What is Digg?110 Comments
- Falconwing, on 01/11/2008, -0/+50This story is bigger than most of y'all will realize from the headline. The MPs (Members of Parliament) are not just aiming blows at the copyright lobby, they are saying outright that legalizing (legalizing!) file sharing is not just the best, but the ONLY solution, and they are quite frank about how the copyright industry needs to simply adapt or die.
Just today, opinion pieces on this topic were published in three out of four nationwide papers. To my knowledge, that's the first time ever that opinion pieces have been so synchronized and the debate has been so widespread.
I was just in a 90-minute (!) radio interview on national radio P3 about this. In addition to this story (which is a great summary), make sure to check out TankGirl's longer personal account of what's happening in Sweden right now:
http://www.p2pconsortium.com/index.php?showtopic=1 ... - spydon, on 01/11/2008, -4/+24If they don't make filesharing legal we will live in controlsociety and then we can no longer call ourself a democracy...
- bradallen18, on 01/11/2008, -0/+15for the love of science do not bring back Kazaa. all we need is another wave of spyware.
- Tippis, on 01/11/2008, -1/+15"democracy means freedom, as long as we don't murder/rape/molest/threaten/kill."
No. Democracy simply means you choose your government -- it has nothing to do with freedom. - tingrin87, on 01/11/2008, -2/+15i think we need Penn & Teller to do an episode on copywrights and/or filesharing...
- PistolSO, on 01/11/2008, -3/+15Go Sweden! At least somebody is sticking it to Big Content(the RIAA and other scoundrels)
- miccet, on 01/11/2008, -0/+9It feels weird to say this, (because it's normally not too tolerated in my home country to scream out) but with this whole copyright "fight back" and sanely criticizing it, I'm proud to be Swedish!
- inactive, on 01/11/2008, -0/+9Some of those shows were good, some of them were very lazy and onesided.
But yeah, that would be good to see.
Is that show even on anymore? - RandomGorilla, on 01/11/2008, -0/+7Damn. If I read that article right, your conservatives even support file sharing? You Swedes ***** rock!
- Aeaus, on 01/11/2008, -1/+8Nor does it mean you have the right to steal. Nor does it mean that it's falling apart just because something which you legally have to pay for you're obtaining through legally questionable methods. And if you don't like what the producers are offering you don't use their product, and not just whine about how bad they are and then steal it. Pick a side, you're either an unlawful pirate or you're following legal and moral law. This whole ***** on how music / commercial programs / etc should be free is utter ***** and results from a feeling of over-entitlement.
I pirate music, I realize it's wrong, I don't go posting or protesting how being denied the right to steal legally is an infringement on my civil rights. - yetAnotherCroc, on 01/11/2008, -0/+7You have a point with the movies, but the music comment tells me you dont have much insight into the music industry. Swedish writers are behind the majority of the big labels music. Sweden is the worlds third largest exporter of music. More artists then you can believe are actually not american but swedish. We do have a big stake in the music industry. We just allso believe in the rights of the individual and how they are more important then the rights of corporations.
- CasaMan, on 01/11/2008, -1/+7Wow, did Jesus write the bible? I all ways thought the copyrights of the Bible was supposedly in the hands of God Inc.
- Falconwing, on 01/11/2008, -0/+6This is a false argument. There are many different directives and conventions to follow, many of which contradict each other, and some have higher priority than others. One of the strongest is the European Convention on Human Rights, and its article 8 about right to privacy has become incompatible with the current pirate hunt. When facing the European Convention on Human Rights, everything else folds.
There have been frequent discussions in the EU about this regarding the new data retention directives, for example.
Sweden is perfectly at liberty to legalize file sharing tomorrow, should we desire to do so. - yetAnotherCroc, on 01/11/2008, -0/+6Var inte dum nu. MP står för Member of Parliament = Riksdagsledamot, inte Miljöpartiet! De sju riksdagsledamöterna var moderater allihop. Och även om Expressen är en kass skvallertidning nu för tiden så är det fortfarande en stor del av befolkningen som läser den och tar den på allvar.
Don't be silly. MP is for Member of Parliament. Not the Green Party. The seven MP's are Moderate. Expressen might have become a tabliod lately but a large portion of the public still read it and take it somewhat seriously. - Molnies, on 01/11/2008, -0/+6I'm assuming you're talking about Miljöpartiet (the Green Party) when you say MP? In this case MP stands for Members of Parliament, not Miljöpartiet. The politicians were actually members of the Moderate Party, the largest party in the current government and is considered to be the 2nd most conservative party of the 7 currently in parliament.
But I do agree with you that Expressen (the newspaper) is a piece of *****. - Eeqmcsq, on 01/11/2008, -0/+5If you do a Google search for "fashion industry copyright", you'll find some articles about how the fashion industry is doing well BECAUSE there's no copyright on fashion designs. This forces fashion designers to compete fiercely against the copiers by constantly innovating and coming up with new and creative designs, and the industry evolves quickly. Those fashion designers are protected by trademark laws on their brand names, and when the consumers understand that those brands are the "original" designers, and not "knock offs", they can sell their stuff at a higher price.
- rauz, on 01/11/2008, -0/+4Link to the interview for us other Swedes if you can.
- Threlly1, on 01/11/2008, -0/+4Essentially, some rich people from another country, who want to get richer, want you to change your laws, so that they can get richer.
NOT the artists importantly, but the rich who control the rights. - pigfister, on 01/11/2008, -0/+4DRM is not about stopping pirates its about selling licences and global price fixing with region coding by the MPAA!
this is what they want:
Sony recently released Warhawk game via PSN. if you purchase it you purchase a NONE transferable licence to play it, you cannot resell it, Lend it or even give it away it is locked to 1 account forever, you cannot even give it away with your ps3 as it is a violation to let anyone use your psn account and can have the account banned for life for this, it's kinda of like purchasing an empty bag, not even other family members can use it on their accounts because of the DRM if you family members want to play warhawk on their accounts they all have to purchase their own copy.
They want all media locked to 1 piece of hardware with 1 licence per user, this is their goal and piracy, is a great excuse to take away the freedoms we have enjoyed with media we own but soon you will only purchase a licence of use!
This is the reason the MPAA want Drm-Ray to succeed because as a final countermeasure against piracy with DRM-Rays BD+ DRM, studios can run ANY code they wish, including phone home authorisation and the ability to disable your hardware if you are running any hacks including a region code hack so you can watch films in your language where ever you live in the world.
The RIAA Soundexchange Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI.
The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX. - btalex1990, on 01/11/2008, -12/+16I think Sweden should make file-sharing legal, whether people share copyrighted data or not, because Libraries all over the world share, what about the bible, didn't copyrights of the bible goto Jesus, what about when people enjoy drinking beer or soda, aren't they sorta advertising the beer brand, isn't that copyright infringement without notice to the beer company or soda company, what about rental services, neighbors letting you barrow their digital discs, what about mothers letting their sons barrow their dvds.
Sharing will keep happening, no matter what, it's the human nature to share, in preschool sharing is caring, if sharing becomes illegal I wouldn't be surprised if suicide rates went up & and people wanted to kill them selfs because if we can't follow Human nature, we can't heal people, but we gotta kill people in IRAQ/IRAN/WORLDWIDE whats the point in even living if you can't help people because it's illegal.
File Sharing is Great, save the P2P Save the world
Bring back demonoid, save the world
Bring back Torrentspy
Bring back Elitetorrents, OINK.cd, Napster, Kazza, and all the P2P networks that got shut down by the RIAA/CRIA. - Falconwing, on 01/11/2008, -0/+4@fkr3:
Right to profit from their talents? Hmm, let's say you have a fantastic talent in solving Rubik's Cube. With one hand, even. Now tell me, do you believe you would have a RIGHT TO PROFIT from that talent?
There is no such thing as "right to profit". There is buyer and seller. And here, there is also a very strong monopoly (the copyright law).
If you want to make a profit, the same rule applies to you as to everybody else, artists included: provide a service or good that somebody wants to pay for. - inactive, on 01/11/2008, -0/+4Did you just say bring back Kazaa. Go ***** your self retard. The fact that Kazaa is dead or dying is the one of the only thing i can be grateful for the mpaa or riaa for doing.
- Falconwing, on 01/11/2008, -0/+3Ah, I stand corrected. That was the original opinion piece. From what I understand, more MPs simply rallied to the cause after that, making seven into 13. There was no cajoling and persuasion involved.
- Molnies, on 01/11/2008, -0/+3However big you want to make it, it will probably not happen for quite some time, if ever. The main reason for this is that Sweden can not legalize pirating even if the government wanted to, since they are a part of the European Union they have to get a green light from an EU court or such before anything can happen. And somehow I doubt that the EU would want to legalize piracy... I'm glad we're having a debate about it here in Sweden, but it's not in our hands to decide.
- jacquesm, on 01/11/2008, -0/+3copyright is dead. it will take a long time for this and all the associated effects to sink in but to all intents and purposes you are watching the death throes of a dying concept and all the people feeding of it. If it is a good thing or not only time will tell, but the internet makes it a simple fact. We can't go back to a world without an internet but I think we will definitely have to find a way to deal with a world without copyright.
It's sad for those who worked hard under the copyright establishment to eke out a bare living, but they'll get over it, the ones that were riding the gravy train are going to have a much harder time to adapt. - Scheissen, on 01/11/2008, -0/+3Yeah, Penn & Teller can be awesome...some of the times. They should also do one on private electronic voting machines that aren't open source because voting with pen and paper is a process that was known by the people, why not electronics?
- fkr3, on 01/11/2008, -1/+4@ Falconwing -
I have a talent, it's being able to conceptualise and solve problems. I'm handsomely rewarded for that. Everyone I know has some talent tied to their career choice and they're rewarded for it in the terms of their salaries. The only difference is most people I know don't produce work that can be reproduced by copy-and-pasting.
Why should musicians, actors, programmers (in my case) or any other producer of easily-pirated material be exempt from being rewarded for their talents? The stuff I produce could easily be pirated - if we weren't a step ahead of you guys. The publicly-distributable pieces I've produced or been involved in have been so deliberately and redundantly tied to online services they can't be used without a valid license and the validity of your license is decided a thousand miles from you and the key generator you downloaded.
Do I deserve to starve simply because my work, which is designed to make you money, can be copied without me losing 'the original'? Do I deserve to work a 2nd job to support you and a bunch of others I owe nothing to? I'm not under contract to some *IAA but results - aka sales - are a tangible measure of my ability and value. Am I worthless simply because you can cut & paste the files I produce?
I think not, and I'll use every trick in the book and then some to make your download irrelevant. At the end of the day I'll put so much of the product online that we control your use of the merchandise whether you like it or not. And if you're an actual customer you won't even notice it, you'll just click "I Agree" and use the product without hassle - until you try to share your rego info anyway. - gadgetuk, on 01/11/2008, -0/+3You kinda lost any credibility at "didn't copyrights of the bible goto Jesus". There are so many things wrong with that I don't even know where to start.
- damnitkitty, on 01/11/2008, -0/+3Ok...but you're talking about a product that the consumer has to physically own in order for it to be useful. I don't see how it's at all relevant to entertainment products that are stored digitally and shared over P2P connections.
- Falconwing, on 01/11/2008, -0/+3Since the request was for other Swedes, I ask forgiveness for the uselessness for other readers.
Link to the interview is http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/p3/nyhetssidor/index.asp? ... -- I should note that the 90 minutes are not full 90 minutes of talking, but interleaved with music and other easing-up. And to be frank, I didn't time it either, but it was over an hour, so 90 minutes was sort of my gut feel. It might be 60 or 75. The key thing was that it was way longer than anything I've been used to.
Anyway, Thursday's "Kvällspasset". I come on at about 30 minutes into the first hour. - catbeller, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2OS software is meaningless to the voting process. How do you know what code is running on what machine come election day? Ridiculously easy to change a system for a literal few microseconds to alter some data, then switch back to normal state. OS simply makes you go to sleep with a happy smile, thinking that you've licked the problem. The problem is not hacking from the outside, but inside jobs committed by those who have access.
- fkr3, on 01/11/2008, -4/+6Yeah ***** Big Content... who needs their content anyway? I mean apart from the people who pay for it, and the people who just take it without paying while desperately looking for excuses to blame Big Content for the reason they took it!!
- FilthyGnome, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2Proud to be Swedish. Sweden has really taken leaps and bounds in becoming the most prominent leader for a new digital age.
- diggeddugg, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2I could really get behind Sweden, if it weren't for the price of beer. You guys rock, and so does your country.
- bandola, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2First, thanks!
Second, 13 of the MPs that are conservatives support file sharing. As the article says, their researched plan proposed by Cecilia Renfors is opposed to file sharing. Only 13 out of the 97 Moderate Party (the conservatives) members in parliament have shown support. The rest probably follow the party line, which is following the Renfors plan and opposing copyrighted file sharing. - johngr, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2It would be a bad thing to lower the price of alcohol in Sweden. Swedes are such alcoholics that with cheap booze, no one would work anymore. You'd be waiting for the bus and it'd never come because the driver was at home too drunk to work or nursing a hangover. So you'd hitchhike and if you were lucky enough that the drunk driver that picked you up didn't plow into a telephone pole, when you got to the store, you'd go home with no meatballs, because all the employees didn't show up because they were drunk.
- weebit, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2"The message from the Moderate Party MPs to their Antipiratbyrån supporting colleagues was “be careful, they will never be satisfied”, drawing parallels to the earlier attempts to ban MP3 players, and VCRs, both areas in which, having failed to ban, industry groups are now making a profit from selling content."
This is true. Everything from cassette players up to DVD players with recording features built in have been taken to Court and lost trying to ban them outright. The industry would get a resolution to something, and just move on to another time, and time again. Plus if they were not successful in the United States, they took it abroad. What few things they got their way with has never been enough with them. To have the laws in place should be enough, but it never is. Get a few laws passed, and just a few months down the road, they are hauling someone else to court with a entirely different reason.
Just look at all of the lawsuits they have filed to date, it amounts to 1,000's of individuals, and industry leaders of audio, and video being taken to court, and many of the individuals I imagine were innocent. But paid, because they don't have the funds to fight them. The music industry is in a war with the very people that support them. They are in war with industry too. The Music industry is not fazed. They wont never stop. They will continue with their lawsuits regardless. - rauz, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2Tack!
- Eeqmcsq, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2There are entertainment products that can be owned, such as the original music CD or movie DVD. But even then, those aren't that hard to duplicate. There are other things that can't be digitally reproduced. For music, there's the live performances. For movies, there's the movie going experience. And there's physical merchandise, such as posters and toys and stuff.
The tough ones that I can't think of are TV shows and software. Downloading TV episodes are better because whoever made the file usually cuts out the commercials. Software is a tool that doesn't get replaced very often. I have no idea how those would work without copyright laws. - DogBotherer, on 01/11/2008, -1/+3Likewise @flkr3: Try this link and scroll down...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Sweden#Pop - snuggl, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2actually, we dont have a "conservative" party in sweden, "Moderaterna" is a party that houses both liberals and free market guys as well as old royalists and other conservatives, these feel they have enough in common to be in the same party as the opposite party is "socialdemokraterna", wich traditionally was socialists but now the political debate between the parties mostly is about if a tax should be this or that many percentages. There are politicians from both sides that supports filesharing and Moderaterna even talked about how they would make it easier on the filesharing us if we elected them but so far nothing has been done.
- jamesmcm, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2What's with the heroes quotes? 'Save the P2P, Save the world" lol
- m94mni, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2Services.... look at games - many games aren't that interesting to pirate, as you don't get access to the online stuff.
- Falconwing, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2This:
http://sigfrid.wordpress.com/2008/01/07/decriminal ... - Radan, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2Well, just to name a few which I can think about right now; Pluxus, Teddybear STHLM, The Knife, Basshunter, Eric Prydz, The Cardigans, In Flames, Caesars Palace and Robyn are all from Sweden.
- fkr3, on 01/11/2008, -0/+2Giving the product away is not the same as moving on with the times.
I'm all for electronic distribution - I love the convenience of iTunes.
I wouldn't complain if I had to pay less for movies and music but I'm certainly not getting ripped off - I bought 2 more albums last night for a total of $25 and I'll listen to them dozens of times.
I'd like to have more portability with my purchases - but I don't expect anyone to work for free. - JQP123, on 01/11/2008, -0/+1Q: Why is pirating so popular?
A: Because it so easy. Anyone can buy a CD or DVD and make it available on the internet.
What would happen to piracy if it were not so easy to aquire a CD or DVD? What happens if you can't just *buy* one because they're simply not sold? What happens if the only way to get easy access to high quality music, movies or software is through a connection to a subscription service using an approved device?
- catbeller, on 01/11/2008, -0/+1Let's go with a semantic reorientation, firstly.
You cannot "own" an idea. Or a sound, or an image, or movement, or instructions. IP is a misnomer, and should be rightly called Imaginary Property. Patterns and words are free in the world by the fact that they are infinitely reproducible without lessening the original. They don't actually "exist". And they are are impossible to own because once seen or understood by another human being, they are no longer yours. One cannot own or regulate the contents of other people's minds, and this concept of IP is nothing less than trying to regulate by government power the content and application of content of people's minds. It cannot be done without a police state that dwarfs anything the Stazi dreamed of -- and that state is now under construction to the general apathy of the U.S.
As for artists wanting a piece of any action forevermore -- an copyright is now eternal, make no mistake -- a bricklayer is more a part of a building than any artist is of a song. The bricklayer can point to the actual brick, yet is not entitled to a royalty. A "content" producer somehow is; this is done by government fiat, a compromise by Jefferson, who wanted no copyright, and others who believed that an artists should make a living. The compromise was 13 years; 13 years to make your cash, then the world could use the idea for free forever. This has been corrupted into an eternal property right, and no idea can be free after 1927. The deal has been unilaterally broken by people who invented imaginary property rights, and the only response now is to ignore them until they, perhaps, return to the original concept of a copyright instead of a police state IP regime. - Travelsonic, on 01/11/2008, -0/+1which can all be exploited, I bet.
- catbeller, on 01/11/2008, -0/+1Well, what happens? Are the original designers out of business? This is not a hypothetical, as this is real. Apparently they are wealthy and doing well.
-
Show 51 - 100 of 107 discussions
Browsing Digg on your phone just got easier with our enhancements to the 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is