What is Digg?285 Comments
- Anomaly100, on 12/27/2008, -20/+50Wow, I really feel the love in here! Such empathy toward your fellow man. Careful now, you may one day, just find yourself in some welfare line. It must be dehumanizing and I don't know enough about it to insult so many in this world wildly and randomly like you guys seem to.
I'm really glad I don't. - woodsjransom, on 12/27/2008, -9/+34Be careful going out at night, if not hopefully you will be the first victim to the saying that hungry people are not polite.
- tasine, on 12/27/2008, -10/+31Most of you know I am a conservative, and I believe a pretty strong one. I am opposed to a lax welfare system. Like all conservatives I know, I believe a welfare system is vital - to help those who cannot help themselves. In some cases that will be for a lifetime, but hopefully it should be temporary in most cases as the person is assisted should be working to get back on his feet and not become a ward of the state. What I hate is ANY government office that is run in a slipshod fashion. And I am somewhat aware how government agencies grow out of all proportion.
That said, I do not care for attitude Nina Odell has, but in some respects I can understand it. If I am correct, I believe she said she is on SSI, and while I am aware some view that as a welfare program, I respectfully disagree. I believe truly disabled people must have help. I only draw the line when the recipient is scamming the program because that steal from the truly needy. I do NOT believe SS money should be paying this - I believe it belongs in another department, but I do believe it belongs.
Some may think there is a caveat here. My husband retired from federal government service and I receive his retirement benefits, albeit reduced from what he drew. However, for me to draw it at all, deductions were taken from his monthly check to cover my coverage should he die before me. Some may see this as welfare. I don't. I watched him strap on a gun every day he worked before his retirement. I never felt confident he would be able to come home at the end of his shift. Some of his comrades were murdered out in the desert. He won a knife fight or two, but he did manage to retire. I feel we earned his retirement.
My problem with most government programs lies with the fact that most are not supposed to be the responsibility of the federal government in the first place, and by grabbing and producing more and more programs, we lose more and more and more of our freedoms and controls. There is nothing in anyone's life that is not affected by the federal government. This is NOT good - it leads to a centralized government and our government was not designed to be centralized such as the USSR was. Our states should be offering these programs, and the state's taxpayers should be paying to the state, not to the feds, to support these programs. I just wish the left would join the right to get states' rights returned to the states and out of the feds hands. - uncleosbert, on 12/27/2008, -4/+23no, i think the argument is that if we are to offer any aid at all, it would be better to offer enough to get people back on their feet instead of a symbolic donation.
- booksnmore4you, on 12/27/2008, -14/+32But for...
....food stamps
...and medicaid
...and WIC
...and state-funded grants and scholarships
...and state-funded higher education
...as well as private help
...I would have never been
...to make it through college
...to lift not only myself
...but a whole generation
...of my family
...out of poverty
...OUT
...and my wife would be dead
...and I a widower
...and my children motherless
...but for these things
...and now also
...through education
...I teach many adults
...and many children
...who are at some phase
...this or that side
...of poverty
...because most can get out
...as I once did
...with hard work
...and a lightening of their burdens
...for a season
...or sometimes years
So ya'll go take that and tabulate it into things.
Because "It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way." - Proverbs 19:2. - eir574, on 12/27/2008, -7/+25"I just wish the left would join the right to get states' rights returned to the states and out of the feds hands."
You might be surprised how much common ground you share with some people on the left. Like many others I know, I call myself a liberal when forced to choose between the conservative and liberal label because I'm reasonably conservative on fiscal issues, but cannot stand the stance many conservatives have taken on using the government (even the federal one; ah, the irony) to implement a nanny state in which personal choice is removed in order to force people to make what they consider to be moral choices.
When you write like you did in this post, I can support you. When you insult liberals left and right and then ask them to consider that conservatives are perhaps kind people, I can't. (How easy do you think it is to see compassion and kindness in a person who is too busy insulting you to demonstrate it?) - tasine, on 12/26/2008, -30/+48Do you hear what I hear? Do you think what I think? These welfare pimps never slow down. There are some truly needy people, but no where close to as many as these pimps would have us believe. There are some who are needy simply because of their own activities or lack of same. There are some who are needy because they blow all the money on drugs and/or alcohol. Some are needy because they gamble away what little they have. And these pimps want us to, in reality, bankrroll these people's lack of common sense?!?!
- regeya, on 12/27/2008, -0/+17"My husband retired from federal government service and I receive his retirement benefits, albeit reduced from what he drew. However, for me to draw it at all, deductions were taken from his monthly check to cover my coverage should he die before me. Some may see this as welfare. I don't."
I'm glad to hear that. Some folks probably do. I know people who think the VA is welfare, or that SS is welfare. In the former case, I don't think we can afford NOT to care for our veterans, and in the latter, we (in theory; in practice, it's used as part of the general fund) pay for it. - eir574, on 12/27/2008, -1/+18@VRayZ
Perhaps not everyone spends time attempting to perfect their ability to insult others. That's not exactly a character flaw.
Good for you for overcoming difficult circumstances in your life. Seriously. I hope someone was there at some point to offer you a helping hand when you needed it the most, and I hope that we all play that role in someone's life (knowingly or unknowingly) from time to time. - JenniferInMO, on 12/27/2008, -9/+26"You people"? What the hell is wrong with you? Hong, red states get proportionally more "welfare" than blue states do. I have worked with child services and watched parents work to get themselves back on their feet to be able to get their kids back. There are some people who have given up but for every one of those there are two others who, with some help fight hard, work hard, become productive, get their kids back, pay taxes and live productive lives.
If you had your way the very little help that we offer our poor would be eliminated and our streets would be littered with the dead. Over 300k people die every year from lack of adequate health care. No one lives a decent life on government money. Even the most skilled "welfare queen" cannot pay for the basics.
You have a very wrongheaded view of the world as it exists and total lack of empathy or compassion for humans is disgusting. - sarahlee, on 12/27/2008, -10/+26Some folks just can't resist showing their real "compassionate" spirit - even the day after Christmas.
- inactive, on 12/26/2008, -26/+41Creating the great welfare state that many people have warned about. This is just a downward spiral for the poor and will only make their lives worse.
Totally breaks any personal initiative and enslaves the person to the state. What happens when the people learn they can vote themselves gold from the national coffers? - sarahlee, on 12/27/2008, -6/+20You know, the only reason to have governments - the reason people agree to come together in communities and then states and national governments is to protect each other and foster the common good. Even in the times of hunter/gatherers - humans were smart enough to see that they worked better together and that it was to the benefit of each individual to be part of something larger to gain some security.
When you help and provide some support for those in need, you not only give them the opportunity to recover and become productive, but you save yourself money from other expenses like crime and future generations of those needing assistance.
To say my fate is not tied to your fate is like saying, "Your end of the boat is sinking."--Hugh Downs - ironhide, on 12/27/2008, -1/+15Ok everyone...enough already. Browbeating each other isn't accomplishing a damn thing. Let it go, and go to bed.
Ray, for what it's worth, I'm sorry for slamming you as much as I did. I won't apologize for defending my friends and I realize that was what you were doing as well. - jackieblu, on 12/27/2008, -3/+16Thanks to all my friends!
- Zubata, on 12/27/2008, -2/+15There is nothing wrong with giving the needy a "temporary" helping hand. The real problem lies with those who choose to make a lifelong living from charity when they are capable of providing for themselves. The politicians who recognize that a beholding population translates to votes are especially culpable. Guess which party that tends to be.
- eir574, on 12/27/2008, -0/+13"My beliefs give me a future."
Doesn't mean that they're accurate. You're entitled to them, of course, but truth isn't determined by how good it feels. I hope you're not suggesting otherwise.
"You beliefs give you death. "
Death comes to everyone. The fact that it's approaching (hopefully not too quickly!) makes me appreciate the time I have in my life all that much more. I'm not waiting for some deity to reward me or punish me for my actions or for whether or not I believe he exists; I instead consider myself accountable to my fellow human beings. I was raised in a Jewish family, and though I'm an atheist now, I look back with appreciation on how little was said to me about death. I was taught that we seek forgiveness from the people we have wronged and not from a deity. I was taught that we try our best to be good people and to seek that forgiveness when we fail because that is our duty to other people. - booksnmore4you, on 12/27/2008, -8/+21@ tasine
I used to be a conservative and I was in poverty for years. I got a GED and for several YEARS, because I did not believe in the role of government to help me, tried diligently to get private help to help get me and my family out of poverty.
And I did this in one of the wealthiest areas of the nation, while a long time member of a very wealthy conservative Evangelical church.
What private help did was never even remotely enough and only put temporary band aids on things, although at one point, to prevent my family from becoming homeless, the church helped in that area.
I went through an awakening that most people are just too self-centered to help people when it actually COSTS them something to do so.
So theologically, in my belief, when people do not act as they should with the freedom they are given, God takes that freedom away and literally gives it to the State.
Oh, is this story old, very old.
How did purely private charity work in ancient Israel? Ever study the prophets?
Or how about in Dickens's day? Poverty was all around him in England and the chant was private charity, private charity, private charity. It didn't work and finally the State stepped in and it did better.
So yes, I believe in State-run welfare. History, both written and my own, and knowledge of human nature, forces me to believe in it. - inactive, on 12/27/2008, -3/+16The government does more to create poor people than it does to help them.
Imagine you have enough money to own a car but there are no real jobs around and you decide that asking people to pay you for giving them rides will help you make ends meet. The government regulates that and suddenly you are arrested for running an illegal business and they take away your car and throw you in jail.
That's the kind of compassion we see from the so called liberals. They would rather you sit at home and produce nothing and draw from the already overdrawn public coffers.
Imagine you are poor but are a good cook and decide to sell burritos to people and make a little money. The government considers that an illegal business and you are arrested. That is liberal compassion. They would rather you sit at home and draw from the public coffers.
Imagine that you are poor but have a knack for growing food. You sell this food to your neighbors and the government arrests you because you are running an illegal business and throw you and your wife and your children in jail.
That's liberal compassion for you. They would rather you draw from the already overdrawn public coffers.
There are more ways to keep you poor than there are ways to become poor.
Government is not the solution, government is the problem.
http://www.lpstuff.com/shop/index.php?act=viewProd ... - booksnmore4you, on 12/27/2008, -8/+20@ LoneRanger85
Please stop functioning by simplistic stereotypes. It leads to erroneous conclusions.
No one is interested in creating a dependent class, and to the extent that one exists all are interested in solving it.
The goal is to provide transition assistance for people to move from poverty to productivity.
Because when the poor rise all rise and the whole country is made stronger. - eir574, on 12/27/2008, -4/+16No, please don't talk sense. Some people need to insult others in order to feel secure in their beliefs.
- Anomaly100, on 12/27/2008, -6/+18I think that Nina said SSD. SSD is not quite the same and I'm no authority on the subject, but, I'm fairly certain that you need to have a healthy working history in order to qualify. In essence, this would mean that Nina has paid her fair share of taxes or she would not qualify.
My mother raised three children and had to go on welfare when she was pregnant right before giving birth, Now, since this, she has paid welfare back the $500 she received all those years ago. The minute she made enough she went back to the offices, money in hand, and paid every cent back. The man working there told her she didn't have to pay this back.
A friend of mine works for Social Services and told me that each day more and more people have been coming in. It's already happening. I wonder in my heart of hearts if the same people that have been putting down welfare recipients on this comment section, would have done the same thing and paid them back? They may very well end up there one day. As JackieBlu said, Karma has a way of kicking people in the ass. Well, she put it more eloquently. - NinaOdell, on 12/27/2008, -9/+21You know what? That's actually not true.
While there are plenty of meth-heads and shelter-drama people out there that will do just about anything for anything, overall (and in my actual experience) the people on the streets live by a far more decent and compassionate code than a lot of so-called upstanding members of society I've come to meet.
I met a guy on the streets once who had two rotting bananas and offered me one. Those are the people I know. - onthetrail, on 12/27/2008, -10/+22The changes of Obama still sound scary to me!
- JenniferInMO, on 12/27/2008, -6/+17Books, you are an amazing person. Unless you have been there no one will ever know just how difficult it is to do what you have done. Your comments on Digg are not just well-written they are well thought out, always compassionate and civil and you seem to have a wise soul. I am thankful for a time that gave you a little help to be able to pull yourself out of poverty and I am saddened that there are few of those programs left and I will fight until the day that I die to work toward a country where everyone has the opportunity to succeed.
- ironhide, on 12/27/2008, -1/+12Likewise Ray. I think everyone needs to step back now and then and see what they are really saying. We can debate and argue without it devolving in to a useless brawl.
- Anomaly100, on 12/27/2008, -14/+25How exactly did you come up with this little tidbit Hongqi12? Once more, I'll say that you say things purely for shock value. Again, you waste my time. I choose not to respond to you anymore. And this morsel here, is you, showing your insanity:
"the majority of the poor in the US (very subjective) are that way from personal choice"
I can hear it now, "Hey jane, let's go be poor together!" "Wow Steve, father of my children, you're so smart, I'd follow you anywhere, it's our personal choice to be poor. It's much more fun than having shelter and clothes." - realunderdog, on 12/27/2008, -11/+22"My husband retired from federal government service and I receive his retirement benefits,...."
And you complain because someone who lost their job is getting a few crumbs while big corp CEOs are getting bailouts to continue their ultra wealthy lifestyle?
How dare you! - jackieblu, on 12/27/2008, -11/+22@Hongqi12 are you high? People choose to be poor? WTF, Anomaly100- put it very well, lets go be poor, hungry, and homless, ok sounds like a plan... People with good jobs, and what's supposed to be good health insurance, get sick, or in an accident, or their baby gets ill, and their insurance maxes out. They try to stay a-float, but are unable to do so. People work jobs with no insurance because it's the only job out there, they are just scraping by- what do you think happens if they face the same situation? Not all jobs have short, or long term disability. Folks are getting laid off daily, haven't you heard? You could be next. If you had insurance- sometimes you can continue it through COBRA, but without the discounts provided to copanies etc. the rates are so outragously high; people fortunate enough to still have income, ie a working partner for example making decent money; wouldn't be able to afford it, it's a joke. Vet's coming home injured with a variety of heart breaking stories are on the streets. People with mental health issues very often end up on the streets, homeless, poor and often abused. Almost all feel a sence of shame, though it's not their fault.
Homeless, poor people, aren't scary, lazy, ***** ups that want / choose to be out there because it's a blast sleeping in door ways in freezing weather, or in cars, benches or in boxes; they are you, and me. Most people are a paycheck away from being homeless. Even if your more well off, ***** happens, look at the market, natural disasters etc...
KARMA happens too, and it hits clueless, heartless, people with no sence of humanity- like an ice cold bucket of water in the face. Yeah, I know you gave at the office... Don't judge another til you've walked a mile in their shoes ( in fact you shouldn't judge at all), Karma's gonna bite you in the ass- when you have no clue it's coming. Good luck with that, it's not all bad, the personal growth is priceless - hookedonjesus, on 12/27/2008, -1/+12 Sorry......I had more to say. This is such a "shaker", this topic of welfare. The peculiar thing here is that most everyone on this subject has offered up some fine points and arguments. I think we have all pretty much agreed that welfare is fine, is needed, is necessary for a lot of folks and families because their circumstances warrant the benefits. But I think we are all agreed, too, that there are a lot of undeserving recipiants that need to be weeded out....preferably BEFORE they start sucking the system dry. Uncle said it so well waaaay up on this thread; "no, i think the argument is that if we are to offer any aid at all, it would be better to offer enough to get people back on their feet instead of a symbolic donation". Symbolic donations don't help people at the core of their hurts. I believe a welfare system is needed very desperately to salvage good people and offer up those second chances. I'm sorry, I can't remember who said it a little earlier but if you are born into poverty or land into poverty, it is extremely difficult to pull yourself out. I have had many opportunities to speak with homeless people and there are so many different reasons they are where they are. My, God! But for the Grace of God........it could be me. It could. For some it was just losing a job and being denied the benefits needed to just help them get back on their feet and the system didn't work for them. But I see it work for people like my older brother who just didn't want to work...no other reason than that. Something needs to change. I'm tired. Sorry.
- NinaOdell, on 12/27/2008, -8/+19Honqui, I have a permanent disability. I collect SSDI, which is based on the my long-standing work record. You sir, talk straight out of your ass.
- booksnmore4you, on 12/27/2008, -19/+30***** the poor. Put them in prison, especially if they have debts to pay.
/s - sarahlee, on 12/27/2008, -10/+21They don't get it that prison would cost them a lot more in taxes than a bit of welfare.
- novenator, on 12/27/2008, -6/+16this country has been doing that for more than 2 decades now. We have the highest incarceration rate in the western world, on par with places like Zimbabwe. Stiffer penalties, mandatory minimums, and the war on drugs have turned us into a police and prison state
- NinaOdell, on 12/27/2008, -9/+19I haven't encountered such smugness couple with abject ignorance in a long time. You obviously have no actual experience to base your little theories on, or you would be throwing links down like pennies from heaven. If you can give me one actual statistic, I'll bow to you sir.
- eir574, on 12/27/2008, -11/+21"Why do libs insist on supporting those who are scamming the system thereby robbing the truly needy?"
I have yet to run into anyone who actually supports that. Have you, or are you just making those negative generalizations again? You may in fact be able to find people who support that, but that doesn't mean that liberals in general do. If you'd stop lashing out at all liberals and instead take the advice that you give others, you may find that many of them agree with much of what you're saying about welfare. - JenniferInMO, on 12/27/2008, -6/+16@hong:
My husband and I pay plenty into the system and don't take a penny out. With the exception of 3 months unemployment many years ago I never have taken a dime. We have been hit hard the past few years by a variety of circumstances and health problems that our insurance won't fully cover. I am unable to work due to my health problems, but my husband works hard and we are doing what we can to get by.
I have made mistakes in my life and I have been grateful to have second chances from family, because I was fortunate to have an education and the help of good friends. I worked hard in my life AND I had the good fortune to have help when I needed it. These days one mistake can thrust anyone into poverty for the rest of their lives. Are you saying that it is possible to live a life without making a mistake?
I have also worked with foster children in the system and worked to try to help their parents get back on their feet. Some people do not have the knowledge, intelligence, good health or upbringing to survive on their own or live a lifetime without mistakes. What should we do with those people? Watch them and their children die on our streets? Or do we help them by offering them the services and financial assistance they need to be able to stand on their own two feet?
I feel an incredible amount of satisfaction helping people to help themselves out of drug addiction, out of an illness, or out of an abusive situation to where they can stand on their own two feet and become productive citizens and raise their children to do the same. I am proud to have been a part of helping those people in my little way. Our country should be proud of helping others to help themselves. Would you prefer we let people suffer then die? Or have them stand on the street with their hands out so that people like you can spit on them?
I see a totally broken social services system where poor people are thrown a few hundred dollars a month in food stamps, bus tokens and medicaid. But there aren't enough providers who accept Medicaid, the co pays are too high and they can't afford transportation to get to job interviews or medical appointments.
If you are born into poverty or slip into poverty it is nearly impossible to get out without help. Do you propose that we don't need these people working, feeding their children AND that we don't help them? If so, you are an egocentric idiot.
As far as Nina is concerned I know her. You do not. She does more for herself and for others than you will ever know. I'm sure she doesn't feel like sharing the specifics of her life with you, but I assure you that she is worthy of a helping hand. She is also an intelligent, wise woman who you can not dismiss because she is not currently making big bucks.
Your comments do make me mad (and I am sure that is your intention), but when I think about it I pity you. You have a wrong-headed view of the world and you clearly get it from hate-radio since you have never shown any intellect, rather you just type out hateful talking points. I am honored and thankful to know Nina. If you disappeared from Digg today you would not be missed. - realunderdog, on 12/27/2008, -8/+18I never thought I'd see the day that billions of tax dollars are given to CEOs who sent most of the high paying jobs out of America.....while families sit in homeless shelters because their jobs got destroyed by those same CEOs.
Then they add insult to injury by taxing the rest of us to pay for the lifestyle of muti-millionares who did this too us.
It would be like a robber stealing half the stuff from your house and then suing you for what they couldn't fit in their truck.
The bailout money that went to the banks over the last few months could of stopped EVERY person from having their house forclosed on and would have bought a house for every homeless family.
Instead the money is going to pay big bonuses for CEOs.
@ Tasine: May your belly button touch your spine! - nblsavage, on 12/27/2008, -8/+18Quit feeding the troll. Block and report him and move on.
- ironhide, on 12/27/2008, -1/+11@hookedonjesus, I'll agree in part. I do think the system gets abused but we also have to take in to account that there are people who would literally end up on the street if not for the safety net.
- Striker101, on 12/27/2008, -4/+14Once upon a time, churches and charities handled it better, but Gov tends to run charities out of business.
- booksnmore4you, on 12/27/2008, -14/+24People stand where they sit, or recall where they have once sat, or can sit vicariously.
tasine is experiencing nothing that several months of unemployment or underemployment and loss of heath coverage with a sick child, along with apathetic or inadequate private charity - in short, a real stint in relative poverty - won't cure very quickly. - eir574, on 12/27/2008, -11/+21"that is how we show compassion."
That, and apparently in your case, claiming that you're the only people who have compassion for others. - greenfyre, on 12/27/2008, -12/+21"I'm studying Buddhism "
There's your problem. It is not something you study, it is something you do.
At one temple that I practice at we note that one can study the physiology, anatomy, chemistry, physics etc of taking a *****.. You can study it endlessly in minute detail. One can become the worlds authority on taking a *****, but until you sit down and do it you are still just full of *****.
Crude, but it makes the point. No one got really fit exercising only when they felt like it, much less achieved anything worth mentioning.
It's like love. Love is not a mood or an indulgence. It is a verb. To achieve certain ends it is what you do whether you feel like it or not.
Equally one must use discipline and will to love, and to carry on any spiritual practice, be it Buddhism, Christianity, or other. - thoughtsonthis, on 12/27/2008, -2/+11@realunderdog For that remark about Tasine's husband and Tasine, I think it's time for you to slither back to your rock.
- Stevanoski, on 12/26/2008, -31/+40Yeah, and the minimum wage needs to be raised. Did anyone take note that all of the fiscal crisis we see now started after the min. wage hike?
- eir574, on 12/27/2008, -2/+11@Hong
"Do I have sympathy? Nope. You do drugs, neglect education, get pregnant, commit a crime...etc. "
You've got that right. If a 16 year old with insufficient parental supervision makes a mistake and gets addicted to drugs, which then causes him to neglect his education and/or to commit a crime, he thereby becomes a worthless person who deserves neither society's help nor its sympathy. Or, maybe a smattering of sympathy and/or help here and there until he turns 18, and *then* his life becomes worthless. /s
It's not just a hypothetical story, either. It happens all the time, and I've seen it in my extended family. A cousin whose parents were never there for him ended up getting addicted to drugs around age 16. Totally his fault, of course, but it only takes one or two mistakes to get your brain into a state of chemical dependency such that you can't think clearly. Would you throw his life away if he can't break the addiction without help?
Oh, and having sympathy doesn't mean you approve of other people's bad choices. It means understanding that people in bad situations sometimes make horrible mistakes, and that society may be better off as a whole (for multiple reasons) by trying to get them back on their feet. - nblsavage, on 12/27/2008, -13/+22Well, well, Hongqi12 - still being a practicing Christian I see. Keep practicing and maybe someday you'll figure it out.
- JenniferInMO, on 12/27/2008, -10/+19VRay: I am sorry that you had so many horrible things happen to you and I am impressed that you appeared to pull yourself out financially, but is that all there is to life? Perhaps you should address some of that anger. You seem to despise people who are struggling. You can't be a winner if you treat everyone around you like losers. Jackieblu is a good person and doesn't need or deserve your hate.
- inactive, on 12/27/2008, -5/+14Merry Christmas and Happy New Years from TEXAS!
Schulenburg Texas hopes the best for the whole world.
Join us! =^) -
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