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175 Comments
- newfrickinshow, on 10/12/2009, -9/+54Did anyone really think the insurance companies would lie back and just take this? Did anyone honestly think they'd put people over money? Business always opposes regulation no matter how good they might be, from healthcare to common sense stuff like a requirement business have an unobstructed fire exit; business always opposes new laws that effect them.
- elliotys, on 10/12/2009, -16/+53Its now a three way tie for the root of all evil. . .
Money=Religion=Health insurance industry - AngryDeuce, on 10/13/2009, -12/+44I'm not surprised in the slightest. Big business always does whatever it can to oppose anything that may cut into it's profit margins, regardless of the morality involved.
Just look at the Credit Card companies...they're falling over themselves raising rates and changing due dates before the Credit Card Act of 2009 goes into effect in February of next year. Expect some HUGE, exorbitant fees if you own any credit card by 02-21-2010.
Back on the subject, I seriously doubt the Insurance lobby will stop at anything to keep any real health care reform to go through. So far their only two major solutions, tort reform and allowing insurance across state lines, only serve to increase their profits even MORE, while the benefit to consumers is tenuous at best.
To be quite frank, I await the day when there is single payer, socialized medicine...and every one of these crooked companies are pulling an Enron. - medost, on 10/12/2009, -9/+35100% Correct. We should see their past behavior and calculate our self.
- goomba323, on 10/13/2009, -1/+18Proliance, you are a ***** dumbass. Look up that quote. It wasn't said by Barry Goldwater, but by Gerald Ford.
Want to see Barry Goldwater's best quote??
"On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."
Here's another good one:
"When you say "radical right" today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."
And finally:
"The big thing is to make this country, along with every other country in the world with a few exceptions, quit discriminating against people just because they're gay. You don't have to agree with it, but they have a constitutional right to be gay. And that's what brings me into it."
Yeah, he actually sounds like a TRUE conservative. He would NOT approve of the Republican Party as it is today. - JHW539, on 10/13/2009, -4/+21Make that a "multi-trillion dollar for profit health care industry is big enough to take away everything you have" and you have it nailed.
There has to be a balance to the overwhelming power of corporations. To be clear, we want powerful corporations, they are an incredible engine of innovation and production, but we also need a government to set rules for the market to keep their amoral asses in line. - shauncorleone, on 10/13/2009, -6/+21"Business always opposes regulation no matter how good they might be, from healthcare to common sense stuff like a requirement business have an unobstructed fire exit; business always opposes new laws that effect them."
You know absolutely nothing about large businesses. Large corporations often push for and even WRITE new legislation because they know smaller competitors cannot meet the demands set by the new laws. Why else would Walmart support employer insurance mandates? All the currently proposed healthcare legislation does is create a smokescreen that gives you the impression you're being helped. The same corporate interests will be heavily involved in government healthcare, and you will still have the absolute least amount of power and control when it comes to the care to which you have access. - beabis, on 10/13/2009, -5/+20Everyone loves to hate the insurance companies. Me too. But let's not forget the sleazy health care providers who punish anyone who would dare pay for health care out of their own pocket by charging them three times more than when an insurance company is paying the bill. Health care providers and insurance companies are endlessly portrayed as bitter enemies by the press. But these two so called enemies have teamed up to perpetuate the ever more costly positive feedback loop system they have created by punishing anyone who chooses to opt out.
You can get an estimate from your mechanic but you can't get one from your doctor. Unless maybe you are looking to get a boob job or LASIK. Why is it that such optional services are affordable and priced up front? It's time for consumers to hold sleazy health care providers accountable for their unethical pricing practices.
It is insane to think that shoveling endless countless billions of taxpayer dollars into the current corrupt system will reduce costs. And even more insane to think that the government could do it better. - DextramPennae, on 10/13/2009, -1/+14Not true.
Established companies often propose regulation because they know it is a barrier to entry for competition. - induren, on 10/13/2009, -1/+14If the White House is stupid enough to think that AHIP doesn't view them as a mortal enemy, and will not act accordingly, we as a nation are in gigantic trouble. It's war, and AHIP is out to kill.
The White House deserves everything they get until they learn their lesson. Unfortunately we the people suffer because of their unmitigated stupidity. - seltaeb4, on 10/13/2009, -8/+20Hey Norm,
My god how you sheeple will believe anything corporations tell you w/o a shred of real proof.
FTFY - martalli, on 10/13/2009, -2/+14The health insurance industry's administrative costs are so high and the industry so inefficient that it will lose a great deal as the feds take away many of their protections and create parallel systems. Current regulations protect the industry from suits based on coverage denials and droppping coverage. The industry basically sees this as a fight for its life.
- ChuckDees, on 10/13/2009, -5/+16They do not claim 30% profits. What they say is 20% overhead cost.
Or .20 of every dollar goes to running ads and paying to run the business.
Vs. 3% to 5% cost to run Medicare. The real profit for the health insurance companies comes from their stock prices.
That is why they deny coverage and cut benefits but raise prices.
To push the stock value up. - roddack, on 10/13/2009, -4/+14"So you think that money is the root of all evil? Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?" -Francisco d'Anconia.
- zoomaKabu, on 10/13/2009, -1/+11That one really pisses me off. The doctor or hospital "Charges" $500 for a test and then "accepts" $65 from the insurance company as full payment. But they won't let you just pay the $65. If they would take the insurance company rate from me then I would get insurance only for major medical emergencies and cover my own routine care. But most people don't want that. Most people would rather use their money to buy an iPhone, satellite dish tv, etc. than pay for their own ROUTINE care. Insurance is supposed to be for things you can't plan for. Using insurance to pay for your annual check-up is like buying an extended warranty. Yes it covers everything but it's ridiculously expensive. And that's the racket that the insurance companies are trying to keep going. The solution to high insurance premiums isn't for you and I to start paying those same high premiums for a bunch of people who don't have their own insurance. The solution is to reduce peoples reliance on insurance for everyday medical costs and force the insurers to be real INSURANCE companies and not sellers of expensive extended warranties.
- AzBats, on 10/13/2009, -4/+14Can you cite where this has actually happened in a country with democracy in place? Otherwise this is a straw-man argument.
- ChuckDees, on 10/13/2009, -7/+16Like the tea party folks think for themselves?
- BullBearMS, on 10/13/2009, -1/+10The bill that came out of the Senate Fiance Committee broke the deal the Dems had going with the Health Insurance companies.
The Democrats were supposed to kill the public option and force everyone to buy insurance under the threat of large penalties if you refused. The actual bill had much smaller penalties than agreed upon, so the insurance industry turned around and bitch slapped the Dems for it. - repins, on 10/13/2009, -8/+16why would the Insurance industry have to give the adminstration notice that they where releasing a report?
Also, does anyone know if the report is accurate? Is see a lot of whining about it, but not really much analysis of the contents of the report. - Murrabbit, on 10/13/2009, -17/+25Health insurance companies acting dishonestly and attempting to kill a more-efficient government system that focuses on delivering the most care for the least money vs. their focus of the least amount of care for the most money? You don't ***** say!
There's a lot of frightened executives out there. Some of them may even have to get REAL jobs. In this economy and with their skill sets, though it's hard to imagine that anyone would be willing to hire these experts at killing innocent civilians other than Backwater. - Californication, on 10/13/2009, -12/+20Ha ha: you said "more-efficient government system."
Never was there uttered a more oxymoronic statement. - ChuckDees, on 10/13/2009, -7/+15I don't think anyone is surprised by this move by the insurance industry.
Force all health insurance to be non profit and stop being wall street driven.
They care only about their shareholder not their customer.
Imagine if the FD or PD ran this model of business providing for the public's well being. - ianzu, on 10/13/2009, -4/+11Well, I decided years ago that, in my opinion, the health insurance industry needed to be dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up. Also, it wouldn't sadden me if certain people were executed (or at the very least beaten with a shovel). But there I am, thinking for myself.
The health insurance industry demonise themselves. Obama had nothing to do with it. - shaka999, on 10/13/2009, -2/+9I really wonder how anyone is surprised. If the Senate doesn't require everyone to be covered how can costs go down? I think people are common sense impaired.
Let's not require the healthy people get insurance but lets force the insurance companies to "cover" people who already require expensive treatment. Duh.... - foster5652, on 10/13/2009, -3/+10Military? I'm thinking the old 'give it to private industry' argument has failed as well. Don't get me wrong. I'm a believer in free markets. But, that is not what we have now. So many businesses have ended up being corrupt and inept as well that it's hard with a straight face to point to them as the 'be all and end all'.
- bjornski, on 10/13/2009, -0/+7The GOP needs more people like Goldwater and Buckley, and fewer people like Palin and Limbaugh.
- proliance, on 10/13/2009, -13/+20“Remember that a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have.”
Barry Goldwater - Paranor01, on 10/13/2009, -5/+12Wow, that was a spew of rhetoric and conjecture from someone who suggests others to "think for themselves". Why don't you take your own advice and lose the rhetoric so you can think for yourself clearer.
- Homerr, on 10/13/2009, -2/+8This is what we have:
patient <= health insurance => doctors/hostpitals
This is what we need:
patient <=> doctors/hospitals - shauncorleone, on 10/13/2009, -8/+14Did the power-grabbing, money-printing, lobbyist-loving, taxpayer-screwing federal government just play the victim card on itself?
- OriginalLucid1, on 10/13/2009, -9/+15It's easy to get sucker punched when you are a bunch of suckers.
- BullBearMS, on 10/13/2009, -1/+7Who is surprised that Congress would sell us out for money? Congress has gotten very good at creating legislation to suit their donors while tying to make it sound like they are still serving their constituents.
Watch this from Bill Maher: The Senate Finance Comittee Healthcare bill is a “watered down, ineffectual blowjob to the health insurance industry” because it only benefits them and not the consumers.
http://newsjunkiepost.com/2009/09/19/bill-maher-ba ...
Or just watch this eye opening report from Bill Moyers on PBS' Bill Moyers Journal and you might just learn something about who wrote the Senate Finance Committee bill:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10092009/watch2. ...
You can combine the two men and read what Moyers had to say on Maher's show:
As Bill Moyers recently said of the health care debate on Real Time with Bill Maher:
<quote>
I don’t think the problem is the Republicans. The problem is the Democratic Party.
And I think the reason for that is -- in the time since I was there, 40 years ago, the Democratic Party has become like the Republican Party, deeply influenced by corporate money.
In the last 30 years, money has flooded politics. Money has flowed in such a flood into both parties that the Democratic Party gets a lot of its support from the very interests that -- when the Republicans are in power -- financially support the Republicans.
You really have essentially -- except for the progressives on the left of the Democratic Party – you really have two corporate parties who in their own way and their own time are serving the interests of basically a narrow set of economic interests in the country -- who, as Glenn Greenwald, who is a great analyst and journalist, wrote just this week: these narrow interests seem to win, determine the outcomes, no matter how many Democrats are elected, no matter who has their hands on the levers of powers, these narrow interests determine the outcomes in Washington, even when they have to run roughshod over the interests of ordinary Americans. I’m sad to say that has happened to the Democratic Party.
<end quote> - Jektal, on 10/13/2009, -3/+9TFA points out a few areas where it's inaccurate.
- Jektal, on 10/13/2009, -5/+11Okay, show us the error of our ways. How is an insurance company motivated by anything other than maximizing profits?
- shaka999, on 10/13/2009, -2/+7Lying? The deal with the companies is that everyone would be forced to get insurance. The Senate has decided that they can't afford to mandate that but they still want to require the insurance companies to pay for treatment for anyone who shows up on their doorstep not matter how expensive their treatment will be. Sounds like the Senate has broke the promise.....
- afewbravemen, on 10/13/2009, -9/+14I hope Obama realises he cannot be a buddy to the insurance companies. Government needs to make the insurance companies earn their crust, licencing them too operate. Pull the plug if they do not come up too standard and then allow another group to carry out the same function. At the same time put the licences out for tender every term of office so that more competitive companies can try to offer more goods for your buck!
That way people get a service and a reasonable deal too. Your government working for you! - BlacklabelSAR, on 10/13/2009, -1/+6The White House isn't a profit-driven corporation, so there's a difference.
You are comparing a salesman to a customer. But good job defending lying. At least you don't claim to have any ethics or morality.
Very Corporate of you. - absurdist, on 10/13/2009, -1/+6Part 2 is over the top. But part 1 is something that needs to be done a hell of a lot more, and not just to the health insurance companies.
- Ferretman, on 10/13/2009, -2/+6That *is* actually pretty funny....
- drmangrum, on 10/13/2009, -6/+10I would put government at the top of the list. The White House is trying to come off as completely altruistic. The veritable White Knight charging to our rescue. If you believe that, then you deserve all that crap their about to ram down your throat.
People need to think long term. You NEED to look past the 10 years that are projected.
Think about this: When/if the bill goes into effect, they start collecting taxes almost immediately. The plan doesn't start to offer benefits until 2013. They say they'll actually lower the deficit with this plan over the next 10 years. WELL DUH! They're collecting a small buffer of cash before the plan even goes into effect. What happens when that starter cash is eaten up?
That's right kiddies, more deficit. - repins, on 10/13/2009, -3/+7jektal the article is not specific...sorry saying "it left out stuff" is not a proper analysis and rebuttal of an economic report. I will grant you a study done by the insurance industry about the insurance industry should be viewed with great skepticism. Show us the numbers, explain where the report is incorrect, stop complaining you did not see if before they released it.
- Dustin00, on 10/13/2009, -1/+5Yeah, launching a "report" right as the Senate is about to take a vote... they're as pure as snow.
- cyberclown, on 10/13/2009, -9/+13Did anyone expect anything else from an industry the government is trying to bring under control? I'm sure the mortgage industry doesn't like the new restrictions on it either even though it brings it under control.
- thomn8r, on 10/13/2009, -2/+6There's no such thing as a 'not-for-profit' insurance company. The profit ($income - $expenses) is converted into executive compensation.
- beefjerkey2, on 10/13/2009, -13/+17This just drives me crazy. Every study will exclude certain data. Even the CBO study that the White House and all of you sheep tout as gospel assumes that the physician fee fix will not happen and that the doctors serving Medicare will actually see a 25% pay cut next year. Hmmm that's NEVER happened and by not including it in the calculations removed HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars of cost from the bill. (just go ahead and check the CBO report (CBO.gov) if you are in doubt. That deficit reduction is a complete fabrication.
For those who are interested, the physician fee schedule was set during the Clinton years and the calculation calls for a slight pay cut for docs if their costs ever go above a certain growth rate that was set in the 90s. Guess what, it has gone above that rate each year for the past 10 or so. Every year (but one) Congress has voted to keep the docs whole. I am not saying that the docs should have gotten a pay cut, but it does show that these savings that this Bill is supposedly going to net in future years are UNLIKELY TO HAPPEN.
I happen to think that the media is killing this whole thing. Both sides have valid arguments. The insurance industry position is valid also and I just wish that we could have a rational discussion without completely dissing one side because they aren't going along with the White House.
By the way, there are a lot of points that the Democrats make that are complete lies also. Insurance companies DO NOT make 30% profits. It is more like 3-5% (check yahoo finance Aetna, Wellpoint, UnitedHealth, Coventry Health). - twomeyw23334, on 10/13/2009, -4/+8Well, if you look to the MA health insurance reform (which is very similar to the currently proposed reform) health care costs have increased over 20% per capita in a mere couple of years since its passing. The state now has some of the highest rates in the country and is expecting double digit (percentage wise) increases over the next year (as the costs are so out of control). The total cost of the plan has been over 30% more than they (Government officials) expected.
So that demonstrates two things government is good at, making horrible predictions about the cost of their plans and in a remarkably speedy manner causing prices to skyrocket. - foster5652, on 10/13/2009, -3/+7Speaking of Big Business, have you ever noticed the Chamber of Commerce seems to be just a Shill for big business? Yes, I know, they are an organization to support business. But, they often support them at the expense of everyone else. I'm not sure they ever support even sensible regulations. But I digress....Just curious about other's perception about this org.
- rascilon, on 10/13/2009, -0/+4They can't charge us more if we put them out of business.
- BlacklabelSAR, on 10/13/2009, -1/+5And why are the drug costs high? Far higher than in the rest of the world? Obviously so that the Pharma industry can rake in huge margins and profits.
This is about Corporatism. -
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