What is Digg?91 Comments
- Aggressor, on 10/12/2007, -3/+58Believe me... I wish it wasn't there to submit....
- osirisothedead, on 10/12/2007, -3/+51No apology is par for the course. This administration has never, ever admitted to making a mistake and I doubt they intend to start now.
- syowr, on 10/12/2007, -4/+40Yep USA land of the free no more. A country so scared that they are giving up freedoms every day for the sake of security like the kind in the story above.
- TruthElixirX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+29I think KnightMareInc was being facetious.
Did I spell that right? >.> - osirisothedead, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25@musicmantrs
So it was all Clinton's fault? Figures the radical right would think that. The policy was misused by this administration, not Clinton's. But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of an extremist agenda, shall we?
@manifestdata
Based on faulty information given to the US by the Canadians. The point is, the administration still made a mistake, Canada apologized yet the US won't. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+24Thanks for this one!
- cmost, on 10/12/2007, -4/+26Am I the only one who notices that the US government is employing the same tactics used by the Nazis? Keeping the public in a constant state of heightened fear so that they blindly (and willingly) go along with anything the government wants to do. Have we learned nothing from the past? I don't know about other US citizens, but I'm about ready to pull up stakes and get out of Dodge. While we may have a lot of so called freedoms in this country, we're slowly giving them up one by one. The Patriot Act illustrates this perfectly. Now, we're detaining people WE deem as "enemy combatants" for as long as we want and for basically any reason we see fit. We refuse to let these people challenge their detentions, or even charge them with any crime. We stash them away in a hell-hole overseas or off-shore, and torture them until they tell us what we want to hear. Then we just keep them forever. This is no way to treat a human, regardless of what they're accused of doing. Our behavior around the world is that of a bully. We don't practice what we preach and we're outraged when other countries take steps to protect themselves (Iran's nuclear enrichment and N. Korea's nuclear tests.) You can't declare three countries part of an "axis of evil", invade one of them, and then act angry and surprised when the other two begin arming themselves with nuclear technology. Duh! What did ol' Bushy and his cohorts expect? I'm fed up with the US and I hope against hope that the Republican scum are voted OUT of power come November. Maybe then, we'll have a chance to make amends for our misdeeds these past six years.
- rprouse, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22Thanks. I am glad that there is at least some knowledge of this in the United States now. It has been in the news in Canada since he was in Syria and they were trying to get him released. I was talking with a Canadian Buddhist monk yesterday who traveling to Malaysia next week and is afraid to fly through the United States because of this and other incidents like it.
One minor point on the post though, the statement that he ended up in Syria kind of misses the point, he was flown there by the US to be tortured. - osirisothedead, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20@musicmantrs
I did read the article, but thanks for the pointer. If you knew any facts behind the case, you'd know that he was not just "simply deported to his country of origin." Try the wikipedia entry on this guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+18"If you read the article and not the title you would see that he was not even tortured by the U.S., he was simply deported to his country of origin."
I think this comment speaks volumes about the right wing in America. Even when confronted with overwhelming evidence that we are doing things we condemn third world dictators for they'll find some absolutely bizarre way to rationalize it.
It's like they just can't admit to the facts. Sometimes I wonder how the Nazis were able to get away with killing millions of people. This is how they did it. An entire nation just decided not to see it. They accepted the government lies and kept living their lives and did what this person is doing. Rationalize away the horror of people they helped install in office.
Here are the facts: We sent an innocent man, a citizen of a friendly neighbor, to a foreign country to be tortured. This is not the only person we've done it to. It's a heinous, un-American, ungodly, horrible thing and WE DID IT. You voted for the people who did it. Is that clear enough for you? Did it finally sink in that YOU are one of the people enabling this behavior? - carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16not keeping up with latest doublethink is a thoughtcrime, please report to room 101 for untorture.
- MakinBacon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15Though there has been no official apology by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, there have been two important apologies from Canada.
1. Parliament unanimously agreed to an apology:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/09/20/1868365-ap.html
2. Arar thanked commissioner of RCMP for his apology:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/09/29/arar-rcmp.html - Ultroniar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Regardless of where you stand on the war on terror, I don't see how you can defend what happened here. Both countries are in the wrong, that I'll allow. But no apology... That's just cold. They imprisoned the guy for nothing and then tortured him.
And manifestdata - you aren't comparing like with like. The Canadian information "very likely" led to his arrest. The US tortured and imprisoned him. One is a mistake in information, the other is a denial of basic human rights. The blame for the torture and false imprisonment falls squarely with the US here. The US owes him much more than Canada does - both should apologize, but it's ridiculous to think that Canada is as guilty as America.
One made a mistake - that only "likely" led to his arrest. The other tortured him, and kept him prisoner for 6 months. And you try to pass the buck. Maybe the US should have checked the information?! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16@fauxXenophanes:
yes it is canadas fault we sent him to be tortured
but the us doesnt torture nor do we send people to countries to be tortured
and syria is our enemy... oh i am so confused
SO i guess it is canadas fault we sent him to not be tortured..
someone needs to send me a new copy of the doublespeak dictionary before the ministry of truth gets me. - kaemaril, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I'm sorry, he was "captured"? I think you mean detained and then deported to a country known to torture, which is against UNCAT ...
Both America AND Canada should be ashamed. Canada at least seems vaguely remorseful while America just stands there with a big grin on its face saying 'Yeah, but I don't care. Bite me.' - CursorTN, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15WTF? And people wonder why America is popularly demonized throughout the Muslim world. We have wonderful ideals (freedom, liberty, due process, fair play) which we raise our children to believe, and then our politicians circumvent them at will.
Washington needs to live up the the ideals it espouses. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14I really dont care who is screwing up america, it has to stop.
I get so sick of the "clinton-did-it's"
SO what, does that automatically make it right?
I think clinton is another asshat, so saying clinton did it, doesnt sway me none.
washignton had slaves, i guess we should get bush some slaves.
This is america we are supposed to get more civilized each day, not less.
It is such a lame cop out, well this is clintons policy... WEll then stop it, come forward and say look at this crap clinton passed, this is unamerican, and we wont put up with it becuse this isnt how we do things. ANd the GOP numbers would sore. BUt ya'll never do becaause you want this crap, you simply wil balme it on someone else and leave it in place ANd to me that is as bad as creating the problem in the first place. - Ultroniar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12"Where is the Canadian Apology? Funny how the Canadian author ignores this fact."
The Canadian apology is on that wikipedia page. Funny how you ignore this fact. America owes an apology, and is showing no signs of giving one. Yet you defend this?! - niczar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12C'm'on, it's not the US's fault! Just like, if you kill someone yourself, you're a murderer, but if you pay a hit man to do the job for you, it's not like you're going to get in any kind of legal trouble, isn't it?
- DigDugDigger, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9"One minor point on the post though, the statement that he ended up in Syria kind of misses the point, he was flown there by the US to be tortured."
Like Bush said, we don't torture. - acff, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12he was detained illegally and was told he had no right to a lawyer by US authorities. he told the US govt that if he is deported, he WILL be tortured in syria. the US directly hands him over to the torturers.
when can we expect to see news about the US govt doing something right? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9You mean this Canadian apology?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar#RCMP_Apology
I agree with you though that Canada and the US need to try to make Arar whole. And extraordinary rendition needs to stop. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10No, you aren't the only one.
The only question is how far do we as a country let this go. At some point, it's our duty to take up arms.
The problem is that, much like in Germany's case, it's much easier to decide to take up arms after the floodwalls have been breached. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9he is also the second innocent man (that we know of) that was tortured by the US(and no i dont see the distinction when we send him to another country to be tortured, that is still being tortured by the US).
WE also tortured that german, refused to appologise, and then had his lawsuit thrown out of court on the "state secrets clause"
like noone knows we rendition. - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7This is an act of war, Canada! Just head south, mostly; shouldn't be much resistance, our military is too busy losing the war on "terra" to defend the "homeland".
- CursorTN, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Yes, you spelled it right:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/facetious - Lephturn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Here is where the head of the RCMP apologized.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2006/09/rcmp_chief_apologizes_to_arar.html
No "sorry" from Harper... but then Harper wasn't the PM when it occured. The Liberal Paraty kept trying to get Harper to deliver the apology, which is rich since it was the Liberals that were in power when it happened. He did get an apology from Parlaiment though.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/09/20/1868365-ap.html
As a Canadian, it is regrettable that this happened, but I can understand it given the atmosphere at the time. - ClosedCaption, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7But I thought that all the people we capture are terrorist captured on the battlefield?
- Ultroniar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5No I don't agree.
They did not "hand him to the US". He was detained by the US on a stopover at JFK. I am not absolving Canada of blame here - but look at the facts. It has since been released that Canadian consular officials had no idea he would be deported. They provided his name to an ally on the War on Terror. That is all they are guilty of. America imprisoned him, and then handed him over to Syria for torture. I certainly don't think that Canadian officials thought America would do that to a Canadian citizen.
The main point wrong in your post is the phrase "stayed in Canadian custody" He was never in Canadian custody. He was detained in America. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5With any luck, 2 years.
- CursorTN, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@repins
This is the problem--you have bought into the media's depiction of 'the Muslim world.'
The media here has sensationalized the cultural differences so that people like you believe all Muslims are hypocritical barbarians that perform female circumcision, burn American flags, and sympathize with the 9/11 hijackers.
The media there has sensationalized American culture as embracing sexual depravity, being in a state of moral bankrupcy, discriminating wholesale against Muslims, and being led by a dangerous madman.
This is the worst time for propagation of such ignorance--as Thomas Freedman as pointed out the world is getting relatively smaller--and I fear that as it does so the West and the Muslim world are going to come into greater and greater conflicts. Without education on both sides the future looks very grim indeed.
It certainly is an uphill battle, as your post demonstrates. - Lephturn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Oh and don't absolve the Canadian government of blame here Ultroniar. Trust me, the Canadian intelligence system had a really good idea what the US would do. Why do you think they handed him to the US? They knew damn well the US would ship him back, where if he stayed in Canadian custody that couldn't happen. The blame is shared in this case pretty evenly I'd say.
- rtini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3The really frustrating thing about this is that he left Syria when he was 17 years old, in 1987. Since then he has earned a masters degree in computer science, he got married, he has children. He is simply not a Syrian, is is a Canadian and he was carrying a Canadian passport when he was detained on a stop in New York on the way home to Canada. He reminds me of our ancestors who came to America for a better life.
If he was on a terrorist suspect list, he should have been sent home to Canada for Canadian authorities to deal with. - carpespasm, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4just listen for the 1812 overture to play around the fifth of november in washington.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6@Ultroniar:
the neos wont let pesky facts stand in the way of them trying to pass the blame onto someone else.
DOnt you know the US doesnt torture and if we did it was do to laws made by clinton.
WE also dont rendition people to countries that torture and if we did it was based on laws that clinton made.
WE also dont make mistakes, but if we did i am sure it was canadas fault
Ofcourse canada didnt know we would use the info they gave us and have the guy tortured... You know historically it has been safe to send even the most evil men to the us for questioning, because we stood ontop of a moral cloud, we were the one country in the world you could be sure that fairness and humanity would prevail... but not anymore and i guess i am sure it was all clintons fault and somehow clinton was soooo powerful that Bush cant even overturn him. - cranium, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's amazing that people's ability to think can get so twisted that they put deporting somebody on the same level as terrorism.
Get back to me when you guys have a clue. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'd enjoy watching you explain that to Jesus Christ himself...
- rtini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Yes, you are right. We should have turned him in - to Canada.
- rtini, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3He should have been sent to Canada, since he was a Canadian citizen and lived there. He was born in Syria, but he left Syria to live in Canada to make a better life for himself and his children - specifically, he left when he was 17 to avoid mandatory military service for Syria. He's just like all of our ancestors who moved to America to make a better life for themselves and their children. He earned a BS and MS degree in computer science in Canada and has a wife and children there. It his his home and has been since 1987 when he was 17, in other words, all of his adult life.
In sending him to Syria, the USA took advantage of the technicality that this man still had citizenship in Syria, since nobody had revoked it from him. It was an ugly thing to do, and it was done deliberately.
He deserves, at the VERY LEAST, an apology. He really deserves much more than that - like monetary compensation. He should probably sue just to set a precedence - like when people sue for $1 to make a statement. - acff, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4the US, canada, jordan, syria... they were all wrong, but i don't expect an apology from all of them anytime soon. it's just sick that an innocent man can go through all of this and afterwards those countries will pretend that he never existed. though when he was detained, he most certainly did exist. for good measure, they beat arar so he could feel his existence as well.
- Ultroniar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Oh ok. So your justification for what is being done is - well the terrorists do it. So basically, you are admitting to being no better than them. Wow, sure looks like you guys are winning.
And I don't want you to treat them like gold, I just want your country (assuming you are American) to obey it's own constitution. You know that "All men are created equal" part?! You know it was that Constitution that used to make America so great... - Gunite, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I agree. And I'm amazed at how quickly and easily US liberties are being gutted, and at the apparent apathy of the population. Think about all the implicit criticism leveled at the German people for those events in the 20th century. Yet here we see the same events unfold in a scale that is appropriate for the 21st century.
- rtini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2We did not deport him, we sent him to a country that is simply not his home. He is a Canadian citizen, has lived in Canada since he was 17 years old, educated in Cadana, married in Canada, has a wife and kids and home in Canada.
We SHOULD have deported him back to his country - CANADA! - repins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1My Muslim Community is not the "Muslim Community" that is strapping on bomb belts, beheading journalists, killing women and children, raping as punishment, and banning religious freedom. So, explain to be how spending time with them is going to help me better understand the extremists?
Explain to me why the world "Muslim Community" is not speaking out about the horrors that are being perpetrated on the people of Iraq by the Muslim "insurgency". Where are the speeches of condemnation? - Zaetha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1>"One minor point on the post though, the statement that he ended up in Syria kind of misses the point, he was flown there by the US to be tortured."
>
>Like Bush said, we don't torture.
1) Outsource work to India, check.
2) Outsource torture to Syria, check.
3) ?????
4) Profit! - smileygirl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2If someone I know is a terror suspect, I will turn them in--no problem. I would not harbor them.
- ClosedCaption, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Lobbying for Torture?
Alberto Gonzalez saying anything short of Organ Failure isnt Torture?
Cheney's "dunk in the water" comment? - smileygirl, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Why hasn't anyone asked why he was tortured in Syria??? I know everyone hates the US on this site, but I don't see what the US did wrong. If a US citizen was overseas and was picked up by Immigration in one country and accused of terrorist activity by another country, wouldn't you want that person sent back to the US instead of put into a prison in a foreign country? The US had no say in this case---the man was born in Syria and was a Canadian citizen and it wasn't our call. Besides if a person hangs out with known terrorists they have to expect that they will be suspect too.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I read this guys entire story. At no point does he state or suggest American's tortured him. In fact, his Canadian consul visited him 8 times and did nothing to help him. I think Canada owes him an apology. Stop the Blame America first, shoot-from-the-hip rhetoric and try reading the facts for once.
http://www.maherarar.ca/mahers%20story.php - Obvioustroll, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1See, I have one basic problem with all of this: Syria isn't an ally of the United States; I simply cannot believe that Bashar al-Asad would interrogate or torture some at the request of George Bush. That makes no sense!
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