What is Digg?Warning: The Content in this Article May be Inaccurate
Readers have reported that this story contains information that may not be accurate.Sponsored by Best Buy
Killer Gift For A Movie Buff view!
bestbuy.com - Insignia Blu-ray player instantly streams Netflix movies right to your TV & comes with a free disc.
450 Comments
- inactive, on 04/23/2009, -19/+282"While KSM was arrested in March 2003, the plot was stopped in February 2002 -- more than a year earlier. Rove's tale could not possibly be true."
- Dalhectar, on 04/24/2009, -19/+199I don't care if it torture did work.
It's not right.
It's not what we do.
Slaves built the pyramids right, that means slavery is good, right? - chadsexingtime, on 04/24/2009, -14/+188I prevented the apocolypse once.
Prove that I didn't. - angusm, on 04/24/2009, -11/+142I'm pretty sure that if you waterboarded me for 30 seconds, I'd be ready to confess to the assassination of Julius Caesar and willing to name my grandmother, John Lennon and the Easter Bunny as co-conspirators. I don't know how any information obtained under I Can't Believe It's Not Torture [tm] can be considered reliable.
When the 9/11 report came out, I was struck by how little the information revealed by KSM seemed to add to our knowledge of the attacks. It seemed to amount to "Yep, it all went down pretty much the way you said it did." Within a day or two of September 11th, the newspapers were already reporting a version of events that hasn't changed fundamentally since, and KSM's coerced testimony didn't contradict it or bring any surprising new revelations. The rest of his testimony (as reported by the media) seems to be similar: it's either confirmation of plots that were already public knowledge or vaguer descriptions of plots that were never executed.
I don't see any reason to think that he's not a Bad Dude. But I also wonder how much of what he told them was just a case of "How can I get them to stop drowning me? I know, I'll tell them something they already know, add a few details, and say I did it." - inactive, on 04/23/2009, -25/+150Oh- how I wish that Bush, Dick, Rove, Gonzales and the rest could be waterboarded- then after about 183 times (each)- asked if it's torture. Then moved on to the next "torture technique" and asked- is it torture now?
- Batfishy, on 04/23/2009, -17/+137Pathetic.
- bonmot5, on 04/24/2009, -12/+95The sad thing is how many people, at least people that I know, believe that the USA was well within our rights to do it. Now someone tell me how you can convince any middle eastern country to change their form of government to a democratic republic by using tactics that do not abide by the international treaties that we agreed to under the Geneva Conventions. It's as simple as that, did we or did we not agree to certain humanitarian guidelines, and have we violated those guidelines?
- kurttrail, on 04/24/2009, -7/+70I just assume that pretty much anything coming out of the mouth of Rove is a lie, until otherwise proved by a less biased source than Rove.
- funkyloki, on 04/24/2009, -2/+61Pics, or it didn't happen.
- chanop, on 04/24/2009, -4/+61I have this rock. Since I've had this rock there hasn't been a terrorist attack.
- SkippyDoorknob, on 04/24/2009, -0/+47I would like to purchase your rock. How much?
- jordanv1, on 04/24/2009, -8/+53This entire debate is tangential to the actual point about torture.
Obviously torture is ineffective. Science, psychology, etc., show us that. But let's pretend it can be used to gain reliable information, as Cheney et al are asserting, AND that there weren't more reliable ways of obtaining information. Guess what! TORTURE IS STILL WRONG.
Notice how the debate has shifted in recent weeks. When the Bush administration was in power, torture was always wrong, it was just your definition of what torture was (aka waterboarding) that could be debated. Now, on the other hand, torture is okay, as long as it's "effective."
No. It is not okay. We're American citizens. Our principles aren't simply idealized notions of an imaginary democratic utopia, they're honest and fundamental convictions that are realized on the founding documents of our nation. It's our duty to demand the government, like we do every day, live up to those principles.
P.S. I don't give a rat's ass if something comes from Michelle Malkin or from DailyKos (though those two are hardly equivalents). If it's factual and true, it's factual and true. Period. Whine about your bias to someone who cares. - GnralHavoc, on 04/24/2009, -1/+43It's true I have seen the hieroglyphic memo's from the Pharaoh.
- diggopolous, on 04/24/2009, -5/+47I'll waterboard you until you release the caplock key
- EnviroChem, on 05/22/2009, -6/+43"Is this torture now? Good."
.....
"Is this torture now? Good"
....
Hmmm... sounds like a commercial I've heard. - blackinthmiddle, on 04/24/2009, -3/+39Alright, let's try and respond to your statement with logic. So what you're saying is that we knew of the West Coast plot because Khalid Sheikh Mohammed bragged about it, before we arrested him, right? So...why the need waterboarding then? If we knew about it before we even arrested him, there would be absolutely no reason to torture the guy, right?
Secondly, an opinion is only as good as the evidence that backs it up. Where is your proof that he was bragging about this before officially being arrested? Let me guess, classified information that only you know about? - Insightful, on 04/24/2009, -8/+43Q: "Have any attacks on America been disrupted thanks to intelligence obtained through what the administration still calls “enhanced techniques”?"
A: “I don’t believe that has been the case.”
- Rpbert Mueller, Direct of FBI, 12/2008
http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2008/12/torture ... - bugwayji, on 04/24/2009, -8/+42 It would be nice if people understood the Saudi financing of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, in their ideology of Wahhabi. It is a regular comedy routine, watching American Presidents hanging out with the people who are actually their enemies, but it seems the whole nation is clued out.
- inactive, on 04/24/2009, -22/+54AMERICA DOES NOT ***** TORTURE. PERIOD
- inactive, on 04/24/2009, -3/+34Go here, if you are scared of kos actually telling the truth:
http://digg.com/politics/Al_Qaida_plot_to_bomb_Lib ...
Seriously people, it's simple. 2002 came BEFORE 2003. Bush said the plot happened in 2002 and they captured KSM in 2003. It really is that simple. - downinit369, on 04/24/2009, -4/+35To all you nut jobs who support torture, here are some quotes from someone who actually has experience with interrogating terrorists:
"Along with another F.B.I. agent, and with several C.I.A. officers present, I questioned Abu Zubaydah from March to June 2002, before the harsh techniques were introduced later in August. Under traditional interrogation methods, he provided us with important actionable intelligence."
"This experience fit what I had found throughout my counterterrorism career: traditional interrogation techniques are successful in identifying operatives, uncovering plots and saving lives. There was no actionable intelligence gained from using enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah that wasn’t, or couldn’t have been, gained from regular tactics. In addition, I saw that using these alternative methods on other terrorists backfired on more than a few occasions — all of which are still classified."
"Defenders of these techniques have claimed that they got Abu Zubaydah to give up information leading to the capture of Ramzi bin al-Shibh, a top aide to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, and Mr. Padilla. This is false. The information that led to Mr. Shibh’s capture came primarily from a different terrorist operative who was interviewed using traditional methods. As for Mr. Padilla, the dates just don’t add up: the harsh techniques were approved in the memo of August 2002, Mr. Padilla had been arrested that May."
The author was an F.B.I. supervisory special agent from 1997 to 2005. The full article can be found at http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/opinion/23soufan ... - christoast, on 04/24/2009, -5/+34perfect response to this dumb *****.
- Harabeck, on 04/24/2009, -0/+29I think a better example would be the US pre-Civil War. Slave labor helped clothe and feed millions thanks to plantations, but that sure doesn't make it right.
- Harabeck, on 04/24/2009, -7/+32Actually the pyramids were built by paid farmers in the off season. It actually gave them something to do when they would otherwise cause trouble.
- OUberLord, on 04/24/2009, -0/+22MIR burned up 8 years ago, so unless there is some super-secret space station the only one in orbit currently is the ISS.
The fact that the USA got to the moon is probably the biggest reason why Russia never did. The whole space race was the two nations swinging their space-peens at one another trying to be the best. When the USA got there first, I doubt to them it was worth all the extra effort just to get there second. - AndrewMoyer, on 04/24/2009, -6/+27Is it just me, or is the Bush Administration shaping up to make about as much sense as the plot to ABC's Lost?
Edit: At least I can actually kinda follow the plot to Lost. Maybe the Bush Administration knows where the island is for real and used it to travel back in time to stop the terrorist attack. Think about that! Our brains are just too small to understand how grateful we should be. - Skywise, on 04/24/2009, -10/+30Ahhhh FACTS! It burns us! Diggs it down, diggs it down!
- Dumbledorito, on 04/24/2009, -7/+27I never thought I'd see 9/11 result in a "East Coast/West Coast" rivalry. What are the proper signs to flash for supporting the chosen side, again?
- Kosh, on 04/24/2009, -0/+20Clearly you've never been to Vegas.
- CivicTV, on 08/14/2009, -2/+20Are you calling Bush a liar?
- curtisag, on 04/24/2009, -5/+23It's not torture until there's a consensus it's torture. So to convince the neo-cons, a little demonstration or experiment may be in order. Don't take his comment so seriously.
- Dumbledorito, on 04/24/2009, -1/+19The whole "asking nicely" thing is a misnomer. Actual interrogators will be the first to tell you that you're trying to make the prisoner believe that you're his friend, or that you'll help him (i.e. get a message to loved ones, get his family out of his country, etc.) if he cooperates.
This takes work, skill, and training, which doesn't sit well with the "quick fix" crowd who would just as soon come in with the thumbscrews to get some odd sense of payback rather than reliable information. - CaptainNoPants, on 04/24/2009, -0/+18That's just going to make him tell you he isn't using the caps lock key.
- brstilson, on 04/24/2009, -4/+22The alleged attacked was foiled in 2002, KSM was arrested and tortured in 2003. It doesn't matter how many memos you have, WATERBOARDING COULD NOT HAVE POSSIBLY FOILED THE ATTACK BECAUSE THE WATERBOARDING HAPPENED LONG AFTER THE ATTACK WAS FOILED.
- DrVic, on 04/24/2009, -5/+23It is not our place to convince other nations how to govern themselves. period.
- inactive, on 04/24/2009, -0/+18The slave can be put to death at any point by his owners, or sold to other owners, can have his family split up, and does not have the means to protect himself.
- Harabeck, on 04/24/2009, -2/+19Whether it cheapens out government or not is almost beside the point. It is simply wrong and makes more enemies than it helps catch.
- inactive, on 04/24/2009, -8/+25Doesn't matter which source it comes from, the plot was stopped a year earlier than KSM was arrested.
Does that fact not seem to register? The claim cannot possibly be true. - footbag01, on 04/24/2009, -2/+18If it helped them to stop the plot, then why did they let Reid on the plane? And were the passengers that stopped him undercover CIA?
- GoodOldNeon, on 04/24/2009, -1/+17which is why Iraq is such a farce.
- publiclurker, on 04/24/2009, -1/+17Were they actually paid or was the work on the pyramids done as a form of taxation? I don't remember ever seeing definitive proof one way or the other.
In any case, they were not slaves. - inactive, on 04/24/2009, -34/+50This isn't a "tale" told by Karl Rove or anyone else. It comes directly from a government released memo:
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx ...
"On Tuesday, the CIA confirmed to me that it stands by assertions credited to the agency in this 2005 memo that subjecting KSM to “enhanced techniques” of interrogation—including waterboarding—caused him to reveal information that allowed the U.S. government to stop a planned 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles.""
So I guess we can play the "the CIA is lying man!" game now. - Remelox, on 04/24/2009, -0/+15Get a telescope and shine a laser at the landing site. It will bounce back to you because the astronauts placed a series of mirrors there. With a good enough clock you can also tell exactly how far away that spot is from you at any point in time.
- funhouse1970, on 04/24/2009, -2/+17but it didn't work... creates a false confession
- Pigeon, on 04/24/2009, -7/+21It's clips of fox news spliced together to show the lie. I know DailyKos is biased but *****, you can't argue with words coming out of THEIR OWN MOUTHS.
- inactive, on 04/24/2009, -3/+17Yeah, the same 'WMD in Iraq is a slam dunk' guys.
big thumbs up, there. - Dweller99, on 04/24/2009, -6/+20The US doesn't torture. The US Waterboarded this guy. Waterboarding is not torture.
...right? - Harabeck, on 04/24/2009, -0/+13You're wrong Karmashock. The terrorist organizations who hate us recruit from the general population. The more people see the US doing immoral crap like this, the easier it is to convince average people to join them.
- inactive, on 04/24/2009, -7/+20No you won't.
- AgeofMastery, on 04/24/2009, -0/+13I think solid12345 just said that freedom means nothing to him.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 462 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is