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- tcbishop12, on 06/29/2008, -47/+190The Presidency is far more about character, thoughtfulness, truthfulness, insight, leadership, personal responsibility, effective organization, practical long-term inter-generational problem solving, judgment and a passionate commitment to the American people.
I'll leave it to you to decide who best fits those shoes. As for me, I'm campaigning for Sen. Obama as if my future and the future of my children and theirs depend on it - because it does. - Arishia, on 06/29/2008, -28/+107I'm glad that someone with the military chops necessary has finally said this, too. I respect McCain's military service, but I don't think for a minute that it qualifies him for the job of president. In fact, some friends of mine that are in the military tell me that his POW experience actually disqualifies him from the job. That may be a controversial position, but, I tend to agree. It may have formed his anger issues, and his emotional "I'll never surrender in Iraq" mindset. He seems to frame his ideas around victory and surrender, rather than finding a workable solution; a win win. It really seems problematic to me. Don't we have a civilian leadership for a reason? If the founding fathers meant for the presidency to only be filled by military leaders, wouldn't they have designed it that way? Also, if torture and being a POW is training for leadership, then what kind of leaders are we currently making in Gitmo? Will we give the same deference to these guys that we give to McCain?
- SaladCactusKing, on 06/30/2008, -13/+81I'm voting for Obama, but Clark is wrong and Colin Powell said it much classier:
"Powell told a crowd of about 1,000 people at the Vancouver Convention & Exhibition Centre that he hasn’t decided whether to support Obama or Republican John McCain for the U.S. presidency.
Powell said that Obama’s life story sums up the “American dream” and he described McCain as the “toughest man I’ve ever met.”
Powell said he told both candidates recently that he has not decided which one will have his coveted endorsement.
The African-American former general said his decision won’t be based on the race or military experience of the candidates, but on their passion and policies."
Remember this is the guy who:
[A]fter being shot out of the sky during a risky raid over Hanoi in 1967, then pummeled by a mob of local Vietnamese and detained at the notorious prison nicknamed the Hanoi Hilton, McCain comported himself heroically despite two broken arms, a mangled knee, and innards wracked by dysentery and other maladies. Every morning for two years a guard the prisoners called The Prick would demand that McCain bow to him. Every morning McCain would refuse, then brace for his beating. Herded into a made-for-propaganda Christmas Eve service in the prison yard, McCain punctured the enforced silence with repeated shouts of “***** you!” while raising his middle finger to the camera. Beat senseless for days on end for refusing to divulge information or accept early release (which would have given the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory and violated the Navy’s honor code), he would reveal only the names of every player he could remember from the Green Bay Packers. “Resisting, being uncooperative and a general pain in the ass,” he wrote, “proved, as it had in the past, to be a morale booster for me.”
Does that make presidential material? I don't know, probably not. But you can't ***** on his military record, it's just not right. Not to mention, Obama his no military experience at all, which really, in my opinion, may be a good thing.
-Obama 08, but ***** keep it civil. - onyxcoltrane, on 06/30/2008, -29/+95We don't need another cowboy in the White House trying to prove his manhood.
Bush: "Bring em on"
McCain: "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran"
These quotes are not presidential, they are demonstrative of a juvenile flexing his muscles. And the last thing we need is a President with anger management issues. - marabout40, on 06/29/2008, -42/+94I'm right there with ya, tcbishop12. And I'm committed for the long haul. Four years isn't even gonna scratch the surface of the damage this administration and previous administrations (and we need to be honest, a lot of the problems began with the Clintons - don't forget NAFTA and hundreds of thousands of jobs that are now overseas) have done to this country. We need to make sure Barack is able to stay in that White House for two terms.
We also need to apply the same vigor and diligent thought and engagement to getting our local officials elected to office. We have to hold them, the WH, Congress, the Senate - all branches of government and all elected officials - accountable. We cannot allow what has happened over the last 8 years to happen again.
A little less of the Kardashians and Flava Flav and more of C-SPAN. - djturtlep, on 06/30/2008, -20/+55McCain really turned me off with that "Bomb Iran" nonsense. Is that the kind of leader we want? Some one that will joke about war and killing people? I have many Persian friends that have family back in Iran. It made me cringe.
- any1particular, on 06/30/2008, -13/+49It blows my mind how anyone can possibly even consider a vote for the war mongering, lying, and slllooooww thinking Republicans?
One only need look at what the 'conservative' mood of the last 8+ years has done to our great country.
Republicans and their political rhetoric point out that they represent lean MEAN government. But what about a bloated military? The (very expensive) Industrial Military Complex is not government?
Unfortunately many Americans have been brain washed by the (malicious) right wing radio hosts.
For example they attach stigma to Socialism. And yet the countries with the highest standard of living are socialist.
Did you know that the # 1 cause of bankruptcy in the United States is unanticipated medical bills?
Predatory lending is another good example of the 'right' gone wrong. If the mortgage industry had been regulated we wouldn't be in the housing mess we're in now. Thank you Republicans!
And the weak dollar? Yes. again we can blame the conservatives. America has become more a debt 'junkie' - - than ever before with total debt of $53 Trillion - - and the highest debt ratio in history. Thank you Conservatives!
And the high price of oil? Unregulated futures market (a few getting very rich-very Republican) a week dollar and a federal government with out vision. Thank you again Republicans!
I too am going to campaign vigorously for President Oboma.
God help us all if John McBush gets into office. - capj71, on 06/29/2008, -28/+60You both are right on the money. The elected officials who have the most impact on our daily lives are in our local governments. People need to start paying attention at all levels. It is going to take 4 terms to completely clean up the "Bush Legacy."
- inactive, on 06/30/2008, -23/+53Clark: "That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded, that wasn't a wartime squadron."
In fact McCain had no qualifications to be put in charge of a squadron. He was an abysmal pilot and was only given the position because his daddy and his grandaddy were both Admirals. - JagPop, on 06/30/2008, -18/+45I am a liberal; but, if the choice were between McCain and Clark I would choose McCain.
I saw something similar but different on some news channel lately. Clark was knocking McCain's command experience and at the same time totting his own. Clark was saying something to the effect that we don't know how McCain will behave while under the pressure of command. I almost gagged. Clark was DANGEROUS when he was under the pressure. DANGEROUS. I could expound on this, but I'll leave it to one memorable quote from Clark's time in the Balkans. A general refused Clark's order saying, "I am not going to start WWIII for you, general". - magicjohnson, on 06/29/2008, -19/+43http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Clark_goes_after ...
There's a link to video from McCain getting railed on Face The Nation - Midtowner, on 06/30/2008, -2/+27You must be joking if you think today's Republicans have anything to do with conservatism. Maybe in 1994. These days, we have a bunch of hacks who are only looking out for themselves -- not the American people.
- locamama, on 06/30/2008, -0/+23I think Katrina was the best example of how much your local politicians matter. They are or should be the first responders in an emergency.
- yeat182, on 06/30/2008, -9/+32what exactly are Obama's qualifications to be president?
- spinchange, on 06/30/2008, -35/+58There's a lot of ways you can attack John McCain in the public arena...Calling him "untested" at 71 with 25+ years of experience in congress after a military career is not one of them. When compared against Barack's resume it's a little politically retarded, frankly.
- onyxcoltrane, on 06/30/2008, -3/+24I stand corrected. Gunslinger is more appropriate...a cowardly gunslinger who has someone else do the fighting for him.
- inactive, on 06/30/2008, -3/+24Nice try, but McCain graduated at the bottom of his class at Annapolis. He had a reputation as a party animal including dating strippers. There's lots more, read all about it...
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/04/03/mccain-an ...
Wes Clark on the other hand was the valedictorian at West Point. It would be great if he became the Vice President. - girwen, on 06/30/2008, -5/+25t always gets to me when somebody calls him a cowboy. He's not a cowboy. Cowboys were hard working men who helped to build America into the great country it was. bush is a repugnant gunslinger who has taken this nation from something the world looked up to to because of our freedom to one that is despised because of the way we trample on individual rights and the international rule of law.
- SheilaNoya, on 06/30/2008, -3/+22Wesley Clark doesn't have the experience McCain has????????
You need to check your facts. Wesley Clark makes McCain look like an amateur:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark - Mothrog, on 06/30/2008, -19/+38Clark's an idiot. Obama's only been a US Senator for 4 years, before which he was just a state senator . McCain's been in the Senate for a mere 26 years. There's plenty to attack McCain for, but going after experience when your candidate's a junior Senator is just asinine. And attacking his military service? That's really classy.
- stupidStan, on 06/30/2008, -1/+18then why did he vehemently oppose the bill to fund recovering other POWs?
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/ - inactive, on 06/30/2008, -4/+21His five crashes might have something to do with it.
- MortalynFlux, on 06/30/2008, -0/+16Bush is not even a Texan. He's a yankee from New Haven, Connecticut.
- allowners, on 06/30/2008, -2/+18Yes, both of them remind me of Saddam with their bluster, sword rattling and willingness to act outside international law by invading other countries without provocation.
- allowners, on 06/30/2008, -5/+21Codes of honor is code for authoritarian boot licking. Apply tongue, buff, apply tongue, buff, repeat. Eight years of lawlessness and rule by little men is enough.
- radix2, on 06/30/2008, -9/+24Just to clarify the context of this, General Clark was saying (perhaps a bit too partisan) that McCain didn't really have the experience he claims based on his service alone (despite him being a hero to Clark and other servicemen). Bob Schieffer (the interviewer) said something along the lines of "Obama has none of those experiences, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and got shot down."
To which Gen Clark said: "Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be President. "
And that is a fair enough comment.
I'd suggest people watch the interview (http://www.muhajabah.com/clarkblog/2008/06/clark_g ... dor context. - bunit03057, on 06/30/2008, -7/+22Well, he was ranked as having the most liberal voting record in his short time in the senate. That counts for something.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2008/01/obama_ranked ... - copyland, on 06/30/2008, -0/+14Oh right, YOU read his book....NOT. You watched someone talk about his book on FOX. Admit it, you have no idea what you're talking about.
- TheStrongForce, on 06/30/2008, -0/+14Well said. Although I very much dislike McCain that truly is a bad ass story.
- inactive, on 06/30/2008, -19/+33McCain - War Hero, prisoner of War, combat experience.
vs
Obama - Liberal rockstar, magical fantastical speaker - marabout40, on 06/30/2008, -3/+16Why don't you crawl back under whatever rock you inhabit? Your moniker is apropos. All that comes out of f'd up mind is poop. Idiot.
- TheSwashbuckler, on 06/30/2008, -8/+21Clark is NOT wrong.
The media is constantly bringing up McCain being a POW as though it IS a qualification to be President. Clark is just reminding them that it isn't. - BohicaTwentyTwo, on 06/30/2008, -12/+24Buried for saying military experience is "the entire basis for the McCain presidential campaign."
I wonder what would happen if we applied such simplistic terms to Obama? What is the entire basis of his campaign? What's his one credential? - vexingmodstwo, on 06/30/2008, -6/+18So, back in 2004 when he said Kerry was the right man for the job because of Kerry's military experience, he was full of *****?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/29/dems.cla ... - netant, on 06/30/2008, -1/+13Clark was then given command of A Company, 1st Battalion, 16th Infantry of the 1st Infantry Division in January 1970. In February, only one month into his command, he was shot four times by a Viet Cong soldier with an AK-47. The wounded Clark shouted orders to his men, who counterattacked and defeated the Viet Cong force. Clark had injuries to his right shoulder, right hand, right hip, and right leg. [...] He was awarded the Silver Star for his actions during the encounter.[20]
- ethornquist, on 06/30/2008, -8/+19Good comment. Now move beyond the soundbite. Why?
- Gerz1219, on 06/30/2008, -2/+14The military pretends to teach those virtues in their advertising materials. You advance up the chain of command through backscratching, ass-kissing, conformity, nepotism, and social promotion based on seniority. Within military culture, critical thinking, idealism, vocal support for reality, and a desire to change the status quo are all career-killing vices. McCain actually learned this the hard way, when he advanced pretty far but not far enough to be seriously considered for admiral, and it shows in every step of this campaign. At some point, McCain decided that his ambition should trump his principles, which is why there isn't a single major issue on which he's stuck to his most deeply held beliefs.
And also, as Clark pointed out, McCain doesn't really have any more executive experience than Obama. Their own 2008 campaigns are the largest organizations either of them has ever managed. The Senate is a wasteland of dinner parties and smoke-filled rooms where virtuous politicans go to die. It's like Amsterdam -- once you've been there for three days you get how it works and quickly become bored and restless. McCain would need just as much on-the-job training as Obama. All presidents do. The only way to gain the experience necessary to be president is to become president. - mnpilot, on 06/30/2008, -4/+16Yeah, because murdering 4500 US Soliders, racking up 3 Trillion in Debt, and using the Constitution as toilet paper. Your right, Obama would destroy the country.
Your a solid ***** idiot. - inactive, on 06/30/2008, -6/+18Oh, I understand your question. I also understand that since you received a response you didn't like, that you're now moving the goalpost. You didn't specify which sources you required in your original question, so presumably you expect responders to have some kind of mind reading ability.
However, it would be so childishly simple to come up with reliable sources for McCain's terrible flying performance (his own book springs to mind) that I'm gonna let readers of these comments do the checking. However, suffice it to say McCain lost five US planes, only ONE of which was in combat.
1: 1958, crashed into Corpus Christi Bay practicing landings.
2: Flying too low over Spain, flew into power lines (!) and hit the dirt.
3: Returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game, he had a flameout for some reason, ejected, plane crashed into a luckily uninhabited area.
4: 1967 - USS Forrestal - which may not be his fault - something made the plane behind McCain fire a rocket, which hit McCain's external center fuel tank, and caused the fire. Some, including surviving Forrestal crew members, claim it was his stupidity which caused the accident by deliberately 'wet-starting' his jet to shake up the pilot behind him, which caused the premature launch. Critics of this say that this is entirely hearsay, but it is of note that McCain was the *only* crew member transferred off the Forrestal immediately after the accident, possibly because if he hadn't been, he'd have been lynched. He left with the wounded - note: he wasn't wounded.
5: same year, shot down, didn't keep his arms to his sides as he ejected, breaking both of them. He can't really be blamed for this as he was hit by a missile, but I don't fly, so I don't know what measures can be taken to evade surface to air unguided missiles (didn't he have chaff?).
This is not the record of a good pilot. He admitted as much himself in his own book. I take his word for it. - bentman78, on 06/30/2008, -17/+29Yeah...blasting McCain. This coming from a guy who was an awful NATO commander and was fired..
http://wais.stanford.edu/Individuals/individual_ge ...
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2007/06/wesley_clark ...
http://www.slate.com/id/2091194/
He doesn't have room to talk about McCain's credentials. This was an issue for him when he ran for president. A lot of people who served under him while I was in (I never deployed to that region) hated the guy. That speaks volumes when your troops hate you. If he can't run a campaign to effectively stop the crap in Kosovo he's not going to be able to stop the problems in Iraq or this country.
What shocks me is people seem to have ADD and forgot all about Clark's inability to make decisions...
Buried... - stupidStan, on 06/30/2008, -3/+15back that up with something... anything?
- wacomwacoff, on 06/30/2008, -5/+17Oh I don't know, maybe being a four-star general and supreme commander of NATO?
- inactive, on 06/30/2008, -2/+13Abraham Lincoln, Franklin Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson all had equal or *less* years of political experience upon inauguration than "inexperienced" Barack Obama has right now.
It's a good thing that bunch of inexperienced politicians didn't have to run for president in 2008. Wilson would have to defend his grand total of two years of experience as Governor of New Jersey. And Right Wing Shill opponents of FDR would no doubt circulate an e-mail with pictures of him in a wheelchair and attack him for having served as Governor of New York for only four years.
Let's talk about the economy - arguably a more important issue right now than terrorism. McCain has no economics background - none, and he even admitted he knows less than he needs to about economics. Obama is a Harvard economics graduate.
Obama has the qualifications. - estate, on 06/30/2008, -4/+15I think you need glasses.
He didn't say McCain's military experience doesn't matter because Obama "knows how to yack." He just said McCain's military experience doesn't matter [as far as qualifications for POTUS are concerned].
And there's a good reason for that. It doesn't.
Serving in the military and surviving POW camps are testament to McCain's allegiance to his country and his ability to survive physical adversity, neither of which make him more qulaified than Obama to be President of the United States. - inactive, on 06/30/2008, -0/+11He said if necessary. It would make more sense, since that is actually where the terrorists who attacked America were and are being trained, rather than Iraq, which had nothing whatsoever to do with it. Oh yeah, also Osama bin Laden, remember him? He's still up that way, according to his own family. So, you know, it wouldn't be a bad idea, like attacking Iran and staying in Iraq for another 100 years.
- MelvinSchlubman, on 06/30/2008, -1/+12And all that taxing & spending would irresponsibly run up the deficit. Wait...
- SoulDrift404, on 06/30/2008, -1/+12Wait, so the following text from the transcript is belittling his service?
http://securingamerica.com/node/2993
"He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility."
Sorry, my dear, I fail to see how. - tjmb9, on 06/30/2008, -4/+14So in your mind, questioning McCain's service is wrong, but criticizing Clark's isn't?
- bjornski, on 06/30/2008, -1/+12You wouldn't know socialism if you were driving on roads built by it.
But you'd have NO problem figuring out which roads were built with capitalist methods.
Those toll booths are pretty hard to miss. -
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