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149 Comments
- secretwhistle, on 10/11/2007, -4/+86News...pa...per?
- meshman, on 10/11/2007, -2/+60They don't need fake ads with the New and Improved Fax Shredder!
Get pesky resume's every day? Tired of the fax machine filling up? Hiring the bosses son and need a competitive quote? Then buy the fax shredder! All you have to do is advertise for a job opening and leave the phone number of the fax shredder. Every 100th resume is preserved for reference but all others are recieved and shredded as they come in! No more walking those useless resumes to the shredder box, the Fax Shredder will do that for you without you having to lift a finger! Flip off thousands of qualified candidates with the flick of a switch. - BrokenBokken, on 10/11/2007, -2/+48I would have liked to see a couple samples of these fake ads.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -9/+51What a coincidence, almost all the news in the newspaper is fake/made up too!
- nevetS, on 10/11/2007, -0/+30I personally have witnessed this action on several occasions. I remember one incident in particular when they posted a requirement for experience with software I developed that had not even been released within the company - so the only people with experience were on our team. This was for a website developer in San Francisco just after the collapse when there were a bajillion applicants. Even without the experience, they received a stack of resumes larger than a ream of paper and rejected them all in favor of an H1-B that was already on staff.
I've seen it in the enterprise software consulting arena where there are plenty of Americans with more experience, better communication skills, and better training, but the Americans weren't willing to take the low pay - so bring on the H1s.
I can see the tie to keeping an H1 around that you've been working with for a while. It's not right, but it isn't easy to just say "hey - the job market changed so you have to go back home." It's not easy, but is it easy to break the law and put your company and yourself in legal trouble to avoid that conversation? Some people don't think.
I certainly have much less empathy for those who bring in the H1s just to save a buck - and even less when the PHD'd H1s they are bringing in could be replaced by a high school kid.
The companies that I've seen the most out of this from (and there have been A LOT) thrive on government contracts - especially when they can bill just for having a body on the premises without much oversight.
That said, the youtube video this article is talking about is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
I would have buried this as blogspam with a value-free article pointing to another site where you have to search for the video that is hosted on youtube, but this H1 subject really irks me. - chuckd, on 10/11/2007, -0/+20I can actually vouch for this a little bit. I recall the HR from my former employer having to post up some ridiculously varied set of requirements (MCSE, Linux, photographer, web graphics etc) in a job listing (intranet, online, papers) with no intention of actually hiring anyone new. They were just trying to keep an existing employee after his working permit expired. The skill requirements were practically lifted off of his resume.
- Tarnum, on 10/11/2007, -0/+20"MCSA with perfect Estonian and working knowledge of Kurdish"
- obliviousfool, on 10/11/2007, -1/+16http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17909.htm
Direct link. - diggsIt, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15Congress needs to watch this video. Those pricks on the panel should be invited to testify before the appropriate congressional committee.
- tokyoturnip, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13I have always said. "If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys". No racial slurs intended.
Personally I would have been more interested in who was sitting on the front side of the podium, so I know what products I should stop supporting and pray they go belly-up. - DMU789, on 10/11/2007, -3/+16This just makes me sick. Just one more thing to add on why I can be oh so proud to be an American. I understand needing to get the most bang for your buck but just be honest about it. Why do they have to go through all these hoops, get people hopeful for employment when they have no intention of hiring any us citizen.
Just come out and say hey we only care about the bottom line, we are a short sided company, and dont care how this effects the economy that the company is based in. In the long run its this kind of thinking will run the areas most of these companies are based from. But hey you saved a couple bucks now though. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+14Junior programmer position: Must have 8+ years of C; 2+ years of Java and Websphere; 4+ years of Unix; 4+ years Windows; must have BSCE, or better; Salary in the mid 30s.
Network Support Analyst: 4 year degree; Lotus Notes client; Windows 2000 & XP client environment; Windows 2000 server operations;Windows WSUS server;McAfee ePO Server; Citrix Presentation Server 3.0;Back-up Exec 10;Windows 2003 Server operations;Symantec Ghost for imaging PC's;Good working knowledge of TCP/IP networking;Siebel CRM client - a plus;Saratoga iAvenue client - a plus;Good communication, especially phone assistance; pay in the low 30s
Helpdesk support analyst: degree; 2+ years desk side support; 2+ years telephone support; familiarity with MS products; 5+ years Windows server; 2+ years MS Exchange; 2+ years Active Directory;IIS. Pluses:VB.Net, .ASP; Pay 30K - loboforestal, on 10/11/2007, -0/+11Senate starts voting soon, probably today on "Immigration" bill. It's more like an "immigration expansion" bill. It provides for large expansion in guest workers in many categories, including H-1B. H-1B may ratchet up to provide 3 million new guest workers. Guest worker programs are subsidies to whichever industry can get them. Contact your Senator and urge him to protect American wages. It is all about the wages: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back504.html
• By increasing the supply of labor between 1980 and 2000, immigration reduced the average annual earnings of native-born men by an estimated $1,700 or roughly 4 percent.
• Among natives without a high school education, who roughly correspond to the poorest tenth of the workforce, the estimated impact was even larger, reducing their wages by 7.4 percent.
• The 10 million native-born workers without a high school degree face the most competition from immigrants, as do the eight million younger natives with only a high school education and 12 million younger college graduates.
• The negative effect on native-born black and Hispanic workers is significantly larger than on whites because a much larger share of minorities are in direct competition with immigrants.
Most folks want a smaller, citizenship oriented bill. This is NOT that bill. It's a guest worker expansion bill. - Zippo, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12Ugh, this is why I hate large corporations... all they care about is making more and more profit. ***** your fellow Americans, and ***** the national economy, if you can hire some Mexican or Indian and pay them a much, much lower wage, you're doing good business. This is why the poor are getting poorer, the middle class is shrinking, and the rich are getting richer. Canadian companies do some outsourcing, but not nearly as much. Hell, chances are, you're talking to Canadians to when you call Comcast or GE customer service.
- ronygenius, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9this is a very well known fact ... this is exactly how international student get the H1 visa in american and then become citizens. i know this because i was an international student. this works very well with SAP consultanting companies. they hire international students from colleges, train them in the SAP/ERP software. then they put an advertisement in the paper as they have to prove that this international student has skills that no american has. once hired they they work for companies like IBM AT&T. the companies pay the comsulting company at the rate that starts at $100/hr. the consulting company then pays the newly trained consultant at 30$/ hr. thus net profit is a lot ! ! there are a lot of such companies in NEW jersey
- dsnicol, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Several years ago I worked at a 3rd party agency that placed recruitment ads for employers. Occasionally we would place "dummy" ads for employers for positions that had been filled internally so the employer could meet their EEOC requirement. I've not heard of deliberately discouraging US applicants in the advertising process or funneling applicants out in the resume review. I would like to see a "fake ad" as well. My guess is that the video was taken at the 2006 PHRA conference, although the podium says "Hilton," not "Westin." http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:2hxeKswEvooJ:www.pittsburghhra.org/49.php%3FPHPSESSID%3D65fd5a24edc8c962abb9fdef83fff9f8+SHRM+Cohen+%26+Grigsby&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us&client=firefox-a
- brombie, on 10/11/2007, -8/+17Knee jerk reaction is to blame the lawyers and companies for this, but stop and think what you'd do if you're in their shoes. 99.9% you'd do the same. Here's why:
Green card process takes anywhere between 3 to 5 years. It's long, it's costly, and it's not something you want to do for fun. Usually, a company won't sponsor just anyone, hence the numerous amount of H1-B visa holders who work as lower echelon contractors and have little chance of getting sponsored for a green card. So say this is your company, one of your valuable employees is not a green card holder and he has worked there for 4 years proving his worth. Now, the system forces you to advertise his job and replaces him if you can find a qualified citizen. It can be argued that at this point, this person is irreplaceable. Beyond the skill factor, there's the experience, familiarity, and rapport that this person have accumulated during his tenure. Also, try to explain that to your other employees. Yeah, he quit because we won't sponsor his green card, but hey, meet Bob, who MIGHT be able to replace him, oh and I want you to train him and NO, you don't get to use it as an excuse to change your project date. In short, this law is retarded since it leaves everybody with no options but to break it.
The system is broken, but this is a red herring. People who gets their green card through employment are mostly competent, skilled, and a tax payer. - member57, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Do business in America, hire Americans. Good PR IMHO. I'm already working for less, my ***** education costs four times as much as a "foreign" worker. So STFU.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8You mean postings like this?
June 25, 2007
Dear ******:
Subject: Ref# KF 06251/System Administrator - Windows / Zenworks Deployment Expert/Madison Ave , NYC
We are pleased to bring to your kind attention the opening that you may wish to consider. Please find the details of the position below this message.
Should this position interest you, we would highly appreciate to hear back with a latest copy of your resume in Word format.
Feel free to pass this notification to any one else you know may be interested.
Thanks in advance for your time and looking forward to working with you.
Best regards,
Hari Kumar
Resource Specialist
DataSoft Inc
Ph: (678) 267-3728
(678) 777-2356 (Cell)
=====================POSITION DETAILS ===================
Ref# KF06251
Title : System Administrator - Windows / Zenworks Deployment Expert
Location : Madison Ave , NYC - Local candidate only
Duration : 6 months +- going till the end of this year right now. Highly likely going into 2008.
Job Description
Analyzes and evaluates major system project requirements of considerable complexity requiring a thorough understanding of all parameters affecting and interfacing with the system. Reviews user requirements and provides direction in the identification of problem and potential resolution. Defines system objectives and prepares system design specifications to meet user and system requirements. Formulates logical statements of user requirements and develops solutions through application of systems and methods of engineering techniques. Reviews alternate approaches and selects appropriate methodology. Recommends corrections in technical applications and analysis. Applies advanced technical principles, theories, and concepts. Contributes to the development of new principles and concepts. Works under consultative direction toward predetermined long-range goals and objectives. Determines and pursues courses of action necessary to obtain desired results. Work checked through consultation and agreement with others rather than by formal review of superior. May provide work leadership for lower level employees. Considered expert in field. Excludes those with full supervisory responsibility.
Skill Set Requirements
Operating Systems:
Windows 2003 Advanced, Windows XP Professional, Web and Enterprise Server (including Cluster servers), Windows 2000 Advanced, Active Directory, NT, Terminal Server, VMWare, Windows 95/98/NT/2K/XP/Vista desktop, Linux
Protocols and Services:
Active Directory, DNS, DHCP, FTP, HTML, IIS, IMAP, LDAP, NNTP, POP3, RIS, SMTP, SNMP, TCP/IP, WINS
Software and Utilities:
Windows XP, Windows Server, Active Directory, IBM Director, Novell, Blackberry Support, Veritas Backup Exec., ZENWorks 6.5 – 7.0 (Software deployment Application), Ghost, Tivoli, MS Office, Citrix MetaFrame, Remote Access Support, Terminal Services, Nortel VPN, Wireless networking, McAfee, Patchlink
Programming :
MS Visual Basic 6.0/ Visual Basic. NET, ASP.NET, ADO.NET, HTML, MS Visual J++ 6.0, C, C++, Crystal Report
Hardware :
HP / Compaq Proliant DL and ML Series, IBM Servers, Dell Servers, IBM / DELL Laptops, Printers (IBM, HP), Scanner, NIC, Modem (Internal, External, PCMCIA), SCSI, RAID 0/1/5, Cable Cat 5, Cisco Routers, Switches, Hubs, WI-FI Network, Linksys Networks, Netgear Networks,D-Links Networks, SOHO, ISDN/ T1 Lines, DSL
Proficiency Requirements
Proficient in the Software packaging lifecycle, including installation and configuration, testing, customization via msi and mst modifications.
Advanced expertise with packaging utilities such as Wise Installer, Install Shield or Flexnet Admin Studio (Zenworks Edition)
Advanced knowledge of Windows 2k and XP Desktop imaging specifically in the area of creating a single image for multiple hardware types.
ZenWorks imaging, proficient in the delivery of desktop images via PXE and/or Boot CD
Experience with ZenWorks policies
Detailed experience with Complex customized deployments such as MS Office, Adobe, SAP client, Oracle client, Novell Client, Internet Explorer, Java, Zen Agent, Patchlink Agent and McAfee in a 5000 user+ enterprise environment.
Expert level experience with the Development and Deployment of ZenWorks Application Objects (NALs) following Best Practice Standards as recommended by Novell
Must have at least 2 - 4 years experience with ZenWorks version 6.5 or newer
ZEN Desktop Management integrations with Zen Server management, a huge plus
Experience with Windows Server builds 2k and 2k03.
Ability to meticulously QA products/process across multiple platforms and document
Excellent troubleshooting skills regarding all aspects of ZenWorks functionality on the Desktop
Ability to analyze failure/success of deployments and provide reports
Certifications
Windows 2003 Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE)
Windows 2003 Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator (MCSA)
Microsoft Certified Professional (MCP)
MCSE: Windows 2000
MCSA: Windows 2000
Certified NetWare Engineer (CNE) - cozmoz365, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8I bet the guys holding that conference would be pissed if they all got replaced...
- adamruth, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10"Why do they have to go through all these hoops..."
Because of stupid laws. The would just come out and say it, if they could without being sued out of business. Don't be ashamed to be an American, be ashamed of our pathetic government. - loboforestal, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Good question. Why? Because these jobs are in the most expensive towns in the US where average house is $900K. $80K/year will get you a nice apartment but not a house. Why? Because that kind of jingle is only for people younger than 35 and have 5 years of experience. You have about 10 years to save all the money you're going to make as a front line worker in this industry. Why? Because sending the signal that you pay high wages will encourage more people to enter or retrain for the industry. Why? Because these companies are very wealthy and can afford it. Why? Because that's the market rate.
- scubajim, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Congress doesn't care. They accept huge political donations from foreign companies. They are bought and paid for.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7You need go get your head out of your ass. The people that have exaggerated salaries are the executives and managers. Listening to a man who makes US$12 Million whine about how he can't fill a position because he refuses to pay the going wage does not have me believing he should be able to import labor that will work for less.
- Ellsass, on 11/05/2008, -0/+7I've experienced a lot of legitimate-looking ads (not ones with ridiculous expectations) that ended up being for positions that apparently aren't open. I'd even get interviewed, then a few days later I'd get the standard "we've chosen someone who better fits us blah blah" email. The next week, the exact same ad is in the paper. It keeps getting printed for months. Even if I really wasn't good enough for the job, they still haven't found someone and haven't change the requirements or salary to reflect that, so I think the ad is false (or they're just fishing for resumés). I've gone on to land unadvertised jobs elsewhere with the same resumé.
- billykiddo, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12I haven't looked in the newspaper for jobs for years.
- member57, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6AMEN! This sounds like a job ad where I live.... You need to add in, "cleans the bathrooms at night" though...
- scubasteve377, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6How the ***** could this be good for the economy? Consider that the cost of living has gone way up, inflation has gone way up, and most middleclass families have both parents working full time, many at more than one job. A decent ***** salary, so you can feed your ***** children without becoming a burden on the state, is not so much to ask from these fortune 500 companies now is it. Especially if you spent all of your money getting an education and becoming well qualified for the job.
Making people work their same jobs for less money, without lowering their cost of living, is not "good for the economy" it only makes more poor people. Families living in poverty and high unemployment rates are not staples of a strong economy, you ***** douchebag. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Me neither. Wouldn't resort to that unless I were moving to a different city, and even then I would try to establish some connections in that city before considering a move.
It's all who you know. Most jobs never end up in the newspaper. Pretty much the only ones that do are listed because no one internally wanted the job, and didnt know anyone to recommend the job to. - indorock, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6This is nothing new. The web agency i worked for until 2005 (incidentally Canadian, not American) practiced this regularly, though not necessarily to enable the hiring or cheaper resources, but to allow their Canadian employees to obtain a working visa for the Netherlands, so they would be able to relocate to the Amsterdam office. I once even applied for one of their fake ads, since it seemed to be a step up from the position i had. But HR informed me immediately of this fake job ad tactic.
- KibibyteBrain, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6The problem is, all Americans start out of school with limited work experience. Microsoft and friends are importing workers with greater skillsets without ever giving some young americans a first shot to prove their skills, because it IS a safer bet. After all, a young kid could be the best of the best, but he still can't have a good resume until he works his first job.
This is not fair when Microsoft and friends also do business in the US and use US taxpayer services. Education is one of the responsibilities of a society, and all memeber, even corporations, have a natural obligation to raise the next generation. Society in the US would break down pretty quickly if we didn't take the time to train unskilled native workers. - frobozz0, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6I am not surprised by this at all. It's common. If this is shocking news to you, you don't know any legal aliens in the tech sector. :-)
The way this summary is worded, it makes the situation sound like a bunch of uneducated, underpaid foreign workers are stealing jobs from otherwise qualified nationals. This really isn't the case. In my experience, I've seen a lot of dedicated, hard working individuals of foreign descent who have been working in the US for *decades* ... only to be threatened with deportation for a year or more if they can not renew. These people are your friends. You might not even know if they're Canadian. Seriously. This is not a big deal in my eyes. And, in my experience, these are highly paid computer programmers. And the best part is that this is NOT illegal to post the ads there. It's what is required by law. - brufleth, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5And often impossible to get.
I never got an internship/co-op position in college. I wasn't alone. Despite the fact that I was getting a degree in electrical engineering and was getting excellent grades I was NEVER able to get so much as an interview via my own applications or through the career development office (aka that office that wastes your time and does nothing). Finally in my last year I wised up, worked as a teaching assistant to a professor adjunct and managed to get my foot in the door (albeit requiring a move across the country) at a good company.
You either get lucky or you need to know someone. If you got lucky then awesome. I'm happy for you. Lots of us weren't handed a career while we were still in college though. - member57, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5No better yet is the MCSE, CNE, J2EE, HTML, DBA, Help Desk, Network Admin., and CS graduate for 30K ad I saw recently.....
- zeebo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5The way you get senior UNIX people is by hiring Junior people and getting them experience. The problem right now is that all companies want Senior UNIX admins, and have no low-level unix positions at all much of the time, which means no new Senior Admins are being created.
- bigtallmofo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5@BrokenBokken,
They have plenty of examples of fake ads. If you watched to the end of the video you would have seen a website listed at:
www.programmersguild.org/rir
They have scans of the actual ads in the newspaper. - SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5WANTED: Networking Stooge
5 to 10 years experience. 1/2 the going salary.
12 hour days. No OT. - mattsidesinger, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5I have been doing this since the dot com bust.
- HillerMylife, on 07/24/2008, -0/+4But nepotism isn't illegal, and distasteful as it may be, shouldn't they be allowed to hire whomever they like?
- brufleth, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4All about who you know.
Do people get jobs any other way? - ripcrd, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5This law is why there are still newspaper classified ads. As was said above, most tech workers in the US do not look at the newspaper for jobs anymore.
- SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Time for a new line of work. It's been 6 years.
Of course DotComBst 2.0 is coming soon! - meatmcguffin, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5I know a massive multi-national mulit-million company who wanted to indulge in a bit of neoptism so they set up an interview with the family member and then advertised on two lines in the smallest local paper they could find. Apparently, perfectly legal :/
- merreborn, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4"They were just trying to keep an existing employee after his working permit expired"
You say that like it's a bad thing. If you were overseas working for someone, and had a good relationship with your employer, and it'd take your employer months or even years to train a replacement...
... You'd want your employer to do whatever it takes to keep you around, right? - lwstagg, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Your ideology is to be commended, but that attitude will change when you have a family and mortgage.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"There is nothing wrong with getting H1 workers as it stands. It's cheaper for companies, but often their quality lacks (sometimes it doesn't). As long as you're a superior potential employee you will be selected and that's that."
Apparently you have not been out in the real world. Companies are willing to trade quality for lower pay because the executives then take the money saved and give it to themselves as bonuses. Why else would one hear executives who make millions of dollars a year whine that they can't find anyone to work for the artificially low wages they offer.
"To limit the amount of H1's is like adding a tariff to protect US employees from not being hired and is just as stupid and economically damaging as an actual tariff."
H1-B visas actually hurt the U.S. economy because a large portion of the money they make goes back to whatever country they came from. That causes the U.S. economy to shrink.
You are a dumb-ass. - scubasteve377, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3I wonder if there is a single thread on digg where someone doesn't bring up 9/11?
- SpaceMonkeyZero, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Foreigners apparently.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3a multi-nation, Mulit-Million company? jeez thats one right outta the 80's there
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Here is a novel idea. Cut executive and manager salaries and pay the American workers what they are worth. Or do you believe that 50% of a companies payroll should go to a handful of people who sit around and make bad decisions?
H1-B is not a means to getting a green card. So boo-*****-hoo for your buddy, let him get if ***** line like the rest of the world.
The system is broken. It allows companies to bring in workers from other countries who will work longer hours for less money, then the company changes the persons job title, changing the "going rate" for that job title and whines to Congress "We can't find anyone to work for the stupidly, artificially low salary we are offering so you need to let us bring in more cheap workers". Meanwhile, qualified Americans can't get jobs that pay enough to pay all their bills because they have to pay for their school loans, houses/apartments, food, taxes, clothing, and everything else that comes with being American.
You sound like an H1-Ber. What country are you from? -
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