What is Digg?170 Comments
- Latraki, on 10/10/2007, -8/+120This fellow is a little late to the party. This has been going on awhile. A good starting point would be
December 23, 1913 The Federal Reserve is created by Woodrow Wilson.
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form
of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover
that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment
on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the
public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose
fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has
been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through
the following sequence
1. From bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage "
Alexander Tyler
1787 - imgstacke, on 10/10/2007, -2/+44The US is a Republic.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -8/+35Ron Paul can save the country and restore the Constitution
- anitab83, on 10/10/2007, -3/+22Uhhh ... who did you take history lessons from? Rome started as a republic/democracy as well ... the foundations of Rome are not terribly different than those of the U.S.
- Ghoztt, on 10/10/2007, -2/+20War in Mesopotamia? Check. Moral decline? Check. Giving citizenship to the uneducated denizens? Check. Fall... here we come :(
- apologeticus, on 10/10/2007, -3/+21It's certainly not an original thought, but he is correct. With a heavily indebted citizenry, a degrading nuclear family, and immigration gone amok, we can't expect to continue in our prosperity. While actual citizens are increasingly losing interest in having children, particularly the educated ones, the illegals are reproducing like bunnies while clamoring for more and more governmental handouts. How can anyone call this guy's comments "alarmist?"
- Secularian, on 10/10/2007, -4/+21Rome eventually imploded. We are definitely following its lead. We may not be -precisely- the same as Rome, but we are similar in many, many ways. We are Rome 2. Our foreign policy could also be affectionately called the Crusades 2. History repeats itself.
- ctrlfreak13, on 10/10/2007, -0/+11And so was Rome....
At least in theory... towards the fall the senate became weak and had little real power, kinda like how Congress gave in to the Bush Administration in passing the new FISA Act - chillmandan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+12This stretches far beyond Bush man. Obviously you are so quick to judge Bush that you fail to realize that the current state of the U.S. has to do with decades of fiscal and foreign policy. Not to say that Bush doesn't suck, but we dug ourselves into this whole way before he was in power.
- SuperCUBE, on 10/10/2007, -9/+19Wow. Both times you used 'there' and 'their' you were wrong. That's pathetic.
The US is a republic, BTW. - horatiolust, on 10/10/2007, -3/+13From snopes.com
+++++++++++
The quote from "Alexander Tyler" is very likely fictitious. His name was actually "Lord Woodhouselee, Alexander Fraser Tytler," and he was a Scottish historian/professor who wrote several books in the late 1700s and early 1800s.
However, there is no record of The Fall of the Athenian Republic or The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic in the Library of Congress, which has several other titles by Tytler. This quote has also been cited as being from Tytler's Universal History or from his Elements of General History, Ancient and Modern, books that do exist. These books seem the most likely source of the quote, as they contain extensive discussions of the political systems in historic civilizations, including Athens. Universal History was published after, and based upon, Elements of General History, which was a collection of Professor Tytler's lecture notes.
Tytler's book, Universal history, from the creation of the world to the beginning of the eighteenth century, is available for viewing and searching on-line - www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=moa;idno=ABW5010.
The complete text was searched for each of the following phrases:
Athenian Republic
democracy
generous gifts
public treasury
loose fiscal
fiscal
bondage
200 years
two hundred years
spiritual faith
In no case was text identified that was remotely similar in words or intent to the alleged Tytler quote. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+10Americans are a light on classical history these days. George Washington could have told you all about the Roman Republic. He could have told you about how Fabius defeated Hannibal by dogging him around the Italian peninsula for eight years. As a matter of fact in his day, Washington was called America's Fabius.
Our nascent country's government was modelled on the Roman Republic. That is why our senior legislative body is called a Senate. That is why the Capitol building was designed to look Roman.
It is unfortunate but nobody studies history any more.
If they did, they would know that the Republic survived about 450 years until Julius Caesar marched on Rome. Among other things that brought the Republic down were:
1.- A professional army that no longer relied on conscripted citizens. These armies then became dependent on their commanders and they were used for offensive rather than defensive purposes.
2.- Constant foreign wars.
3.- A debasing and lowering of the standards in politics.
Apparently David Walker reads a little more history than you diggers - inactive, on 10/29/2007, -6/+14Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, published research on fascism in which he examined the fascist regimes of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each fascist State:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarceration of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists; terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military are glamorized.
5. Rampant sexism - The government of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are intertwined - Government in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation are often the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated, or are severely restricted.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassinations of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Benito Mussolini - who knew something about fascism - had a more straightforward definition: “Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.”
Abraham Lincoln stated, “I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me, and causes me to tremble for the safety of our country. Corporations have been enthroned, an era of corruption will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people, until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the republic is destroyed.” - whatthefu, on 10/10/2007, -5/+13Dupe, except this time it's on a blog so it makes it ok.
[/sarcasm] - aslave2thegrind, on 10/10/2007, -5/+12My World History teacher was saying this in high school, in the same exact terms. Class of 94. Go Cats!
- insanebrain, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7So ??? I speak fluent Dutch.
- abid786, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9It also requires people to use their heads when voting. Unfortunately, many vote for the candidate whose name they see the most of in the media (mostly television).
- diggface5000, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Financial instability is the American Way!! Take a look at how many people are in debt for things they didn't actually need and tell me if it's any surprise that as a country we choose an unsustainable financial path.
- manicallday, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8Although there are similarities between Rome and the United States, I don't think it correlates to the demise of the United States. But I do believe that our Hegemony status maybe in jeopardy. I really think that we need to get back to basics with our international policy and stop listening to people like Richard Pearl. Also we need to restrain Multinational Corporations from having as much influence as they do over our international policy. If we can get back to doing these things we can maintain hegemony, which is important because the next inline is probably China.
- rebrad, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7Really? You trust voting machines?
- patch6, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7wholesale currency debasement, check
- NoTiG, on 10/10/2007, -6/+12Great quote. I think we are on #6 and #7 with a smidgen of 8 . The government is not meant to be our provider. So vote Ron Paul who will correct the situation!
- TheRedCoat, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7You may be good with the "there" Vs "their", but you can't count...Good job.
- facelogic, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6So morality is defined by public consensus?
- flipmeat, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Rome didn't have weapons with a yield, in some cases, of IX megatons.
- DiggDuggDugged, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7It sounds like the guy missed the most telling parallel: the loss of income for the masses. The Roman legions brought home thousands of slaves annually during the latter years of Empire, starving citizens with menial, low wage professions. This process started with small farmers and would eventually affect most of the plebeian (lower) class of citizens and would eventually lead to all sorts of ills in Roman society.
The same sort of thing is happening in America now. Our manufacturing base has been gutted, shipped overseas. Family farmers are disappearing, usually swallowed by corporate farms. Menial labor jobs are mostly filled by cheap, illegal immigrant labor. On the one hand, this is all very good if you're a consumer. Whether it's a healthy thing for a citizen is probably a different matter. When your society loses the ability to make the things it needs on it's own things are probably going in a bad way.
Of course most of us (if not all) will probably be dead before real economic disaster strikes so why the hell should we care? - Randinn, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7Wow, and you're a good reason why neither side has any worth....
- NoTiG, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5If you read the article that isn't really correct.
""The fact is, is that we don't face an immediate crisis," he told CBS. "And, so people say, 'What's the problem?' The answer is, we suffer from a fiscal cancer. It is growing within us. And if we do not treat it, it could have catastrophic consequences for our country."" - chopenik, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Good points. Americans, my self included, somehow thinks that some mysterious force protects us from all the things the rest of the world experienced. That kind of mentality tends to blind people and become apathetic. For some reason we all think that this country is on some kind of auto-pilot and requires no interaction on our behalf.
- vondur, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Buried as inaccurate, we do not speak Latin.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5I think you may have missed the larger point with such a literal reading of the article.
- OBKenobi, on 10/10/2007, -10/+14Emperor Bush has no pants.
- MrEguy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4NO, it's not a Democratic Republic. The United States is a Republican Democracy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_democracy - nydrak, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4The Declaration and the Constitution were unique in the world giving power to the individual. I'm afraid it won't be as simple as you assume.
- wm2010russ, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5rome began as a monarchy- where do you take your history lessons from?
- Mouse13, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Well US was under the British Monarchy for hundreds of years before finally establishing the Democratic Republic. So while it wasn't a monarchy, it was subjected to one, making it similar to Rome.
- GliTCH82, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Watch Zeitgeist, even the guys up top are completely aware that if you repeat the same thing over and over again in the media, people generally tend to believe it. The same could apply to exposure to a new personality or a politician running for office.
Sure some of us are more intelligent than that, but we're talking about the majority here, and let's face it, the majority of people are just not smart. - charityslave, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4The largest expenditure of the Federal Government? Defense. Anyone who questions the size of the defense budget would immediately be labeled "weak" at best and "traitorous" at worst. Even the most left wing Dems don't touch that one. No one says "You know, this level of military spending is wasteful, unnecessary and unsustainable". We don't even have the beginnings of a dialog on this. A recent GAO study found that over a trillion dollars of military appropriations was MISSING. Not mis-spent or wasted, but simply gone. And no one even squeaked. If I had to guess where the seeds of our destruction lie, I think I'd go with this situation.
- aurorous, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Collapses usually center around a scarcity of resources and a lot of violence. In our case everyone knows the collapse of the USA will be caused by a scarcity of oil. take away oil and MANY millions of people will starve to death. Mostly in the major cities because no one grows food in new york. And without oil you can't transport food anywhere.
What you term as "cool" the people who actually live through it will remember it as a nightmare.
It's such a god damn shame nobody understands how good we have it today. - insanebrain, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3texas ranger ??
- Pilot85, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4It'll be violent. it always is. People will die. A lot of people, most likely. Not my idea of hella cool.
- chase001, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6Another great omission by the "liberal media". If we didn't have alternative news sources all we would have is missing white girls and "we have no idea what's going on with the trapped coal miners or (insert tragedy here), but we are still going to talk about it twenty four hours a day".
- evilregis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Guess I should start learning Mandarin...
- Tippis, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Oh look! It's the old "US is a republic, not a democracy" idiocy again...
[cut-and-paste the standard response to this nonsense]
"Republic" and "democracy" are not mutually exclusive because they sit on completely different axes:
Republic (n) A state in which the supreme power rests in the people and their elected representatives or officers, as opposed to one governed by a king or similar ruler; a commonwealth. Now also applied loosely to any state which claims this designation.
Democracy (n) Government by the people; that form of government in which the sovereign power resides in the people as a whole, and is exercised either directly by them (as in the small republics of antiquity) or by officers elected by them.
Republic (as opposed to monarchy) describes who wields the executive power of the state: an elected official, rather than some hereditary rank.
Democracy (as opposed to dictatorship) describes who decides how the government is put together: the general public, rather than a single despot.
Between these two axes, you can have any kind of combination:
Democratic republics (US, France, Germany, India); Dictatorial republics (ye olde banana repulic); Democratic monarchies (UK, Sweden, Australia, Canada); Dictatorial monarchies (ye olde feudal state).
Neither of the two can exist on their own. You cannot simply be "a republic" because you need to decide who that republic represents: the people or the one guy in charge, and without that representation you have no claim to sovereignty as a nation.
Likewise, you cannot simply be "a democracy" because you need to determine what the people is deciding on -- without it, you have no state.
Therefore, claiming that "we are a republic, not a democracy" is the equivalent of saying "we have these elected guys in charge of something, but we are not a sovereign nation." - Randinn, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Keep that head in the sand....
- tybris, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Bush getting stabbed to death in the senate should be quite a spectable.
- reuteler, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5The fall of Rome had more to do with declining population and its resultant loss of man power than moral decay. the Roman Empire (the Roman Republic died with Julius Caesar, btw) was powered by man power as we are powered by oil.
- mal1964, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Ron Paul doesn't speak Dutch but he believes in dating dutch and loves Old Dutch potato chips.
- geekee, on 10/10/2007, -3/+5Europe will collapse before the US. Watch France's economy for clues to the future of the US.
- Randinn, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Why?
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