conservative think-tank such as PNAC. Thirdly, to quote from Wikipedia: "In 1998, Bush defeated the Democratic opponent Lt. Governor Buddy MacKay by over 418,000 votes (2,191,105; 55.3% to 1,773,054; 44.7%) to become Governor of Florida, after courting the state's moderate voters and Hispanics." So his key demographical targets were "moderate voters" and Hispanics, not retired Jews. I'm sorry pal, but you are clutching at straws with this one.
""4/ How do you know for sure?"
"Well, I read a lot on the subject. I could look for sources if you want?"
That won't be necessary. I'll trust you're judgement on this one.
RE: communism.
"Zionism Versus Bolshevism: A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People.
"There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and In the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews, it is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Luna charski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd) or of Krassin or Radek — all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing."
Sir Winston Churchill,
Published by the Illustrated Sunday Herald (London), February 8, 1920.
Interestingly, it later transpired that even Lenin had Jewish ancestry, though Churchill was not to know this at the time.
This legacy continues right up to the present day. In post Soviet Russia, a huge proportion of the oligarchs (completely disproportional to populace ratios) who inherited Russia's state companies after the demise of communism are in fact Jewish. I have no underlying agenda here, I'm just stating facts.
“You are hitting clearly racist territory there, buddy. Just as there is no "American" racial type, so there is no "Jewish" racial type. Blacks, whites, olive complexion... “
No way, you're completely off-target there. Firstly, nowhere have I used derogatory words or phrases in relation to any race, creed or colour. If I had said for instance: ALL Jews have large noses, that would be racist. Stating that these features are characteristic of a certain group of races is completely with merit, so how can it be racist? By that rationale, saying that brown skin is common to Pakistanis would also be racist. It isn't though, and neither were my earlier statements. Beyond this silliness, I would be interested to hear your reflections on the information I provided. What do you make of the Wailing Wall picture? I find it completely baffling as to why a supposed Christian Methodist would do such a thing. Very odd. - americangoy, on 05/08/2008, -0/+3"
"So, for #2 - yes, I do not see the majority of American Jews to be anti-Israel "
Blatant straw man there. I never suggested Floridian-Jews were prone to be anti-Israel. Your original argument was that Jeb Bush became a Neocon in order to impress the influential Floridian-Jewish electorate. I don't buy that at all. Firstly, Jewish constituents in Florida do not represent anywhere near a majority, and so to suggest that a Governor would change his entire political orientation to appease a minority group stretches credulity. Secondly, there are far simpler and less obscure ways to demonstrate one's allegiance to the Jewish cause than by signing up with an obscure conservative think-tank such as PNAC.
"
Hmmm.
You might have something there.
From Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_A ...
"William Rivers Pitt has asserted that Jeb's actions in the election fraud were done deliberately so that his fellow PNAC members would be assured the high-power posts in the Federal government that they received upon Bush and Cheney taking office[70]. Bernard Weiner noted that PNAC expected victory for its candidate, Cheney, in the 2000 election, and hence penned Rebuilding America’s Defenses just two months before the election[71]. This coincidence was also noticed by Steve Brouwer, who further claims that the organization’s very name (coined in 1997) was anticipatory of political takeover in 2000, right at the start of the new century [72]."
That last sentence, frankly, scares me.
I refused to be drawn into a trap of calling Douglas Feith stupid, as so many generals and pundits have called him. The man, a neocon, a pro Israeli, Zionist Jew, was a Department of Defense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Feith
"Feith wasn't somebody we enjoyed working with, and to go much further than that would probably not be a good thing. To be honest, we blew him off lots of times. Told the secretary that he's full of baloney, his people working for him are full of baloney. It was a real distraction for us, because he was the number three guy in the Department of Defense."
Douglas Feith was the number 3 guy in the WHOLE American Department of Defense.
"During his time in the Pentagon in the Reagan administration, Feith was instrumental in getting the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Weinberger and Shultz all to recommend (successfully) to the President not to ratify changes to the Geneva Conventions. The changes, known as Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions, would have allowed non-state militants to be treated as combatants and prisoners of war even if they had engaged in practices that endangered non-combatants or otherwise violated the laws of war. Reagan informed the Senate in 1987 that he would not ratify Protocol I."
So it was HE that made the obscure unlawful combattants law that we are using now.
"Feith was retained as a lobbyist by the Turkish government."
Turkey and Israel are allies, and Israel does a lot of cooperation with Turkey in intelligence matters and supports that country politically.
So, I guess my point is - since I do not buy the theory that "Douglas Feith is the stupidest mo-fo out there!" (actual words of Powell, I believe), then perhaps "W" is not that stupid either.
But... perhaps not.
I still lean to the conclusion that "W" IS as dumb as he seems, but perhaps the family as a whole is not. After all, Bush Sr. was a Congressman, an American president AND head of the CIA...
The bush's are definitely plugged in, even if "W" is not the sharpest tool in the shed... - Carthagefield, on 05/08/2008, -0/+3"I still lean to the conclusion that "W" IS as dumb as he seems, but perhaps the family as a whole is not. After all, Bush Sr. was a Congressman, an American president AND head of the CIA...
"The bush's are definitely plugged in, even if "W" is not the sharpest tool in the shed..."
Hit the proverbial nail on the head there, AG. Let us *imagine* for a moment, that 9/11 was perpetrated not by Islamic terrorists, but by a cabal of international Jewish-Zionist organisations, including PNAC (being the main figurehead in the US). To commandeer four commercial jets and fly them into targets is one thing. But to get NORAD to stand down while it happens would require high ranking insiders in key governmental positions. Getting their own men, Bush and Cheney, elected in 2000 was the key to the whole operation, allowing them to infiltrate the rank and file of any federal institution they see fit. This would of course require the President's full cooperation and knowledge of the plan, for it is he who must actually appoint these agents. Who better than a member of the Bush family then, if unquestioning cooperation and discretion is of paramount importance? That is, electability is also a key factor, which would make a Bush the most obvious choice.
I would like to quote another extract from that essay by Sir Winston if I may. Though it may be of another eon, and about a country far removed from the US of today, I can't help but feel a sense of history repeating itself.
"International Jews"
"In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."
That last sentence, resonates as the most pertinent to today's America, I feel. This is not being anti-Semitic, it is being political. Never forget that.
- Carthagefield, on 05/08/2008, -0/+3"So, for #2 - yes, I do not see the majority of American Jews to be anti-Israel "
- americangoy, on 05/08/2008, -0/+2"I would be interested to hear your reflections on the information I provided. What do you make of the Wailing Wall picture? I find it completely baffling as to why a supposed Christian Methodist would do such a thing. Very odd."
Pandering to the Lobby and its power and money.
http://americangoy.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-is-mcc ...
See how powerful the influence of the pro Israel Lobby is in America?
Can you imagine another countrys non-Jewish president or prime minister (or any politician) wearing a yarmulke and going to the Wailing Wall in Israel.
But Americans take it as if it was the most normal thing in the world...- Carthagefield, on 05/08/2008, -0/+3"Pandering to the Lobby and its power and money."
Yes, that would be a realistic scenario. I still have my suspicions however, that it was for an altogether more fundamental reason. ;-)
"Can you imagine another country's non-Jewish president or prime minister (or any politician) wearing a yarmulke and going to the Wailing Wall in Israel."
Well, I believe that this took place in 1998, two years before he got the keys to the big house. I see your point though, having powerful friends in politics is almost never a bad thing.
- Carthagefield, on 05/08/2008, -0/+3"Pandering to the Lobby and its power and money."
- americangoy, on 05/08/2008, -1/+3"2/ That's pretty weak. Are you insinuating that all Jewish geriatrics (in Florida at least) Are pro-Zionist? That would be polemic to your earlier argument that not all Jews are pro-Israel."
- yellowcakewalk, on 05/08/2008, -1/+3AG, just to add to your item above
The struggle between the old guard cons ( think James Baker, Bush Sr, Frank Carlucci, etc ) are mainly interested in making or stealing money whereas the neocons ( think Bolton, Wolfie, Feith, Wurmser, etc ) are ideologues who are indeed mostly Zionists. Sometimes the interests of these two groups intersect, sometimes they collide. Greg Palast in his "Armed Madhouse" describes a situation where the interests collide. The old cons want to keep the price of oil high, to make money off the oil, so they want to keep Iraq's oil in the ground. The neocons wanted the oil pumped out like mad to depress oil prices and crush OPEC. - americangoy, on 05/08/2008, -1/+3Hi andreegal!
"on point 4 - wouldn't that count? I mean.....if Bush dad let them in....you could argue that Bush son capitalize by giving them positions of power?"
Maybe. But I do not deal with maybes.
Truthfully, I do not see how "W" capitalizes on all of this. Who knows what he was thinking - I am not a mind reader. However, I do observe bush's speeches, and the man comes across as a complete tool - an insult to people who truly are morons.
In my opinion, Bush Sr. kept the "crazies" (Powell's words, not mine) away, at arm's length, and "W" foolishly let them into the inner circle, the positions where they could truly influence events.
I think the neocons told him that scenario where USA invades Iraq, Iraqis welcome us as liberators, we then move onto Iran, then Syria, and we change the whole region from Arab undemocratic regimes into American versions of democracy, a sort of McArab democracy :-)
Now, anybody normal and sane would recognize that changing the whole Middle East from dictatorships and countries that hate or dislike America and Israel into democracies a la USA is.... insane. It can be tried, but the project is clearly for generations, for 100's of years. Diplomacy, a la Jimmy Carter is the way to go, and slow gains are great victories.
"W" Bush believed that he was the one, the greatest president in American history, who could accomplish this goal militarily - changing the whole Middle East into American democracies. He, the retard, REALLY believed that bullsh*t, all the stuff the neocons whispered into his ear. He believed that changing the whole Middle East militarily, Iran, Syria, Iraq, from dictatorships into America style democracies was possible, and he truly believed that this was his plan.
You see, if Iran, Iraq and Syria became democratic then of course they would LOVE the USA and not support nasty terrorism anymore. Clearly, you have to be a moron to believe that but hey, we are dealing with "W" here.
I personally believe that the neocons kept that belief of his alive, in order for him to invade Iraq, and then Iran and Syria. However, in their version of the plan, they could care less about democracy in ME, what they wanted was to eliminate Iraq, Iran and Syria as a military threat to Israel. If somehow a miracle happens and the plan REALLY works, and Iraqis, Iranians and Syrians start to love American troops and turn into McDonald's eating, Coca Cola drinking, Wrigley gum chewing people who adore USA and love Israel... well, OK, miracles do happen!
But now, because "W" era is ending, the idiot presidency is coming to an end, the neocons are getting desperate and all pretense about changing the region's countries into democracies is gone. Just gone. Now it is all about "We have to bomb Iran before "W", the retard, is gone and somebody not retarded assumes US presidency."
That is my view. - americangoy, on 05/08/2008, -1/+4Somebody shout out this Justin Raimondo article:
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=8428
and heck ,this one too:
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/ - SuperMoses, on 05/10/2008, -1/+3"Experts" from the AEI are always invited when it comes to talk about Iran. I remember several months back CNN was initially going to air a hit-piece on Iran claiming they had nuclear weapons, etc... they had to drop it because the NIE reports came out stating the exact opposite a few days before it was to air. What was the original name of the CNN special report? "We Were Warned — Iran Goes Nuclear"
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117977083.html?c ...
Well, they still ended up showing the same special report but re-edited and renamed to tone down the rhetoric. I watched the revised special report and low and behold it was a bunch of AEI "experts" telling us how there's a high probability that Iran has nuclear weapons.
Of course we're being manipulated.
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