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402 Comments
- DeadElephantORG, on 02/07/2008, -11/+92TORTURE? ...what torture? The United States doesn't torture. Absolutely not. Ever. I promise. Trust me...
...
Come on now, folks, and say it with me:
"WAR CRIMES". - inactive, on 02/07/2008, -5/+39WTF?
So now they pretend it "might" be used in the future if Bush decides so.
Well, he already decided.
How long before these lying sacks of ***** are held accountable? Is it EVER going to happen? - Napoleone, on 02/07/2008, -9/+42And here I thought 9/11 happened on Bush's watch.
- mrcoderga, on 02/07/2008, -7/+39Torture is terror. Think about it.
- coit, on 02/07/2008, -0/+32*** A+++ *!*!* GREAT PRISONER *!*!*!*!* WILL WATERBOARD AGAIN *!*!*!!**!
- Terr01, on 02/07/2008, -3/+31I want to shut down a talking point before it starts: All we know is that the CIA admits they waterboarded three people. That does not mean that they did not do it to more people, nor does it mean it cannot have been carried out by the military or contractors.
- inactive, on 02/07/2008, -6/+22When you invaded Iraq it was a war crime, when you found out the attack wasn't at all justified in any way, it became a crime against humanity. That was about 4 years ago.
- PropCulture, on 02/07/2008, -4/+20The best reason not to torture these people (other than it's a war crime) is what will happen to United States soldiers when they are captured by the enemy.
- swrostmore, on 02/07/2008, -1/+15FROM THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED TO:
"In many cases, the harsh intelligence techniques led to questionable confessions and downright lies, say officers with firsthand knowledge of the program. That included statements that al Qaeda was building dirty bombs." - toddcat, on 02/07/2008, -3/+17Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
- WoollyMittens, on 02/07/2008, -2/+15Torture is only good for getting the confession you wrote for your victim.
- DarkprinceArmon, on 02/07/2008, -4/+17I heard about this on Keith Oberman last night, I liked his explanation to the government in the matter of if torture was effective.
"Say an episode of 24 is happening now, There is a nuke in a major city and its about to go off. You just happen to have one of the terrorist responsible for delivering the bomb in custody. He won't talk so you result to torture. 5 mins. later he's singing like a bird. He tells you the bomb is in L.A. Moments later the bomb goes of in New York City. You tortured him and got the wrong intel. Maybe he just a terrorist and doesn't care about dying. Now under what setting is torture effective again?" - phazon88, on 02/07/2008, -1/+13They're using torture when they have no idea whether the prisoner has committed any crimes at all. They use it to get a forced confession where the prisoner will admit to anything you say eventually just to get the torture to stop.
- wayzup, on 02/07/2008, -3/+15It doesn't matter what they say publicly. As long as Gitmo operates outside the jurisdiction of the US law, they're going to do whatever the hell they want and there's nothing anyone can really do about it. Eventually, these tortured prisoners may make it home and what do you think they're going to do? Try their best to live normal lives and forget about what was done to them? Or, just maybe, they'll know a friend of a friend who wants to set a few IEDs or bomb a US embassy or kidnap any Western civilian they can find.
Torture/Terror begets Torture/Terror....it's as simple as that. They practice eye-for-an-eye justice over there more than we do. We're asking for them to give us back what we give & we're supposed to be safer than pre-9/11?? Please........ - inactive, on 02/07/2008, -8/+20Bush's response to being told "The country is under attack" is to read a CHILDREN'S BOOK. Seems like you guys would want to change the subject. Bush probably pissed himself and was embarrassed to stand up.
- inactive, on 02/07/2008, -7/+18It doesn't.
- sodoh, on 02/07/2008, -3/+14So we can torture you then?
- toastgodsupreme, on 02/07/2008, -11/+22BORED!
So bored of this waterboarding *****. Seriously. They're going to do it no matter what the public outcry is over it. No one will be punished and those doing it will feel completely just in their using it.
Oh look, Britney Spears... *wanders off* - kcap122, on 02/07/2008, -2/+12You are perfect for working in this administration.
- inactive, on 02/07/2008, -1/+11"Suspected terrorist" does not necessarily mean "terrorist." Of course, Bush & Co. refuse to put these guys on trial.
- riverrunner, on 02/07/2008, -10/+20Its time to say no. If you are a CIA agent and Bush tells you to waterboard. Just say no.
- Groovemaster, on 02/07/2008, -4/+14That would be up to the American people, so unfortunately the answer is no, it's never going to happen.
America has 300,000,000 people, and they can't do anything to stop blatant, widespread corruption in their own government.
Patriots? No.
Pathetic? Yup. - jhails, on 02/07/2008, -0/+9No problem here. I think Dick Cheney and George W should be water boarded and it should be broadcast on live television as well as the internet.
- Waiting2awake, on 02/07/2008, -1/+10Do you not realize what you propose makes us the terrorists. That is why you, and those that share the ideology, are the real enemies. Not just to the States, but to civilization.
Grow up, and stop being so frightened. News flash - none of those bad people in Iraq have the ability to hurt Americans if Americans weren't in THEIR country. Leave and the problem solves itself minus all the "blowback" the US is in store for thanks to your brilliant ideology. - VinceNoir, on 02/07/2008, -1/+10When intellect or logic is lacking and you're scared, you use violence. When you're dealing with violent people like the Taliban or Al Queda, you DO NOT engage is mass warfare, otherwise you've fallen into their trap. This should never have become a war or occupation. We should have infiltrated the terrorists via the tactics of espionage and damaged them from within. That fact that we haven't done this, illustrates how much we lack in intellect. Violence is never the answer.
- nickiank, on 02/07/2008, -0/+9Here's what all the "who gives a ***** about the human rights of suspected terrorists" people don't get: torture does not guarantee reliable confessions.
Hey, I get it - you've bought the Little Green Nutsack line about how the Muslim hordes are going to come and toss the pseudo-Christian masses down the *****. Never mind that it's totally irrational and there will never ever be any such overthrow. Terrorists aren't aiming to take over the US, they're only looking to damage it and increase hysteria so people live in fear. This means a concentrated potshot every few years, and then a big drain of the target's resources to counter an invisible threat, so that day-to-day life is interrupted and the target society winds up being on a knife-edge. Look out, we've thrown ourselves in crazy debt and put the majority of our forces abroad! We might get ***** by a recession! We might get ***** by a localized attack since we haven't got ***** for military on the homefront! Everybody be afraid!
So. Folks who are smart enough to do all this have their minions get caught, and they face simulated drowning. "Ruh-roh! I feel like I'm going to die! Better blurt out something so they stop!" And then we get bad intel, because the asshats doing the torture are so convinced that their extremist methods produce results. And so it's divert & disperse. More resources drained, fear of the bogeyman attacking the homefront while we root around in empty caves goes up, and meanwhile you all rave and drool about how we're "winning".
Yeah. Living in irrational fear misplaced on a religion as opposed to a small, tightly-woven network of efficient fanatics? Engaging in inhumane practices that simultaneously also fail to get ***** done and are thus unjustifiable? Sounds like a whole hell of a lot of win to me. Eat a ***** dick. - ironhide, on 02/07/2008, -4/+13coward
- Nougat, on 02/07/2008, -2/+11The point is that many people will infer that since the CIA says they only waterboarded three people, that it is impossible that they are misrepresenting the truth. The whole truth could be that the CIA "outsourced" waterboarding to other agencies or civilian organizations, or that the CIA is "mistaken."
But, if you wanna give the CIA the benefit of the doubt, more power to you. Because, you know, they have such an honest track record.
http://digg.com/world_news/A_Timeline_of_CIA_Atroc ... - inactive, on 02/07/2008, -3/+12The "adults" in Republican party combat terrorism by reading My Pet Goat for 7 minutes after being told, "The country is under attack." Funny.
- wukillabee, on 02/07/2008, -7/+16ZOMG UR SO KEWL YOUR A WARRIOR OF TEH WAR ON TERRIRISM ARENT CHA?
- GeneralFailure0, on 02/07/2008, -1/+10That's an interesting point. I wonder if that makes a difference with groups like Al qaeda, though. We've seen them cut off the heads of innocents, and they see us as infidels already, and have attacked us at home. Maybe some of them might treat prisoners more fairly if they knew we were not torturing their own, but I think given the very loose organization of groups like Al qaeda there would still be many who would hurt or kill any prisoners.
- inactive, on 02/07/2008, -1/+10The reason not to torture people is because it is WRONG.
WTF is wrong with you people? You don't need a reason to NOT torture people. - inactive, on 02/07/2008, -4/+12The "ticking time bomb" scenario is a very lame argument.
- tdelet, on 02/07/2008, -0/+8Just because "they are evil" it doesn't make everything we do right.
- bowens44, on 02/07/2008, -5/+13hh... We had a Republican in the White House and a Republican controlled congress when we were attacked. Don't let reality sway your ridiculous opinion.
- boran, on 02/07/2008, -3/+11Looks like your government isnt even pretending anymore because they notice they can get away with it.
- notoneofus, on 02/07/2008, -3/+11And it's been handled in such an ADULT, responsible way thus far, hasn't it? Which network's reality do you subscribe to?
- bicyclethief, on 02/07/2008, -0/+8You have lost your moral way.
- TaniaDerveaux, on 02/07/2008, -1/+9I don't care what terrorists do, torture is never justified, it only thin out the line between terrorists and governments.
- inactive, on 02/07/2008, -4/+12I thought you types were driven by "gut feelings"
- Waiting2awake, on 02/07/2008, -1/+9Not a chance. It has just changed from a few hundred people disliking Americans to several Million and growing daily.
It hasn't saved anyones life - it has cost lives - it will cost many more lives. - VinceNoir, on 02/07/2008, -3/+10Not too bright are ya Tex? I take it you're the typical "macho" ***** who thinks he has life mastered. You're in for a surprise my friend... Life will beat you down and you will die alone and unloved. While that might seem a "gay" concern to you now. Just wait and see what life has in store for you. I don't envy you at all.
- alkajazz, on 02/07/2008, -0/+7This is why america is awesome?
- VinceNoir, on 02/07/2008, -2/+9Yes. I believe terrorist don't deserve worse because I don't think we should make them martyrs to their cause. I also don't believe that we should lower ourselves to their level. Use some intellect instead of force. That's the only way to keep the world sane. Violence is NOT a solution to any problem at all. People like you and the tehxen seem to ejaculate at the thought of violence. You're no different from the Taliban or Al Queda. Your day will come and you will realize just how wrong you were.
- Waiting2awake, on 02/07/2008, -2/+9Long live truthiness.
- bowens44, on 02/07/2008, -2/+9Spoken like a true right wing lunatic.....luckily , America has rejected you and everything that you believe. Now sit down, STFU and let your betters handle things.
- 11oops, on 02/07/2008, -0/+7They lied about ever waterboarding in the past, lied about the secret 'Camp 7' in Gitmo, lied about the secret prisons in Europe.... so why on earth would we believe their 'only three people' line now?
- jdenzer, on 02/07/2008, -4/+11So if another 9/11 type attack happens while a democrat in in office, they can blame Bush right?
B/c as you know Bush wanted Bin Laden 'Dead or Alive' and he has about 9 months to wrap it up.
Oh wait . . . We are going to have to blame Clinton.
Funny how we never 'blame' Reagan for Saddam Hussein.
I guess in another 10 years Clinton will be off the hook. - inactive, on 02/07/2008, -0/+7Former FBI agent, Ali Soufan, who reportedly had the best chance of foiling the 9/11 plot:
The U.S. is known to have used these sorts of tactics. You mention the C.I.A.'s impulse has been to deliver Al Qaeda suspects to foreign intelligence agencies that could torture them and extract information the C.I.A. thought it couldn't otherwise obtain. However, what this abuse has yielded from the top Al Qaeda lieutenants is questionable. And I think that's because it's untrustworthy information obtained under torture.
So the problem with torture isn't just that it's torture -- that it compromises America ethically, morally--but that torture doesn't always work.
It doesn't work. It often is misleading, as in the case of Ibn al-Sheikh al-Libi, an Al Qaeda lieutenant who was tortured into saying that Saddam Hussein worked with Al Qaeda and had weapons of mass destruction. That was the information that the U.S. was trying to get out of him, and he gave it to the interrogators under torture, and that became part of the rationale for the U.S. going to war with Iraq -- a disastrous consequence of choosing an unethical approach to gaining information."
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2006/07/10/060710 ... - Napoleone, on 02/07/2008, -8/+15They both ***** up, but the record indicates that Clinton tried. That's worth something.
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