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571 Comments
- nihilville, on 01/22/2009, -12/+660This was incredibly illegal and I hope that those who authorized this crime are prosecuted to the fullest extent possible to discourage all other criminals who would defile the Constitution in their naked hunger for power.
- inactive, on 01/22/2009, -7/+512Not surprised.
- JenniferInMO, on 01/22/2009, -10/+455Is no one freaking out about the fact that our media was under complete surveillance? There is no question that our Fourth Estate is more like a broken down shack, but this is huge. How many potential whistle blowers were silenced, transferred, moved, fired or intimidated out of talking to the press? Given that the GOP owns talk radio, Faux News and has a strong influence on the rest of the MSM what happened when they learned of reporters working on stories unfavorable to the administration?
And of course, who else was being watched?
Nixon had nothing on the Bush/Cheney Administration. - normlsparky, on 01/22/2009, -4/+282Could one of the groups they were monitoring be politicians? It could be politically useful to have a file on each senator and representative with all of their dirty little secrets in it.
Republicans could be persuaded into extreme loyalty. Democrats could be quickly silenced. Both parties could be forced to support almost any legislation. I wonder what Pelosi and Conyers had in their file? - robertj15, on 01/22/2009, -7/+202More people like this need to come forward so we can start taking the steps necessary to getting Bush and Cheney on trial.
- inactive, on 01/22/2009, -15/+185Nope I'm really not that important, but hey thanks for trying to cheer me up....................
- mithrasinvictus, on 01/22/2009, -2/+131China and Russia have a lower percentage of their citizens incarcerated.
- alittlebrookie, on 01/22/2009, -10/+135A message to the Anti-American fascist scum at the NSA who are killing our country: ***** YOU *****
- wefarrell, on 01/22/2009, -4/+125So how does are we different from China or Soviet Russia?
- smotpoker, on 01/22/2009, -0/+103A lot of people suspect that is exactly the sort of stuff they were doing when the first warrantless wiretapping stuff came to light a few years ago
- shrewd1983, on 01/22/2009, -4/+101NSA is still doing this even with Obama in office.
- nihilville, on 01/22/2009, -3/+82Listen to the ***** interview, dimbulb... This was all done without even FISA approval, which said vote made kind of joke to obtain.
- kemp34, on 01/22/2009, -2/+71You are not an American. Anyone who would not be enraged about TOTAL COMMUNICATION SURVEILLANCE in the so-called "land of the free" is a ***** moron.
- JenniferInMO, on 01/22/2009, -2/+68If you won't read the article at least watch the video.
- MWeather, on 01/22/2009, -1/+65"The Ex Post Facto (basically Latin for "After the Fact") rule means that no one can be prosecuted for a crime that became illegal after they committed it."
The 4th amendment means you can't be spied on without probable cause. How has that worked out so far? - terrachronos, on 01/22/2009, -3/+61File this under NO *****
- gigamugged, on 01/22/2009, -1/+57This should well and truly destroy the "If you've got nothing to hide..." argument espoused by many Bush apologists for illegal wiretapping. Any power that a government has WILL be abused, which is why our founding documents are very careful to spell out exactly what those powers are.
- inactive, on 01/22/2009, -4/+60The NSA will be doing this no matter who is in office.
I think that's kind of what the NSA is all about. - jericko, on 01/22/2009, -5/+60I just spoke in a code Bush could not break while talking on the phone. Since he is gone, I will reveal my code.....I just used words that contained more then 4 letters.
- rmxz, on 01/22/2009, -2/+56You have to wonder how well some of these NSA employees did in the stock market -- with the communication of every CEO in the world, and virtually no oversight....
And considering that they were doing this wiretapping to begin with, I don't think their own sense of ethics would have restrained them. - Alheithinn, on 01/22/2009, -4/+58I agree with robertj. We have to confront the crimes of the previous administration and make it right not only with the American people but with the world, show them that we don't just talk the talk but we walk the walk and have the courage of our convictions. Otherwise it's empty verbiage.
- inactive, on 01/22/2009, -4/+57NSA = Gestapo!!!
- principle, on 01/22/2009, -1/+53They obviously spied on their family and friends too. And don’t forget, they also collect financial transactions.
- swrostmore, on 01/22/2009, -0/+50The FISA bill didn't "allow for the pardon" of anyone, it provided immunity from civil suits, not from criminal liability. Not saying it was a good bill, just that it doesn't say what you say it does.
- kemp34, on 01/22/2009, -1/+50How sick is it that people are not surprised that the NSA has basically performed TOTAL SURVEILLANCE on all communications for years? This total spying is the essence of anti-Americanism.
- bones09, on 01/22/2009, -5/+53There's a lot of NSA hate on here for the warrantless wiretap program. You should lay the blame at the foot of the person actually to blame: Cheney.
Yesterday there was an author on NPR who claimed the NSA sent their lawyers to the DOJ to obtain legal documents regarding the program because they thought it was illegal. Cheney's lawyer met them at the DOJ and said they did not have the right to look at the documents. Apparently this entire showdown eventually led to a confrontation where several officials threatened to resign because they thought the whole thing was illegal. Bush didn't find out about it until the last minute, and the author said that's about when he started to keep Cheney at arms length because he realized that Cheney was only presenting information that supported what he wanted to do.
I didn't catch the entire conversation, but it was very eye-opening. I wish I had heard the author's name.
I can't find any mention of the NSA confrontation at the DOJ through google (there is a lot of other information out there to sift through and I'm not going to spend all day looking), but I did find articles commenting that Cheney wanted the program to be larger than the NSA's lawyers would even approve. I also found one article that mentions the threats of resignation:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic ... - homer4199, on 01/22/2009, -1/+48Every time a tinfoil hat comment is made, a far right gets a hard on.
- mithrasinvictus, on 01/22/2009, -0/+46Vote for FISA or else....
- IMABBALLPLAYER, on 01/22/2009, -1/+45The NSA confiscated it.
- kemp34, on 01/22/2009, -0/+43The possibilities for evil people to use this total surveillance capability for nefarious means are ridiculous. This type of ***** needs to be ended immediately.
- inactive, on 01/22/2009, -3/+46Obama needs to reign in the NSA now.
- mithrasinvictus, on 01/22/2009, -4/+46Don't worry. It's all in the database, if something you legally do now gets made illegal in the future you might get your flag after all.
- StreetPreacher, on 01/22/2009, -1/+43The fact that anyone would deny this allegation, or even be surprised by it is testament to the stupidity of the American people at large. The Bush administration kept calling it the "Terrorist Surveillance Program" or some such b/c they wanted people to think that they were ONLY eavesdropping on suspected terrorists. Like they had all these guys sitting out in unmarked vans with headphones on like some cheesy Hollywood movie.
But in truth, automated systems listen in on EVERYONE, and then go back to analyze the stuff that sounds interesting. That's why this is such an egregious violation of Constitutional rights and due process. - kemp34, on 01/22/2009, -1/+40Oh it's illegal buddy.
- HumanNouveau, on 01/22/2009, -3/+40Even when it comes to the government, due process is required. The parties and agencies involved need to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Otherwise, we sacrifice one guarantee of civil liberty to protect another.
That said, I should think that, if there are more whistles to be blown we'll hear those now, and I want to hope that the new administration will have the clear opportunity to act on those, initiating investigation where indicated and prosecution where warranted. - Alderon, on 01/22/2009, -14/+51While the thumbs-down can hide the message, the fact still remains; The FISA bill voted on in 2008 allowed for the pardon of every one involved in the illegal wiretapping going on by Chenney and Crew.
It is a matter of public voting records that shows Mr. Obama did in fact vote to give everyone a free pass on prosecution. He along with Graham, (McCain was a no show) and DeMint voted Yea - total Yea = 69.
While Biden off-set Obama's Yea with a Nay vote - total Nay = 27
There were 3 No-shows:
Kennedy with his brain issues = good reason
Sessions with health issues = good reason
McCain (no excuse) = Just following a trend of many years in Washington; McNoShow. - frishackbanned, on 01/22/2009, -0/+36But you should be angry and rioting in the streets over this insanity.
- Waiting2awake, on 01/22/2009, -3/+36Apothekari - The republicans sponsored the bills, the democrats supported them.
One sets you up, the other finishes you off. Thus it has been in American politics for decades, and decades.
I hope Obama is different - but a politician is what a politician does. - Foot56, on 01/22/2009, -0/+33I voted for Obama but I’m pretty sure he voted giving immunity to the telecom companies over this kind of stuff.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/06/obama-sup ... - kapsar, on 01/22/2009, -4/+37They got rid of Haebus Corpus why couldn't that go by the way side as well. I know Bush and Co. are out and all. It could happen in the future.
- apothekari, on 01/22/2009, -17/+48Yeah because no-one ever ruthlessly invaded a Democrat administration and had hearings one after the other...Oh wait.
Remember MONICA LEWINSKY?
Bush and the Republicans did this, NOT the Democrats.
Now if you want to argue both parties suck,I'm with you.
But I'm sick of this "Democrats are exactly as evil" ***** I see spouted on here every day.
The last 8 years were different my friend,Markedly different and The Republicans had all the power. And they abused the hell out of it.
This is theirs, They own it,and they are now out of power {thank god} because of it. - jsmithers, on 01/22/2009, -2/+31For ANYTHING non trivial, the fourth estate is I'm afraid these days pure and total fiction. Check it:
1.) CIA has controlled the US and international media for years, via assets (paid people) in media organizations
"PAO [CIA's Public Affairs Office] now has relationships with reporters from every major wire service, newspaper, news weekly, and television network in the nation. This has helped us turn some intelligence failure stories into intelligence success stories, and it has contributed to the accuracy of countless others. In many instances, we have persuaded reporters to postpone, change, hold, or even scrap stories that could have adversely affected national security interests or jeopardized sources and methods."
From: http://disclosureproject.org/CIA-MemoPage6.htm
Whole doc (4.85 MB PDF): http://disclosureproject.org/PDF-Documents/CIAMemo ...
2.) "Into the Buzzsaw: Leading Journalists Expose the Myth of a Free Press" by Kristina Borjesson, ongoing chronicles of journalists being threatened and shut down by the powers that be. http://www.amazon.com/Into-Buzzsaw-Leading-Journal ...
3.) Digg and other "user generated" (Ha!) media are heavily controlled and watched, there has been loads of ongoing evidence of this with controversial stories, comments, and users, buried, removed or otherwise suppressed. This applies to Youtube, Google video and so on.
The ENTIRE media is well and truly OWNED on every level by the New World Order folks. - honemasterT, on 01/22/2009, -0/+28Newsweek had a story on another Whistleblower, Thomas Tramm.
(just search their site)
Excerpt:
-----------
Thomas M. Tamm was entrusted with some of the government's most important secrets. He had a Sensitive Compartmented Information security clearance, a level above Top Secret. Government agents had probed Tamm's background, his friends and associates, and determined him trustworthy.
It's easy to see why: he comes from a family of high-ranking FBI officials. During his childhood, he played under the desk of J. Edgar Hoover, and as an adult, he enjoyed a long and successful career as a prosecutor. Now gray-haired, 56 and fighting a paunch, Tamm prides himself on his personal rectitude. He has what his 23-year-old son, Terry, calls a "passion for justice." For that reason, there was one secret he says he felt duty-bound to reveal.
In the spring of 2004, Tamm had just finished a yearlong stint at a Justice Department unit handling wiretaps of suspected terrorists and spies—a unit so sensitive that employees are required to put their hands through a biometric scanner to check their fingerprints upon entering. While there, Tamm stumbled upon the existence of a highly classified National Security Agency program that seemed to be eavesdropping on U.S. citizens. The unit had special rules that appeared to be hiding the NSA activities from a panel of federal judges who are required to approve such surveillance. When Tamm started asking questions, his supervisors told him to drop the subject. He says one volunteered that "the program" (as it was commonly called within the office) was "probably illegal."
EarthShare
Tamm agonized over what to do. He tried to raise the issue with a former colleague working for the Senate Judiciary Committee. But the friend, wary of discussing what sounded like government secrets, shut down their conversation. For weeks, Tamm couldn't sleep. The idea of lawlessness at the Justice Department angered him. Finally, one day during his lunch hour, Tamm ducked into a subway station near the U.S. District Courthouse on Pennsylvania Avenue. He headed for a pair of adjoining pay phones partially concealed by large, illuminated Metro maps. Tamm had been eyeing the phone booths on his way to work in the morning. Now, as he slipped through the parade of midday subway riders, his heart was pounding, his body trembling. Tamm felt like a spy. After looking around to make sure nobody was watching, he picked up a phone and called The New York Times.
The FBI is still chasing after this dude.. Obama needs to call the dogs off IMHO and give these guys Congressional Medals of Honor. They are the true patriots! - Adam87, on 01/22/2009, -0/+28Reminds me of Hoover and the FBI. Claims he had politicians wiretapped and apparently use it to blackmail. Also I remember seeing something about Hoover having stuff on JFK. Now these days they can activate your cell phone without you knowing and listen to your conversations.
- BlatheringIdiot, on 01/22/2009, -0/+26What happens is you sue AT&T out of existence?"
Hopefully, some other company will fill their shoes and abide by the laws of the land. The laws do apply to us ALL. - inactive, on 01/22/2009, -0/+26And miss American Idol? Are you kidding?
Bread and circuses, folks. - altgeeky1, on 01/22/2009, -3/+28This really isn't aimed at ordinary Americans, that's why they don't care.
It IS aimed at people who are worth blackmailing, middle-level politicians, union bosses, journalists and protest groups. Whistleblowers protect the public and the taxpayer from abuses, or at least expose the facts related. Most whistleblowers hope they can act anonymously... and the courts have protected this... but if all the reporters have their phones tapped then sources are not free to talk to reporters.
And that is all it takes folks. It's not quite Russian style democracy but it is another barrier to it removed, edging closer... - richgustavson, on 01/22/2009, -0/+25Dugg for naked hunger
- higgs, on 01/22/2009, -0/+24We think we are free but aren't. They know they aren't free.
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