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Tony Snow Lies About Emails: Clinton Did it too, Except he didn't

thinkprogress.org — In 1993, President Clinton’s then-Assistant to the President John Podesta issued a staff memo clearly stating that all administration e-mails dealing with official business had to be “incorporated into an official recordkeeping system,” stressing that no “e-mail document that is a Presidential record should be deleted.”

Who dugg this? Made popular Jun 20, 2007

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  • JCSaint, on 10/11/2007, -8/+73@chi1thook,

    It's nice to see that you're carrying on the GOP tradition of accusing, trying and finding guilty without evidence, or even in the face of exculpatory evidence. You should be a Congressman.
  • pintomp3, on 10/11/2007, -4/+60to be fair, i wouldn't say he's a flunky. he went from spreading lies and propaganda on one channel to doing it on all of them.
  • theballdredge, on 10/11/2007, -2/+56@chi1thook

    heres the thing though, lets just assume for a second that your baseless accusations are correct.

    ITS STILL AGAINST THE LAW. not holding someone accountable for breaking the law is STILL the wrong thing to do. period. i though republicans were law and order types? not interested in justice now that its your boys on the wrong side of the line?
  • kenvsryu, on 10/11/2007, -7/+60What do you expect from a Fox News flunky?
  • mikelieman, on 10/11/2007, -2/+48Ethics.
  • johnhummel, on 10/11/2007, -4/+46OK, let's break this down for those who don't get it.

    Back in the early 1970's, Nixon made tapes, had correspondence, then when the investigation into Whitewater started sniffing around his panties, he had an excuse:

    "Uh, I lost the paperwork."

    So there was a law passed that basically says "All correspondence from the White House for official white house business will be stored forever, so we can catch your lying ass."

    Fast forward to the 1990's, when Clinton is in office, and the Republicans take the legislature for the first time in decades. Hatch gets a law put together that says "You can't use Presidential/Government resources to fund your campaign" - this way, you can't print out 260,000,000 letters on white house stationary and get the US taxpayers to pay for your reelection campaign.

    So the Clinton folks set up two separate lines of communication: line 1 is official emails, phone calls, letters, and so on for the white house business. The second set are a set of phone lines, email accounts, and other items strictly for campaign business. Which actually is a benefit, since they don't want their campaign stuff leaked out to the public I'm sure.

    Now, fast forward to the Bush era. We have emails going to people like Monica Goodling and Karl Rove and Alberto Gonzales and the rest about who should be hired and fired from the attorney generals - clearly "White House Business". But as emails from Goodling and McNulty and others show, there were "out of bounds" communications using Republican email accounts *to conduct official White House business that should have been captured and stored as part of the law*.

    When those emails came under investigation and the request to see them (remember that 1972 law that says "White house stores all official communication" the response has been "Oh, duhhhhh, we lost them! Sorry!"

    *That* is the difference between that Clinton did and the Bush administration has done. The Bush administration has used the separate email channels not to keep campaign and official work separate, but to hide data that is required to be stored from the public to frustrate investigations. Which, in and of itself, is illegal.

    Before we start "but- but Clinton!" arguments, make sure you know this data, *then* argue from there.

    So, now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
  • Ecowarrior, on 10/11/2007, -4/+32"bu... bu... bu... but Clinton" I'm sick of hearing this, how much longer is this going to thought of by republicans as a legitimate answer to anything? I didn't live in the US during the Ford administration... was there a lot of "bu... bu... but Nixon"? I don't remember "bu... bu... bu... but Ford". However I have heard "bu... bu.. but Carter"... being that's it's from same folks that do the Clinton thing, so I don't put much stock in it.

    Do we have a lot of "Bu... bu... but Bush!" to look forward to?
  • zeroeffect, on 10/11/2007, -3/+30It's not just deleted emails, but the conversations contained in those deleted emails, you know, things like voter suppression (caging) and who knows what other illegal activities. What was contained in those emails was likely much more damaging to the Bush administration. It is far from the trivial issue you try to make it out to be.
  • adr4, on 10/11/2007, -10/+36I think Nixon had a better shot at stayin president than Bush would if this ever went to impeachment trials. Good thing the war he wrapped us up in is keeping our senators quiet as his second stolen election lets him lead us through a war noone wants to be in till then end of his term. He'll probably be impeached after he's already out of office, if that's even possible. The republicans will feign shock and ignorance and act morally outraged.
  • JCSaint, on 10/11/2007, -1/+27@cawpin,

    Before you make baseless accusations, file a FOIA request and get back to us. Also, anything still not sealed should be available at the Clinton Library. Let us know how that turns out.
  • xtmno3, on 10/11/2007, -0/+21@ecowarrior (#7279518) said: "Do we have a lot of "Bu... bu... but Bush!" to look forward to?"

    I hope not. Hearing a "bu...bu...bu...but Bush did something" would mean that the next administration is trying to do something the same as the current one, and using that as the justification. I hope they don't do anything the current administration is doing (with very few exceptions).

    On a side note: Why do we still here about Clinton and his mistakes 7 years after he is in office? You would think the current group could fix problems like this (supposedly) in 7 years!
  • faskippy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+21Oh no! Clinton must have done it too! Geez. That is a great argument!!! I bet no one ever thought of using that one.
  • inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+21@courtesyflush
    "Why do we hear about Clinton a lot?"

    Because the right wing seems to think that making up crap about Bill Clinton excuses George Bush's war crimes.
  • zeroeffect, on 10/11/2007, -3/+21Attack the messenger not the facts. Republican propaganda 101. Would you like to dispute the claim made? Can you back up those claims? No, didn't think so.

    Nothing like watching the republicans and the Bush administration try to cover their tracks when it comes to voter suppression, firing of attorney's for failing to follow orders and investigate democrats during election time and destroying government communications.
  • bemenaker, on 10/11/2007, -0/+17Clinton shouldn't have been brought into this conversation in the first place. How sad is it when the White House has to resort to web forum tactics like, "CLINTON DID IT!!!!"
  • hawkeye17, on 10/11/2007, -3/+18It seems the Right WIngers around here believe it's OK to break the Law as long as your a Republican. Then again, it's very hard to defend the indefensible isn't it?
  • mrgreen4242, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15So what you are saying is one of:

    1) They didn't delete emails that should have, by law, been saved, and anyone who says otherwise is obviously rebel scum, I mean a liberal hippy.
    2) Person A breaks the law, doesn't get caught or at least formally accused of it, so it makes it OK for Person B to do the same thing, even though it's still illegal.
    3) It wasn't actually illegal for them to destroy this communication record.

    Regardless of this particular incident, the core issue is still the same. Whether Tony Snow lied about something is largely irrelevant.We know he's a liar. There's video evidence of him saying things that he himself later says aren't true. Whether he lied about this as well is pointless. The real issue is what was deleted, why, who deleted it and on who's authority, and why an entire half of our government (and apparently 30% or so of our citizens) think that "Clinton did it too" is a valid excuse for something.
  • spurtle, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14I thought the adults were running the country. This "But.. but.. but Clinton" excuse sounds like grade school *****.
  • bemenaker, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13How about the whole principle of Government by the people, of the people, FOR the people.

    We own the government not the other way around. There are rules and laws about keeping record of all official business conducted by the White House. Even classified business (military matters only, or that's how classification is SUPPOSED to work), has to be archived for future reference. Classification is not permanent. All government work is public record. That is how a democracy works.
  • laserblazer, on 10/11/2007, -5/+17Lying is the language of the Bush camp and selling out Americans is their mission.

    Mission Accomplished.
  • drlha, on 10/11/2007, -8/+20Not a Fox News flunky, but a "current administration" flunky, the same as he was when he worked for Fox News.
  • cheesegrits, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13When Bush was first elected in 2000, my Dad said, "Take this to the bank, George Bush will be the worst president of the last 30 years, he may outdo Nixon. He has the two worst political hacks pulling his strings- Karl Rove and Dick Cheney. They will end up hurting the USA abroad and home. "
    I said, "No, George is not that bad, he seems to have to decent ideas. And being a conservative, he may be able to do things the Democrats could not do. I do not think he will be that bad of a President. He will grow into the job and I do not think he will let Cheney and Rove tell him what to do."
    Well, here is my apology to my Dad. "Dad, you were right and I was wrong."
  • galael, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13Oh my! Someone didn't get his lovin's this morning, did he. It's alright. We here at Digg understand your need to vent your impotent rage. If I had voted for Bush and had blood on my hands, I'd be very angry with myself, too.
  • UGM2099, on 10/11/2007, -2/+14@courtesyflush

    Don't forget, he killed over 2000 people. *rolls eyes*
  • PhantomRogue, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Beaten by Mike
  • decadre, on 10/11/2007, -3/+14Did e-mails even exist in '94 when Clinton first took office?

    Well even though I'm joking I don't even think I got my first e-mail address until somewhere around the mid 90s, and even then I don't really remember using it much until the late 90's.

    Question should really be, were e-mails used 7+ years ago like they are today?
  • fotd42, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10I'd love to see Bush get nailed for getting a blow job, just for the typical Republican spin.

    "Of course he got a blow job, he's just your regular working class joe, a guy you'd like to grab a beer with, and a guy who likes to get his dick sucked every once in a while. You know who hates blow jobs? Terrorists. Freedom Haters. You're not one of those, are you?"

    Of course Fox News would be screaming their irrelevant heads off about how Clintons blow job was different and that real red blooded Americans love blow jobs, and that the blow job was actually part of the global war on terror. And obviously, the "Clinton did it" line, so that must make it ok. Seriously, how can anyone keep a straight face at these press conferences?
  • Elranzer, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11But... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but... but......... CLINTON!!!!
  • inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+11"Instead of refuting the facts"

    Damn, dude, even if your list of bullcrap had some "facts" in it, it still wouldn't justify the Bush administration's crime wave. Nothing Bill Clinton did excuses George Bush's crimes. Can you understand that simple fact?
  • Agilus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9This is a long held republican tradition - IOKIYAR = It's OK if you are Republican.
  • flaminio, on 10/11/2007, -2/+11I find it endlessly entertaining when Bush and the GOP use Clinton as the bar for ethics
  • JCSaint, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9@bonhoeffer

    Here ya go...

    "The Clinton administration’s policy also made clear that personal and political e-mail accounts — which are generally exempt from the Presidential Records Act — could not be used for official business. Indeed, the Bush administration has seemingly implemented a policy opposite of the Clinton administration’s."

    This current administration was conducting official business with RNC and Bush/Cheney Campaign email accounts. And then deleting them. One can only speculate that they were deleted because they're trying to hide evidence of violations of the Hatch Act but I suppose we'll never know for certain unless the emails can be recovered.
  • zeroeffect, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9"Ok.. so sending out a staff memo and actually doing it are two different things."

    But it still doesn't mean that Clinton did it. It's like Bush being AWOL from the National Guard maybe it happened, but their is just no evidence to back it up. Tony Snow's remarks are nothing more than slander meant to mislead the American public just as the Bush administration has done for the last six years. Mission Accomplished!
  • bemenaker, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8http://www.archives.gov/about/laws/presidential-records.html

    There is federal law requiring ALL presidential records kept. Even classified material has to be kept for the future when it declassifies.

  • blaze4metal, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9I wish Bush got a blowjob. Then we could finally impeach his ass when he lies about it (and you know he would).
  • inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9"you must admit that it's interesting that when Clinton did some of the things that Bush is doing now, there was not mass outrage like there is now"

    Are you kidding? For eight years the whole country was deluged by the GOP whining about every little thing Bill Clinton did. The right wing wasted millions of tax dollars chasing the absolute ***** called Whitewater. In the end, it turned out that Bill Clinton did absolutely nothing wrong in regards to Whitewater.

    Now, if you want to bring Clinton up on charges for his horrible Iraq policy, fine. His policy was almost as bad as Bush's. But to act like Bill Clinton didn't have the insane right wing up his ass with a microscope over nothing for eight years is simply wrong.
  • inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9"Clinton was instrumental in setting new lows in deceit, bribery, under the table deals, witness intimidation and legal shenanigans."

    Even were that true, it still doesn't excuse the Bush administration's criminal acts.

    Nothing Bill Clinton ever did excuses George Bush's criminal actions. Stop ***** trying to shift the blame.
  • Billistic, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Greg Palast has the emails...

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3954858769441262005&q=greg+palast&total=387&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5
  • zeroeffect, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Really, propaganda? What claims in the article are inaccurate. As for getting Bush impeached... that really won't do any good. What is important is to keep the neocons from getting back into office in 2008. And well, their doing a great job of sabotaging themselves. We just get back and watch them self destruct.
  • bemenaker, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7I dugg you up for your excellent Tony Snow impersonation there
  • johnhummel, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7sjaskow: damn it, I don't believe I did that. You are right - I meant to type in Watergate and put in Whitewater instead. I am wrong.
  • BloggerRadio, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7There isn't ONE honest and honorable human being associated with the Bush administration. Worst President in the history of human kind, bar none. Complete cluster. Tony Snow is just another of their hired whores. Here's an idea to solve the immigration debate ... let's keep the undocumented workers and deport the GOP and all of its supporters ... we come out WAY ahead! Sure, the illegal aliens violated ONE law ... but the GOP has broken ALL the laws ... including the laws of nature!
  • bemenaker, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Do as I say, not as I do. Isn't that the way of the far right?
  • UGM2099, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Well, after not doing so hot in the "restoring dignity to the White House" department what choice do you have but to claim you're no worse than your predecessor? That would be all well and good if they hadn't trashed the Clinton Administration so vigorously.
  • dime, on 10/11/2007, -3/+8The public didn't seem to care about the Downing Street memo, the illegal wiretapping, the response to Katrina, the disaster of postwar Iraq, the dissolving of habeas corpus, the Abramoff scandal...

    What's to stimulate them to care about this? Just tell them Clinton did it too, give them their ***** American Idol, and all is well in the world.
  • spyd3rweb, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5I love the 'CLINTON DID IT TOO' response from republican morons.
  • razor150, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5It is pretty sad when those in the White House start using that sad and tired excuse. I swear to God if Bush was found ***** a goat on the White House lawn the Republicans would find an excuse for it that would blame Clinton.

    To our dim witted Republican posters: Even if you are correct in saying Clinton did it as well, it still doesn't make it right. If I stole a car and used as a defense that my friend stole a car a first so I thought it was alright I would hope none of you are stupid enough to consider that a valid defense. Then again, most of you probably are. When has ignorance of the Law ever been a valid offense?
  • HouseofEl, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Clinton did it too? My response would be "So?" This isn't about Clinton. That sounds like a kid in grade school complaining because he is the only one that got caught doing something stupid. That's just sad and pathetic.
  • inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6@bonhoeffer
    "You would prefer no one point that out because?"

    Because it's irrelevent. Nothing Bill Clinton did excuses the Bush administration breaking the law. Is that clear?

    @courtesyflush
    "I certainly haven't mentioned Bush in this discussion"

    Exactly. This is a story about the Bush administration and their criminal destruction of evidence and you are still whining and crying about the ultra right wing's favorite boogieman, Bill Clinton.

    If you don't want to be challenged on your *****, don't bring it in here, crybaby.
  • InferiorWang, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Snow: "But those email accounts were set up, A, on a model based on the prior administration..."

    which we then modified to fit our own needs
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