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U.S. Veto to Support Israeli Crimes

sabbah.biz — Once again, United States support state terrorism and allow Israel to continue its crimes. A little while ago, U.S. vetoed a U.N. draft Security Council resolution condemning Israel's shelling of the Gaza town of Beit Hanoun.

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  • WackyT, on 11/07/2007, -58/+58Has the UN drafted any resolutions against Palestine for their rocket attacks of Israel?
    • Daiken, on 10/12/2007, -27/+47Actually yes. The UN has condemned the rocket attacks too, but no one knows about it since the US vetoes everything.
    • jblade, on 10/12/2007, -10/+33"Actually yes. The UN has condemned the rocket attacks too, but no one knows about it since the US vetoes everything."

      "condemned" is the key word here. Actually if look through the articles of the Security Council, no they have no enacted anything, they have just used words.
    • blizzwatch, on 10/12/2007, -18/+9eh nevermind, digg this down.
    • internetworld7, on 10/12/2007, -40/+31War crimes? Israel said it was an accident. The real war crimes are the daily targeting of Israeli citizens by both Hezbollah and Hamas. Where's the U.N. resolution for that? But I guess it's okay to shell the Israeli citizens and murder them where ever they are found right?

      This garbage has been dugg down for being lame and inaccurate.
    • sinner0423, on 10/12/2007, -43/+24take a look at the submitter..
      ---
      U.S. Veto to Support Israeli Crimes
      submitted by Palestine 12 hours 30 minutes ago (via sabbah.biz)

      yeah, next week, we'll see :

      U.S. Veto to Support Palestinian Crimes
      submitted by IsraelFTW 8 hours 24 minutes ago (via habbas.biz)

      Give me a ***** break. Take this arugment somewhere else. You people are arguing over a piece of ***** land, all in the name of religion. You both make me sick, and get what you deserve.

      If it were up to me, I'd say to hell with the both of you, and let Israel + Palestine just destroy one another. Get it over with, mass genocide, then whatever is left, we can try to work peace with. Until then, you people will fight until my grandkids are in a nursing home.

      No, I'm not some hate monger, I just realize that there will never, ever, be peace between these 2 factions of people.
      • EarlR, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Thats what I thought about Northern Ireland in the 80's
    • internetworld7, on 10/12/2007, -45/+14palestine, as a muslim you have been brainwashed and deceived by a false religion. Islam is a counterfeit religion. Muhammed (peace and blessings are not upon him) was a man given to war and destruction. Islam was spread thru the sword and not thru peace. Islam violently opposes anything that is unislamic. Violence and destruction is the true way of islam. It is written in scripture that God will bless them that bless Israel and curse them who curse Israel. According to Psalm 105:6-11, God has eternally given the land to the Jewish people. Repent and turn from the error and curse of islam (Acts 3:19). There is hope for you and the rest of muslim infidels world wide thru Jesus Christ. Acts 2:38 is your only way of escape from eternal hell fire. Unless you repent the frightful description of Revelation 20:11-15 will be your eternal destiny, but not only you, all who read this and are offended and all muslims who die in the error of islam.
    • BeefBaron, on 10/12/2007, -23/+36@internetworld7
      Compared to Israel who had their revenge by CLUSTER BOMBING Palestinian civilians.
      Wow, your argument is flawless, using biblical texts as defense! -_-
    • sparks2, on 10/12/2007, -11/+22I personally don't like the way the title was set up simply because it tries to bring front a point (that I may or may not disagree with...)

      The whole website is very one sided and a lot of people will not want to read the news because of this "bias" so I decided to link to what I consider a less "bias" source (once again, i'm not saying I necessarly agree nor disagree with the message the site is trying to protray but I disagree with the way it is protrayed)

      BBC Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6139968.stm
      CNN Link:http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/11/un.israel/index.html
      Fox Link: Wait... you really expected me to put one after what I said?
    • aristotle1990, on 10/12/2007, -15/+24Let me address a few things:

      Israel does not, unlike Palestinian terrorists, target civilians. They are defending themselves against Palestinian militants who fire rockets into crowded Israeli cities. I agree that they might be doing it a bit disproportionally, but really, it's extremely difficult to root out terrorists and maintain respect for human life, which Israel does. This rocket attack on civilians, in case you haven't read unbiased sources, was an accident. Extremely regrettable, yes, but it's amazing that there haven't been more of them. Trust me, Israel does not wantonly murder civilians, or do it at all. They're very careful with these things.

      Palestinian suicide bombings are not a legitimate response to the admittedly prolonged occupation of the West Bank. You don't blow yourself up like a coward in the middle of an Israeli supermarket, killing and maiming other civilians, because you're trying to "free your people." It's really astonishing that you people have sympathy for terrorists. The only reason Israel has to hold on to these territories is because if they were to let them go, they'd immediately be under siege by suicide bombings and rocket attacks.

      Israel is a democracy. It values human life. Palestinian militants and terrorists play the terror card and somehow gain Western sympathy, even though they're more concerned with completely destroying Israel. Even before Israel occupied the West Bank, even before Israel existed, you had terror attacks on Israeli citizens, such as the 1929 massacre of 67 Jews in Hebron.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

      If the Palestinians were to stop firing rockets at Israel right this instance, and Israel began to realize that they truly wanted peace, you'd have the withdrawal from the West Bank and peace in the Middle East. If Israel were to completely demilitarize, you'd have an invasion by every other Arab country (as has happened so many times in the past) and another Holocaust.
    • SmokedL, on 10/27/2007, -18/+19Isreal is not targeting civilians? Give me a break. Time and time again using rockets and tanks against ordinary neighborhoods with the transparent excuse that they suspected them of harboring terrorists.

      A bit disproportionately? How about 119 dead Palestinian children in 2006 compared to 2 dead Israeli children?
      http://www.rememberthesechildren.org/remember2006.html

      And that's before I start in on the very basis of your argument, that Israel is defending itself from attacks. Israel has invaded and proceeded to impose a terribly restrictive and repressive occupation on the Palestinian people in total contempt of international law. An illegal occupation that would have tens and tens of UN resolutions against it if the US did not veto them all. An occupation that is time and time again condemned by the major human rights organizations. A brutal and violent military occupation that just keeps on killing Palestinians all the time.

      Amazingly, in spite of all this, when desperate Palestinians strike back, they are portrayed as the aggressors in most of western media. The bias is sickening.

      Get a clue people.
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q
    • DEEMTEE, on 10/12/2007, -12/+6@beef.
      It turns out Hezbollah used cluster bombs as well.. so your argument is moot.
    • DEEMTEE, on 10/12/2007, -9/+6@Sparks... No one ever accused the BBC nor CNN as being pro Israel.. Throw in Reuters and the NYTimes and you can have a good ole Israel bashing love fest.
      I hardly consider them unbiased...
    • DEEMTEE, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8CNN.com text regarding the US VETO.

      Maybe this will shed light on the why the VETO occurred...

      ********

      Qatar proposed the motion, which focused on Wednesday's shelling in Beit Hanoun. (Watch mourners carry bodies of victims through the streets -- 1:49)

      The blocked resolution also condemned Palestinians who fire missiles from Gaza into Israel.

      The United States cast the only vote against. Four council members abstained and 10 voted for the resolution.

      Before the vote, Bolton said the United States joined the other countries in "deeply regretting" the injuries and loss of life in Wednesday's shelling, but said Israel has promised a full investigation.

      Bolton said the resolution's text was "unbalanced."

      "We are disturbed at the language of the resolution that is in many places biased against Israel and politically motivated," Bolton said.

      Bolton said the text was wrong in equating what he called Israel's legal defense operations in Gaza with Palestinian acts of terrorism against civilians in Israel.

      "We are disturbed that there is not a single reference to terrorism in the proposed resolution," he said.
    • DEEMTEE, on 10/12/2007, -7/+7I also want to add this..

      I do feel humbly sorry at ANY innocent life that is harmed on *EITHER* side. It's a shame when Israel accidentally kills kids and innocents...

      Can any of you anti-Israel folks say the same and mean it?
    • millixaw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@internetworld7:

      So the old testament says that God gave Israel to the Jews. A book written by the Jews said that God gave them the land, and you use this as evidence. Yeah that makes sense. No bias there.
    • designer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4I don't understand why the Jews just won't kill themselves for the sake of peace.
    • Artemiszero, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2 "Israel does not use terrorisim"... lawl. Palestine does not recieve US support or munitions. Israel is "sponsored" by the US in what appears to be a war on Islam. The Palestinians do not have the same means to overtly fight back, so they resort to the only form of retaliation they have in the face of military dominance: suicide attacks. Give them M16s and they will use them. Give them US missles, and they will fire them. But don't say the Palestinian tactics have anything to do with their ethics or morality. They are fighting a one-sided battle.

      The real question is: why is the US supporting Israel? Israel is a Jewish state with strong ties to the west in the middle of the Islamic world. Why else to you think we are supporting the Israelis? To act as an implement of control on the Muslim world. Christians have more in common with Jews than they do with Muslims.

    • gardnert1, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3i would say the reason the US vetoed it is that our government and media are controled by those who are more than partial to the Zionist movement, but the Anti-Defamation League (also Zionist) would call me a racist, so instead I'll say it was vetoed because the US just happens to like seeing innocent women and children murdered. ;)
  • slugicide, on 10/12/2007, -10/+36From the Reuters article, "The measure, backed by Arab, Islamic and nonaligned nations and formally proposed by Qatar, would have called on the Palestinian Authority to "take immediate and sustained action to bring an end to violence, including the firing of rockets on Israeli territory."
    • evilbob333, on 11/07/2007, -7/+18Since when does a government need a resolution to tell it to not allow its citizens to wage war on another country? Seriously, they have people firing rockets from Palestinian "controlled" areas. Does the Palestinian Authority not recognized that if they don't do something, Israel will?
    • jodokast, on 10/12/2007, -9/+8Wow that's a great idea, they should keep firing rockets at israeli civilians, that'll surely bring and end to violence.

      Doesn't anyone know you can't put out a fire with fire.
    • brownb2, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3No you can't, but you can gut the house.

      "Doesn't anyone know you can't put out a fire with fire."
    • lcynicl, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"Doesn't anyone know you can't put out a fire with fire."

      Gee, tell that to the forest service as they build their firebreaks. Duh!
  • WackyT, on 11/07/2007, -35/+35So, the resolution would've ASKED Palestine to please stop their offensive rocket attacks on Israel, while CONDEMNING Israel for defending themselves against the Palestinian rocket attacks. That sounds fair.
  • diggthiscrap, on 10/27/2007, -61/+92Its very simple:
    1) Invade Arab homeland, use the excuse that God promised you this land.

    2) Occupy the land and kill all Arabs that move. However, get USA to supply you with weapons.

    3) Kill everything.

    4) When attacked in retaliation, hold the wound and run around the schoolyard telling everyone how you were attacked by "savages". Rinse and repeat until world fails to recognize your "defense" as terrorism and yes GENOCIDE.

    Thank you, Zionists :)
  • ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -17/+40Worse, Lebanon was invaded as a defense against Gaza. But Lebanon wasn't even in the ***** war! Add a dash of salt and, ta-da, Hizbollah.

    The problem is, occupying powers never see it in terms of history. They see it in terms of, "There was an uprising, we put it down using any means at our disposal, they should just get over it."

    Ubuntu.
    • WackyT, on 10/12/2007, -25/+13Gotta love the biased oversimplification of a very volatile situation. You ought to stick to writing children books, ZenMojo.
    • johndi, on 10/12/2007, -8/+34Israel and Lebanon have been at war since 1948 with Lebanon refusing to sign a peace treaty. So Israel did not invade, they resumed hostilities. Lebanon was allowing Arafat to use their country as a staging base for the PLO. That was in direct violation of the 1949 Armistice Accords (cease fire agreement). This was after Jordan, which by the way is 55% Palestinian, kicked Arafat out for causing too much trouble.

      Take a look at the whole picture there is plenty of blame to go around.
      The U.S. has it on record that they will veto any resolution that does not condemn both sides equally. The countries submitting these resolutions use that to their advantage to look good without having to actually do anything.


      A big part of this mess is due to how France changed Lebanon's borders to their own advantage without concern for culture or influence. It's also why Syria is always meddling in Lebanon. France took a historically Syrian area and gave it to Lebanon. Syria still wants that area back, and many of the people still want to rejoin Syria. The French and British really screwed over the Middle East by paying no attention and just carving up random boundaries that may have been best for Europe, but are ***** for the locals.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Lebanon#League_of_Nations
    • sullys, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4@scottylist
      So it's okay to do that stuff since it happened 100-150 years ago?
      And they weren't a nation-state? But if they were a full fledged country it would've been wrong?

    • ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11"Israel and Lebanon have been at war since 1948 with Lebanon refusing to sign a peace treaty. So Israel did not invade, they resumed hostilities."

      Israel wasn't in Lebanon. Then they were. That would be an invasion. If North Korea entered South Korea, it wouldn't be an invasion because they've technically been at war for 50 years?

      Anyway, Israel took over Southern Lebanon after fighting a force of Palestinian soldiers stationed there. Then they left soldiers there indefinitely. Hizbollah was created to fight the occupation by Israel.

      Likewise, the United States is occupying Iraq after defeating Saddam Hussein. Iraqi insurgents are fighting the United States because they were invaded.
    • DEEMTEE, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Actually Lebanon was invaded because Hezbollah went into Israel and captured 2 soldiers while killing others... Get your facts straight.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3"...So Israel did not invade, they resumed hostilities."

      newsflash: North Korea starts shelling Seoul. "We're not starting a war, we are resuming hostilities, since no peace treaty was ever signed."
    • johndi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Deemtee, Zenmojo and myself were referring to how Hizbollah got it's start. Our facts are straight, but we are talking about 1982, not 2006. That should have been obvious because Arafat died in 2004. Try to read about something before you make an attempt to correct people.

      "Worse, Lebanon was invaded as a defense against Gaza. But Lebanon wasn't even in the ***** war! Add a dash of salt and, ta-da, Hizbollah."

    • CJWright, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Worse, Lebanon was invaded as a defense against Gaza. But Lebanon wasn't even in the ***** war! "

      You can't just make up stuff about current events and expect people not to notice the lies!!
      Some recent factual articles on the recent Lebanon war:
      By a scholar on the recent war http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/thornton072506.html
      More on the recent war http://www.danielgordis.org/Site/Site_ViewDispatches.asp?id=7
      On the recent truce http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell081506.php3
  • khalifa, on 10/12/2007, -22/+8Now this proves terrorist is brother to another terrorist, just like USA to Israel...
  • dattaway, on 10/12/2007, -10/+15Why does the USA get involved in countries like this? No one has been able to give me an answer I could understand.
    • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -17/+20Maybe because it's the only middle-eastern nation that supports America..
    • macmcrae, on 11/07/2007, -9/+22The US needs a foothold in the middle east from witch to bitchslap Arab states into following orders from Washington. It is only about oil and world power. Nothing else.
    • stonebear, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20Did you forget Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Turkey, mrASSMAN?
    • scottylist, on 10/12/2007, -7/+21"Why does the USA get involved in countries like this? No one has been able to give me an answer I could understand."

      One word: AIPAC

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIPAC
    • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -12/+8"Did you forget Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Turkey, mrASSMAN?"

      They support America's money.. not the country itself.
    • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -7/+6Wikipedia: "Middle East defines a cultural area, so it does not have precise borders. The most common and highly arbitrary definition includes: Bahrain, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen, and Palestinian Territories. "

      Turkey is considered more of a European state, and is going to join the EU soon.
    • KriLL3.2™, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4mrASSMAN: I very much doubt they can join the EU anytime soon, their infrastructure, culture, political system and laws are all incompatible with the rest of the EU, or do you consider a nation that the death penalty as a civilized nation? And yes that's a poke in the ribs of the US.
  • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -28/+19"U.S. Veto to Support Israeli Crimes"

    Who the ***** is spreading this ***** propaganda? Is it "Palestine", the guy who submitted this?

    Yes, the US vetoed it, but this article made no mention of the reasoning. It is NOT in order to "support Israeli crimes". Israel has apologized anyway, it's an accident like the hundreds that occur in Iraq everyday.
    • namelessuno, on 10/12/2007, -17/+10the resolution was simply one involving a formal statement...thats all.

      Israel owns America...I thought everyone had this figured out by now.

      Once again Americans are the slow ones.
    • fohat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18As far as I can tell, they didn't apologize, but rather called it a "technical failure". http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6131860.stm
      I don't see how this is propaganda.
    • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -16/+12To be honest I have a hard time talking about Israel with an unbiased perspective.. I was born Jewish and I guess I just feel like these kind of reports are attacking me personally. I consider myself an Atheist now, but I'll always be Jewish even though I don't believe in God or religion..
    • fohat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I understand what you mean, and in reality I doubt Isreal would really care if this resolution was passed; I just think it looks kinda bad that we keep vetoing these things. If it was my friend that messed up and killed people and didn't really accept any responsibility for it, I think I'd be one of the first to tell them they screwed up.
      Just sayin...
    • mrASSMAN, on 10/12/2007, -9/+9Ahh, you know you're on Digg when you make a comment admitting to a personal bias -- and it gets buried. Seriously, WTF. Obviously no one actually read my comment, they just Dugg me down when they saw my name.
    • ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9You don't have to be a Zionist just because you're Jewish. You don't have to support Affirmative Action just because you're black. (Don't think too hard about it, I'm just saying.) Anyway, Ariel Sharon and Yitzhak Rabin are dead. All they've got left are the Israeli George W. Bush's determining international policy.
    • dracostimpy, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Assman, you have been undoubtedly been raised from birth to equate being Jewish with supporting Israel. Aside from the occasional racist in here, you can see clearly from the comments that the grievance most people have is with the governments of the US and Israel, not the Jews. Israel is your motherland according to your beliefs, and you have every right to buy a home there, perhaps next door to an Arab neighbor since it's his motherland too. You do not, however, have the right to steal that property as Israel is doing with its ever-expanding borders and as the US is doing with Iraq's natural resources.

      Religion is often hijacked by leaders as a tool to divide people and create conflict, wherein they may profit and seize power from the ensuing chaos. Perhaps the very reason you have chosen to consider atheism is because your conscience is telling you that your religion has been tarnished by scoundrels who would have you believe that to be a faithful Jew, you must without question support the government of Israel. Be a good Jew by following the sacred teachings of the Torah, but please point out for me where the verse appears that says you must support a regime that routinely murders innocent people.

      If it isn't in there, then it isn't God's will, is it? The spirit of the Torah or Bible or Koran is pretty much the same: "love thy neighbor" (aka "do unto others..."). A rule like that is understood instinctively to be true by even the most devout atheist as well, because we all know right from wrong without having to attend sunday school to learn it. God (or perhaps Darwin) gave us all that wisdom the moment we were conceived.

      Our unwavering allegiance to God for giving us this innate wisdom is stronger than any man could ever aspire to merit from us, but many an evil man has recognized the power attainable with such loyalty. This is why church and state must NEVER be allowed to blend, but that is precisely what has happened in the US, Israel, and several Arab nations. And that is precisely why we shall all reap the whirlwind unless the people of each nation demand that their leaders stop melding God and country. Love God and country, but always defy country when it defies God.
  • jimmat, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16We couldn't do much more to help recruit terrorists.
    • scottylist, on 10/12/2007, -9/+22Yeah we can, invade a country under false pretenses.
  • fohat, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3Vetoed by John Bolton huh? That guy's brother makes the crappiest music in the world; let's veto it instead eh?
    By the way the anagram for Bolton is actually Notlob.
    • fohat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2no monty python fans on right now i reckon...
    • Y0tsuya, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If by a "fan" you mean memorizing every episode of the Flying Circus, then no.
  • namelessuno, on 10/12/2007, -18/+11Atention American soldiers:

    If you were confused as to why you are in Iraq then be confused no longer.

    American soldiers are fighting for Israel. Your congress, senate, and president are all owned by Israeli PACS(political action committees). Israels main PAC is called AIPAC. AIPAC sends huge numbers of dollars to the congrescritters in order to forward the interests of Israel.

    It doesn't really matter if this is a problem for you because most educated persons laugh at the US military anyhow. US soldiers serve munitions makers, bankers, and Israeli interests. Iff you thought you could kill people to make them free and thankful then I laugh at you too.
  • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3I think the real issue here is whether the Palestinians were living in Palestine or whether they were just in the way of the Israeli nation.

  • imryl, on 10/12/2007, -22/+18Israel left Gaza months ago and get rockets in return every day, did the Hammas (which controls the Palestinian government) apologized for the rockets?
    This is a very good example of neo-anti-Semitism; countries like Russia that hates the Jews for hundreds of years just wait for an opportunity.
    Peace…
    • brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -13/+27I am so ***** sick of this antisemitism *****. As soon as someone doesn't agree with Israel killing tens of thousands of Palestinians, they are called antisemites. What about Noam Chomsky? Oh yeah, thats right - He's a self-hater.

      Here's an alternative view. Chomsky loves his heritage and is pissed as hell that the Israeli government is making all Jews look like fascist thugs when they are not.

      Non-Jews complaining about this don't hate Jews or Israel. They hate the fact that Israel thinks they can get away with killing and brutalizing a whole nation.
    • Mu99ins, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7In full agreement with Imryl -

      The Israelis left Gaza by pressure of the U.S. and
      other nations. What did that get them?
      Continued attacks.
      Gaza could be a money maker for the Palestinians,
      as a Mediterranean resort.
      But the welfare of the Palestinian people has little value
      to the sponsors of Hamas. Hamas is dedicated
      to the destruction of Israel whether or not Israel cedes
      back all occupied territory or not. Hamas intentionally
      attacks civilians, and takes shelter among their people,
      using them as shields. And it makes good propaganda
      when collateral damage happens in Israel's retaliations.
      Of course Israel retaliates. What state wouldn't
      retaliate against rocket attacks?
      The U.N. does not help the situation.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3At what ratio of Palestinian civilian deaths:Israeli civilian deaths could we begin to express concern over the treatment of Palestinians?

      Since Palestinians do not control their own borders, have no military, etc., they are essentially citizens of Israel, despite their lack of rights. They should be treated as people, in so much as the Israelis expect to be treated as people.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Gaza could be a money maker for the Palestinians,
      as a Mediterranean resort. "

      This is laughable. Israel knocked out their power station and allow barely enough food to come in to feed the Palestinians. By keeping up the pressure on the Palestinians, they are sowing discontent and desperation. Gaza as a tourist destination? Not in this decade...
  • scottylist, on 10/27/2007, -13/+26The US kisses Israel's ass thanks to AIPAC, is that news? Nope, it's just politics as usual.
  • hongy_r, on 10/27/2007, -8/+9and yet, if china vetoes any action against north korea, they are the terrorists. madness.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Actually, we have given China plenty of flak over their support of North Korea. We certainly haven't been giving China billions of dollars in military aid.
    • qwertydvorak, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1we are giving china billions in military aid. by buying up all of the cheap crap they have to sell, we have fully funded china's military expansion. an expansion that grows at a double digit percentage increase yearly.
  • rockets, on 10/12/2007, -14/+5Muslim lover alert!
    • namelessuno, on 10/12/2007, -15/+10anyone who disagrees with israel ought to be branded a muslim lover and then shot. hell... kill his whole family cause israel should always be praised unconditionally.
    • jodokast, on 10/12/2007, -7/+4Go back to pre-school.
  • Gtitian, on 10/27/2007, -8/+14It's a super touchy subject. One doesn't want to sound like a ***** nazi. And many of you do.

    I think if you try to empathize on this one a little bit, instead of rationalizing, you'll find that the situation is very, very sad on both fronts, for all parties.
    • brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -9/+11You would be right except for 1 little detail. The Israelis have the latest war technology and basically unlimited quantities and they are fighting kids with rocks and home made weapons. Check out the numbers of dead on both sides and then give me that "they're both bad *****".

      Also, only 1 of the parties is occupying the other.
    • somebitches, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9actually @brickbat, Hezbollah are pretty well funded and have some modern technology of their own. However, instead of buying anti-aircraft missiles to protect Lebanon, they chose to buy ball-bearing filled anti-personnel rockets and fire them in to Israel.

      Both sides are full of dirty ***** and innocent civilians.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3the article is about gaza, not hizbollah
  • Gerbil, on 11/07/2007, -11/+11Buried as *****. RIP.
  • PauperIsMyName, on 10/12/2007, -13/+8If you want to get technical it all comes down to Muslims have always harbored hate for Christians and jews. It is returned of course but thats how (holy) wars are fought. The long standing conflict as many know dates back to Biblical times and can be seen up to today. It not just the western Christians but native practitioners of the same faith. Look at the Lebanese Civil War (1975–1990)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

    Libya and Palestinian helped in the same conflict along with Marxist But if you actually
    talk to any Christians or Jews native to the middle east they can tell you many stories of abuse and discrimination.
    • skyzp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3why is this fact being dug down? the truth hurts maybe?
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Fact check: Most of Christians involved in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are Palestinian Christians. Likewise, much or most of the Christians in Israel are Arabs (Palestinians).
  • darkm00n, on 11/07/2007, -7/+3.., and then the US people and the president asks , "what have we done and are doing, for them to plan attacks like 9/11" ? or why do the Muslims hate us? ... come on are you that dumb and blind? or just choose to ignore? then you oppose the killing of US troops on Iraq soil? What if some other nation invaded the US, will you given the solders who invade you flowers and invite them for dinner? come on. If Saddam needs to be hanged for his war crimes, how many have GW Bush Killed? .... and yet I know this would not make any sense to most, who just choose to be one sided. The way I see it the real terrorists are people who invade nations and support killings, be it governments like the US and UK or people Usma. You can't just blame one party. Both these parties are terrorists, The US/Israel governments and the so call people who wanna go on "Jihaad". Everyone should be blamed equally for these killings that we see today.
    • mos6507, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5"What if some other nation invaded the US, will you given the solders who invade you flowers and invite them for dinner? "

      I certainly wouldn't react by bombing mosques and funerals.

  • Gtitian, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9Osama and Bush do have a few things in common, the most important of which is their vast wealth. The history of the world will tell you one thing over and over again. Rich people will always convince the poor people around them to go and fight the poor people around other rich people. Ultimately all the rich people profit, and the poor people lose.
  • tiredguy77, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5i'm just glad my country is not next to Israel they are untouchable. Even US cant do nothing.
  • aceg1357, on 10/12/2007, -14/+8It is really very very simply.

    If the Palestinians stop launching rockets into Israel and TRYING to kill Innocent civilians, Israel would have no reason to try to kill the terrorists trying to kill their civilians. And all ACCIDENTAL loss of life caused by Israel would also stop.

    See how simple that is.
    Let us review.
    Stop launching rockets into Israel and TRYING to kill inncocent civilians.
    • ajaypopat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16It's actually a lot simpler than that.

      Stop being an occupying power and the rockets will stop.

      Do you want me to review that?
    • jodokast, on 10/12/2007, -9/+8@ajaypopat,

      Actually its not that simple. Even IF Israel reverted back to the U.N partition the arabs still wouldnt recognize Israel. This conflict, after all, started because the Arabs did not accept the partition which effectively gave Jews and Arabs 50/50 of the land and put Jerusalem under international control. The surrounding Arabic countries responded to this resolution by invading the land set out for israel (including Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, and Egypt.)

      So, lets recap:

      U.N partition is proposed.
      U.N partition is accepted.
      Israel accepts the resolution.
      Arab countries invade.

      Make your own conclusions.
  • aceg1357, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3So it is all good that they TRY to kill innocent civilians.

    Yes I think you should review that and take a serious look at your moral compass.

    • aceg1357, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Wow I say killing people is wrong and I get Dugg down. Man antisemitism is rampant on Digg. It is all good to kill a jew I guess.
    • skyzp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4antisemitism isn't rampant on digg, but blind stupidity is. most of these people base their political opinions from reading moveon.org bumper stickers.
    • Moonpig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Oh, poor me, Israel can do no wrong, everyone's an anti-semite if they don't agree with me.
  • madcow333, on 10/12/2007, -10/+4Whomever doesn't support the US veto is a FOOL!

    Israeli towns were being attacked, all provoked by Hamas, this is the Palestinian problem.
    Israel is not responsible
  • mushimonster, on 10/12/2007, -8/+9It is horrible to see either side die. This situation is all messed up. It is too late to give back land because some of these Isrealis have no other homes. It would be like America giving back land to the Indians. Where would the white man return to? Europe? Who would let them in? Anyway unlike America there were always Jews in Palastine.

    Isreal must exist and it is trying to make peace with its neighbors. It has recently made huge concessions and this worked against them. I am glad the US supports them. Plus they are the only democratic government in the area.
  • Crowforge, on 11/07/2007, -5/+8Can you say biased?
    No digg.
  • amirsoliman, on 10/12/2007, -11/+9The apologists for Israeli crimes are quite amazing. They rant and rave and rant and rave about rocket attacks by an occupied and suffocated people--but where is the ranting and raving about the slaughter of some 60 Palestinians over the last 10 or so days. What happened in Gaza where 18 civilians were killed was just the latest in a series of vicious assaults. You have to forgo a certain bit of morality, basic human decency, to look at the death of women and children and talk about a bunch of pathetic rocket attacks that basically damaged a few fields at most launched by Palestinians driven into total despair. So long as Israel remains the brutal, sadistic occupier that it is, it will never know "security" because those under your jackboot will always rebel. But this isn't even a question of taking a side in the Israel/Palestine conflict, just having the decency to say that the slaughter of innocent of human beings is just wrong. And not to cover it with asinine, puerile, self-righteous and ass-covering talk about it being "accidental." Isn't it striking how often these "accidental" killing take place?
    • aceg1357, on 10/12/2007, -9/+11"Isn't it striking how often these "accidental" killing take place?"

      Yes it is interesting. Using human shields is yet another basic rule of engagement the Palestinians do not follow. It is immoral to shoot and hide amongst women and children so the other side doesn't fire back.

      Again it is very simple. Stop using human shields and your civilian casualties will be almost non existent.


    • KriLL3.2™, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7You tell the truth and get dugg down, I hate this. "aceg1357" there is no proof what so ever that anyone involved in rocket attacks was at that location, Israel doesn't "defend" themselves, they attack. Human shields? pfff. Israel kill random Palestinians all the time without giving any kind of reason, you claim all of them stood in front of a terrorist? And who is the terrorists here? A well funded government with modern weapons or an oppressed people with WW2 rockets and stones? Yes lunching rockets is wrong, especially old once since they have no guidance to speak of, thus what you hit is quite random. Israel's targets aren't random, they target the civilian population all the time.

      Nations that where occupied by the Germans in WW2 had militia groups and other groups of armed combatants fighting back, nowadays they're called heroes, not terrorists. How are the Palestinians any different?
    • skyzp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3you're talking about people ranting and raving? dearie me, did you read your own post? rant on, mate!
  • matan, on 10/27/2007, -10/+10Very nice digg, the term "Israeli crimes" is right there in the title. That's what happens when the community gets to write the "news". Journalistic integrity is nowhere to be seen.

    Anyway, as an Israeli I'd like to say that not everything is black and white. Yes, we screwed up and bombed some innocent Palestinians. But do you ever consider what prompted the attack in the first place? Is it because we're blood-thirsty jews who want to kill arabs in the name of religion?

    No, simple fact is that they are bombing us with rockets. Hence, we're currently at war with them. Israel has a right to defend itself. Can you imagine a scenario where your city/country is attacked by an enemy and you do nothing to retaliate? Well, apparently that's what the U.N is expecting from us.

    So yeah, come and attack us, we'll just do nothing because innocent people die when you fight back. When you're at war. No matter that civilians on our side die too. It's ok for jews to die. This is the same old ancient racism only it's got a new face and seems cleaner.
  • amirsoliman, on 10/27/2007, -8/+10"Human shields"? You wanna talk about human shields? How about hundreds of thousands of "settlers," including numerous women and children, in the Occupied Territories? So, I guess, by your logic, if a bunch of women and children "settlers" get killed, it's OK because they were "human shields"--I mean, you go into another people's land, you get what you get. I assume that's what you think, right?

    Here's what's striking; the lack of a simple statement that says that killing Palestinian women and children is wrong, "accidental" or not; a simple statement that says the life of an Israeli is worth absolutely not one slight bit more than the life of a Palestinian (and, needless to say, vice versa).
    • aceg1357, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6First, you don't understand what a human shield is. Please consult any source you see fit to find out the meaning of "human shield"

      Second, you make too many assumptions instead of actually reading the post.

      Third, Of course life is life and equal. As you said yourself "it is needless to say." and you just refuted your very own statement. Funny that you assume people, or I, would believe otherwise when I said nothing of the sort. I could also assume that you think a Palestinian life is more valuable than an Israeli life by your logic because you have not said otherwise.

      Fourth, the point is many, not all, Palestinians willingly try to kill innocent Israeli civilians as often as possible and if they had the means to kill every Israeli, they would do it without hesitation. Israel has the means to kill every Palestinian but doesn't because of basic ethical and moral standards that many Palestinians lack.


  • mos6507, on 10/12/2007, -9/+7The Palestinians won't settle on a permanent border with Israel, so Israel sets its own borders as it sees fit. Technically speaking, the palestinian territories are owned by Israel (by virtue of the last major war) so anything they get is a gift by Israel, like Gaza. And look what they do with it, use it as a staging ground for warfare. Israel has every reason to declare formal war on them. As bad as the Palestinians think they have it, they should be grateful Israel doesn't just drive them out. Israel is obviously doing what it does because it thinks it is the least costly approach and to avoid any further allusions to the holocaust. But it only contains the problem.
  • drschloss, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3When Great Britain proclaimed that land for the Jewish in 1948 they should have done something and helped them settle the territory, but nooooooo, they just threw them there with no weapons. If it hadn't been for the ZOA and other prominent Jewish community leaders in the US those blood thirsty savages that call themselves Palestinians would have ripped apart the Jewish people sent to Israel. It's time to take that land back.
    • KriLL3.2™, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9What gave the jews any right to that land in the first place? And Palestinians are hardly savages.
    • Mu99ins, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3The Palestinians are not a sovereign nation, and at
      no time in history was there a Palestinian nation.
      Many of them were dislocated into refugee camps,
      and there's been neglect of their plight for generations,
      but the fact remains they were never a nation.

      The Palestinians have no real friends in the Middle
      East. Those nations, like Iran, who sponsor Hamas,
      help to prevent prosperity that peace would bring
      the Palestinians. The Palestinians are pawns in
      a cruel game to bring on the destruction of Israel.
      And those people who publicly sympathize with
      Hamas have blood on their hands.

    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Wow, the parent is so incoherent I'm not sure whether he means what he is saying or is trying to parody the Israelis. Everyone involved are people. The current state of Israel was not empty before 1948. Palestine was not an independent state because before falling under the sway of the British, they were part of the Ottoman State. Neither side in this conflict has persistently pursued Gandhian non-violence. Did I say anything wrong there?
  • sailorj, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10You know, it's easy to be conned into believing what you hear from the "Arab" perspective. Take a look at http://www.factsandlogic.org/ for some historical truths that are undeniable.

    There is no guilt trip here folks, people need to understand that many in the Arab world don't share "Western Values" and in fact are willing to kill innocent people because of the rewards in heaven out-weigh their life on earth.

    FACT: Jews and Arabs live together in Pre-1947 Israel, and it was NOT a country called Palestine. The land that is called "The Occupied Territory" is Occupied areas of Jordan, Syria, and Egypt. Those people who live in those areas are actually from those countries, and those countries don't want to acknowledge their own citizens, because they won't let them back in.

    FACT: Americans aren't rushing to give land back to the American Indians or Mexicans, or pay restitution to the ancestors of slaves in America.

    Read your history and understand the reality of the situation. How many Suicide Bombers result in UN Sanctions?

    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This was enlightening. I was surprised to find out that Israel, of all places on the Earth, had no native people in the years leading up to 1947, apparently this land was essentially uninhabited and open for the taking, like the American West (well, except the American West did have native peoples, unlike pre-1947 Israel).

      The real fault in this conflict now appears to lie with all the nations of the Middle East (except Israel, of course) refusing to take these Palestinians, who were actually not Palestinians but rather Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians, and so on.
    • EarlR, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Because "western values" have prevented tens of thousands of Iraqi deaths since 2003?
      Western values = who gives a ***** - they are all towel heads.
  • tvnl, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8I come from a country that is under the same kind of threats that Israel sees it to be under. I have nothing against or for Israel or Palestine, but the way Israel has been conducting itself in the name of security (which I agree is a major problem for a country surrounded by so many enemies), is "savage" to say the least. First there was the relentless bombing of Lebanon - (Lebanon being equally at fault for allowing terrorists to set up home and attack Israel) - but after a few days, it was sheer bullying just because not a single country in the world lifted a finger. Did someone notice that damage was done mainly to civilians? But then these are muslims, savages, let them die because they are out to destroy the WESTERN WAY OF LIFE.

    Now this stupid act blamed on "technical failure". Any other country, any other place in the world, it would have been called negligence, all hell would have broken loose, the whole western world would have been up in arms against the perpetrators of the act. But no. This is Israel. Is it a general thought that Israel can't do anything wrong? And Even if they do, it's ok because they are under threat?

    I don't blame America here. It is doing exactly what it has been doing for 50 years and more. No reason to expect anything rational from a guy called John Bolton!! And Japan and Britain? Hmmm one of them is a country with a "special" relationship - wonder what that means to those who get bombed. And Japan - can't quite figure out their motivation to abstain.

    This is driving the Muslim world to believe that the western world is against them, that when a few innocent muslim die, it doesn't matter because there are over a billion of them infesting this planet. Savages after all they are. No one blame Israel and the US - they have the license to kill - from God.

    In conclusion, The US just had to let the symbolism of condemnation go through. Instead of calling the UN resolution "politically motivated" which every resolution anyway is, this was your chance to really look like a superpower. but you blew it. Booooooo.
    • tvnl, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3The topic of this post however is inaccurate. Puts things in the wrong context.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Actually, he is correct, especially to see that different sides' perspective truly color their feelings about the conflict. Even if civilian casualties were equal, Muslims may tend to sympathize with Palestinians every time they see footage of another artillery attack with dead Palestinians, much the same as Americans tend to sympathize with Israeli civilians when they see dead Israelis from rocket attacks.

      No recognize that many more Palestinian civilians are being killed, and you can see why there is a fertile soil to stoke passions among Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere. You can digg down my sentiment, but that will not squelch the reality of it.
  • bjd773, on 11/07/2007, -8/+6Israel is a racist colonial settler state that must be dismantled. We must impose sanctions on Israel. We must boycott Israel.
  • tjlsmith, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Look - Israel was born in terrorism, exists through murder and thrives on extortion. The World's Best People have created the World's Worst Country.

    After digging this ***** hole for themselves, they have not hesitated to drag the whole world in general, and America in particular, right in after them. And the USA, who fancies themselves the most masculine of nations yet is the battered wife in this gay marriage, is Israel's little bitch right down to the ground.

    And they OWN the world prostitution trade. Funny how Borat neglected to mention that, but then his whole movie is a well-crafted lie designed to make Israel's enemies look like expendable savages. He has served his savage tribe well.

    Israel must be abandoned immediately.

    If you don't like what I'm saying - please, where's the lie?
    • DEEMTEE, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2@tjl

      Did you really just quote Borat in your anti Israel argument? That is the single most idiotic statement I have EVER read here in digg...

      Mazel Tov.
  • OMightyColumbia, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2How could you consider Israel a terrorist state when prior to every offensive they have days, if not weeks, of informing the civilians to get the hell out of dodge? Every time I read an article like this I understand that literacy does not correlate to education.
  • namelessuno, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Israel steals billions from the US taxpayer via AIPAC. No other country gets more aid.

    How is this not economic terror?

    Look at the enemies we have as a result of Israel!
    • DEEMTEE, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Like who Al Qaeda?

      Well lets see, they are pissed because we were in Saudi Arabia during Gulf I .. Nothing to do with Israel. Next.. Hmm Iran? That had something to do with the Shah being ousted and we took him in. North Korea? Venezuela? I hardly see our enemies having much to do with Israel. They just add Israel to get more sympathy from the worlds anti-semites.

      I remember when Bin Laden came out with a mesage about the Palestinian cause to drum up more Islamic sympathies and Arafat brushed it aside saying... Dont use us to justify your cause...you were never there for us..
    • skyzp, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2AIPAC! AIPAC! AIPAC!!!! auntie em! auntie em! there's a twister!!!!! the sky is falling! the sky is falling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Certainly AIPAC is kept going for many reasons. I'm sure that they angle for continues military aid, but their role is also to show Israeli's side of the conflict. That is not evil or wrong, any more than it is wrong for the Palestinians to try and show their view point.

      America cannot abandon Israel just because of "the enemies we have as a result of Israel!" In fact, for whatever reason, we still had a fair amount of cachet in the Middle East. We have largely shot ourselves in the foot by invading Iraq - and especially by making a mess of Iraq.

      In the past, we had worked to support both sides to bring about a peaceful compromise, where the two peoples could coexist. While increasingly difficult, this is the only solution that doesn't involve mass population shifts and bloodshed. Personally, I wish they would follow a model like South Africa, but I know that is more or less delusional.

      Anyway, AIPAC is not some totem showing Israeli's corruption of our politics. That is simply misguided. America corrupted its own politics!
  • tonto69, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Yes, let's not forget Israel's role into dragging us into Iraq. Israel is no friend of the U.S. The pro-Israel neo-cons must be purged from Washington and no pac [read:AIPAC] should be allowed to lobby Congress on behalf of a foreign nation. Congress should be looking after the best interests of the U.S.A., not a foreign nation like Israel.

    Neocons like Paul Wolfowitz and Scooter Libby who helped drag the U.S. into war with Iraq through manipulation, coercion and falsifying facts are traitors and should be tried for treason.

    Remember the Niger letter that was used in the State of the Union Address which turned out to be a forgery? Why haven't we heard who was behind this forgery? Why hasn't the FBI released this information? What country had the motive to get us into this war?
    Israel
    • DEEMTEE, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2Besides your blind hatred for Israel.. and your ridiculous conspiracy theories, what are your facts supporting this?

      I am no fan of Scooter nor Wolfie or any of the other numbskulls in the republican party...but I do know this.. Bush had a hardon for attacking Sadaam and it nothing nothing to do with Israel... (see Bush I)
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"Remember the Niger letter that was used in the State of the Union Address which turned out to be a forgery? Why haven't we heard who was behind this forgery? Why hasn't the FBI released this information? What country had the motive to get us into this war?
      Israel"

      Considering that the forgery was debunked by a simple google search showing that the signatories were not in office at the time, I think the forger was a complete idiot, not deserving of any intelligence service, Israeli, American, or otherwise.
    • tonto69, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"Considering that the forgery was debunked by a simple google search showing that the signatories were not in office at the time, I think the forger was a complete idiot, not deserving of any intelligence service, Israeli, American, or otherwise."

      It seems to me like it was good enough to fool our intelligence service since it was used as 'evidence' in pushing for war in the State of the Union Address.
  • skyzp, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3was it the french senator jean pierre kerry who said "stay in school, get yourself an education and you won't end up a supporter of palestinian terrorism"?

    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2I think Senator Kerry is actually an American war veteran and Senator in the US Senate. I wonder at what level of service to the country someone could qualify as an American in your eyes?I
  • veersite, on 10/27/2007, -4/+1Just the kind of headline you'd expect on a DIGG political story.



    I'd laugh except many will believe it.
  • Highstand, on 10/27/2007, -5/+2I know I will get dugg down for this but someone has to propose an extreme option - nukes. Tell the Palestinians to stop firing rockets and sending out suicide bombers and they get to live. Otherwise virgins for everyone. Is it harsh? Yes. Will innocents die? Yes. I am tired of this pussy fight going back and forth every day. Haven't any of you figured out that if the Palestinians don't attack Israel then they won't get attacked themselves? Are these people really that stupid. Don't blame Israel for your dead kid. Blame your stupid-ass neghbor for having a rocket launcher in his back yard.
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Sure, nuke Palestine. Did you know that Palestine is right next to Israel? You sound like you don't know 1) anything about geography, 2) anything about nukes, and 3) any amount of humanity.
  • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1woops
  • mushimonster, on 10/27/2007, -3/+2By the way ... I am tired of this fight too ... but I think this group is biased towards the great state of extremism. By reading above I can see most people here hate Israel and the Jews. I can also see that most here think that ANYTHING IS OKAY IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. I guess as a terrorist ... one can hide behind as many kids as possible since CNN will make them famous. Israel is a democratic state with millions of people who hate this conflict. They would love to work with everyone for peace as long as it doesn't mean their destruction.

    Oh no ... I said too much ... should I expect a fatwa?
    • scottylist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Don't confuse anti-Israeli Occupation for anti-Judaism. Apples and oranges...
  • strcmp, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3The fact is that Israel has been under constant attack since the day of its inception and has constantly been giving up land to try to make peace. Only recently has Israel begun to retaliate, and good for them. Hezbollah is an openly terrorist government that has made it clear that it wants to wipe Israel off the map. Israel's so-called "terrorism" is the accidental killing of civilians among whom the Palestinian terrorist installations hide -- sad, but not terrorism. Real terrorism is found in the rocket attacks and suicide bombings clearly targeted at killing innocent Israelis.
    • philbloke, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Just like they accidentally killed 4 UN observers in Lebanon
      Just like they killed 106 in a UN camp in Qana in 1996 and 28 in Qana this year
      Just like they accidentally left 1,000,000 unexploded munitions in civilian areas in Lebanon.
      Just like they accidentally bombed the USS Liberty
      Just like they accidentally killed Rachel Corey
      Just like they have accidentally killed 116 children so far this year
      Just like they accidental displaced 810,000 people in 34 days in Lebanon (actually I am not sure they claimed this was an accident)

      There are many, many more examples of accidents - Israel is an accident prone nation.
    • tjlsmith, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5It's Israel's own fault they're under attack. They're on other people's land and they know it. They can't take land and claim victim-hood too, but they do.
  • photonh2o, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3You're kidding right? The Palestinians fired rockets at an Israeli town (a couple days after their last barrage had hit a schoolhouse) from the inside of a densely packed Palestinian area. Israel went in to get them, and one artillery shell went tragically awry. And you think that the UN should condemn Israel?

    You know, in most moral systems the person who sets up civilians to be human shields would get blamed when those human shields got hurt. Guess not in Israel's context though. But seriously, tell us all about your moral outrage some more.
    • philbloke, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Since September Hamas has fired 1,700 rockets - Israel 15,000 artillery shells.

      This year the Hamas rockets have killed 2 people (both Arabs) - since June Israel has killed 300 (60 children).

      I certainly am not defending Hamas and I am definitely not defending the collective punishment of a population for the acts of others.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6136980.stm
    • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I used to be a staunch supporter of Israel, until I read statistics like philbloke's. This BBC article is not alone. Any reasonable accounting of deaths finds far more Palestinians dead - especially far more civilians and children, than among the Israelis.

      The Palestinians' actions are more egregious in nature than the Israelis' actions, but then the Palestinians have no Army with which to wage a pitched battle. Even with terrorist tactics like suicide bombings, they cannot even come close to parity with the Israelis (what a terrible goal).

      In the end, I feel like siding with the civilians on both sides, but I feel more for the Palestinian civilians and children. They are in much greater danger. Honestly, the only tactic Palestinians can reasonably pursue is Gandhian non-violence, but they seem incapable of it. The Israelis eventually would not be able to run tanks over living people, they could not gun down masses of unarmed people walking through checkpoints within the West Bank. A laughable idea, I know, but what else could be done?
    • ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There's a recent video on digg of an Israeli troop firing into a peacefully protesting crowd and shooting and wounding an Israeli protester. A group of peacefully protesting students in Gaza, teenagers not throwing rocks or bottles, were hit with teargas.

      Gandhian nonviolence, like I said in another thread, only works against civilized oppressors. The right-wing dominance of Israel's military has sent it screeching into savagery. When you kill and abduct hundreds, even thousands, of Palestinians in broad sweeps and blame your enemy for making you kill their civilians with severely disproportionate violent response to an unrelated group, you are not the person that peaceful civil disobedience works against.

      And it seems Israel's swinging further to the right, which will not bode well.
  • martalli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I would suspect that whoever made or bought the forgery, were the people who used it as evidence to support the invasion. History will probably tell, and we may just have to wait.
  • Peace4All, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I think before people throw around the word "terrorist" to describe the Palestinians actions, look up "Haganah." Terrorism (as defined by the Pro-Israeli lot) as a means to strike fear, did not start with the Palestinians.

    I'd also like to add that many of the most boisterous/powerful supporters of Israel are Jews in name only. They are Zionists, but are far from practicing. Being a Zionist does not automatically mean they subscribe to the teachings of Judaism. I've known so many Jews who are staunch supporters of Israel, but haven't picked up the Torah since their Bar/Bah Mitzvah. This is why I find the idea of using scripture to justify its existence, beyond ridiculous. I don't want to listen to someone who is Jewish tell me about its right to exist by citing the Bible as justification, when they themselves don't even practice. It's enough they have Evangelicals on their side who want to see them convert or die. For many Jews, it isn't about religion, it's politics.

    One other thing: if you're naive enough to simply dismiss away any mention of PNAC/AIPAC's influence on US Foreign policy, by using the ad nauseum "tin foil" retort, then I'm not surprised they have been so good at convincing the public they aren't influential. If you don't get that it's blatantly clear, then I've got a bridge for sale.

    People like Feith, Perle, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Kristol, Frum and Libby have/had DIRECT influence over the foreign policy of the US, and all of whom have made no secret of their views on the Mideast.

    Why is it that when you state a fact, that old "anti-Semitic" red herring is thrown in? I find that the moment I see the word used, it is used in attempt to render ANY valid discussion, null and void. Learn to debate like a grown up. When you're presented with a fact, attempt to counter it with a fact, not an adjective which at this point has no affect, and merely reveals a weakness: an inabilty to effectively discuss the issue itself.
  • fatmax, on 10/27/2007, -1/+2It don't take a UN veto to know the US gov supports their war crimes.

    They sell depleted uranium munitions to Israel and it was used on the Lebanese. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2006/290706deadlydu.htm

    Depleted uranium is considered a weapon on mass destruction. Both Bushes used them in Iraq... http://www.sundayherald.com/32522 Don't call light to our war crimes and we will support you in yours. That's a fair trade.
  • CJWright, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1On the Israeli & US relationship: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf21.html and
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/strattoc.html
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