What is Digg?155 Comments
- wiremonkeymommy, on 10/12/2007, -14/+216IRS goons harass and intimidate an elderly couple on a fixed income who are shining examples of reducing our dependence on foreign oil?? They should've been stopping by to present them with an award!!
- dracostimpy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+100FYI, the Illinois Dept of Revenue != IRS.
Not that it matters much, since it's a racket either way. If you'd like an example of the IRS harassing an elderly couple, check this out:
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=19652 - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+72The worst thing is, it seems they cannot legally collect these taxes as the law stands.
They attempted to make him register as a 'special fuel supplier and receiver', because, as a spokesman for the department of revenue explained, "Wetzel has to register as a supplier because the law states that is the only way he can pay motor fuel tax."
However a Special Fuel Supplier is defined as someone with an "active bulk storage capacity of not less than 30,000 gallons."
A Receiver is described as a person who produces, distributes or transports fuel into the state.
So Mr Wetzel is neither.
It seems the department of revenue is trying to bend the law to enable them to collect taxes for something which is not taxable under current legislation. - dracostimpy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+72Looks like someone didn't RTFA.
"a Republican State Senator has introduced a State bill "...which would curtail government interference regarding alternative fuels, such as vegetable oil."
FYI... Illinois is a notoriously Dem-leaning state (mainly because of Chicago). This is a problem of government in general, not the GOP. - thcobbs, on 10/12/2007, -13/+67Sorry to nitpick, but "fixed income" is a ***** to incur sympathy whether or not it's needed.
For example, I'm on a fixed income as well. I get a certain amount of money every two weeks from my company. - JoCliMe, on 10/12/2007, -8/+49It's all the Mythbusters' fault.
- Arbinshire, on 10/12/2007, -14/+45@knomevol
Hey, perhaps it's time you learn to read and see past your liberal firewall.
"State legislators have rallied to help the Wetzels. State Sen. Frank Watson, R-Greenville, introduced Senate Bill 267, which would curtail government interference regarding alternative fuels, such as vegetable oil." Translation: It was a democrat who introduced the original tax. - Smuikas, on 10/12/2007, -13/+44The reason the Dept of Revenue is up in arms about this, is because part of the tax on fuel goes to pay for road upkeep. As pointed out in a comment on the blog. Free energy for cars is a dream, but how then do you help pay for road upkeep? Should every road be a toll road?
Or should we add a line on our vehicle tax to include (current mileage - last year's mileage [or mileage of car when bought, if bought less than a year ago])? - dracostimpy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+29Nope, it's not the IRS, either:
"This January, the State of Illinois Dept. of Revenue sent 2 special agents, Gary May and John Egan to his house." - spurtle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25Wasn't taxes on fuel initially supposed reduce the consumption of gas and also fund research on alternative energy sources?
- kayosthery, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24@ mightydavefish:
I swear some of you people just talk out of your ass around here........ - LesterKing, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22@ Arbinshire
Are you stupid? Politicians are pro-tax - Twango, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21That's the kind of stupid bureaucratic BS that the former Soviet Union USED to be famous for.
- cyclelicious, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15@mightydave: It was a GOP senator who introduced a bill to eliminate the tax on recycled vegetable oil. The current governor, Rod Blagojevich, is a Chicago Democrat. Both the state Senate and House have Democrat majorities. Both U.S. Senators from Illinois are Democrats -- you might have heard of them if you read the news, especially a certain junior Senator. 10 of the 19 U.S. Representatives belong to the DNC; some of them are also nationally famous.
- quakerorts, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Why do some in the government treat us like criminals?! These heavy handed government goons need to be reprimanded. I fully understand the whole fuel tax/road maintenance issue of homemade fuels (I've thought about it for years), but the issue here is the WAY these guys approached it! You do not go around scaring and threatening people with felony charges and huge tax bills. AND YOU DON'T SHOW UP UNANNOUNCED WITH YOUR CRIMINAL INVESTIGATORS! You start by going to the legislature and asking how this should be handled. Then you send letters to people you know who are doing this. And you don't go for retroactive taxes either. This is a new situation that needs to be dealt with proactively. STOP TREATING INNOCENT TAXPAYERS LIKE CRIMINALS!
- knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -16/+29@ arbinshire:
does it look like all that much has changed since the "democrat takeover"?
doesn't look that way to me. democrats are the other side of the same two-faced coin. - DangerMouse9, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17@N00F
Yeah, we all know that the one person that's been doing this for years is the cause of them not fixing the potholes in po-dink Illinois. - willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11any different than California trying to collect property tax on a satellite?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11@darkstar949
"More likely you would be paying a mileage tax, or they would just lump some additional taxes in with your vehicle registration. My bet would be for taxes when you do your vehicle registration due to the fact that trying to tax someone purely based off of the miles they drive would be needlessly complicated."
Try telling that to Tony Blair. They are trying to do exactly that here in the UK. They want to tax people for the milage they do, more on busy roads, even more at peak times.This will almost certainly involve some form of tracking device in all cars. Talk about Big Brother...
With the mess that NeoLabour have made of most things they've done so far, I can see this being another black hole for them to chuck our money into. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14"The people at the department of revenue apparently feel they need to regulate him in some way."
And that is the root of the problem. Rather than realising that he doesn't fall under any of their rules, never should, and should instead be held up as an example - they are trying to make an example of him for daring to to do something.
The head of that department should be sacked as a message to others. - griz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11If this is about taxation to keep the roads going, then it's high time we rethink where we collect our taxes.
If you think about it, the guy getting 15 miles/gallon is actually paying more to support the roads than the guy getting 30 miles/gal. Afterall, the 15 mile/gallon guy is paying the same tax at the pump and only going half the distance on the road. Should he be entitled to a tax credit?
People who use alternative fuels should be rewarded, not punished. Get the road tax out of the fuel cost and perhaps it will get people more incentive to find alternatives.
Hell, I can now see why there is no large push by the government to force higher fuel economy. The lower the fuel economy, the more money they make per mile of road traveled. A Win all around for them. - davymac, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10i almost agree with phoephus.. but dracostimpy is right.. not the IRS.... and yes, has nothing to do with GOP, just that the government needs to collect tax on something to repair the roads, etc
- morphkons, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Sorry-
100% of the power that drives a Prius comes from burning gasoline in the engine. Some of it is stored tempoarily in the battery for use during high demand periods but it all came from the gasoline engine. Forget about the regenerative braking the engine was responsible for getting the car up to speed. - xcoastie, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11If you use propane as a fuel for your car or truck you must also pay road tax on it. This should not be surprising to anyone. When electric cars become popular you will still have to pay some sort of tax on electricity also. The government will get its money one way or another.
- cypherz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11I dugg both of you down. Whereismyreagan for not reading the article and you Mike for using the phrase "liberal *****". Mike, how is name calling better than not reading the article? I get that you strongly dislike Liberals, but how is all the name calling going to help do anything but polarize people (and opinions) even more? You won't win any arguments or sway anyone to your point of view that way.
- HarryBauzonia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Correction:
The government will get OUR money one way or another. - mwsherman, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13This is just genius. If you follow the train of thought of the Department of Revenue, every Prius onwer will have to install a tax meter to keep track of how much energy is being put into the battery from rolling and applying the brakes.
- mikeswimm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8People are missing the point here.
The issue is that states pay for road repairs by using fuel taxes. If you make your own fuel you are using roads and not paying your fair share to maintain them.
This law is another example of how failure of leadership more than technology is defeating alternative fuels. Because the tax is tied to gas, it hurts any alternative.
A simple solution would be to tax people on 1. the number of miles they drive a year, and 2. the weight of their vehicle, since those are the biggest factors in how much damage they do to roads.
That would be a fair tax, and it would not hurt alternative fuels. - flave, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@smuikas
I realize that part of the fuel tax goes towards road upkeep, but I call ***** on that excuse. The Illinois tollways are some of the worst stretches of road I've ever had the displeasure of driving on, yet they bring in about $0.60/per car that drives through EACH toll (I averaged the full toll price and the IPass which is half the normal - obviously trucks and semis pay more). In any case, despite the massive income being brought in on the tollways, the interstates are always in awful condition.
Cross the border into Wisconsin or Indiana and the road instantly becomes a far better driving experience. Less bumps and cracks and it's quieter as a result. If they're really using the toll money to fix the roads, why doesn't it show? I realize a lot of cars drive on the interstate, but a lot of them drive between IL and WI and yet Wisconsin's side is well maintained. Why the discrepancy? Especially given that Wisconsin doesn't use a toll system, has less fees for car ownership, AND gas is cheaper. - catalysis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I thought Bush cut taxes on earned income. Anyways, if you live in Illinois, your taxes mostly go to support the extravagent lifestyles of the politicians' families and friends as well as the democrat political machine.
- thefurryone, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@mike10732
One word wrecks your argument: "bicycle". - ajkrik, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7MIke . . . put on you're thinking cap. What vehicles do the most damage to the roads? Trucks . . . including oil and gas trucks. If he's using recycled oil there isn't an gas truck tearing up his portion of the road. We all pay one way or the other. The issue here is law enforcement (revenue agents) harassing people over 300 dollars worth of supposed tax.
- ipodwheels, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11That is just crazy. This makes me think that the government will stoop so low as to fine us with taxes if we go out of the ordinary and not support them with their relationships with our oil importers. No wonder people still think that if a person in this country perfects cold fusion or finds a way to get rid of gasoline, they will be killed.
Are we really, tied down to using gasoline just because it proves to be a lucrative business partnership between us and our middle eastern "friends".
I think Americans are already dependent on gasoline as this article implies http://www.autopartsplace.com/american-driver-hooked-on-gasoline.htm - unknamed, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I have a feeling that at least one person from the Illinois Dept. of Revenue will be looking for a new job soon. I realize that the "special agent" and his "colleague" were just doing their job, but sometimes you just have to stop and say "what the ***** am I doing here?"
I just hope they fire the right person, the one who should have said "Threaten a senior citizen with a felony for $244.24?? No, that's a bad idea." - pizpot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8I know, tax the odometer, not the fuel. Then the mess goes away.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12News flash, you already pay a hefty tax on gas. It goes direclty to fixing and building the roads you drive on with that gas. Does using a different kind of fuel somehow make roads build and fix themselves?
It is a perfectly fair tax, since the more you use it the more you pay. - TheGilmanator, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6This is why we can't have nice things.
- emfb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"should I pay tax for walking on them every night with my wife? or riding my bike? "
If you weigh 2000lbs then the answer is yes. - laplacian, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6The article is incomprehensible blogspam. The original actually makes sense: http://www.herald-review.com/articles/2007/03/01/news/local_news/1021491.txt
- WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9"Ya, taxes suck, but you gotta pay for the services you get from the government, and I'd MUCH rather pay for them than let the government borrow money and have to pay for it later, plus interest."
Ahh but you ARE 'paying for it later'. as they keep spending money that they borrow, at interest, from the Federal Reserve (an independent international bankers cartel that is not part of the US gov't), the supply of (fiat) American dollars increases, thereby decreasing the purchasing power of each dollar.
That is why prices keep rising all the time during your life. ('the hidden tax known as inflation')
So you are paying for it later, and your grandkids will still be paying, as serfs/wage-slaves...for all the current, outrageous government spending-on-credit by a few crooks like Cheney and the Bush crime family.
As G Spencer Brown
http://www.the7thfire.com/SR/mandrake_mechanism.htm
points out, the government is bankrupt, and subsists entirely by borrowing money, at interest, from the federal reserve, which controls the money supply. - dboylon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4More proof that the government is just a more powerful version of the mafia
- Fhwqhgads, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Protecting business interests while ***** on the little guy. Nothing out of the ordinary here.
- DeFex, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4There is a fine line between the Government (any) and the Mafia.
sending "special agents" around to someones house to intimidate them is on the wrong side. - firepig, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Most of the good points have been made, but please bear with me as I try to hit all the important ones. Most libertarians would support use taxes. Of course in states like mine, California, the legislator drains off a portion of the gas tax money for other purposes. That's not acceptable. The law in Illinois does not specifically cover this case, a fault in the law. The jack-booted approach of the "special agents" should not be tolerated in a so-called free society. Although as a libertarian I'm not in favor of taxes or credits, given the current system I agree with the poster who said people who use/experiment with alternative fuel should both pay the use tax and receive a credit for the positive contribution their efforts are making to society.
- jpop, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I'm seeing a lot of confusing stuff in this thread. This is a state tax and not a federal tax, correct? ie. Blame Illinois and not Bush?
- randf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4bbaker, i feel your pain.
i just recently moved to virginia and had to register my cars there. after forking over an amount similar to what you paid to the state, i got the bonus news that i owe "taxes" to my county as well.
yearly va. county taxes are paid based on the value of your car...newer car, higher tax paid...on the order of $400!
so...gas tax pays the roads, state registration pays for the "paper and aluminum", what exactly am i getting from my county for having a highly taxed car?? - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7"The IRS are mindless drones who exist soleley to enforce Tax legislation as is. They do make mistakes, but they generally have a good understanding of the tax laws. They don't care about fairness. As far as they see it, this guy simply isn't paying the tax that the tax laws say he should pay. Ignorance is no excuse"
And speaking of 'ignorance', au contraire, they enforce 'laws' that don't actually exist, by collecting taxes on an individual's labor. They do so illegally, but they still put people in jail, or ruin their lives and businesses...all without the backing of any explicit, actual law!
They are nothing but thugs, with armed enforcers who do their dirty work!
The 16th Amendment was never properly ratified by a sufficient number of states to make it law. And further, the Supreme Court stated that the 16th amendment "granted no new taxing power" to the federal government.
And before it, clearly, the fedreal gov't had no legal power to tax your labor, when you live and work in the US and are a US citizen.
You may want to check out Aaron Russo's well-researched film,
"America:From Freedom to Fascism"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198 - CurtHowland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Get government out of roads.
That way, no tax.
The people who build and operate the roads will figure out a way to fund them, be it tolls, subscriptions, "community pledge drives", whatever. - powerclam, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Treehugger.org? The SOURCE article is at
http://digg.com/environment/Using_vegetable_oil_as_fuel_in_your_car_Please_pay_the_state_2500_first
from
http://www.herald-review.com/articles/2007/03/01/news/local_news/1021491.txt - ichbinladen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Why do innocents always suffer at the hands of the rabid tax man? If Thomas Jefferson and gang were alive, we'd be hanging tax men, not running in fear from them.
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