What is Digg?91 Comments
- sockpuppets, on 10/12/2007, -3/+29Hogwash, I don't have health insurance and I feel perfectly f
- scarebear, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27do what i did when i lived in california
leave - Leomarth, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Don't confuse dying without health insurance with dying because you are without health insurance.
- otheruser, on 10/12/2007, -13/+27And just for those who claim "omg, socialized healthcare system sux! thank god im not in canada!"
The Harvard Crimson, http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=513741
"Americans are less healthy than Canadians and have poorer and less accessible healthcare despite spending about twice as much on it per capita, according to a study published by three Harvard Medical School scientists last week. " - kingygk, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19Many people die on in Canada because they are put on waiting lists for Dr.s because of their crappy National Health care system. You libs need to wake up before we get shafted by congress. Think Walter Reed Hospital before wanting the government take care of your health care needs.
- Sell, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17I don't have health insurance and unfortunately neither does my wife or stepson. Can't afford it. We already live in a one bedroom apt (in California) and I probably pay more than many people pay for their homes in many states. With everything, cost of living, etc there is just no way. Living paycheck to paycheck is a bitch.
- Ibanezfoo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Over 40,000 people a year die in automobile wrecks per year. I'm sure alot of them had auto insurance and medical insurance. So whats your point?
- Eallan, on 10/12/2007, -15/+23Good for you, I'd prefer to chose what to do with my money.
- SultanTravi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Combination. It's hard to pin stuff like this everywhere. But in today's America, this ridiculous notion that the federal government (which was intended only to secure basic rights) should solve every little problem needs to stop. People are increasingly uneducated, lazy, and begging the government for freebies.
If there were less frivolous lawsuits, it would be cheaper. If less illegals and other people without the capacity didn't end up getting free ER care at the expense of others, it would be cheaper. If people realized that out of the few important expenditures, health care is one of the most important, they wouldn't have this problem. Don't buy new shoes and a TV when you don't have health care. - Prysorra, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11Both.
*Shudders*. - huntrm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10I know few Canadians who have moved to Seattle, and are extremely relieved to not rely on that health care system as well as being able to get away from the heavy taxation. On the other hand, I know some Canadians who are happy with the situation, they do bitch about it, but it's what they're used to and it works for them. Overall, I wouldn't want such a system due to heavy taxation, but I've always been able to provide for my family - as do many americans.
Could there be some improvements to the U.S. system? Yes. Does it have to look like something out of Canada (or Minnesota)? No. - atuuschaaw, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12Although this article comes from 2002, the numbers haven't went down! On the contrary...they have increased dramatically just due to the lack of preventative care that insurance can provide. The United Health Foundation maintains a page dedicated to America's health rankings:
http://www.unitedhealthfoundation.org/ahr2006/components/lackinsurance.html - Detritus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9@emmanuelsotelo: It must be really easy for you type that not being in that position.
I haven't had health insurance for a very long time, but the cost for me (27) is still prohibitive at over $350/mo (not HMOs or some other sham/scam like insane premiums). You're right in comparing it to a new car.
You guys with insurance from your employer should make use of it every chance you get, it is a luxury. You'll miss it if you ever go solo. - alpine75, on 10/12/2007, -2/+82388 die in Pearl Harbor and we declare war on Japan and Germany.
What about the uninsured in 1941? - controlguy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@otheruser
From the article you posted: "Lasser was cautious about concluding that Canadians’ better health was a result of their universal healthcare system, pointing out that the nature of the study allowed the researchers to compare the two healthcare systems without isolating one specific cause for the differences."
That's not a statement for or against universal health care, but the implication that one group is healthier than another because of it is not supported by the study in the article. - Meursault, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6If the article is strong enough, you don't have to prop it up with Iraq War popsicle sticks.
- Leomarth, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12They need to inflate the numbers to build sympathy.
- metacoola, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Just wondering for the sake of discussion, who do you think its to blame?
The people for not buying it
The Government
Health Insurance
or Doctors themselves. - atuuschaaw, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Tonik is an alternative being offered in eight states so far...but it's designed for younger people who have "disposable" income but no health insurance. This is a good thing...but unfortunately, there are millions of people who aren't between the ages of 19 and 34 and who don't have "disposable" income!
- honus, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8I'm growing increasingly annoyed with the Digg posters who feel absolutely compelled to inject the Iraq war into everything.
See what I did there? A medical pun. Funny.
Seriously though, I don't come here to be berated with the same two worldviews in every post. If it's about healthcare, keep it about healthcare. - washcapsfan37, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@metacola
You forgot the lawyers, for all the frivolous and litigious lawsuits that cause medical coverage to sky rocket. And the drug companies for charging tons for medicine for "research costs" and fighting to keep generic drugs off the market. And the people making fraudulent claims that drive up the costs. - xcoastie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5 * On a per capita basis, the United States has ten times as many magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) units " which use magnetism instead of x-rays " as Canada.
* The United States has three times as many computerized axial topography (CAT) scanners per person.
* The United States also has about three times as many lithotripsy units (to destroy kidney stones and gallstones with sound waves) per person.
* Per capita, the United States has about three times as many open-heart surgery units and eleven times as many cardiac catheterization units (for the treatment of heart disease).
Where would you rather be??
http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba104.html - 4thandSchlong, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7People who digg this are completely moronic. 18,000 people isn't even close to 1% of the population of the US... and there is no direct correlation between their deaths and whether or not they would have actually been better off with socialized healthcare. Get it through you thick skulls... healthcare in America is not a right it is a privilege. And trust me, there is no one in this country that goes without healthcare... I see it all the time in my line of work.
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Average life expectancy in 1941: 62.81
2004: 75.7
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html
Maybe we can go back to the good ol' days of no medicare, limited health insurance and hoping to live to see 62. - SultanTravi, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Yeah, the original poster is an *****.
They meant the 3,000 deaths in the September 11th attacks. Whoever would post something like this needs to grow up, or GTFO this country. If you don't like how American government works (we. aren't. *****. socialists.) then go someplace else. - LonesomeFighter, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5because if the people join the military they get good health care plans. if they don't want to serve the country, then they don't need gov health care plans.
- blueberries, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8BlackOlive: Say what you want about the health care system, but don't try to trivialize 9/11 by drawing incredibly stupid and offensive comparisons.
- spyd3rweb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5perhaps if medical care was more affordable in the first place insurance wouldnt be needed.
- insomuchas, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7Health Insurance is too expensive because medical costs are too expensive. Only half of people even pay their hospital bills.
Hospitals charge twice as much for everything to cover it. If you use a hospital you are paying for an uninsured person whether you
realize it or not. Perhaps I'm oversimplifying a little but I've about summed it up. - hartley, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Tonight at 10:
10's of kittens die because of wheat gluten, and the war in Iraq.
Find out how we made this obvious connection after the break. - jeffiek, on 10/12/2007, -10/+13"The estimated death toll includes about 1,400 people with high blood pressure, 400 to 600 with breast cancer and 1,500 diagnosed with HIV."
With all due sympathies to the dead, it costs _nothing_ to check your blood pressure. Cost of treatment can vary somewhat though, but is often inexpensive. Using condoms costs next to nothing. From a cost point of view that knocks 2,900 off the total of 18,314 or almost 16% of the total.
Not being able to afford insurance can be a problem. But why the need to inflate the numbers? - KnightMareInc, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6most americans with HI are working folk
- swankboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+418000 die of 40M uninsured, that's .045% of the uninsured dying each year supposedly because they weren't insured.
2.5M of 300M Americans on average die per year. That's .83% of the population.
You're more likely to die of anything just being an American than dying from being uninsured. - washcapsfan37, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@mattk: Your attitude explains a lot about non-American idealogy in general (USA, etc.). Perhaps more people not in America should have common decency and regard for their fellow human beings (I'm not saying that no non-Americans do but clearly there is a significant percentage if things like generalizing entire countries prejudicially don't happen, while things like posting ***** comments do happen).
- Ibanezfoo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Because YOU don't get to decide how MY money is spent.
- sahaskatta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4just to let everyone know, the article is dated: 05/22/2002
- washcapsfan37, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@branekancer
I believe he's referring to more of the "***** or get off the pot" mentality. I hate people who bitch about the way things are but offer no constructive ways to fix it or don't even bother to try and change things (writing letters, attending rallies, etc.) Put up or shut up, basically.
Or maybe he believes in he immortal words of Homer Simpson, "If you don't like it, go to Russia." - hartley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@jofer
So I should pay for their health insurance because they got someone knocked up (or got pregnant themselves) and didn't go to school (and there for is in a dead-end job)? I don't know of any factory workers that are making minimum wage.(Please inform me, I live in Florida. I don't know of any factories here paying minimum wage, in fact, they pay pretty well.) If you're over the age of 20 and still making minimum wage you have absolutely no ambition in your life. People with children, ethnic minorities, and/or poor, can get an educational loans/grants much easier. Learn a trade, go to college or a trade school. This is America, home of the American dream. The land where anyone with a good work ethic and/or a good idea can make it.
Even off of the topic of personal responsibility, I am totally against the idea of the government micro managing yet another aspect of my life. The government is too big as it is, last thing I need is for them to control our health care as well. - hartley, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5It's called personal responsibility people, use it.
It's not the responsibility of the government/employer to provide you with health care.
Affordable health care is offered pretty much everywhere in America. If you "can't" afford it, or flat out refuse to pay for it, its your own fault. Manage your money better and make some better life choices. The government owes you nothing.
The elderly and poor are already taken care of in this country, it's Medicare, and Medicaid. - musicmantrs, on 10/12/2007, -7/+9@matttk
See, America isn't a socialist country, if you can provide through normal means you do and if you can't through normal means there are alternatives. Why don't you go fill out your tax form for 50% of your income and schedule your doctors appointments a month in advance. - huntrm, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5You need to get some insurance. Leaving isn't always easy, as someone suggested, but clearly you need to seek out better situation. I spent over $1,500 out of pocket because I missed the window to add my newborn son (3rd kid) to my corporations policy. I had to wait until Jan 1 the next year to add him. Needless to say, I got that $$$ back in few different, creative ways!
- Enjoikr3w, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5I've noticed everybody has been leaving California. At least it seems that way for me. I live in San Antonio and my father is in the architecture/contracting business. Almost all of his customers are from California. Its just too damn expensive to live there...
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4If you think government-financed healthcare cannot work, then you should read into it more rather than live in ignorance. It can work well (VA Hospital) or not so well(medicare). Here is an example of how it works well:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_29/b3993061.htm?campaign_id=search
The Best Medical Care In The U.S.
How Veterans Affairs transformed itself -- and what it means for the rest of us
And for the past six years the VA has outranked private-sector hospitals on patient satisfaction in an annual consumer survey conducted by the National Quality Research Center at the University of Michigan. This keeps happening despite the fact that the VA spends an average of $5,000 per patient, vs. the national average of $6,300.
Personally, I pay for my own minimal insurance, and I am happy since I'm healthy. But I know govt healthcare can work. I've lived in countries with such a thing (europe) and it works. Europeans have much better healthcare on average and even in Holland, where I have lived, prenatal care is amazing. This results in healthy and some say tall population. With the US prenatal care is a luxury. All of the doom and gloomers here need to get out of mom and dad's basement and live a little. If you include health care costs, wages have stagnated for 6 years in the USA. That's quite a tax. I guess it boils down to - how much do you care about your country? - dotspace, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4To some degree I wonder if there've been any studies on the correlation of the general responsibility of people who don't have health care insurance. Someone not responsible enough to at least get some kind of health care insurance is probably more likely to be less responsible overall with their own health and health care.
- V1be, on 10/12/2007, -11/+13He's right, they aren't comparable. Technically, we'd have to compare the number daily instead of yearly dying from lack of healthcare, which would 18,000/365, or about 50 per day. The 3,000 was one day, and for remaining days we must calculate the number of people presumably saved from terrorism attacks, because this study presumes that the 50 a day would be saved from healthcare. I'll hedge my bets on this comment though and say neither is righteous.
- rstevens, on 10/12/2007, -9/+10I care about this 18,000 times more than the war in Iraq.
- muzzymate, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7Exactly. You want national health care? Take a look at Walter Reed Hospital and how we treat our heroes. If that's how we treat them, imagine how they'd treat random person X off the street.
- pawchikapawpaw, on 10/12/2007, -4/+5i don't get it. the government has consistently exhibited their ineptitude when it comes to handling social programs. the budget is in deficit right now. there are more illiterates in DC than first thought. service at the dmv didn't get any better. government hospitals like walter reed are, well, crap. the social security fund is so mismanaged that this is probably the last generation that will benefit from it.
but oh! we're supposed to give the government MORE of our money so that they can put it to good use for us! heavens! what will we do without our government! socialize health care immediately, that will surely make things better, immediately!
yeah, that makes SENSE! since the government has already mismanaged my money, i'll give them more money so that it can pay for MY insurance and make it all better! - geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I have tonik. It's pretty basic and only works out if you don't have any problems. I should know, what turned out to be a routine visit and some tests last august blew up. $600+ later there are 10 different claims with a new claim being added every so often and paperwork. blue cross doesn't talk to the hospital which is like the left hand not talking to the right hand. In other words, it's an example of a failure if you a) have it and b) try to use it. Ever since I've been healthy, thank god.
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