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- BBE1965, on 05/18/2009, -8/+177This was written by firedoglake empty wheel's Marcy Wheeler who has been dogged in her research and attention to detail on torture.
1. Dick Cheney, vice president (2001-2009)
2. David Addington, counsel to the vice president (2001-2005), chief of staff to the vice president (2005-2009)
3. Alberto Gonzales, White House counsel (2001-2005), and attorney general (2005-2008)
4. James Mitchell, consultant
5. George Tenet, director of Central Intelligence (1997-2004)
6. Condoleezza Rice, national security advisor (2001-2005), secretary of state (2005-2008)
7. John Yoo, deputy assistant attorney general, Office of Legal Counsel (2001-2003)
8. Jay Bybee, assistant attorney general, Office of Legal Counsel (2001-2003)
9. William "Jim" Haynes, Defense Department general counsel (2001-2008)
10. Donald Rumsfeld, secretary of defense (2001-2006)
11. John Rizzo, CIA deputy general counsel (2002-2004), acting general counsel of the Central Intelligence Agency (2001-2002, 2004-present)
12. Steven Bradbury, principal deputy assistant attorney general, OLC (2004), acting assistant attorney general, OLC (2005-2009)
13. George W. Bush, president (2001-2009) - sheasie, on 05/18/2009, -11/+155"This government does not torture people. We stick to U.S. law and our international obligations," - Bush.
/fail - DirtyVicar, on 05/18/2009, -5/+103Let's not forget the 62,028,285 people that not only helped put those 13 individuals in charge but re-elected the administration willingly.
- TAwtry, on 05/18/2009, -10/+103A extremely well authored article that’s complete and concise in all aspects of “torture” in regards to the Bush Administration.
- Intervene, on 05/18/2009, -1/+65"I hear the voices, and I read the front page, and I know the speculation. But I'm the decider, and I decide what is best. And what's best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain as the secretary of defense." - George W. Bush
- aimhelix, on 05/18/2009, -6/+66Jail them already.
- WhaneTheWhip, on 05/18/2009, -3/+58Torture is made possible by all those that accept it without protest.
- inactive, on 05/18/2009, -8/+53Now remind me wasn't the fact that Saddam Hussein was using torture to stay in power one of the reasons Bush gave to justify the war with Iraq? Twins of different mothers?
- babar77, on 05/18/2009, -2/+39Like who? Yes I do believe that if Pelosi knew about it she had a duty to report it, and should be at least impeached and at most jailed.
But you are distracting from the main point of this article. If these 13 people didn't specifically design torture into policy, we wouldn't have it. Even if Pelosi stepped up and blew the whistle, America would still be a country that institutionalized torture because it happened before any documented evidence of congressional briefs. Did you not read the section on Cheney, Addington, and Bush? They completely subscribed to the outrageous theory of total authority of the executive and that congress should be treated like mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed *****.
By our own standards we set in Nuremberg after WWII, these officials should be tried, convicted, and executed for war crimes. Any thing less makes us hypocrites and unable to live up to the standards we've imposed on others. - babar77, on 05/18/2009, -1/+38No.. beheading is murder. idiot.
- Lomstradamus, on 05/18/2009, -7/+42They didnt' continue using it on the soldiers in training after they were uncomfortable. They only give them a "taste" of what its like.
Its torture, just ask Jesse Ventura. - KazamaSmokers, on 05/18/2009, -14/+45You need to add Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly etc to the list. They didn't directly enable it, but they made it palatable to the public.
- inactive, on 05/18/2009, -5/+36
"Waterboarding is torture, period. I can ensure you that once enough physical pain is inflicted on someone, they will tell that interrogator whatever they think they want to hear. And most importantly, it serves as a great propaganda tool for those who recruit people to fight against us." -- John McCain (R), Vietnam War POW, April 20, 2009.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/20/mccain-ksm-183 ... - manosinistra, on 05/18/2009, -4/+34If you "train" yourself to withstand physical pain and duress, it remains a voluntary action within the larger frame of professional choices freely made. As such one cannot define this torture, but the very same actions applied to a human being against his or her will definitely are...
For example, you can belong to some SM group enjoying symbolic crucifixion and having hot wax poured over their genitals, that's your choice and you can opt out whenever you feel like it.
But what if you get arrested and the very same things are done to you against your will? Would you define them "pleasurable"? - Hetman, on 05/18/2009, -3/+30I agree with you. But to be fair the administration did say over and over that they were not torturing people. Anyways I kind of blame journalists. I mean how come they were unable to expose this?
- inactive, on 05/18/2009, -13/+39While I am not a fan of Pelosi, and I think that anyone who did not do their job in attacking the Bush administration has some fault in this mess, to put her in that list is merely a distraction from the right. Attack to Distract! That has always been their game plan.
- novenator, on 05/18/2009, -8/+33Look at all of the Republican torture apologists try to offer up Pelosi instead! LOL, like she was running the administration that condoned, crafted, and pushed torture. I guess we had President Pelosi at the helm during the last 8 years accd to wingnut mythology now.
- Rudegar, on 05/18/2009, -2/+25""just following orders". The term "Nuremberg Defense" was originally coined during the Nazi war crimes trials at Nuremberg"
nuff said - MistySteele, on 05/18/2009, -0/+23Anybody have a good explanation why the only place to get good investigative journalism these days is from Salon, Rolling Stone, and GQ magazine, and the only place for insightful interviews is Comedy Central?
The more important question, I guess, is "is there any way to improve this?" - youliveinfear, on 05/18/2009, -7/+30so she authorized it? no? Decided how to implement it? Not quite. Perhaps she drafted the legal justifications for it? Nope.
She wasn't involved in making it normal US policy. No, she carries the sin of being a democrat and allegedly being made aware that it was going on. Of course, that's more important to you because she has a (D) next to her name.
It's telling that you did you not mention any of the ranking republicans in Congress who also allegedly knew that it was going on. - danieldantastic, on 05/18/2009, -4/+26I can draft a legal opinion that I should be able to break into your house and steal your TV, but that makes it far from legal, ethical or moral.
- drmobutu, on 05/18/2009, -4/+26And Keifer Sutherland, too...
- INDOAZZ, on 05/18/2009, -14/+3513 MONSTERS!
- RatatRatR, on 05/18/2009, -2/+22That's because it's an article about the people who "authorized it, decided how to implement it, and crafted the legal fig leaf to justify it."
- dreamtiger, on 05/18/2009, -0/+20It was exposed over and over. Very few were listening.
- biotch, on 05/18/2009, -2/+20"waterboarding torture?Come-on!!Thats nothing more than splashing cold water in their face"
Shallow words from someone who can hide behind the internet and avoid living up to that claim - kanojo1969, on 05/18/2009, -3/+20as always, the nutjobs cannot see past their own deranged points-scoring system, whereby they can exonerate all guilty republicans by finding an equal number of guilty democrats.
it doesn't work like that, it doesn't matter if we find out that the entire democratic party were personally emailed by cheney with diagrams laying out all the torture details months in advance. the 13 people listed in the article are still guilty.
however, large number of democrat supporters aren't much better, there's a ton of people commenting on forums who have changed their opinion to match the president even when the new postion is completely opposite to the previous one.
well, they are also deranged. it doesn't excuse your behaviour.
it just depresses me that there's a large segment of the voting population who are not interested about the truth, or human rights, or anything else that's enshrined in your founding documents. it's just about beating the other guys. nothing matters as long as we can throw more ***** at them than they throw at us.
as john stewart once said - "stop it! your'e killing america" - danieldantastic, on 05/18/2009, -4/+21I like Nancy, but if she knew about it and went along with it then she should sit in prison with the rest of them.
- pintomp3, on 05/18/2009, -10/+27It's hilarious to watch the neo-cons try to pin all the torture on Pelosi. Her crime is not speaking out against it to try and stop it. I understand the political climate at the time would have branded any dissenter as unpatriotic and weak on terror, but it would have been the right thing to do and she should be criticized for not doing it. But to put her on the same level as those who authorized the torture is just plain idiotic.
- Hetman, on 05/18/2009, -2/+19She probably makes the top 30 list. I cannot place her at number 1. She did not come up with the idea of torture she just went along with it.
- Ghostrider1, on 05/18/2009, -0/+17Why is Bush not #1 or #2? He was the president.
- toddc612, on 05/18/2009, -3/+19This is like an all-star list for douchbags..
- Hetman, on 05/18/2009, -15/+31I agree. She is just as guilty as everyone else is.
- kanojo1969, on 05/18/2009, -0/+15He was just as much of a puppet as anyone. Cheney and the other CFR members have been plotting to do this stuff since 1990, or earlier.
Bush's real crime was being too dumb to see what was going on. - youliveinfear, on 05/18/2009, -2/+17Actually, I completely get the point. The point is for the right, like solid demonstrates, to put all the emphasis on Pelosi, who allegedly knew about torture, to distract from the crimes by the Bush administration, that we know actually took place. It's partisan and it's sad. If Pelosi was involved and has committed a crime, then she needs to be prosecuted obviously. But this "Pelosi Pelosi Pelosi" act from those on the right is getting tiresome.
- IIAmusedII, on 05/18/2009, -6/+21You are an idiot. Are you claiming they authorized torture like the 13 mentioned in the article? At worst, they knew about it. That might make them less that blameless, but does not make them as guilty as the rest.
You right-wing retards are always trying to pull a "but they did it too" argument, and it never works. - mazaj423, on 05/18/2009, -2/+17Yeah it's almost as cute as how These 13 people committed war crimes and thought nothing bad would come of it
- philosophyzombi, on 05/18/2009, -0/+15As a side note: Does any one else think it is interesting that the SERE program was meant to train soldiers to resist attempts to extract FALSE confessions that could be used for propaganda? Maybe that should tell us something about at least one of the uses torture can serve for the state . . .
- inactive, on 05/18/2009, -1/+16By definition, if waterboarding is not torture, you don't include it in a training program designed to prepare people to endure torture.
A SERE school trainer, Malcolm Nance, has gone on record as stating that, yes, waterboarding is torture, which is why they use the technique. - inactive, on 05/18/2009, -3/+18What makes us different from the enemy is we do not use their same tactics. This is not the America I live in. We are supposed to be a civilized nation.
Disclaimer: While these people are innocent until proven guilty the evidence is mounting and I'm making a preemptive decision (preemptive is an ironic word here, no?) that all 13 are guilty. - thal3s, on 05/18/2009, -1/+15If you want to sink to the level of the Taliban and torture human beings go right ahead.
The rest of us are not willing to destroy America to "save it". - UberNick, on 05/18/2009, -1/+15If "the public" is ignorant and morally bereft enough to accept it, they hold just as much responsibility as the GOP mouthpieces you listed above. Prosecute the doers, shame the enablers.
- realeiger, on 05/18/2009, -0/+13Virtually everything that has "come out" in the last few months was known from two to five years ago b/c of investigative journalism.
Unfortunately the only people who bothered to say anything about it were smeared as moonbats as teh public burried its head in the sand. - thal3s, on 05/18/2009, -6/+19At least she has research to back up her claims. What do you have, an "I hate Libruls" t-shirt?
- BonitaApplebaum, on 05/18/2009, -6/+19this was really informative. I appreciate an in-depth piece.
- pintomp3, on 05/18/2009, -2/+15Is that why we prosecuted Japanese soldiers for waterboarding Americans?
- kemp34, on 05/18/2009, -3/+16Where would you place "sodomizing detainees with a boton"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_scandal - inactive, on 05/18/2009, -1/+14Bend the law, shred the Constitution just a little bit? Because if we torture him, guys, we do that and everything we have fought, and bled, and died for is over. And they've won. They've already won!
- piper999, on 05/18/2009, -0/+12Technically he was the United State's first fully non-functioning "pseudo President".
- pintomp3, on 05/18/2009, -3/+15You lying sack of *****:
Twenty-one years earlier, in 1947, the United States charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for carrying out another form of waterboarding on a U.S. civilian. The subject was strapped on a stretcher that was tilted so that his feet were in the air and head near the floor, and small amounts of water were poured over his face, leaving him gasping for air until he agreed to talk.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic ...
In the war crimes tribunals that followed Japan's defeat in World War II, the issue of waterboarding was sometimes raised. In 1947, the U.S. charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for waterboarding a U.S. civilian. Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story ... -
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