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509 Comments
- ThsGuyRightHere, on 07/02/2009, -29/+153I'm hardly sympathizing with the tea parties, but they can't exactly help who shows up to their event that's open to the public. However the people organizing and attending these events should take the hint that many members of the audience they're appealing to have embraced the crazy.
- kemp34, on 07/02/2009, -49/+164The true leaders of the real liberty and constitutional limited government movement in America (of which the Tea Party events piggy backed off the original idea) are INDIVIDUALISTS and PEACE LOVERS who abhor collectivism and aggression of all forms (by any individual or group). Although it may be true that various ignorant collectivist groups may try to mislead rightfully disaffected protesters of increasing government plunder and unconstitutional activity, these groups are not in any way representative of mainstream liberty-minded thought.
While certain groups will undoubtedly try to smear the overall liberty movement by attempting to associate that movement with the above-mentioned knuckle heads, the reality is, this is a lame brained strawman tactic used to try to diffuse the righteous causes held by those who simply want respect of their self-ownership and control of their own life, liberty and righteous pursuits. - inactive, on 07/02/2009, -32/+99The ADL conducts extensive surveillance on individuals and groups across the political spectrum.
On the left, Noam Chomsky decried the ADL's "Stalinist-style mentality and behavior" after a detailed 150-page report on his activities was leaked to him by someone within the group.
On the right, Ron Paul has been a frequent ADL target over the years. The organization has branded Paul a "far-right conservative" who holds "extremist" views on taxes. The "Modern Militia Movement" report, which was issued by Missouri officials earlier this year and subsequently retracted following extensive criticism, was written with the assistance of the ADL. The report listed support for Ron Paul's third-party campaign and membership in Paul's Campaign for Liberty as signs of involvement in the right-wing militia movement.
Not all of the ADL's information gathering is done legally. In 1993, San Francisco's district attorney accused the ADL of conducting a national "spy network" after a raid on the organization's SF offices uncovered intelligence materials [including stolen confidential police documents containing personal information] on 9,876 individuals and more than 950 groups.
http://digg.com/d1moTj - michelsonmorley, on 07/03/2009, -19/+58I'll be going to the Tea Party in my area. They will have an open mic. I'm going to go up and talk about the most important policies that I would like to see changed. For starters, I'm going to discuss auditing the Federal Reserve and why it's so important.
- SickMonkey, on 07/03/2009, -6/+38Why doesn't Ron Paul simply denounce these clowns and reject their support and racist ideology?
Their presence/participation instantly delegitimizes his credibility. - tzvika613, on 07/02/2009, -13/+44You are right. Time will tell how the leadership of the tea parties speak out against the extremists that seek to exploit their movement. If they do not consider the extremists to be part of the coalitions they are putting together they will clearly say so.
Sample announcement from the stage or podium: "It has come to our attention that ____________ are passing out literature. Just be advised that we repudiate them and that they are not welcome as a part of our coaliton." - Robjayne, on 07/02/2009, -19/+46Only mindless statists would your comment down. Very good description of C4L and the true tea baggers. I am in a parade on the 4th passing out C4L literature and a tea party in Rockford (Il) afterwards.
- akula89, on 07/03/2009, -11/+37you don't have to be a member of the C4L to agree with common sense. well said kemp34.
- inactive, on 07/03/2009, -20/+46Why does the ADL consider it to be “hate” when whites say they should “love their race” but not when members of “La Raza” (the race) do the same? Why isn’t it “hate” when Africans, Japanese, Chinese, Muslims, homosexuals, and Indians express concern about the future of people in their respective groups? Can someone provide for me the current definition of the word “hate”? Obviously, Websters dictionary’s entry for this word is completely outdated.
- prrandell, on 07/03/2009, -14/+40*****, I like how they tossed Ron Pauls name in there. I don't doubt there are some douchebags going to these rallys, just don't bring Dr. Paul into it like he's a stormfront *****.
- logosx1, on 07/03/2009, -26/+50Wow, they're pulling out all the stops to de-legitimize the tea-party phenomenon, which means that the sentinels of "respectable" discourse feel scared. Good.
- whiskeythief, on 07/03/2009, -5/+26"While certain groups will undoubtedly try to smear the overall liberty movement by attempting to associate that movement with the above-mentioned knuckle heads..."
Well said kemp34. We will be smeared as racists and fools by politicians, entertainers, and media ideologues. They do so at their own peril for we are many and they may only be fooling themselves this time. - wkenri, on 07/03/2009, -7/+27The ADL has no credibility. It considers anyone who doesn't agree with the zionist agenda of commiting genocide by exterminating Palestinians to be an anti-semite. In a funny way, and I don't mean humorous, it is as similar to the KKK as any other hate group. Unfortunately, due to the intense lobbying efforts of AIPAC, which border on extortion, and its influence in the media and in our government, it is much more influential and has become the most legitimized racist organization in the US.
- manova, on 07/03/2009, -8/+28This is why conservatives cannot have nice things.
- NorthMass, on 07/03/2009, -17/+36No, libertarians are about as far away from white supremacists as you can get. Libertarians support true freedom, white supremacists support government force to make a whole group of people have limited/no rights simply because of their race.
The only thing that makes white supremacists support libertarians and Ron Paul at times is the fact that all three support states rights. But white supremacists only support states rights because they view it as the easiest way to get their hate-filled agenda passed.
If the white supremacists thought they could get Jim Crow laws passed at the federal level, they would abandon Ron Paul and the libertarians and support liberal minded people who support a powerful federal government.
My point is that they are only using honest movements(Ron Paul revolution, libertarian movement, tea parties, etc.) to attempt to further their own hate-filled agenda. If they thought they could get their hate-filled agenda passed at the Federal level, you would be seeing the white supremacists show up at liberal rallies. - synapz, on 07/03/2009, -9/+28There is no such thing as coerced virtue, Patrick.
The government uses aggressive force to acquire and redistribute funds to others. Some, like Kemp, argue against that use of aggressive force. Others, like you, COMPLETELY IGNORE that argument and look only at the end of the sentence, "redistribute funds to others".
Unfortunately for you, morality is on the side of the peaceful when it tells us that "The ends do not justify the means." - magus_melchior, on 07/03/2009, -6/+24@joe122370: You do realize that the KKK was formed by Democratic Southerners?
Liberal != Democrat. I know, it hurts your brain to even consider that, but it's the truth. You know, the stuff Rush Limbaugh and his echo chamber of talk radio and Fox "News" love to hate. - govsucks, on 07/03/2009, -11/+28"Yes, it is quite righteous to be able to horde one's possessions"
But you think its moral to take someone's possessions? You have been completely brainwashed and will be a good little lemming for the state. So run along now, forget about yourself and children and hurry to give politicians the wealth you toil to create so they can "help" you. - Bartboy919, on 07/03/2009, -8/+25If you think Robert Byrd is a liberal, you're doing it wrong.
- ctishman, on 07/03/2009, -3/+19..."Jewess"? Are you kidding me? Get out.
- SickMonkey, on 07/03/2009, -13/+29Ron Paul also published more than a decade's worth of racist and conspiracy theory riddled newsletters, so does it surprise anyone why he would accept these donations? Die hard Ron Paul supporters will deny this to the end and bury this comment, but the letters in question are very well documented despite every possible effort to spin the truth by Paul and his supporters.
There is a fine line between idol worship and political belief, and unfortunately many Paul supporters simply refuse to accept the fact that their primary candidate of choice has serious character flaws that will forever prevent him from becoming a viable presidential candidate. While Paul has a done a lot to move the cause of libertarianism forward, the movement needs to find a new candidate if it ever wants to succeed and be taken seriously.
Personally, I have nothing against Libertarianism in general, I just think Paul is a bit of a nut job as proven by his writings and the crowds (white supremests) he has chosen hang out with in the past. Still, he has some important things to say despite this fact.
Ok, go ahead and bury me. - ZZeke, on 07/03/2009, -10/+26I used to think the ADL was at the very least well-intentioned until their wrongful, libelous attempt at attacking Gary Trudeau - who has never and will never use his internationally syndicated comic strip to promote hatred of any kind. Sorry ADL, I don't support or sympathize with hate groups, but I can't trust your assessment of anything after that ludicrous public display of rabid smears against a national icon who has never brought anything but humor and intelligent insight to the lives of millions of people the world over.
- tjeffersontruck, on 07/03/2009, -8/+24Some of the worst journalism I've ever come across. I hear the KKK was at the Jonas brothers show too.
- inactive, on 07/03/2009, -8/+24Patrick,
Can I have some of your possessions? If not, why? Are you hording them? - inactive, on 07/03/2009, -13/+28Well said, Kemp.
- blitzo999, on 07/03/2009, -19/+34What are you guys ***** stupid? This is just another piece of pure propaganda to defuse any form of a liberty movement.
- bardo, on 07/03/2009, -21/+36Most of the prison population, if they state a political affiliation, align themselves with the Democrat party. Apparently the Democrat party is for murdering thugs, rapists and thieves. Do you really want to be associated with that crowd? (sarcasm off.)
- cygnus2112, on 07/03/2009, -8/+23The sad fact is that supremacists have always tried to hide in the Libertarian movement. The fact they are not respected, endorsed or wanted in the Libertarian Party goes largely unnoticed.
I am a libertarian because of my political / social beliefs. The supremacists can go ***** themselves. The ADL can go ***** themselves too. - novenator, on 07/03/2009, -17/+32Revisionism fail.
Southern conservative Dems were a part of the KKK, but after the civil rights act was passed, these southern conservatives shifted to the GOP, thus the southern domination of that party. - alamedaman, on 07/03/2009, -5/+19buried for ADL... ZERO credibility with me, especially after their regional director says that "freedom of speech does not extend to racist groups"
http://regions.adl.org/plains-states/news/letter-t ... - novenator, on 07/03/2009, -22/+36Well, the StormFront crowd promises to be there: http://www.stormfront.org/forum/group.php?groupid= ...
- rizzo2008, on 07/03/2009, -3/+17And why are any of these things bad? So far all I saw was he promotes freedom for all Americans to choose how they live and what groups they join and maintain American sovereignty by closing the borders to illegals, expelling all illegal residents, and staying out of organizations that dictate what America must do (UN, Nato, NAFTA, etc).
- jesusfish, on 07/03/2009, -4/+18For those late to the game, having the government force everyone to pay for things that many of them don't want is now called "investment".
- MWeather, on 07/03/2009, -14/+28That's just silly. Most of the Jews in the ADL are white Americans of European origin.
- inactive, on 07/03/2009, -4/+17Thanks for reminding me why I should like Ron Paul!
- tzvika613, on 07/03/2009, -8/+21Supposedly he has but apparently not strongly enough.
- govsucks, on 07/03/2009, -16/+29"INDIVIDUALISTS and PEACE LOVERS who abhor collectivism and aggression of all forms (by any individual or group)."
Right on! Very well said.
You must be a nazi /s :D - wkenri, on 07/03/2009, -2/+15Amnesty accuses Israel of using human shields in Gaza
By Leigh Baldwin – 8 hours ago
JERUSALEM (AFP) — Amnesty International on Thursday accused Israeli forces of war crimes, saying they used children as human shields and conducted wanton attacks on civilians during their offensive in the Gaza Strip.
The London-based human rights group also accused Hamas of war crimes, but said it found no evidence that the Islamist rulers of Gaza used civilians as human shields during the 22-day offensive Israel launched on December 28. - BotchaMcCoola, on 07/03/2009, -6/+19Don't tell me Ron Paul puts US interests ahead of the Israel Lobby. What kind of US Politician would do such an unthinkable thing.
- inactive, on 07/03/2009, -7/+20It is really strange to see the ADL trying to associate libertarians like Ron Paul with nazi’s. Libertarians want minimal government and socialists want almost complete government control if I understand correctly. I don’t understand how you can mix those together.
- Erich100, on 07/03/2009, -2/+14Ron Paul is also the least likely to support a government crackdown of a Pro Black or Pro hispanic organization.
- labuzan, on 07/03/2009, -10/+22Objectivism:
1. Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.
2. Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses) is man’s only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.
3. Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.
4. The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man’s rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church. - NorthMass, on 07/03/2009, -4/+16So because someone is a member of the C4L they are a racist even though the organization is libertarian?
And how in the world does a libertarian organization have anything to do with racism? Libertarianism is about all individuals having the right to do whatever they want as long as they don't harm anyone else in the process. Notice how it is "all individuals", and not just "some".
Seriously, learn about what libertarianism actually is. You don't have to agree with it, but saying you are a racist for being one or imply that is ridiculous. - inactive, on 07/03/2009, -0/+12"Libertarians want minimal government and socialists want almost complete government control if I understand correctly. I don’t understand how you can mix those together."
Libertarians oppose forcing Americans to pay for foreign, special-interest wars. The ADL supports Jewish supremacy in the Middle East accomplished by military force. In order to shut Americans up, they select anyone who dissents and call him an "antisemite" and "Nazi."
ADL members are inbred and stupid, but effective. - tzvika613, on 07/03/2009, -4/+16Discriminate means to differentiate. Differentiation on the basis of political belief is not necessarily a bad thing. The left needs to differentiate itself from totalitarians such as communists. The same applies to the right needing to differentiate itself from racists and fascists.
- synapz, on 07/03/2009, -2/+14@Patrick:
"A tax form is not aggressive force. What country are you living in?"
This is true, a tax form is not aggressive force, it's a piece of paper. Brilliant observation, Einstein. The aggressive force behind taxation occurs when someone refuses to bow down to the threat of force that the state uses to get people to pay their taxes. Your attempt to ignore this fact only smacks of desperation to maintain your argument, not of any valid point.
@archiesteel:
Are you really trying to make the claim that people who are against aggressive force are somehow against community? How does that even connect?
Our objection is straightforward: Aggressive force and the threat thereof are never acceptable, no matter what ends you are working towards. Make a serious attempt to address this argument and you'll have an ear. Otherwise, we'll treat you as we would treat any other person who prefers force to peace: a thug. - inactive, on 07/03/2009, -6/+18The government doesn't use threat of incarceration for not paying your taxes?
You mention hoarding *posessions*, not merely income. that's why I don't want just your taxes, Patrick. I want some of your stuff, too. Can't I have it? Why not? Are you hoarding?
The Government doesn't "allow" you to do anything. Your rights are self-evident. All government can do is protect them or infringe upon them - celotil, on 07/03/2009, -3/+15Could someone please explain this whole USA, Israel, Jewish connection I keep seeing hinted at. I know I sound ignorant but being Australian I've never encountered this sort of thing here, and I'm having trouble figuring out the links between the three, especially whenever someone pulls the Anti-semite/Jewish conspiracy thing out of their arse for no apparent reason.
- inactive, on 07/03/2009, -9/+20No coercion involved with the Klan? Are you high?
- durruticolumn, on 09/18/2009, -4/+15
Kick them out. If you see them, tell them to leave. If they don't, either make them leave, or move your demonstration across the street. A lot of times the police will oblige if you ask them to move them across the street. Whatever you do, make them feel very, very unwelcome.
Worst case scenario, be prepared to stand and fight, because they don't take kindly to being called out for the white supremacist ***** they are.
Freedom of speech means being protected from arrest by the government. That's it, the right to freedom of speech does not govern how private citizens are expected to interact with each other. -
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