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139 Comments
- WeNeedTruth, on 12/11/2007, -19/+75Firefighting for profit? That's insane, and it also creates a motive for them to start fires to keep expanding!
- umbriago, on 12/11/2007, -6/+51Jesus Christ on a stick. This has got to be the most twisted-around story I've ever seen. They're not fighting fires "for profit." Insurance companies have found it's cheaper to have their own FDs protecting the houses they insure than to pay a lot of claims. If you spend $2 million a year on a private firefighting staff and they save $60 million in claims, does that strike you as a horrible injustice? Not if your insurance premiums are lower, and your house is still standing.
Also - Bush has nothing, nothing at all to do with this, and yes, he's the worst president ever. "Yeah, just throw a Bush reference in there," the writer was undoubtedly told. - principle, on 12/11/2007, -6/+40Private police and private military are next.
- McGrude, on 12/11/2007, -13/+37Hmm... sounds like healthcare.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -8/+30principle: I guess you haven't heard of Blackwater, because they are already policing our streets here & acting as our military in many countries.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -11/+29More Republican privatization, lining their cronies' pockets while making it more expensive & less effective. Aka: more right wing corruption.
- ChristPissed, on 12/11/2007, -9/+27The corporate welfare system is expanding into new revenue streams to gouge the taxpayer.
- socalrob, on 12/11/2007, -5/+22"sorry your home insurance requires a $2000 deductible before we can start putting out this fire. Fill out these forms and we will need a urine sample. The firefighters will call you when ready. WIll that be cash, check or charge?"
- duggtodeath, on 12/11/2007, -9/+24Don't forget, they will merge private firefighters with that plan to have firemen check for "suspicious" materials in citizens homes. This is doubleplusungood :(
- DeviantDragon, on 12/11/2007, -7/+21The "under Bush" tag is such ***** really. Guess when Blackwater was founded? 1997. I guess UNDER CLINTON, contractors created a privatized military and security team. I know you're thinking that it's ***** to make that conclusion. Well you're right. Just like it's ridiculous to tag this incident to Bush.
- hoshizakistar, on 12/11/2007, -2/+16too late.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_Worldwide - DesignerDave, on 12/11/2007, -0/+12This really doesn't seem like it has much to do with Bush...
Insurance agencies found it cheaper to build their own firefighting teams to prevent fires from destroying valuable clients home than to actually give them the insurance money if the house were to burn down. - avalys, on 12/11/2007, -1/+12This story has absolutely no credibility. For one thing, they don't even get the company's name right - AIG does _not_ stand for American Insurance Group.
Second, the real story here is that the California _government_ is so ***** inept and incompetent that insurance companies have had to resort to fighting fires themselves, rather than watch their customers' homes burn to the ground and have to pay out. This is not fire-fighting for profit. - jabrthel, on 12/11/2007, -1/+12I suppose, under that logic, that a doctor... whether it be under privatized medicine or socialized medicine, would keep his patient sick just so that the patient would keep paying for treatments or the government would keep paying for his treatments. It's a wonder how anyone ever heals under such a horrendous profit motive!!!!
Besides, they are able to pinpoint how these fires are started and where. That's why that kid in SoCal was facing possible charges until authorities decided not to press them. It would be idiotic for these fire companies to start fires since they would be caught. Anyway, what makes you think government firefighters wouldn't start their own fires? If they did, it would scare people into pushing for more funding for them, and since the gov't firefighters are usually the ones that inspect the cause of fires, they would never get caught!!! I don't actually believe that would happen, but it is a lot more likely than what you are proposing. - DucoNihilum, on 12/11/2007, -0/+10I'd like to know what the ***** any of this has to do with Bush.....
I had issues in my Math 120 exam recently, Bush is in office, it MUST be his fault! - dondara, on 12/11/2007, -1/+10That frown is thought crime. Please report to a re-education center immediately.
- DucoNihilum, on 12/11/2007, -2/+11Not really. Considering that would be ILLEGAL, regardless. I suppose selling watches might give the motivation for watch companies to go out and break all the watches they can find, but in real life that doesn't happen.
- DeviantDragon, on 12/11/2007, -2/+10Actually, the things that Libertarians and Ron Paul would not privatize are goods and services that defend everybody's rights, ie: police and military since they go towards protecting the universal right to protection against other infringing on your rights to safety. Firefighting also falls into this category since everybody pays into it and everybody benefits.
- DucoNihilum, on 12/11/2007, -3/+10If you knew anything about economics you would realize that when you make something PUBLIC it's more expensive and less effective- not the other way around..... Not that I support privatizing police / fire / etc....
- kammy4u, on 12/11/2007, -0/+7Over 3/4 of the nation's firefighters are volunteer. Fire Departments are funded by local government not federal. Most communities can not afford to hire full time personnel and no one wants to volunteer anymore. It used to be that there were waiting lists to get on volunteer departments, now there are shortages. The reason insurance companies are creating privately owned departments is to save themselves money because you people are too lazy to help your own community.
- slezzzter, on 12/11/2007, -0/+7Actually, if you RTFA, you'll see that these private fire squads are being set up by insurance companies. If they set a fire, just to put it out, the insurance company will lose money on the claim. Public fire services make sense because in cities and wildfire areas, a small fire can become a major catastrophe. Private ones also make sense for insurance companies to hedge their risk. Insurance company controlled firefighters have no incentive to commit arson, only to prevent loss.
- DucoNihilum, on 12/11/2007, -3/+10Really? Is that what they're doing, or are they offering it on top of the FF service right now for a nominal fee? This isn't rome.
As for the healthcare comment- are you kidding me?
Seriously- are you ***** kidding me? Doctors don't go around breaking other peoples legs to get money - Alpione, on 12/11/2007, -1/+8Surely you're kidding... Only a true idiot would say that government run organizations are more efficient and cost less than their privatized equivalents. The government can (and does) run at a substantial loss where there's no incentive for efficiency. If a CEO runs a private company that way he's out on his ass. This is why I just don't get liberal economics - we see every single day how poorly run government is (been to the DMV lately?) but they still want the government to run everything. More taxes, more social welfare, gov't run health care. Even the socialist-leaning European countries are coming around to the truth that government nanny-ism stunts growth. France, of all place, just elected a free market president. And good on 'em for it...
- BrewmasterC, on 12/11/2007, -0/+6People who build in forests should pay for their own fire protection. Usually they do this by buying home owner's insurance, and thus the insurance companies provide them with fire protection. This is what is insidious about federal flood insurance. Who has a financial incentive to look out for those homeowners? The levies in New Orleans would had held if the insurance companies were on the hook and looking out for their customers.
- MyEyesWideOpen, on 12/11/2007, -0/+6This is a direct result of the IAFF spending years helping gouge local taxpayers with high pay and unsustainable retirement benefits. Now it's coming back to haunt them and people want to cry foul.
Worried about privates starting fire? What about FDNY firefighters driving slowly to calls to falsely inflate the time to get there and give the illusion that more firefighters and stations are needed. - mciampa1214, on 12/11/2007, -0/+6This isn't actually Fascism, rather a pretty good example of capitalism. When the market fails to provide something, in this case greater insurance against losing one's house to a fire, someone will step in and provide that service assuming there is a large enough demand for them to gain a profit.
- jabrthel, on 12/11/2007, -0/+6I fail to see how this is corporate welfare... whatever your views on the situation are, these firefighters were paid for by private citizens, NOT government... Of course if you think it is corporate welfare when private citizens buy a new computer, then yes, you're correct. Although, that would be one of the oddest definitions for corporate welfare.
- zepplin99, on 12/11/2007, -3/+8Commiting on the statement 'Firefighting for profit? That's insane, and it also creates a motive for them to start fires to keep expanding!'
You mean like anti-virus software for your computer.... :-) - inactive, on 12/11/2007, -0/+5Umm, wrong. There were no damn papers. There was no bureaucracy like that from the private sector. Now the 6-7 hours from the public firefighters, that could soon be a fact. The government NEVER does anything efficiently. Is it AIG's fault that the tax-funded service is so inept that they had to employ fire fighters to protect their clients' assets?
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -1/+6This is the logical solution to the incompetent and retarded public service. Obviously the people in charge of publicly funded fire departments are too inept to handle the homes in their stead, so AIG and other insurance agencies are protecting their assets via private fire fighters. Sorry that the private sector always trumps 'public' services, but it's a fact. Get home owner's insurance with fire protection since obviously your tax dollars aren't being use properly.
- mciampa1214, on 12/11/2007, -0/+5These companies aren't trying to drive public fire fighting services out of business. I'm sure everyone who hires one of these companies still pays their taxes which pay for the public fire houses. It's a very similar argument to people sending their children to private schools, most of the time they continue to pay the taxes that provide the public schools.
- jeffiek, on 12/11/2007, -0/+5Lets see if I've got this right
1)"Rancho Bernardo, a wealthy San Diego community that lost 365 homes during the October fires, has just one fire station for a 24-mile area."
2) "some richer homeowners had their own private army."
3) "his unit was able to extinguish a fire in a nearby uninsured home."
First the government fails in its self-proclaimed duty to protect its citizens. Second, some people provide their own protection (at no detriment to anyone). And third, that protection gets extended to some of the helpless.
So of course, the politician proclaims "“It’s a terrible mistake to have to go to private firefighting,”
Talk about the classic robber yelling "stop thief".
While I'm here, "privatization" is a bastardized term if there ever was one. It is created by following the standard English rules to turn the phrase "to make private" into a noun. However, this isn't what happens. Private in this sense means no government, but guess who's paying the bill? You got it, government pays a contractor for services provided to a third party. That is anything but a private transaction.
Don't fall for it. - pandlcg, on 12/11/2007, -4/+8I remember reading somewhere that firefighters used to be privatized and people that paid would post proof on the outside of the house. The problem was that if a firetruck showed up and the house had paid a different private firefighter organization the first firetruck would just drive away.
I think it was in the book "The Corporation" - insllvn, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Oh when will this ill fated war on fire end!?!
- jeffsback2223, on 12/11/2007, -3/+7Private police? already have em. they're called rent-a-cops.
- BohicaTwentyTwo, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4And the alternative is, what, to have the government create a $10 billion public firefighting army?
- kammy4u, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Nothing, it has nothing to do with Bush. The federal government has very little to do with local fire service.
- 15charmaxwtf, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Just like food companies profit from people who get hungry. They go around stealing food and sabotaging opponent farmers fields, you know! Damn those coat makers who profit from the cold weather! Damn those water companies who turn a profit from thirst. That's super insane! Damn those evil doctors who profit from ill people, they could go around poisoning food, yah know!
etc etc - PhantomBantam, on 12/11/2007, -0/+4Society does not collapse when socialist systems are taken away. And if you think it is so terrible to fight fire for profit, why should we bother paying firefighters in the first place?
Firefighters could continue to fight fire to help people, regardless if they are paid by the government or not. And competition (if the government stays out) would be able to keep the price low. Don't think poor people's apartments would burn down, as no landlord could be stupid enough not to pay for. Not to mention charity. - pintomp3, on 12/11/2007, -1/+5b b b but clinton! back then blackwater was only involved in training. eric prince made huge donations to the bush campaign. in 2002, Blackwater Security Consulting was formed and they got huge contracts for the afghanistan and iraq wars. they have received over $1 billion in contracts.
- Wiwoz, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Yes it is. Contravention of law does not entail discovery or punishment. That's why there are unsolved cases.
- 15charmaxwtf, on 12/11/2007, -1/+4Perhaps you should read at least one word he said.
- SammyJr, on 12/11/2007, -2/+5Yesterday, I went to the DMV to update my address and register to vote. I was in and out in 10 minutes. Easy as pie.
- ricree, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3No bid government contracts are pretty far away from privatization.
- inactive, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3If they decided to contract it out to private companies, the tax-funded FD would probably work better. Anything run by the government is more inefficient than the private sector. It's sad but true.
- Richandler, on 12/12/2007, -0/+3If a private fire fighter stars a fire he will be arrested. If the company does it they will be fined and can be sued. If the government does this they get off just fine. Why do think Blackwater got off? They were government contracted.
- ukfoole, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Yes, malcam, it does mean the gov't isn't pouring in enough for support. But this IS NOT ON THE BUSH (aka Federal) LEVEL, you twit.
Your Fire protection is governed at your city/county level. Bush isn't there going "Wow, Limpwrist County, Iowa only has a 2 member volunteer fire department. We need to do something about that." - MikeFallopian, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3You do realize that privatized industry is the polar opposite of fascism, in which industry is controlled by the state?
- DucoNihilum, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3Considering profit motive is the only thing that makes a busniess run great...... I wouldn't consider it '***** evil'.
- DucoNihilum, on 12/11/2007, -0/+3And I'm sure there are cases like that with ANYTHING competition related if you add in one or two insane people- this wouldn't be wide spread or even noticeable, though.
And sure it is. IF you're going to start fires, providing the service of "Putting fires out" why not break watches, providing the service of "watch repair" or "watch replacement" ? -
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