What is Digg?126 Comments
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+73Make sure to watch to the end. To me, it represents conclusive evidence of vote fraud on Diebold machines in Florida 2000.
For any programmers in the room, feel free to challenge this. But if they insert a hacked card into an unadulterated machine, and that machine says the card is zeroed when it's clearly not, and the votes are counted, and the result is a thrown election, it can only be fraud, IMO.
Here's why. The machine must have read and then written back to the memory card. So either the machine reads the card at the outset, setting up wrong initial states and the machine then LIES about this, or the machine counts from zero and then adds the card's read values to its legitimate totals, which would also constitute fraud IMO since the cards are always supposed to be zero. The zero test is there to prove it each time the machine is used.
If it is a bug, I can see no way such a machine could get through testing without detecting it. If you're writing code that tests the zero state, you have to test with something other than a zero state or it's as if you never tested.
Now, admittedly the fraud could be _product_ fraud, whereby the "zero test" shows zero no matter what it's given (and that would be intentional). But that's still fraud, for certified election machines. But I have a hard time believing anyone could make that series of mistakes AND someone in Florida would guess the bug and exploit it, to the tune of -16000 votes for Mr. Gore.
The -16000, btw, shows that the crooks messed up at least once. It would happen if they stoke 16k more votes than he got. No one could tell how many they stole without knowing how many he got. The totals for all candidates would always add up to the correct amount. It's very clever. Too clever to be a bug, IMO. - inactive, on 10/13/2007, -4/+51Diebold are lying *****, they should be tried for treason.
- kettlechips, on 10/12/2007, -3/+45"America: the worlds greatest democracy"
Marked as inaccurate. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+39Torrent:
http://www.meganova.org/details/343056.html - lilmoonee, on 10/12/2007, -0/+36the sad thing is the GEMS database was modified with microsoft access and the procedure to hack GEMS is easily found on the internet. any idiot could throw off a county's whole election. we need an open source solution and a paper trail.
- gardnert1, on 10/12/2007, -10/+45haha! when i posted this google video link on the last post about hacking democracy i got dugg down 8 times! Now its front page news, AMAZING!
- Stonedonkey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+35Did anyone else notice that the icon for "GEMS.exe" is a hand closing around the world?
- everfalling, on 10/12/2007, -1/+30because diebold machines are shiney! OOH! TOUCH SCREEN! NEW MUST MEAN ACCURATE!
- everfalling, on 10/12/2007, -2/+26this is an awsome documentery. scary ***** to find out hanging chads was the least of our worries.
- everfalling, on 10/12/2007, -2/+25umm.. what are you talking about?
machine more accurate than paper? did you even watch this? a machine ended up giving out a negative number at one point, and not through hacking, just error. another instance shows that when you pressed one name, it came out the one next to it on 15 seperate machines.
Yeah checking ID's is an issue, but i think the process that counts the actual votes ***** up is a far greater problem. what does it matter if a felon votes if it turns out the entire count is skewed one way or another? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Guys, I am not American -but to you guys over there.. I am really sorry about this! It just makes me sad. You have to do something about this!! -A Swede
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+21Wow.
Thanks to Google and HBO for making this documentary available. Thanks to the original poster for letting us know about it.
Having this documentary easily available for free viewing, and having it advertised on digg was a public service - speel, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22I'm so glad this was posted on digg. Because honestly my jaw dropped when I seen that they threw away the papers that stated the votes ( i forgot what it was called ). And to know that the ***** in Florida did that, thats simply mind boggling. This country needs a new system on voting and totally different party's. Because if we keep on following this path we're going to be the next great civilization to fall due to corruption.
- BrokenImage, on 10/12/2007, -0/+20I laughed at the point where Howard Dean is being shown the program GEMS, and you can see BearShare under the Start Menu at exactly 32:20 in this movie.
Hopefully nobody from the RIAA saw this. - xedeon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19WOW it uses MS Access Database?!? and has NO Encryption whatsoever? this is sad and mind boggling that software should be super secure from the moment the voters enter their votes to the moment they are calculated...
- sarge96, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20I think i read some where it took a Princeton researcher 1 minute to hack a Diebold machine....
- fgsfds, on 10/13/2007, -1/+18@bse5150: Perhaps you've lived under a rock for the past decade and missed it, but there have been objections to these machines since before places started using them.
Many Diebold machines leave no paper trail, and so if a corrupt politician (Say, Hillary Clinton) decided to rig an election, there would be no evidence to support claims of tampering. Even in districts which used the scanner-type machines, the ballots can and have been easily "accidentally disposed of".
Be ever vigilant of vote tampering, for it's a double-edged sword. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Everything else aside, Diebold received money from the Republican party, its in their accounts, end of discussion. If a member of a jury is found to have taken a big briefcase of money from the defendant, ITS OVER, the jury member must be thrown out, there's no if's or but's.
Why the ***** is this pigs-***** of a company building mother ***** voting machines? - deesnutz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15I saw the video from start to end. It really makes you think, when the CEO of Diebold sends out a memo saying that he can deliver Ohio to Bush (which meant the entire election). And that by hacking the memory cards could in effect do such a thing without the knowledge of anyone. This is quite troubling.
And yet, with all this evidence not a single person is being held accountable. There is, in my mind, a cover up.
I mean you really have to think about it. A CEO of a corporation sending out a memo making such a claim, and later trying to down play it. Just doesn't wash with me. Any CEO knows that he's accountable for not only what he says publicly but what he writes in memos. And especially, publicly traded companies such as Diebold.
Then to see that the CEO could actually live up to his word via hacked cards. What more do you need for proof? - FunkyWitDaSysTm, on 10/13/2007, -2/+17@bse5150
you are obviously an idiot.
secondly, in response to "Diebold are lying *****, they should be tried for treason":
treason? that's nice, but how about we start with election fraud? one criminal count for each vote "counted" in every county/parrish that uses their machines. that'd be nice. - dognose, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17Well, when the dems win this election, you can be sure this whole hacking thing will be big news.
I'll be using paper ballets this year as my area moves to all electronic voting. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Well it looks like a spoke too soon, there is a project underway
openvoting.org
Their program will run on any standard pc using linux, prints verification off of a standard printer, provides multlingual support as well as support for the visually impaired, and will be liscenced under the GPL
and for all you coders out there, yes it's on sourceforge:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/evm2003 - omnithought, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I saw this on HBO a few days ago. Really a must see! Democracy is screwed as long as these machines are in use.
- jguy584, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Why cant they just use the old punch card method?
I would rather be dealing with chads then this - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13Yea that is true. He picked the lock for the memory hard inserted is own one with malicious code and said "kthxbye"
- 83457, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15You must not have understood the test. Also, it wasn't supposed to be a scientific test--just a demonstration after Diebold said the cards couldn't be hacked.
Vote software should be open source. Security through obscurity just isn't good policy and the current vendors can't produce a secure product. - EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16It's worse than that. They showed that you could insert a memory card into the vote counting machine (not the voting machines) that was pre-set with fake votes and the counting machine would essentially add those votes into its final count. There'd be no way to ever know, because the results are stored on the same memory cards. The trick was to take away as many votes as they added so the totals matched the number of ballots.
That's the most likely explanation for Al Gore's negative 16000 votes. The crooks got greedy and stole 16000 more votes than Gore actually got (which we can now never know). - ArcticCelt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Even better, why not simply use hand counted paper ballots. That's what we use in Canada and for having worked as an election official many times I can assure you that its safe and practical. Also as a programmer I am the last person to trust a computer.
Scalability: You have more citizens? Add more voting pools. What you pay in employees you saved it not paying Diebold.
Safe: 2-5 people oversee each vote when they are counted and you don't need to be an engineer to certify what's going on.
Fast: It takes just a couple of hours to count the whole country.
Fair: Everybody all around the country use the same kind of ballot and exactly the same process is used in all voting places to count the votes. - Rickler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Hopefully HBO doesn't try to take this down. As a guy who forks out $10 a month for HBO this only keeps me paying.
- Mardala, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13http://www.fec.gov/hava/hava.htm
Its a monopolized industry with lobbying power to boot. I personally think the voting machines should be controlled from a non-partisan agency and the source code open sourced.
Miami had early voters who are complaining the results pages of their votes are not accurate at all: http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/broward_county/15869924.htm - Lixie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12To those saying the Zero count was messed up:
The Zero count was accurate, the hacker explained that he didn't have votes pre-made on the card. Rather there was executable file on the memory that allowed him to tell the memory card to swing an equal number of votes from one option to the other, so as to make the final vote count accurate to the number of votes cast (though not accurate to the type of votes cast)
The Zero count was accurate and was not the result of hacking, nor the result of hiding votes. There were no votes on the card prior, rather a program designed to skew how votes were registered while keeping overall total vote count accurate to the actual amount of votes.
In short, his hack didn't create votes; it changed votes. - neura, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Well, a couple facts for those who didn't watch the movie (bse5150).
The first example in the movie is a republican on tape testing diebold machines and getting inaccurate votes. This is pre-election, not even uncalibrated because of "heavy use". By the way, what voting machine isn't going to see heavy use?
More than once during the video, it's stated that in some areas republicans are complaining about these systems where democrats are promoting them.
Just because the issue that has extreme visibility is the presidential vote doesn't mean that's what this is all about. This is about ALL votes, for ALL parties.
When it comes down to partisanship though, I'm betting that if enough democrats get in, you'll see some radical changes to our voting systems. Requirements for open documentation of voting system internals, storage methods, security measures, etc. - everfalling, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11if this specific video goes down, try these other two:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8367786376074634512&q=hacking+democracy
and
http://video.google.com/ThumbnailServer2?app=vss&contentid=c572e13852e756fe&offsetms=5000&itag=w160&lang=en&sigh=lQiyXKx1yjBDfbf8khB6ISFWI08 - EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12The the Fox news segment blame the thing on Clinton? Just curious.
- texasmojo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12This is so simple to fix. One almost has to believe in conspiracy theories to come up with a reason that Diebold and Co. refuse to fix this.
Just print out a paper receipt showing your votes. Tie a unique id to each vote and print out a bar code on each receipt. You drop the receipt in a box on the way out and poof! You have a verifiable paper trail in case there's any questions about a particular machine.
I haven't watched it yet, but from what I've read other places, they freakin' use Microsoft Access as the database system. Access is nice for people saving recipes or genning up their Christmas card list, but for something as sensitive as this? Its insane. - everynewday, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12This is an excellent documentary. It is apparent that Diebold is concerned about thier financial wellbeing, not the integrity of the American votes. This should disgust everyone who watches it.
- Blarbo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10You watch fox news?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9I agree. We need an open source voting initiative. Keep the hardware as standardized and generic as possible, use entirely open source software, and leave a paper trail or some means of verification.
As far as software i would really like it to be built from the ground up, but understandably that would require far more work; thus I would say use OpenBSD preferably. If that would also require too much effort then i would say base it on Debian as a fallback (wouldn't that be neato: `apt-get install votesys` or something..)
For the hardware something ARM based would be fairly generic, and cheap. x86 would be a sort of fallback i suppose (maybe a soekris board or a via epia?), although really if it was open source you should be able to put it onto anything. - d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@wintermd -- Do you care about our Democracy at all? Are you only able to look through partisan lenses? WTF is wrong with people?
- grzelakc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Watch the whole thing. The -16000 votes mystery is explained. If you're American you'll want to puke after watching this documentary. It is that disturbing.
- AZTriGuy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13I, for one, welcome our new Democracy Hacking overlords...
Actually, I don't, come to think of it. We already have old Democracy Hacking overlords don't we? Let's make it a good Tuesday. - voteforblank, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10THIS SHOULD BE A STICKY ON DIGG!
- kettlechips, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Gerrymandering is the real flaw in the system, regardless of machines.
- eclectro, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12There was never a problem with the punch hole ballots. What there was was a PROBLEM WITH THE MACHINES NOT BEING MAINTAINED.
- samcrut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8The video isn't a pirate posting. It's being posted by the production company who produced the video. It's not going anywhere. They want this one to see as many eyeballs as possible! This content is more important than worrying about pay cable subscriptions.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Dude, you're an idiot. Electronic or paper ballot has nothing to do with the wrong person voting. It's about the machine lying about the votes input.
- senorBojangles, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9Diebold must be stopped by whatever means necessary.
- YankInOz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8A paraphrased Thomas Jefferson quote comes to mind:
"There must needs be a revolution in every generation or else the despots will return and our republic will be lost."
Our Republic has been lost for at least three generations. Now the excuse is safety from the enemy without - when the enemy is really within. Be prepared for the Republicans to stay in power - no matter what. And for martial law to be imposed by mid-March.
All the bills have been passed to suspend Congress (in times of crisis and national emergency) since FDR. They will be implemented.
This is not a test - this is the real thing. Either you are a Patriot and support the Constitution or you support Fascism and the despotic dictatorial rule that it creates. This isn't about whether you are a Democrat or Republican - this is about whether you want to regain your inalienable rights as a human being and as an American citizen.
You always have a choice - are you willing to step up or when you get done with this blog will you just go to the next tech blog or item and in seven seconds have completely forgotten about what it really means to be an American and why for so long, so many people would give their eye tooth to just come to America.
Now, we are one of the most dispised countries in the world. Well done.
If you REALLY care - get offf of your ass and do something - beyond think about how terrible this is. - xedeon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Your right she is NO expert and She also NEVER said nor implied that she is, she got help from a John Hopkins University Computer Engineer. Also I am a developer and I know what I am talking about, they could have developed a custom database! it's not that hard to implement and add an RSA/AES encryption layer and then used the encryption keys on the computer that tabulates the memory cards, you have to remember how sensitive the information being processed here and to why they used off-the shelf software for something as important as this baffles me..
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8The thing about that Miami story is that when it says "the result pages didn't match the choices a person made," that proves it's not a calibration error with the screens. I don't know who made up that horse *****, but if it was a calibration error, touching one candidate would clearly check-box or light up the wrong name on the voting screen. If it changes on the result screen, it's a software bug at the very least.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 126 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is