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US Citizens Are Being Tortured By The US!!!

crooksandliars.com — For daring to report illegal arms sales, Navy veteran Donald Vance was imprisoned by the American military in a security compound outside Baghdad and subjected to harsh interrogation methods. There were times, huddled on the floor in solitary confinement with that head-banging music blaring dawn to dusk and interrogators yelling like Fox News Hosts

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expat001 361 days ago, made popular 360 days ago

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Duffeh, on 10/10/2007, -3/+82FTA:
""If you do it, you will be destroyed," said William Weaver, professor of political science at the University of Texas-El Paso and senior advisor to the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition.

"Reconstruction is so rife with corruption. Sometimes people ask me, `Should I do this?' And my answer is no. If they're married, they'll lose their family. They will lose their jobs. They will lose everything," Weaver said."
- maxhrk, on 10/10/2007, -24/+3deleted... nevermind me. XD
- joot2112, on 10/10/2007, -9/+5The leader of the coalition says "don't do it"? Maybe he's a plant.
  - theOster, on 10/10/2007, -17/+3a plant? i thought guys like you were usually called a fruit
  - mojibake, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1theOster's being dugg down for that?
    get a Clue™, people.
    
    ;)
- razor150, on 10/10/2007, -3/+21And Nancy Pelosi still says Impeachment is still off the table. What part of this isn't ***** illegal?
  - gerran, on 10/10/2007, -3/+27They refuse to impeach because it's a huge political move. Leave Chimp in office until the Presidential elections. This will help ensure that the Republicans have the absolute lowest level approval at election time. It will help drive votes to Democrats. Once there is a Democrat in the oval office and democrats have full control of the house and senate, hello war crimes tribunal.
    
    Impeachment is too soft for Bush. He needs to do time and lose everything he has. His reckless leadership has put this country so far into debt that it's going to take 10 generations to get us out.
    - ericisshort, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11If you honestly think that when Bush leaves office that any legal action will be taken against him, you are extremely naive. Not saying he doesn't deserve it, but yeah, not gonna happen.
      - WilliamDavis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Exactly right. It's a tit for tat thing. You don't prosecute us, and we won't prosecute you. That way, we can all be criminals with little fear of paying for it.
- argeaux, on 10/10/2007, -4/+8Come election time, every one of us should make up some handouts showing which of our local leaders:
  a) voted for the war
  b) were not in favor of impeachment
  We need to canvas all our neighborhoods with these flyers about two weeks prior to election time. The mainstream media has turned the pavlovian populace into single-issue voters over meaningless issues such as gay marriage. It's our turn to influence the populace over an important single issue: OUSTING EVERY SINGLE POLITICIAN WHO WON'T HOLD THIS ADMINISTRATION ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE LIES AND DEATHS AND TORTURE THEY'VE PERPETRATED.
  
  Every one of them: Democrats, Republicans and in between... you allow this administration to get away with their *****, YOU LOSE YOUR JOB.
  
  I will be handing out flyers all over my state come election time. Everybody jump on this bandwagon and start taking names, and our country back!
  - thatsmyaibo, on 10/10/2007, -6/+5Why is digg full of revolutionaries that run their mouths but don't take action? Turn the flyer into a high quality JPEG and submit it as a story. If you do that, I will take part in this.
    - craftyguy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4thatsmyaibo,
      So you are saying..."Do the work for me, and then I will help out"
      A bit hypocritical are we?
- Coridan, on 10/10/2007, -9/+8Logging U.S.A. on...
  Welcome America...
  Democracy.exe...
  http:/Constitution.gov
  404 error Democracy cannot find Constitution
  Democracy.exe has encountered a fatal error and needs to close...
  Democracy.exe...
  Trojan_Bush blocked access to Democracy file...
  Trojan_Bush deleted Democracy file...
  System32restore.exe
  System Restore Corrupted...
  logging U.S.A. out...
  ****************
  Password has been changed...
  ...
  ...
  ...
  Logging PuppetGov in...
  Totalitarianism On-line...
  Welcome Bush Fuhrer...
  - awhiteflame, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6ha ha?
- ShawnHunt, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well... I liked it.
Frnnkdlxx, on 10/10/2007, -76/+11Too bad its on crooksandliars. If people weren't such biased, establishment monkies, than this would make the front page and the revolution would be nearer.

But lo, The mighty Babylon has fallen
- p0tent1al, on 10/10/2007, -7/+36???
  
  And what respectable blog or television station would you expect this to be aired on? Do you know how idiotic the logic behind what you just said is? What you are basically saying...
  
  "Oh, I like this story, too bad it isn't on a site that I like, maybe if it was on another site that I like, you know, the sites that wouldn't have this on the site at all, I would like it."
  
  Maybe you should respect them for this piece, because I don't see any of the flunkies you love reporting this.
  - Albionshores, on 10/10/2007, -2/+11I think you're doing Frnnk a mis-service. It's not that he is saying he doesn't trust the report because of the site but that other people won't.
    
    It is however as mChristiansen says an AP story carried by Forbes.
  - Frnnkdlxx, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4You're crazy. You misrepresented my statement, but regardless. I'm just glad its seeing the light of day.
    - CharliesRevenge, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2And yet you do not make an attempt to clarify your position. Sounds like someone called you up on your ***** bluff and now you're backing down.
- mchristiansen, on 10/10/2007, -2/+54Its an AP story and being carried by Forbes.
  - tomboy501, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Too bad the original Forbes link on the page wasn't submitted instead of this lame middleman crap from C&L.
    - kinseyincanada, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5try the read more button. http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/24/ap4052736.html
    - gcauthon, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1At this point, launching a battle against blogs is like pissing into the wind. Give it up! By the way, if you don't like going through the "middleman" and prefer to go directly to the source, then WTF are you doing on digg? Just add all of the major news media sources to your bookmarks... problem solved!
- Frnnkdlxx, on 10/10/2007, -21/+1Wow. for the first time, i'm glad I was dugg down. You embeciles proved me wrong! YAAAY!
  - Magillicutti, on 10/10/2007, -6/+3From what I can tell, you're the "stupid or silly person" considering you don't know how to read an article and you also don't know how to spell imbecile, imbecile.
    - tehpwnrate, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5From what I can tell, you're the "stupid or silly person" considering you didn't comprehend his first comment.
    - Magillicutti, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1His first comment was that CrooksandLiars isn't credible, but the article itself is from Forbes. So WTF are you talking about exactly?
- ProgressBar, on 10/10/2007, -3/+15How about Forbes? They trustworthy enough for ya?... Ass.
  
  http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/24/ap4052736.html
- cygnus2112, on 10/10/2007, -10/+1Go ahead and hold the revolution. I own bigger guns.
  - brutalentropy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Ooooooh you've got a big epeen!
- smackywentz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8I agree, why the ***** couldn't they have posted the original Forbes link?
- razor150, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Read the Forbes article you moron.
  - smackywentz, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2You *****. He's saying they should have posted the link to it, so when all the fascists get on here, they wouldn't be able to bury it for blogspam or bitch about it.
ezstan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+184Use the full story source please.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/24/ap4052736.html
- theOster, on 10/10/2007, -17/+5but the full story is too long
  - anjinash, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12I take it you're the kind of guy who reads Cliff Notes on a regular basis.
  - tehpwnrate, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Once again, a clever guy is smacked by the reality that you can't transport sarcasm through your CAT5.
    - SquigglyP, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I dunno, there's pretty good odds it was a serious comment around these parts.
- Nateon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Thanks, that was a really good read.
OBKenobi, on 10/10/2007, -48/+14If you join the military, you give up your rights as a human being. They can do to you whatever they can get away with.

It used to be worse!
- mchristiansen, on 10/10/2007, -1/+38The person mentioned was a contractor, not military personnel.
- ProgressBar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19RTA idiot. All civilians. All with their rights violated or lives ruined for trying to point out the corruption that runs rampant in the military-industrial complex.
- UtilityPole, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8Last time I checked, the U.S. military has never been implicated in a war-profiteering scandal.
  
  There's absolutely no reason why anyone should "lose their rights as a human being" for uncovering ILLEGAL activity in the armed forces. If anyone deserves to lose those rights its the corrupt military/government officials.
- Terr01, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Aside: Don't forget the Jose Padilla case. What, five years old now?
skidme, on 10/10/2007, -64/+13"There were times, huddled on the floor in solitary confinement with that head-banging music blaring dawn to dusk and interrogators yelling like Fox News Hosts"

Nice sentence, *****.
- RanIntoTheDevil, on 10/10/2007, -3/+12I thought it was kind of clever, seeing as in the real article his interrogators are "yelling the same questions over and over". Definitely a Fox News tactic. However it was fairly crass given the subject.
- ProgressBar, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6I'm sure you would have better commentary after being interrogated and held in solitary confinement. Dick indeed.
manicallday, on 10/10/2007, -5/+89This is what happens when multinational corporations become too influential over international policy. Although this is something that many international scholars have already written about, I don't think that it has been demonstrated like this before.
- rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -7/+10Clever way of making this seem like a problem of the UN or something, rather than the outcome of conservative policies by the Republican administration.
  - smackywentz, on 10/10/2007, -9/+3Oh, ***** me. You idiots don't give up.
    - trimpton, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2I don't think he was blaming the UN but saying this is what happens when you privatize everything.
noahhoward, on 10/10/2007, -63/+3"Also held was colleague Nathan Ertel, who helped Vance gather evidence documenting the sales, according to a federal lawsuit both have filed in Chicago, alleging they were illegally imprisoned"

Gather evidence? So basically you were spying, you were gathering information to use for who knows what and you got caught and imprisoned for it. Sorry, no matter what your intentions and what you allege is happening behind the scenes, what did you expect. The military doesn't take very well to spies, your morals reasoning doesn't matter.
- TruthWillWin, on 10/10/2007, -5/+41my god...... what has FOX news done to you my sweet clueless slave??
- mibocote, on 10/10/2007, -2/+31RTFA
  
  ""It was a Wal-Mart for guns," he says. "It was all illegal and everyone knew it."
  
  So Vance says he blew the whistle, supplying photos and documents and other intelligence to an FBI agent in his hometown of Chicago because he didn't know whom to trust in Iraq."
  - WilliamDavis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Looks like he didn't know who to trust in the US, either. When I'm going through my list of people to trust, the FBI isn't in the top 1,000.
- wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15"your morals reasoning doesn't matter"
  
  I suspect your one of those "absolute morals, all the time, without context" types. Very simple way to look at the world.
  - dboylon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+19He is acuising them of selling arms to anyone who would buy them...including the enemy. One would think that the military would be on his side...and the government. But apparantly not. The question is why not? The only reasonalbe answer is the one Robert Higgs talks about...
    
    "As a general rule for understanding public policies, I insist that there are no persistent "failed" policies. Policies that do not achieve their desired outcomes for the actual powers-that-be are quickly changed. If you want to know why the U.S. policies have been what they have been for the past sixty years, you need only comply with that invaluable rule of inquiry in politics: follow the money.
    
    When you do so, I believe you will find U.S. policies in the Middle East to have been wildly successful, so successful that the gains they have produced for the movers and shakers in the petrochemical, financial, and weapons industries (which is approximately to say, for those who have the greatest influence in determining U.S. foreign policies) must surely be counted in the hundreds of billions of dollars.
    
    So U.S. soldiers get killed, so Palestinians get insulted, robbed, and confined to a set of squalid concentration areas, so the "peace process" never gets far from square one, etc., etc. – none of this makes the policies failures; these things are all surface froth, costs not borne by the policy makers themselves but by the cannon-fodder masses, the bovine taxpayers at large, and foreigners who count for nothing."
- LordSalisbury, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Somebody get this man a red arm band. This is a REAL party member.
- thebenallen, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Kill yourself.
- BlacklabelSAR, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Do you routinely miss the point?
- SquigglyP, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Yes, if the military is doing something illegal and you go tell people they are doing something illegal... you deserve to be imprisoned? Gathering evidence doesn't mean "spying" either, it means getting hard proof that the stuff is happening. What is more hilarious is that you are probably all for all the warrantless wire tapping and security cameras anywhere. You probably have no problem with the military spying on you, but anyone trying to take a peek into the dirty laundry the military's got going and it's a ***** capitol crime. Here's a little nugget of information for you that, i dunno, you must have slept through in highschool: You, as a citizen of this country, are the MOST IMPORTANT entity in the country. The country is about you and others like you. The military is in YOUR service. The government is in YOUR service and is supposed to be working to improve your way of life and to ensure your rights as a citizen are upheld. What the military and government are not supposed to do is imprison and torture people who are trying to make it known that those entities are corrupt. The Government and Military... the majority of the people in those branches of our leadership are supposed to be the 'Good Guys'. What kind of hero would punish someone trying to do the right thing?
BigFoot48, on 10/10/2007, -70/+5Buried as that's not torture. Get your headlines right.
- hfactor, on 10/10/2007, -1/+36Some people will only change their opinion after it´s been done to themselves... but then it´s too late, my friend.
  - Tweekster, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1loud music and yelling?
    sounds like my old dorm
- Albionshores, on 10/10/2007, -1/+38An American is going though this at the hands of other Americans for speaking out about illegal arms dealings and you want to quibble over whether it is torture or not. Yes damn right it's torture. It's also an encroachment of nearly every one of his human rights.
  - Terr01, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2And it's not limited to recently or to people in Iraq. See Also: Jose Padilla.
- RanIntoTheDevil, on 10/10/2007, -2/+25Sounds like it sure as hell would feel like torture. Maybe it should be done to you so you realize the physical and psychological anguish one would be in.
  - Albionshores, on 10/10/2007, -2/+17The thing is that it is inexcusable to use it on anyone.
- tehpwnrate, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3It's not technically defined as torture, and I'm usually a headline-accuracy Nazi, but in this case, I think an exception is in order.
nastronomical, on 10/10/2007, -50/+1Another Libby spin on the truth.....
- anjinash, on 10/10/2007, -1/+19Another douchebag wingnut oblivious to reality.
- smackywentz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8...Scooter Libby?
- MasterThief117, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5I personally don't see why these rightwing neocons even try to say anything here anymore.
  It seems all they know how to say is stuff like, "Oh there is a huge moonbat spin on it"
  - Tweekster, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0actually if you would bother reading anything that is different in opinion than your own you would realize how much of an idiot you are for your comment
- BlacklabelSAR, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1I'm sure that Hitler had some supporters too....
  - Tweekster, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1did you come up with that one all by yourself?
- SquigglyP, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5How can you put a Liberal spin on a story about a military contractor contacting the FBI with alegations of illegal weapons sales by the US military, and then being imprisoned and possibly tortured for doing the right thing? If this is such a Liberal slant, what exactly was the REAL story, if you don't mind? I mean, for comparison it would be nice to be privy to the information you apparently have access to.
debah, on 10/10/2007, -3/+65This makes me sick to my stomach. What has America come to?
- wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -3/+19Remember that when the Conservatives try and spin this as a Democrat problem. Or when people say "the congress isnt donig anything" -- remember that it is the GOP protecting these guys by voting to continue it, voting against the Democrats who are trying to Do The Right Thing.
  
  Remeber that when you see (R) and (D) on the ballot.
  - tidu, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9Democrats are just as bad, it's just that this time its the Republicans who made the huge power grab. Any party would do this. But in the next election, the lesser of the two evils is the Democrats..
    - rarson, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9Republicans made the power grab, while Democrats sat there and did nothing. Why? Because both parties are now the same stinking *****: globalist ***** bent on eroding the sovereignty of the US. wageslaven, "remember that" when you blindly decide to vote the anti-party (Democrat) candidate into office. Voting Democrat isn't going to change things. Stupid ***** Americans have to start using their heads and realize that they aren't voting for a goddamned party, they are voting for a candidate. No two Republicans are exactly the same, nor are any two Democrats. You have to actually research the candidates to figure out who is the best choice, instead of making stupid, blanket assumptions about an entire party.
  - TheLoneHoot, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7The democrats won't do *****... remember the "sweeping" elections of '06? Yeah, right. What was the first thing Pelosi said? "Impeachment is off the table." What a ***** joke! I've lost any faith I had in the democrats to make change. My voter registration card says "NPA" (no party affiliation) because I won't blindly align with ANY party. So yeah, I'll remember the republicans who helped the Bush regime come to power, and I'll remember the spineless democrats who did nothing to stop them. I guess it's like "tidu" (above) said, the democrats are the lesser of two evils. How depressing.
- shupy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6When there is an election, no matter how small, every citizen needs to get off their duff, know what is at stake and get to the polls. Only about half the country bothers.
  Low turnout at the polls usually helps republicans. One thing they have been good at is mobilizing their people to get to the polls. They use fear, fear of the Godless (democrats, gays, commies) fill in the blank.
  - rarson, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Sure, but about a million times more important than the actual process of voting is the research that is required to be able to select the best possible candidate. Sadly, this is something most Americans cannot be bothered to do.
- annenk38, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4It hasn't come to anything. War profiteering is as old as war itself.
  - Lowrads, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0Maybe, but plundering used to be democratic. It was the rich who commissioned all of the triremes, and the soldiers who got the portable wealth.
    
    Ah, for simpler days..
- DevLsAdvoc8, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Red v. Blue, Dems v. Reps, donkeys v. elephants--it's all the same. I don't think that I believe, value, or vote like any other person in the world--let alone like 50% of the damn nation. Get rid of 2 party systems and we'll open the doors to newer, fresher candidates and platforms. All a 2 party system does is divide us. Multiple parties would at least provide a voter with more options away from an "inevitable candidate" because the other guy isn't as popular.
CarpeFishem, on 10/10/2007, -34/+5Blogspam?

Yes, sir, it is.
- ProgressBar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+12Who cares where it came from you arse. It's a story that more American sheep need to wake up and read, so they can realize what's going on... The original source was AP in a Forbes article... that credible enough?
  
  http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/24/ap4052736.html
  - CarpeFishem, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2Oh, really. And I guess you fought to keep LGF articles on the front page, hm?
    
    Or could it be that you selectively apply the rules based on your political prejudices?
- Terr01, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Yes. Which is why I won't be digging it, despite having dugg many C&L items over time.
  
  Of course, that doesn't mean the basic story is not newsworthy.
KhanneaSuntzu, on 10/10/2007, -4/+73It isn't Russia, Saudi Arabia or China, but today again I feel I HATE what the US has become.
- shupy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8As they say, you get the government you deserve. This government was elected. So you vote, sometimes that's not enough. You can contribute, you can talk to friends, you can volunteer on election to give rides to the polls.
  - rarson, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10Yeah, but our government was being taken away from us long before we were born. There is an entire system established and put into place to prevent Americans from really determining where their country heads, and it's been out of our hands for a long time. Look at the candidates, and how many of them on both sides are CFR members. It's the illusion of choice; for the past several decades, we've been given the same candidates with different names attached so that we can think we're getting rid of the bad guys and replacing them with something new, but it's not, it's the same old crap.
    
    That's why it's refreshing to see candidates like Paul, Kucinich, and Gravel running for office and actually getting a chance to speak up on national TV.
    - ericisshort, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1CFR = ...Campaign Finance Reform?
      - rarson, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1HUH? What? Are you serious? Here, find out for yourself: www.cfr.org
        
        *****, I can't help but spoil the surprise: Council on Foreign Relations.
- krnldmp, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3What these times should be showing you is that even in those countries the Baptists try to tell you are Evil!, it ain't the people, it's the government, and it Can happen here.
habkb, on 10/10/2007, -24/+8Could you possible add a couple of more exclamation marks. The credibility isn't completely ruined yet.
carmaa, on 10/10/2007, -6/+36Exactly how is this worse than torturing other human beings?
- BonerMachine, on 10/10/2007, -0/+33It eliminates the mirage that this is only happening to "the bad guys," with the uncomfortable implication that they deserve it.
- rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13It isn't "worse", but it has even severe implications; intimidating and punishing whistle-blowers ensures the perpetuation and increase of corruption, which costs lives and treasury - in addition to the weakening of our social fabric.
  
  Not everything has to be divided in to "good" or "bad", and addressing an instance of evil does not require dismissing all others.
  
  This is the fallacy that caused the ADL to resist calling the slaughter of Armenians a genocide - as if that would somehow make the Holocaust less heinous. It's not a binary world.
  - carmaa, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Personally I find it very easy to define torture as "bad". Call me old-fashioned, but sometimes black/white thinking can make a point clearer and more visible; defining torture as "bad" when done to Americans, and "sad but necessary/look another way" when done to other nationalities blurs the notion of torture as "bad", and aids your government to spin the truth. You are being fooled.
    
    And I do agree that one such "bad" instance does not require dismissal of other "bad" instances, but i find it amusing that US citizens are surprised that their government, that clearly finds torture to be a legitimate method to obtain/restrain information, not will hesitate to use the same means when a whistle blower turns out to be American. You would of course not seen this outcry if the person was Iraqi.
    
    The world is not binary, but it would surely help if America took a firm stance against torture, not against torture as long as it is performed at American citizens.
- outsid3rNo17, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1Because now its the americans who feel unsafe. And that is a terrible thing since its generally accepted that the entire world exists to serve them.
tsbardella, on 10/10/2007, -11/+3I for one welcome our Torturous Overlords. If we had trains where I live I am sure I would be grateful that they were running on time. Other than that I would just stay the hell out of Baghdad for a while
manicallday, on 10/10/2007, -9/+23There's something weirdly erotic about this passage:

"You just don't have happy endings," said Weaver. "She was a wonderful example of a federal employee. They just completely creamed her. In the end, no one followed up, no one cared."
- shupy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11Sex and violence can be weirdly connected.
  It is sickening that an administration, any administration can throw lifelong public servants to the dogs for political purposes. And they spin it right and get away with it. I am amazed how many Bush supporters are ready and willing to sneer at the Plame/Wilson situation. They love to post that she was a "desk jockey" and that he was sent to Iraq by his wife. Two people who had spent their entire careers trying to deal with the threat of the middle east.
  And some incompetent, rich boy from a powerful family can throw that all away.
aptiva, on 10/10/2007, -6/+39And why exactly is it worse that they torture us citizens than others?
- wageslaven, on 10/10/2007, -5/+11Only Americans are people with Rights you know.
- buggu, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Exactly, I don't see anyone (but human rights agencies and organizations) making a fuss about Guantanamo Bay and the blatant torture and violation of basic human rights going on there, but when the attack is brought home it really hurts. It figures, the American people are only going to wake up from their delusional self when they themselves become victims of the Bush administration.
  - rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Your comments have the (hopefully unintentional) effect of trivializing this serious issue - not only mistreatment of individuals, but drastic ratcheting up of intimidation of whistleblowers. This has social and pragmatic effects beyond the already corrosive impact of torture in general.
    
    Why is it necessary to respond to an evil with "well, why don't you care about this other evil over there?")
    
    Do you not see how this tactic is used by those who seek to minimize all evil? Israelis use this to justify mistreatment of Palestinians, the US uses this to justify mistreatment of terror suspects - and you use it, if not to justify at least to minimize mistreatment of whistleblowers because they happen to be Americans?
    - robflm256, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0But what can anyone do about it?? The Bush administration has created a universal enemy that will never go away: TERRORISM. If you disagree with the administration, you are a terrorist. They will use this word as long as they are in power. They have stopped ruling through reason and just decided to rule using fear. How many ridiculous laws has Bush passed because of "terrorism". The Patriot Act for just one example. Our freedom is being systematically eliminated because of our security against "terrorism". If we say "no" then we are considered "terrorists". It's *****.
- rondeth, on 10/10/2007, -1/+17Christ, who the hell said or implied this was any worse? I believe the reason it mentions "US Citizens" specifically is an attempt to wake up those who somehow disconnect when it's NOT U.S. citizens. I don't see any indication in the description or the full story that surmises that it would be completely okay were this a foreign national.
  - Jugalator, on 10/10/2007, -2/+1"Christ, who the hell said or implied this was any worse?"
    
    The three exclamation marks in the subject? :-p
    
    "I don't see any indication in the description or the full story that surmises that it would be completely okay were this a foreign national."
    
    No, I can agree with that though.
- Kinkistyle, on 10/10/2007, -1/+15Because if a country is willing to torture its OWN citizens they have problems, then its not hard to imagine what they do to people they have problems with who AREN'T citizens.
salty10is, on 10/10/2007, -34/+5Dugg down for ridiculous attempt at bashing Fox News to try to get more diggs.
KhanneaSuntzu, on 10/10/2007, -10/+34It isn't China, Russia or Saudi Arabia, but I have to come to HATE what the US stands for.

You guys are traitors. You have elected a bunch of corporate fascists in office, twice. I call that TREASON to the rest of the civilized world.
- Metis2be, on 10/10/2007, -0/+8We're sorry. Most of the people on digg know better, but it's embarrassing just how many people in this country are uninformed. My own mother still supports this mans actions, and she should know better, my sister's in the army.
  
  I don't know why he hasn't been called accountable for his actions yet, but I'm waiting on the edge of my chair for when he is.
  - Nok1, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I agree with you completely, but unfortunately, I doubt that he'll be held accountable for his ill-planned actions for the next few decades, if ever.
    
    EDIT: PS: Good thing that he has two daughters who are morons who will never run for any type of office.
    - jacquesm, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0well, if being a moron would be an objection to holding office we wouldn't be in the situation we're in now would we ?
  - IADTatami, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Maybe change will happen faster if you get off of your chair.
- onelikeaztek, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3I think you ought to look at the numbers again. We didn't elect Bush, he stole the election twice, then made it impossible to pursue by ordering the destruction of the actual voting cards in Iowa, amongst many many other things. You might want to become informed on the subject before showing the rest of the world just how ignorant you really are.
  - Spymodhf, on 10/10/2007, -3/+0lol um maybe you might wanna become informed on the subject. Saying ***** without any evidence whatsoever is not very credible.
KhanneaSuntzu, on 10/10/2007, -26/+11It isn't China, Russia or Saudi Arabia, but I have to come to HATE what the US stands for.

You guys are traitors. You have elected a bunch of corporate fascists in office, twice. I call that TREASON to the rest of the civilized world.
- TruthWillWin, on 10/10/2007, -6/+312000 + 2004 elections were clearly staged ánd stolen.
  
  massive incriminating evidence, also massively ignored by the controlled corporate media.
  
  The U.S. media is by far the worst in history, especially concerning power and influence
  - Habemus, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3>"The U.S. media is by far the worst in history, especially concerning power and influence"
    
    Worse even than Goebbels' Germany (Der Sturmer, eg)? Or Stalin's Soviet Union (Pravda, eg)?
    
    You need to switch to decaf. You are hyperventilating again.
TruthWillWin, on 10/10/2007, -4/+41Prescott Bush would be so ***** proud^^
KhanneaSuntzu, on 10/10/2007, -23/+6It isn't China, Russia or Saudi Arabia, but I have to come to HATE what the US stands for.

You guys are traitors. You have elected a bunch of corporate fascists in office, twice. I call that TREASON to the rest of the civilized world.

I wonder why all posts made after this one are dug into oblivion. Last time I checked that is censorship. I wonder who is paid to do that.
KhanneaSuntzu, on 10/10/2007, -24/+5It isn't China, Russia or Saudi Arabia, but I have to come to HATE what the US stands for.

You guys are traitors. You have elected a bunch of corporate fascists in office, twice. I call that TREASON to the rest of the civilized world.

I wonder why all posts made after this one are dug into oblivion. Last time I checked that is censorship. I wonder who is paid to do that. Ever heard of Blowback?
- realyst, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7-------
  Last time I checked that is censorship.
  -------
  
  Ummm, no. You checked wrong. Your post still exists and can be viewed at any time or even used in studies of human ignorance. It's just not popular...nor particularly well informed.
  
  Censorship would have been being banned for posting such a message and either having the message blocked or erased.
  
  But even there, such is censorship on what amounts to the virtual equivalent of private property. In the same way that I reserve the right to kick you out of my apt if you start insulting me. You can insult me on the street, but in my apt, you leave.
  
  How old are you, 9?
- rondeth, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Maybe it's because you're spamming the thread, asshat.
KhanneaSuntzu, on 10/10/2007, -25/+4It isn't China, Russia or Saudi Arabia, but I have to come to HATE what the US stands for.

You guys are traitors. You have elected a bunch of corporate fascists in office, twice. I call that TREASON to the rest of the civilized world.

I wonder why all posts made after this one are dug into oblivion. Last time I checked that is censorship. I wonder who is paid to do that. Ever heard of Blowback?
- realyst, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Since you feel inclined to make the same bloody post twice(Internets 101, you click -once- on links, twice to launch Windows programs.) I'll indulge you twice with the same answer as above.
  
  -------
  Last time I checked that is censorship.
  -------
  
  Ummm, no. You checked wrong. Your post still exists and can be viewed at any time or even used in studies of human ignorance. It's just not popular...nor particularly well informed.
  
  Censorship would have been being banned for posting such a message and either having the message blocked or erased.
  
  But even there, such is censorship on what amounts to the virtual equivalent of private property. In the same way that I reserve the right to kick you out of my apt if you start insulting me. You can insult me on the street, but in my apt, you leave.
  
  How old are you, 9?
- kurtwinter, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Stop spamming digg. Make your point, and move on.
- FredoBerfil, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Your post was worth digging up once. But not four ***** times.
rhabd0mancer, on 10/10/2007, -8/+16"head-banging music blaring dawn"

Ah, that's not so bad.

Forcing them to watch the 700 Club would be torture.
TruthWillWin, on 10/10/2007, -4/+16like always, this is the tip of the iceberg.

The evil elites control everything.... and for so long.... R.I.P. Aaron Russo...
Sogui, on 10/10/2007, -19/+2You know, a rational person would ask for the other side of the story.

But then again, this is Digg. Fox News has nothing on the unabashed lies going on here.

Not to assume the story is false, but I'm always suspicious when a story is deliberately one-sided.
- sticksnstones, on 10/10/2007, -1/+16If you feel that way, find the other side of the story and post it.
  Easy to criticize.
- Sogui, on 10/10/2007, -8/+1I just don't like how it "paraphrases" the decisions behind court-cases for us, and the only evidence they have is a bunch of random testimonials and a professor out in the El-Paso UT Campus. (Which is about on par with a community college professor giving us commentary on the issue).
  - MaxUdargo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Maybe you missed all the "so-and-so refused to comment" phrases sprinkled throughout the article. They tried to talk to the FBI, the military, the Justice Department, etc., but nobody would comment on the cases.
- rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3By "rational person", would you consider the editors of Forbes - which the dugg submission links to?
- kinseyincanada, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4in the article they went to the government an they denied to comment, so its one sided because they other side refused to talk.
KhanneaSuntzu, on 10/10/2007, -30/+1It isn't China, Russia or Saudi Arabia, but I have to come to HATE what the US stands for.

You guys are traitors. You have elected a bunch of corporate fascists in office, twice. I call that TREASON to the rest of the civilized world.

I wonder why all posts made after this one are dug into oblivion. Last time I checked that is censorship. I wonder who is paid to do that. Ever heard of Blowback?

And BAM away from the front page. What a filthy country, bah bah bah. Putin bitches, the lot of you. Sheep you are and you led to the slaughter. No more sympathy from me.
- Pilot85, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Fine. We don't need it. You seem fairly useless. In fact, BLOCKED.
- rondeth, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Oh, whatever shall we do without your sympathy?
- rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Reported for repeatedly spamming the thread with the same comment over and over and over. Ironically, you are most pissing off people who might be inclined to sympathize.
- commernie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Quit spamming, *****!
wonky73, on 10/10/2007, -14/+5Forced to listen to really loud music at all times of day and night.. That's not torture.. it's called living in the dorms.
insanebrain, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Lady torture is blind. .
greenbowlball, on 10/10/2007, -3/+14Ever notice how in posts like this the republican stooges still complain but not about the post itself. Get a clue this war and this president are ***** and you don't care how stupid and desperate you look when you'll stand by them.
fugazi, on 10/10/2007, -19/+1O yes because we all know you get information by asking "What was that please?". Stop Bitching.
- MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6Stop breathing.
- TheLoneHoot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Fugazi, um, you do realize they were doing this to civilian contractors who were trying to help the US government, right? I'll bet if this had happend on Clinton's watch nobody would be denying torture took place.
blaser, on 10/10/2007, -1/+27So this is the USA's democracy they want to import around the world??? Yeh that's gonna work /sarcasm
Tarnum, on 10/10/2007, -4/+22You thought your government will torture only Musilms?
- MacEnvy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+17This war has very little to do with Muslims, despite the way it's been sold to the Chrisitan Right.
SaudiMuslim, on 10/10/2007, -1/+25It's the snowball effect. Was this Osamah's goal all along? To turn a democracy into a fascist dictatorship? Were the attacks against civilians just a cover for an ulterior motive? God only knows, but one thing we do know is that all it takes now is just one more major terrorist attack (whether by Al-Qaedah or the US government, see Northwoods and 9/11) and the US will turn into a de facto fascist government not much different from Nazi Germany. Except that instead of Aryan pride, all the torture, murder and concentration camps will be done in the name of "national security". Just one more attack. I for one think there's a 95% chance it WILL happen. I don't want to see innocent civilians suffer, but the world is headed to its doom and all we can do is just sit back and watch, until our turn is up.
- richardhenry, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2I enjoy the fact that you felt the need to append a 'h' to Osama and Al-Qaeda.
  - hakuchuumu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I wouldn't want the American sensors sniffing their way to me, though I'm sure they already are since I'm just reading this page...
  - godofpumpkins, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2you might not be aware that there are other writing systems in the world, which don't have an exact one-to-one mapping with the roman alphabet :) there are various standards for approximating foreign sounds in our alphabet but these will not always be consistent
  - SaudiMuslim, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0In Arabic, there is an H. But when words that end in H are transliterated to English, the H is usually omitted because it might be difficult for English speakers. Osama, Al Qaeda, Al Jazeera, Abu Hamza, all those have H at the end in Arabic that sound like the 'h' in 'hell'.
    
    There's also no 'e' in Arabic. Arabic names transliterated to English with 'e' in them are incorrect. It's always either an 'a' (Ahmad, not Ahmed) or an 'i' (Jiddah, not Jeddah). But early transliteration mistakes stuck and are now the norm, unfortunately.
- LeeMaple, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0I thought it had already been proven pretty clearly the Osama had nothing to do with 9/11 and the tape that the Government provided that was supposed to show Osama admitting to it was a fake. That aside the US hasn't been a democracy in decades.. If the terrorists are so well organized and hate the US so much why haven't they attacked already? Seems like your infrastructure is pretty vulnerable, HLS couldn't find a shop lifter in a Wal Mart let alone a shipping crate with a nuclear device in it.
OliviaHoman, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10That’s what happens when the faciests run the country you get these brownshirt assholes who do ***** like this.
- pb4upoo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1 It is my firm belief that any American in the chain of command who allows torture should face an international human rights trial and if found guilty of torture be executed. That includes the commander in chief or any generals who have allowed this abomination to take place. No degree of threat can ever justify torture.
Albionshores, on 10/10/2007, -0/+38Is everybody just going to ignore the point that this was also about illegal arms dealings? He spoke out about weapons being put into the hands of the insurgency and the American security forces set about intimidating him to shut up.

It is not just about torture, intimidation and detention - although that is bad enough, but it is about American and British security forces allowing the insurgency to be armed. They are perpetuating thefighting to justify a military presence in the gulf and to secure more profit for corporation.

The original article:
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/24/ap4052736.html
- shupy, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Excuse, who armed Saddam? Who called the Taliban "freedom fighters". Ever hear of Iran Contra? The US has been pouring weapons into the Middle East for decades.
  - cygnus2112, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1Who armed Saddam? Russia and France mostly. Taliban weren't called "Freedom Fighters", Taliban didn't exist during the Afghanistan War against the Soviets. Please get your facts straight before you decide to pollute the internet again.
    - Albionshores, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6The CIA helped the Ba'athists to power and then sold him the technology to gas the Kurds. They then supported Saddam throughout the Iran-Iraq war. Likewise they funded and trained Afghani fighters to fight the soviets. The same fighters later developed into the Taliban.
    - TheLoneHoot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2@cybnus:
      Mujahedeen/Taliban, Continental Army/US Army, Prussia/Germany... toMAYto/toMAHto
  - Albionshores, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I entirely agree. People should have been up in arms then too. But if that were not bad enough now we are arming an insurgency to directly engage our own troops!
  - rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3You are using precisely the same logic as those you oppose. They justify evils by pointing to worse evils - and you seek to minimize them using the same tactic.
- krnldmp, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4To make it absolutely clear, this is mostly about the US military CREATING the insurgency. Hundreds of tons of high explosives were "lost" in the early part of the war, then Americans get to learn the acronym "IED".
  - TheLoneHoot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2AMEN! Sad, but Amen.
    They made sure to guard the Iraqi treasury building and the oil fields, but not the munitions depots... BRILLIANT!
Dudeee, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11It'd sad to say this has been going on way longer then bush, bush is just doing it out in the open.
- krnldmp, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The only thing that is making this out in the open for Bush is modern communications. You get rid of cell phones and the internet and this would just be more "way way longer". I'm NOT trying to tell you this isn't the worst it's ever been, however.
- rationalist, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Clever reframing intended to perpetuate Republican rule while appearing to express moral outrage. There is a huge difference between the ultra-right leaders of the current Republican Party and the current moderate leadership of the Democratic Party - and there is a world of differences between the approaches of the GOP to government - hiring unexperienced amateurs - political appointees judged not on merit but loyalty - to oversee crony corporate deals - in strongly hierarchical organizational structure that does not tolerate dissent - vs the way Democrats typically approach government - hiring professional civil servants with backgrounds directly relevant to the job and encouraging frank and open responsiveness from subordinates.
  
  Of course there are excesses, or course there is a need for civilian vigilance and responsibility. But the general trend of Democratic administrations and Congressmen and women has been in support of accountability, while the general trend of particularly the past twenty years of GOP leadership has been in support of secrecy and disdain of the public's right to know.
  
  There IS a difference - a HUGE difference. Just look at the professional qualifications of any major Clinton appointee to the Executive Branch vs the professional qualifications of the typical Bush appointee. Do the same for Carter vs Reagan.
  
  Government is not perfect, and power corrupts. But there IS a difference, and it DOES matter who you elect.
  - commernie, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Democrat good, republican baaaaaad! Democrat good, republican baaaaaad! Dudeee is 100% correct. This kind of ***** has been going on for decades, but you Americans are only finding out now...better late than never I suppose.
leonidas333, on 10/10/2007, -4/+24I think you guys need another revolution.
Your goverment and your country is a joke
- buggu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11A revolution needs an informed mass of people, and to find that in American is; sadly but very truthfully - going to be the biggest obstacle initself.
  - dboylon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6That is why public education has been wildly successful for our leaders
- MagicCake, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I think so too, it's going downhill. I think a big change is going to occur within our lifetimes. I wonder what will happen?
  - suspectzero, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0 I hope the NSA don't interrogate me for digging the idea of REVOLUTION ,but we need not only an informed mass of people.but also a well armed mass,so stock up at the- kenton nationals-maybe a 50.cal
dxgg, on 02/05/2008, -2/+32"Right now your government is doing things you thought only other governments did."
dgh1973, on 10/10/2007, -1/+11"""
And why exactly is it worse that they torture us citizens than others?
"""

Because governments are like watch dogs. We appreciate it when they turn on our enemies, but when they turn on us it's a different matter entirely.
- Albionshores, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Not how it should be but it might be what is necessary before change is made possible.
HiCaP, on 10/10/2007, -21/+3Crooks and Liars, enough said, buried as *****.
- mishabear, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8So you didn't read the article on Forbes?
  http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/24/ap4052736.html
  
  Just because it's on C&L doesn't make it BS.
- Albionshores, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7use the original source then.
  http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/24/ap4052736.html
- cygnus2112, on 10/10/2007, -4/+3If you notice, that's not a "Forbes" article. That's an AP feed that Forbes uses to publish more news on their website. And no, I don't really trust news from AP anymore, I take it with a grain of salt ever since they started using doctored pictures and questionable stringers for fabricated articles.
  - nblsavage, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5So no source is valid for you except the Bush press conferences and Fox?
  - TheLoneHoot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3AP has a pretty large presence in the media markets. Good luck finding a lot of sources that don't rely on AP feeds. UPI is barely around anymore and my not be/have been any better. I imagine the best sourcing is from independent sources, but that being said, what independent sources do YOU trust cygnus2112?
    Even your precious News Corp uses AP feeds - heavily - just like everyone else.
  - FredoBerfil, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3*Snort*. Every news outlet uses AP feeds. So make up your mind, it's not real news because it passed the smell test for Forbes, Associated Press, or Crooks and Liars?
  - ClosedCaption, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I only get my news from Bush too!
- ProgressBar, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5*cough* AP... Forbes... http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/24/ap4052736.html
  
  dick
secretivecoward, on 10/10/2007, -4/+7Good. I sleep better at night knowing American citizens are being tortured. - Dick Cheney
theelectricafro, on 10/10/2007, -4/+12Thats is what happens when you cross that moral line and legalize torture. After what happened to Pat Tillman how could you not give more creedence to this story than your own personal bias?
- pb4upoo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1 The republican party has had trouble with the truth ever since Nixon and maybe well before that. As it stands we need to make sure that no one associated with the republican party has any job in the public sector for many decades to come.
- nycmac247, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Pat Tillman - a contract killing to shut up a potentially high-profile dissenter
  - Tweekster, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0except there is zero evidence and only idiots continue to tell that lie/
mrzack, on 10/10/2007, -13/+8The NWO was behind the 9/11 attacks. After killing 3000 US citizens, torturing whistle blowers is nothing.
9/11 = INSIDE JOB. ***** the NEOCONS. Buy weapons and ammo. store up on food, whiskey, and gold.
- fatbert, on 10/10/2007, -9/+1You forgot the Jews. They're the ones who are behind this. Throw them down the well.
  - krnldmp, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Easy on the Jews. They're no dumber than Christians. Get wise to AIPAC, and the "Jewish" American government officials, particularly the ones that actually have Israeli-American dual citizenship.
  - TheLoneHoot, on 10/10/2007, -2/+0Don't be quick to digg down fatbert - it was sarcsam (with a Borat reference no less).
- cygnus2112, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Seek professional help, soon.
  - williamdyer, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Out ,of 19 hijackers, 17 were Saudis. Bin Laden denied involvement, after taking credit for other attacks.
    
    Whoever "did" 9/11, it wasn't who we were told.
    
    The liars of 9/11 should be hunted like animals.
- Darkhowling91, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1Everyone please excuse him, he made an error. What he meant to say was NWA was behing the 9/11 attacks
- DevLsAdvoc8, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Have you been reading Fromthewilderness.com? Just wondering...
mishabear, on 10/10/2007, -1/+10If I EVER come across anything like this soldier did, I will mail copies to the PRESS anywhere and everywhere I can. Get the word out. It's only when people start making a fuss and politicians risk losing THEIR jobs that the govt. will do anything about it.
- Sandurz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2The problem is the government...?
  - pb4upoo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0 We have a democratic majority in the house and Senate who would love to boil every republican in oil. But it is really hard to get at these creeps. They are well dug in and getting them out of government is not so easy. Keep in mind that the civil service has become loaded with republican creeps who are forever beholden to the evil cheese heads. So after you purge the elected officials you still need to cleanse the system of non elected types. The only way i know is to fire them all right down to the janitors in all federal and state agencies and that is usually illegal.
    - TheLoneHoot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Actually few democrats are really itching to boil every republican in oil... if they were they'd do something about Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi.
mwrl, on 10/10/2007, -9/+4This story isn't one sided at all. There is more to this then what the press is stating people.
- nblsavage, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2you types always say that but never back it up
- dboylon, on 10/10/2007, -0/+13Yes. Because our government is the greatest on Earth and our Ivy League educated elites are not greedy power hungery whores...they truly have our best interests at heart because they care so much for the American people. Heil Bush/Clinton!!!!! They would never lie to us!!!
  - DavidJay, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0Dugg down for lumping Clinton in with Bush. None of this ***** happening has anything to do with Bill or even Hillary for that matter.
- mrgreen4242, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Is there ANYTHING that could be added to this story that would justify what happened? Or are you debating that the facts are inaccurate? C'mon, lets hear it; what mitigating facts could be added to this story that makes the detention, intimidation, and torture of a US citizen, a veteran, who reported illegal arms sales to the enemy OK?
- TheLoneHoot, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0@mwrl
  Enlighten us please! Since you're obviously an expert, knowing that there's more to it all, why not explain what we're missing?
  By the way, learn the proper use of "then" and "than" you illiterate *****.
nanboya, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Notice how it's done overseas?
Babykitkat, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4NWO
revo764, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Does anyone still wonder why in the space of six years the USA went from being the most loved nation on earth to the most despised and hated. The Constitution is there for a reason, if you decide not to demand the politicians follow it, then this is what you are going to get!
- sapahi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Incredible!
  if this is happening to US citizens what the Iraqis may be facing?
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US Citizens Are Being Tortured By The US!!!

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