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36 Comments
- inactive, on 09/05/2008, -0/+17This is absolutely true. I know that the majority of poll workers in my area are volunteers from senior communities. There are already enough difficulties with optical scanners - but no paper-trail electronic voting could propose a real problem. I believe with voting we need the most secure system available - not necessarily the most expedient or efficient. Maybe we have to wait a few days to get the accurate result - but I would much rather have that than deal with the insecurity of no-paper-trail ballots.
- EpicSelekta, on 09/06/2008, -1/+18I am absolutely amazed that I live in a universe where the government can rope together 2 million mostly computer-literate people whose average age is 72.
Unlikely coincidence: McCain is also 72, but not computer literate. - acofrin, on 09/06/2008, -0/+12We saw the emergence of these voting machines after the 2000 "hanging chads" election debacle. Party apparatus is defrauding the public. We need to wake up and research our own methods of voting.
- ThaDRD, on 09/06/2008, -0/+8Everyone should watch Hacking Democracy on HBO or DVD. It's not just the machines that suck, the people that run them are clueless, overly secretive about a public process, and can't seem to follow procedure (ie not tossing out polling tapes that are supposed to be retained for 18 months).
- keithloughnane, on 09/06/2008, -0/+7I'm irish, the gov here tried to bring in voting machines and after spending millions the decided they can be relied on. I like the quote in Gangs of New York: "it's not the voters who decide the election it's the counters" there is something more democratic about people counting votes in plain sight of the public.
- arjie, on 09/06/2008, -2/+6This can't be real. They expect a 72 year old to do 14 hour shifts?
- EgbertSouse, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3I challenge your "computer literacy." I am a real computer expert, I don't just play one for the republican party and or the voting machine companies (two heads of the same beast). No system will be safe without a verifiable (paper) trail. In addition all code and machine specification should be open, in their entirety, for public scrutiny. Hiding behind claims of propriety is akin to "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
I urge everyone to visit www.blackbox.org and download their voting manual. - haydesigner, on 09/06/2008, -1/+4"There are tons of checks and balances in place"
And you know this... how?
(and I'm saying "know" specifically... not just that someone told you it was that way) - katers4, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3I'm a poll manager and I'm 21. However 4/8 of my usual workers are over the age of 65. The elections office in my county tries desperately to get younger people to come work but the only people who ever want to are the old ones. It is a 14 hour shift on election day and in my county you get paid $230 day for the day's work so it's actually great pay. Everyone complains about there only being old people at the polls but no one else is willing to volunteer their time and work them for themselves. I take a day off work/school every election day and do it.
- justiceape, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3Mmmm, no, pretty sure the reason voting machines exist is election fraud.
- TheGuruStud, on 09/06/2008, -0/+3But that's 0 protection against voting fraud where the software is rigged to count more X votes than Y (obviously X = necons). Which, is EXACTLY what's been happening.
- jazzguitar18, on 09/06/2008, -1/+3with 2000 we had to wait a few days anyways, and the result wasn't accurate so I agree.
- danswim393, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2This stuff keeps me up at night!
- samimnot, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2I am always kind and respectful to the elderly people that are working at the voting stations. But I have to admit...the last couple times, I actually had to help them figure things out.
And I mean no disrespect to them now but this process has to change. And NOW, for this ELECTION ;-) because the last 2 have been highly questionable. IMHO... - fotoman, on 09/07/2008, -0/+2 I signed up to be a poll worker and it's 16 hours in my district.... And they don't allow you to split your shift. If they only allowed 8 hour shifts...more people would do it.
I'm also lucky that my new day job gives all of it's employees election day as a paid holiday! It should be a National holiday!! - truck87bp, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2How do you write in a vote? YOU CAN"T ! Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and a few others have told you about your future. Our Government is Broken, TV is broken, the Constitution and Bill of Rights is broken and the Internet is soon to be broken (Internet2). Wake up America? Wake up Europe?
I vote for Elections to be done on-line so I can verify my VOTE with a number. Think of the time and money that could be saved. You could stop slamming the Elderly for trying to help you because you are as lost as some of them or you wouldn't ask.
I vote for term limits on all Politicians, with exceptions of a pre-vote 6 months before an Election (on-line), if a Politician is doing his job.
I vote that you cannot hold a Political Office if you haven't lived in the USA for less than 30 years with Citizenship.
I vote to stop all Lobbying (conflict of interest). All major Corporations strictly forbid ANY gifts and so can our Government.
I vote NOT to give Illegal Aliens my Social Security that I worked for, for the last 38 years. They get more than I do and that is pure BS and immoral. Stop all payments NOW. ( I do feel sorry for that but its not right). They get more than $500 a month...that's the same my Wonder Mother gets for being a Citizen all her life.
I vote that my mother gets my fathers Social Security when he dies, plus her own. He paid for it! Why should some private banker get it?
I vote that the Fed will not borrow from the Social Security Pot and give back the over $61 Trillion Dollars it Stole from us plus Interest. Who are these Bankers stealing our money. They know where every penny is, its their job and life long ambition to steal from you.
I vote to protect all Pensions.
I vote that the Politician's get the same Social Security and Medical Benefits that we get.
I vote that Carl Rove be put in Jail for Contempt of court. NOW! This is just plain wrong!
I think should vote for Supreme court Justices...no more appointments.
I vote that the Food and Drug Administration be Investigated. To many bad drugs and food.
I vote that imports get taxed the same as the exporter taxes us.
I vote that Bills in the Senate be separate..no more behind the scenes BS.
I vote a Real Impechment Process be implemented in 30 days by a vote on-line vote 60 days before voting..State or Federal, 60 day limit. No more playing around! We want Leaders!
I vote to end the War overseas with help to the countries that we invaded and any Future Wars be approved by Congress like there supposed to be.
I would vote for Voting Reform Now ! not in November when it will be too late.
I would vote for all of this and more if I was permitted to, Democracy, what do you vote for? How about a little help here to add to the list.....
Write your Governor and Congress and tell them what you want on the Ballot, don't let them choose for you!
Get involved with YOUR Government. Make time, Get off your lazy Game playing, text messaging asses and do something real in your life for change. - inactive, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2homeland security for the paper ballots!!!
guards guarding the guards,,,
accurate chain of custody ,,,
retention for possible recount,,,,
open source and in public view,,,
ending terrorism begins at home - ell0bo, on 09/06/2008, -0/+2The only way to really have checks and balances is to have a receipt printed after you cast your vote. You check your vote, and then hand in part of it to a box and keep the other part. This way there is a paper trail in case something gets disputed, and you can make sure you voted exactly how you intended. Why no one does it this way, I have no ***** idea. I know the kinds of idiots that use my tools I design at work, I'm you really need to try and make things idiot proof these days, because with our education system as it is, we are only designing bigger and better idiots.
- TheSavant, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1The problem with working the polls and the reason there are so many older people working is low pay and long hours. People can't afford to take a day off work so they can go work for basically minimum wage for fourteen hours.
- katers4, on 09/07/2008, -0/+1Yes they do haydesigner. Have you seen one? The receipt prints out the names of the candidates and how many votes were received for each, I make multiple copies of these and they are posted for the public to see. And no obviously I can't control the software itself. I never said there are TONSSS of checks and balances; I was just sticking up for the integrity of the actual poll workers.
- reddikilowatt, on 09/07/2008, -0/+1Dude. Calm down. Online voting would be at best a mess and at worst, expose our election system to international hackers.
Why not...
1) close up non-essential businesses while the polls are open.
2) have very small voting precincts ( - inactive, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1i want them inside of me
- kd1s, on 09/07/2008, -0/+1The average age being 72 doesn't surprise me. I think voting days should be city, state or national holidays. For example, I have a primary coming up on September 9th, but I leave for work at 6:30AM and don't get back until after the pols close.
But the company I work for is good about that. I'll just go in later on Tuesday. - haydesigner, on 09/06/2008, -0/+1@katers4, that is hardly "tons of checks and balances", and like @TheGuruStud pointed out, your example only 'protects' the number of votes there were, NOT who the votes actually were for.
- acofrin, on 09/08/2008, -0/+1Josef Stalin said much the same thing when he stated "It's not who's doing the voting but who's doing the counting." We must take control of the ballot box away from the party apparatus in order to restore sanity to government. Those being selected should not have undue influence on the process of selection itself.
- AllenFresno, on 09/18/2008, -0/+1Everybody and everything are trying to be controlled by technology instead them controlling the technology.
- Cattywampus, on 09/09/2008, -0/+1I've been going to the same polling place and most of the workers are 50 and up, and many are in their 70s, I'd say.
- katers4, on 09/06/2008, -0/+0I make $16/hour working the polls which is a hell of a lot more than my $8/hour receptionist job. You should check the figures in your county.
- omgitisnate, on 09/07/2008, -0/+0This can't be real. They expect a 72 year old to run a country?
- semo69, on 12/17/2008, -0/+0i think they will have issues with voting machines for quite some time in the foreseeable future. http://www.talkdemocratic.com
Although the voting machines make life easier for most of us, I figure that we will always need the human element! - katers4, on 09/06/2008, -1/+0Where I work.... The machines spit out a tape with the number of votes cast at the end of the day based on what is on that machine's memory card. We check this number against the number of certificates people fill out when they come in to vote as well as how many people we have marked off as voted in the elector's list. Obviously all of these numbers should match indicating that the number of people who came in and signed the certificate entered a ballot on the machine.
The memory cards are returned to the main office and the data on these are directly uploaded to the state server. - Vicious172, on 09/06/2008, -3/+3Nanomachines
- inactive, on 09/06/2008, -4/+3*****
- AmnesiacJack, on 09/06/2008, -4/+1If you crunch the numbers there is exactly a 29% chance that some one over the age of 70 will die during a 14 hour shift.
- R0am3r, on 09/06/2008, -4/+1You obviously have some sick fetish for senior citizens. Ewww.
- inactive, on 09/06/2008, -6/+2Buried as mostly inaccurate. I was an election judge for our state's recent primary (Colorado) and I'm 48--and quite computer literate. While several of the judges present were seniors, they had nothing to do with the voting machines, and even if they would have been the vote center supervisor and trouble shooter were completely on top of things. I helped run the results strips, posted them for the public (the names of voters aren't displayed, only what "voter 123" voted and final results), signed off on them, put the elections office result strips in sealed and tracked bags and storage boxes, removed the memory cards (again, no names, only voter numbers), broke down the machines, and sent them back to our county's elections office. The only time it's possible to connect the voter number to the voter results is if very few, like 5, people vote. Most vote centers have hundreds if not thousands of voters throughout the day, and there's no way anyone can remember the names of all the people who voted and in what order they came in to vote. The only time their names are checked is to ensure they are registered to vote (their ID is checked when they first come in). There's no written or corresponding number to connect the name of the voter with their vote, mostly because their name isn't transferred to the voting machine AND because they have their choice of voting machine.
The integrity of the voting machines is relevant only in making sure the votes cast at that particular machine are accurately tabulated by the 'puter function of the machine. There are tons of checks and balances in place to ensure, as much as is possible, that every vote is anonymously counted.
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