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706 Comments
- starrlaboo, on 07/17/2009, -39/+193White men built the country?? only because women had no say, and any other race were not, by their definition "men"
- Homerr, on 07/17/2009, -29/+166*cough* slaves *cough*
- getoffmybridge, on 07/17/2009, -19/+151We built this country
We built this country on Rock and Rooooooooooooooooooooll - headhot, on 07/17/2009, -15/+112The yellow ones built the railroads. The black ones built the southern agricultural economy.
- nepidae, on 07/17/2009, -22/+94Affirmative action IMO slows down the progression to equality because it both creates new generations of resentful people and allows those getting preferred treatment to work less (and learn less in school) and still be preferred.
- mtjohnson, on 07/17/2009, -9/+71When will white men finally get some power in this country??
- 8ight, on 07/17/2009, -43/+93Pat's argument was confusing. His analogy with the "black folks" on the track team and the hockey team all from Minnesota was humorous. Never mind that he was the one just assuming discrimination with Sotomayor calling her an "Affirmative Action pick". He loses it the latter half of this conversation while Rachel just throttles him.
"You're dating yourself"... You old kook. - Blinker1315, on 07/17/2009, -47/+91Pat Buchanan is symbolic of the rut the GOP is currently in. His anti-semitism, protectionism, anti-immigration views, "morality" views and 1950's mentality are all symptoms of a wing of the Republican party that's comatose.
- thepoliticalcat, on 07/17/2009, -66/+109I think it's time Pat Buchanan was forced into retirement, never again to darken our sight or hearing with his stupid racist, sexist comments.
- cheddaro, on 07/17/2009, -27/+65Wow, good to see someone stand up against affirmative action!
He might be a little off track otherwise, but it's refreshing to see more people calling out that blatantly racist, ***** system of promotion based on skin color.
How ***** backwards can you get? - Mosi13, on 07/17/2009, -4/+42I agree with much you say. Being a white male who is trying to get into med school there are definitely times I wish I had "under represented minority status" cause getting into school would be pretty much be a lock.
It's just affirmative action is a double edge sword, which I think causes a lot of resentment in young whites today. Whites grow up, now, in a pretty diverse environment (depending on what part of the country), but are still told "you're racist" by the powers that be (R.A. training at college spent a whole day drilling into the white R.A. white privilege, and how we're racist for benefiting from it even if we did it unconsciously). What I think a lot of people are under estimating is the confusion that kind of message puts into whites. Yes you're doing a great job being multicultural and colorblind, but you're still racist and we have a system that breeds a lot of resentment.
For example at my first job I was told that even though I was the candidate they wanted, they had to wait 2 weeks to give me the job make sure there were no other candidates who applied who better fit "equal opportunity "employment, because if there was They'd get the job before me...I'm glad they were honest with me, and that I ended up getting the job, but to think that I could have lost the job that I found, based on my skin color (yes I understand the parallels to the pre-civil rights era, but that doesn't make it right) was pretty startling.
I don't know, I understand the reasons behind such systems, but I don't understand how they can be implemented in such a poor way. - sigmaman2, on 07/17/2009, -6/+41You can see for yourself on the track that most of the fastest runners are Black.
You can see for yourself in the swimming pool that most of the fastest swimmers are White.
You can see for yourself on the court that the best basketball players are tall.
You can see for yourself at the track that the best jockeys are short.
And you can see who got into college and who didn't. What you can't see is who got the early preparation to enter a particular college in HS, or whose family had the better access and influence on the admissions board, or which student had to overcome more obstacles to get there.
Affirmative Action isn't perfect I don't think it was supposed to be. But then, neither is the admissions process. Grades and extra-curriculars are one thing. Family money/influence and social biases are something else. - exxon, on 07/17/2009, -16/+48White People Built This Country” — Pat Buchanan
Dam right they did, by purchasing slaves and kidnapping africans. - Homerr, on 07/17/2009, -29/+59Pat meant to say is "built FOR white men".
- Hetman, on 07/17/2009, -2/+32And the pagans were forced off there land and were forced to give up there beliefs and taught the meaning of good ole protestant shame.
- kingmanic, on 07/17/2009, -8/+37Right.. those lazy Asians making taking up all the top percentiles in college and being under represented as corporate executives, in media and as politicians. It's because they're preferred.
- gizram84, on 07/17/2009, -27/+55Affirmative action will ruin this country. It is based on racist principals and by definition it rewards people of lesser talent, education and skill.
- DBLOCK916, on 07/17/2009, -10/+378ight, Pat's argument was simple: If there are 8 spots on the track team, and 7 of them are black, he's not going to simply assume that who ever picked the 7 blacks is biased. Instead, he's going to assume that they got the job because they were the fastest during qualifying. What's hard to follow about that?
- IAMRaven, on 07/17/2009, -3/+29BLACK MAN says "power to my people" = Hero.
WHITE MAN says "power to my people" = Racist.
Can some BLACK person care to explain this to me. Yes I am aware of slavery. Are all people to be held accountable for the sins of their fathers? If your father knocked over a liquor store, should YOU go to jail for that? - ZenMojo, on 07/17/2009, -10/+35Wait? So black people and women and other minorities weren't in World War II or the Civil War? Could have fooled me.
I'm tired of this White Supremacist historical revisionism *****. *****, one of the dudes who raised the flag at Iwo Jima was NATIVE AMERICAN.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=blacks+in+World ...
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=wo ...
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=As ...
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=Na ...
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&q=La ...
Pat Buchanan, whose entire historical knowledge of American History is based on John Wayne movies. - Goathead2008, on 07/17/2009, -7/+32If you don't like people who get preferred treatment and work less than you, try hating RICH PEOPLE.
- inactive, on 07/17/2009, -2/+27A brilliant man? Who are you talking about? This thread is about Pat Buchanan.
- moses141, on 07/17/2009, -3/+25The big problem I see with his argument is that most of the people in Washington were the beneficiaries of another kind of "affirmative action" -- legacy.
I'm surprised that Maddow didn't bring up Bush when Buchannan started talking about Sotomayor's not deserving to get into an Ivy League school. Clearly, Bush was not accepted to Yale and HBS for his genius.
As a minority, I'm all for phasing out affirmative action. But this guy is nuts if he thinks the old white men in DC or on the Court are there because they are the absolute best for the job. They're there because their fathers were there... - WafflesID, on 07/17/2009, -58/+79I'm torn. I understand the purpose of affirmative action, and i think it is a necessary evil to compensate for the hundreds of years that proceed the present. But at the same time, if there are others that ARE in fact more qualified, they should get the jobs. BUT because there are still minorities who are being discriminated, we need affirmative action.
Do I think Obama picked Sonya BECAUSE she is a latina woman....***** hell no. I think she happened to match his criteria while also happening to be a latina woman.
I think affirmative action will need to disappear after 1 ...possibly 2 more generations. Still too much discrimination right now to say that it isn't needed. - gaqua, on 07/17/2009, -13/+33I'm going to go into a restaurant, murder all the chefs, bring in mexicans against their will to become my new chefs, then serve food to people and take all the credit as Head Chef.
- harpoonhank420, on 07/17/2009, -3/+22Are you for real?
- kingmanic, on 07/17/2009, -0/+19My Chinese great great great grandfather.
- StanleyKoolPrik, on 07/17/2009, -1/+18Because that's what democracy is all about: silencing people who have different ideas than you.
- ZenMojo, on 07/17/2009, -8/+25What bothers me most is that Pat Buchanan's entire premise is based on a fallacy. That of white male monopoly over creative endeavor in the United States. Non-whites and females have always been inventors, architects, builders, engineers, and brilliant minds as well. White people benefit at least as much from the contributions of non-whites based solely on population distribution and growth. There is another bigotry in the idea of minorities being nothing more than an oppressed/enslaved group never capable of rising to positions of prominence that undermines historical reality. It is one in which minorities and females are poorly-cared for tools of a white male intellectual regime, and that simply is not the case.
Unfortunately, our textbooks pay little more than lip service to the contributions of minorities and women, so it is little wonder that white children grow up ignorant of the reality that is their past. I blame idiots like Buchanan and a lazy education system. - kingmanic, on 07/17/2009, -5/+22The thing with most good jobs are that they are not advertised or are advertised in a very limited way. Often people are hired via their social network. Perhaps interning at your fathers friends company then working there after college. Or being hired by your college rooms mates dad. Or having your father set it up so you become president of the united states of America. etc... A lot of great jobs are completely invisible to people outside of those networks so affirmative action tries to hook up minorities to those networks or to allow them proportionate access to government or government related jobs. I agree It should disappear if the ratio of a certain ethnicity in industry at all levels is roughly the same as their actual proportion.
- NinjaDolemite, on 07/17/2009, -0/+16man, I was prepared to say
"I'm a liberal, but I have to admit Buchanan made a much stronger argument here..."
Legacy as another kind of affirmative action is a really good analogy. - ZenMojo, on 07/17/2009, -22/+38Let's put it this way. Sotomayor is the most qualified Supreme Court justice in 70 years, graduated Summa Cum Laude from the best University in the country, and was on the Yale Law Review. Add to that 17 years as an appellate judge, which gives her more judicial experience upon her nomination than the other judges had.
Pat Buchanan, a white man in power who got decent grades from Georgetown, considers her neither particularly intelligent nor adequately capable of matching his credentials, let alone getting a Supreme Court position.
Affirmative Action is NECESSARY as long as someone's race makes others think of you as LESS QUALIFIED regardless of ALL EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. Affirmative Action creates resentment, yes, but often it creates resentment among those who never stood a chance. Those people would come up with other reasons to hold back minorities. Case in point: Pat Buchanan. - rocknog, on 07/17/2009, -5/+21Heh, it opened up, I thought he was going to make a semi-valid point about affirmative action (there are some bad things about it, but I think most people who attack it tend to dismiss the notion that discrimination against minorities still happens in this country), but no, he goes off on some tangent about how white people apparently deserve to be above minorities. What is all this ***** about white people building this country? Minorities didn't have a choice. He mentions all of these battles and whatnot which were fought by white people, while neglecting that minorities were prohibited from fighting alongside white people. It's no accident that our history has played out the way it has - it was discrimination and racism that made it like that.
What he's doing is basically defending a system which has put white people in a position of privilege specifically because minorities were held back. While he may not be supporting or embracing things like slavery and Jim Crow, he's certainly embracing the products of them. - HEAVYisSPY, on 07/17/2009, -11/+27yeah, he's a douche, but affirmative action is just racism - no other way to describe it.
/non-white - manjar, on 07/17/2009, -1/+16Dugg down for getting that god-awful song stuck in my head. Curses!
- ironhide, on 07/17/2009, -8/+23"Alex Jones' show exposing the New world order"
Oh good, he's a racist ***** and he's also completely insane. - Flagg3, on 07/17/2009, -5/+19His argument is simple, but fundamentally flawed.
He is making an argument about something that can be measured in only one single way. There is no subjectivity to who wins or loses a race. Qualifications to be a Supreme Court Justice are not quite so black and white.
Of course, ideally the person who is most qualified should always get the job, but rarely in life does that happen. One of the main problems with this argument is that while it sounds completely fair, it is naturally biased to White Males. It's not unlike after the Civil War, when constitutional amendments were passed by a number of U.S. Southern states which created new literacy restrictions on voting. It sounded fair on the face of it: All persons must pass a literacy test in order to vote, regardless of race. But of course it allowed men to vote, even if they did not meet new requirements, if they had ancestors who had had the right to vote before the Civil War (effectively limiting the exemption exclusively to white men).
Along the exact same lines, it's unfair to use a subjective test that states that someone is inherently more qualified than someone else simply because they don't necessarily have the same background credentials of another person when you consider that Sonya Sotomayor grew up in a time when it was still legal to discriminate against someone on the basis of race. While that doesn't mean that she should necessarily be given preference because of that fact, it certainly shouldn't be used against her either.
Sonya Sotomayor is absolutely qualified to become a Supreme Court Justice. Is she the absolute best candidate in the entire world? Probably not. Was she picked because she was a Latina, probably. But I think everyone can also agree that there was never a case in history where any Supreme Court Justice was the absolute most qualified for the job at the time they were appointed. Justices are picked because they share the same views of the party that nominates them, or as a compromise to ensure that they get enough votes to get appointed, or for any number of other political reasons.
Until the day comes when the only criteria for picking a justice is that they are the absolute most qualified person for the job, arguing the same thing about a minority appointment is inane, and unfortunately, fairly racist in and of itself. - ironhide, on 07/17/2009, -9/+23Here comes the deflection.
- inactive, on 07/17/2009, -4/+17Well, white people made this country what it was back then. Let's recap.
- Slave trade
- White power base (Star Families, i.e., George Washington) The great experiment
- Killed Indians and stole their land
- Created a racial divide and made a power grab for the entire country
Sure, the railroads, cotton mills, and all other industry were owned and operated by the white man, but the labor part of the building was done by minorities. (Initially)
Let's talk about after Slavery, and a great deal of bigotry was overcome so that minorities could contribute intellectually to our fair nation. I think Mr. Buchanan missed a great many contributors of non-white color.
Sounds right to me.
- White Guy of Italian / Polish decent - Yage2006, on 07/17/2009, -7/+20You forgot to add anti-science and anti-intellectual to the list.
My main 2 reasons for hating them. - rocknog, on 07/17/2009, -3/+16I'm not saying you're wrong, but... Well, without affirmative action, it's still the case in this country that a white job applicant is much more likely to be hired than an equally qualified black job applicant. Maybe affirmative action isn't the solution, but clearly something has to be done, doesn't it? Or do we just accept it?
- lakerswinagain, on 07/17/2009, -3/+16i haven't seen white people this mad since they cancelled "dharma and greg."
- kingofinternet, on 07/17/2009, -14/+26the white ones committed genocide on the indigenous people too. will pat trumpet that responsibility too?
- AlienMushroom, on 07/17/2009, -4/+16Tell me who built the railroad.
- masamunecyrus, on 07/17/2009, -4/+16“Preferential affirmative action patronizes American blacks, women, and others by presuming that they cannot succeed on their own. Preferential affirmative action does not advance civil rights in this country.” -- Alan Keyes
Affirmative action is as racist as the racist people it's supposed to guard against. Minorities that support affirmative action don't show that they want race equality, it just shows that they're OK with racism as long as it isn't again them.
If there is to be any sort of affirmative action, it should be based strictly on social class and environment. Destitution is not limited to hispanic and black folk. There are poor, disadvantaged white kids and jews, too. - Anomaly100, on 07/17/2009, -2/+14No, YOU remember THIS comment: Your mother gave birth to you & wiped the snot from your nose & butt. A woman sewed this country's flag, or so they say. We have great authors, athletes, we fight wars, pass bills, we'police the streets, we've been raped, killed, treated like 2nd class citizens. In some parts of the world all a man has to do to get a divorce is say "I divorce thee, I divorce thee, I divorce thee!" If not, they are set on fire and killed. There are parts of the world where females are given forced sometimes circumcisions so they don't enjoy sex...ever. Female soldiers in Darfur are raped by the very men that are supposed to watch their back in war. Some females are treated like cargo with forced prostitution and sold as sex slaves. The sufferagettes are spinning in their graves from what you said. We didn't "get" the vote, some women died for it.
I look at it this way....we've never had a female president. If a man hadn't held office, perhaps, just maybe, war would not happen so frequently. Then, money would be saved, blood would not be spilled so wrecklessly and this country would thrive once more. But, be misogynistic and see how far that gets you in life. After all, we do occupy half of the population. So, in 50 yrs when your old and bitter remember, you could have been more generous with your thoughts & words.
You will either live your life alone, or you're with a woman you've ridiculed into submission. Not a happy life, for either of you. (Thank you for standing up for my gender! pfft!) - inactive, on 07/17/2009, -4/+16"Why use affirmative action to appoint someone to the Supreme Court?"
When that actually happens, let me know. - allfatherblack, on 07/17/2009, -4/+15And then later say you built the restaurant?
- Anomaly100, on 07/17/2009, -1/+12Brilliant? Well, that depends on how high you set your standards. I think he's not so bright, but, I like to set my standards of who I find brilliant fairly high. But that's just me- How were his words "distorted"? It was televised and unedited.
- inactive, on 07/17/2009, -17/+28Hey Pat. GO ***** YOURSELF.
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