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- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -26/+139Impeachment will open the can of worms. We'll all learn about the neocon cabal who have hijacked the US Government. We'll learn of their connections to illegal arms dealing, including black market nukes and yellow cake; we'll learn of profits from the Afghan poppy fields and worldwide heroin distribution are filling the wallets of many of these neocons and their associate banks, like BCCI, who launder all the cash. We'll learn of the sex slave trafficking, including children. We'll learn of the network made up of retired Pentagon Officials moving on to work for the ATC and how they distribute and deal in all their illicit businesses. Ultimately we'll learn that the entire dirty network is managed by neocon central: AIPAC
Let FBI Whistle blower Sibel Edmonds testify before the Senate and you'll learn more serious things about these architects of war.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/20/61740/4471
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9774.htm - EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -19/+114I just sent the following letter to Speaker Pelosi. Feel free to use it, edit, etc... Her email address is: AmericanVoices@mail.house.gov
Dear Madame Speaker,
I believe I understand why someone in your position would need to be cautious about supporting impeachment. But I hope you will have time to read this note personally and thoughtfully consider that the time to "shift gears" is here.
Consider:
1. The President and Vice-President have shown a blatant disregard for Congressional authority and especially the rule of law. Even if avoiding impeachment seems beneficial for the '08 election, how do you know they won't effect additional actions (even crimes) between now and '08? If they were willing to con this nation into a major occupation, how can we be sure they won't devise a way to sweep Republicans into office again, out of sheer self-preservation or worse? How can we responsibly take that risk, when we know how they operate?
2. Even if they don't intentionally escalate us into Iran, or fumble and cover-up some future anti-terrorism effort with dire results; even if something horrible doesn't occur to set us back to 9/12/01, do you really think avoiding impeachment will help Democrats get elected? Democrats will lose all credibility as these crimes continue to bubble out. Democrats will seem increasingly complicit, as some already do. The longer you wait, the worse you look. And those who made the wrong call in 2002 deserve one final chance to redeem themselves before '08. Otherwise, the mood of the nation may be to vote out of office anyone who "voted in" this war.
3. If we do not impeach now, we will never learn the truth until the principals are dead, and perhaps not even then -- these are crimes, remember. The next President, of either party, will not spend her or his time "dredging up the past." We'll have "too much work to do." Therefore these crimes will pass, unmitigated and unpunished. And the world will rightly condemn us for being a nation with the Rule of Law in name only. Americans will increasingly come to understand the frustration that some of our enemies must feel who lack a "just channel" for their grievances, for lacking a consistent Rule of Law. That's not somewhere we can afford to go, not with such proto-fascist/dictatorial tendencies around.
4. Can crimes be proved? Consider 18 USC 371 -- conspiracy to defraud the United States, with a fairly low bar. Consider the clear-cut violations of the Presidential Recordings Act, the Hatch Act, various Obstruction(s) of Justice in the attorney firings and the delivery/destruction of subpoenaed evidence, and even some troublesome hints of a modern Iran/Contra-like affair (albeit in reverse). Consider violations of treaties and conventions that should carry the weight of law. Consider everything, and ask yourself if there really is nothing that can be proved in six months, let alone six weeks or less?
5. Can evidence even be gathered? Yes. If the House certifies that its investigations are for _criminal_conduct_, then maybe we can finally get the "privileged" evidence that's been withheld. Similarly, subpoenas for witness testimony should be compelled, with Contempt of Congress whispered on your lips. If SCOTUS is going to let them off the hook, we need to know sooner rather than later. We must avoid the debacle of Iran/Contra, with immunity and special deals, and a result of all senior criminals off the hook. We have to put such enormous pressure on them that they make mistakes and crack. They may be fools, but they are not idiots.
6. And finally, the real pressure comes from us, the people, who are ready for this fight. This is why the leadership must take up the charge of informing the American people about what's really been going on, rather than simply dismissing the charges out of hand. There are so many scandals, people don't know what to think anymore. We need to see the crimes organized (no pun) and put forth in a coherent document of charges, otherwise known as Articles of Impeachment, supported by major players to make the news. And we need a huge PR effort to get the constituents of 17+ GOP Senators to come to see the light, impeach Cheney first, and then Bush, and fire the rest.
Is it worth the risk to Democratic prospects for '08?
When you consider the magnitude of crimes and risks of doing nothing, do we really have a choice?
Sincerely, - Sulfhydryl, on 10/12/2007, -9/+59We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. - darkbytes, on 10/12/2007, -12/+55It's about damn time we open that can of worms.
- Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+33I'm not sure why someone would digg down The Declaration of Independence.
- jrsims, on 10/12/2007, -7/+33Well, it's interesting. The conversation about impeachment - whether for or against it - is only continuing and increasing. I think that's an important trend to take note of.
It's not going away. - superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -10/+32They have to if we turn the noise up loud enough. The government is supposed to reflect the will of the people, something that has been lost on the American Government from around 1929 forward. With the Cold War, the government became larger and larger and even more unwieldey.
The Pentagon, built during WWII as a central command post, was expected to be used as storage after the war.
If that isn't the best example of how outrageous our government has become, look at how ineffective it has become, so tied up in commercial interests, it is disgusting. It represents the view of the aristocratic few. It was a government that was supposed to allow for the existence of a proletariat, bourgeoisie, and aristocracy without the privelage in governmental systems associated with European governments at the time of its formation.
Funny how the roles have been reversed in this day and age.
It is about time we stop sleeping, stop sucking our thumbs and allowing to be walked all over. We need to stand up and retake power in our lives, renew our voices and refresh the American democracy so it can continue to serve the free world for centuries to come. - Marijuana, on 10/12/2007, -14/+36Digg up if you are for impeaching.
Digg down if you are against it.
IMPEACH!!! - dsendecki, on 10/12/2007, -6/+27Not without backing up your conclusion. Dugg down for lack of effort.
- Wargalas, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22You don't seem to be busy, why don't you take a crack at it?
- dforty3, on 10/12/2007, -8/+23I've already lost faith in this government and the corporate media too. Impeachment and ratification by the Senate would maybe help restore it. Maybe. The taking back of the public airwaves would help even more to ensure the next administration aren't puppets for the Globalists.
And yes, those ***** are involved child sex slave trafficking you ignorant morons....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3395321338401208062 - jeremy66158, on 10/12/2007, -13/+26If a better president can get impeached for a blow job why can't this Bush get impeached for f***ing up the US?
- Dumbledorito, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19Really? Funny. I think it was dislike for Clinton that got the ball rolling on having any kind of friggin' investigation. As far as I know, cheating on your spouse isn't an impeachable offense.
But without the investigation, there'd be no oath to break, and ergo, no impeachment.
If you're truly honest with yourself and read the rhetoric of the era, you can't tell me that a deep-seated hatred for the Clintons didn't get the Republican congress to appoint an independent counsel.
Now, in this era, we have evidence of starting a war under false pretenses, at the very least favoritism to croneys and associated corporations, lying to congress, conflicts of interest out the yin-yang, etc. But without getting the Republicans to break the 11th commandment ("Thou shalt not speak ill of thy fellow Republican), calling for impeachment is about all there is to be done.
And do recall, impeachment is just an indictment that could lead to prosecution. With Clinton, it was pretty much symbolic. With Nixon, there probably would have been an actual trial. With Bush? Well, that just depends on if any kind of actual investigation is allowed to proceed. - DarthSupero, on 10/12/2007, -9/+22Hi. Nice to meet you.
You do now. - InetRoadkill, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Only a 28-percenter would Digg down the Declaration of Independence. I blame the Kool-Aid.
- chanceman, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19Forget impeachment, we could waterboard him... after all, it's not torture.
- InetRoadkill, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16@choop:
"I'm fairly sure that actual LAWS need to be broken before a president can be impeached."
FALSE. Congress may impeach for any reason they see fit. - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18Treason is unlawful.
- ganjadude4391, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15nope
- Wargalas, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17@Dumbledorito
That's the second time you've claimed that Clinton was impeached for a blowjob, and this is the second time I've told you that it was for lying to a grand jury. Perhaps you didn't listen before? Perhaps you wrote before your brain could think? Perhaps you're just stupid? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14ron paul is being ignored in the debate tonight.
- InetRoadkill, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14I'm a (now former) republican and I'm all for impeachment. The GOP needs to purge the cancer that has overwhelmed it.
- smellmyballs, on 10/12/2007, -15/+23I am so tired of those ***** (Bush and Cheney) making the rest of the world think that we are ALL ***** simply by association. Sheesh! Will someone impeach these ***** already before they completely bankrupt our country and destroy the future for all of us and our kids. These guys have turned the US into their personal playhouse to do whatever the hell they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want without any accountability or abiding by the constitution. I don't care who does it...but our so called elected officials better grow some balls and listen to the will of the people already. I'm tired of our honorable good soldiers being used as cannon fodder while domestic issues like health care, having textbooks for kids, poverty, hunger, etc. go onto the sideburner. The president and vice president are OUR EMPLOYEES and when an employee continually ***** up...we gladly show them the door.
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Just a note: you'd need to use two comments for this, one saying digg up for impeachment, the other saying digg up for no impeachment. Using one comment doesn't tell us how many people voted, just what the net score is. Not very useful if it's 50/50, eh?
- dukeeeey, on 10/12/2007, -8/+16http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=786048453686176230
IMPEACH NOW !!!!!!!! - LadyBeGood, on 10/12/2007, -9/+17Democrats want to be your mommy.
Republicans want to be your daddy.
Libertarians want to treat you like an adult. - julian02392, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11We should just have another "Digital Boston Tea-Party" on Digg but with stories about impeaching Bush :)
- superal1394, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14have you not been watching Digg? remember the stories on how we are finding out more and more that the deibold machines had corrupt databases?
Thats only the digital machines, imagine how else Bush and his kronies have fudged numbers. - StarCrusher, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11You know a lot of people who are for impeachment. Most just don't come out and say it for fear of being criticized by their friends. As it becomes more acceptable to voice what they privately hold, more Americans will come out of the closet. It hasn't been that long since saying you were in favor of impeachment would get you branded as unpatriotic and potentially treasonous.
- zediker, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15"If a better president can get impeached for a blow job why can't this Bush get impeached for f***ing up the US?"
He wasnt impeached because of the BJ, he was impeached because he lied about it to congress, which is an impeachable offense, the same thing Bush/Cheney is guilty of as well. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+14I'm Jim, nice to meet you. I'm for impeachment.
- Coven, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10@lacronicus
Clinton's impeachment trial took 21 days.
Bush has 627 days left in office.
I'd say that gives Congress plenty of time to gather evidence and draw up articles of impeachment against Bush. - nodong, on 10/12/2007, -8/+13True, but she's the only moron we've got.
- knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8geekee: classical neo-con ass-sniffing rhetoric. i expect next you'll salute whatever the fourth reich puts together for a flag. the red stands for blood, i suppose.
you know, jesus washed the feet of the destitute - and he wasn't even christian! he was a jew! go figure. learn something amazing every day.
wake the ***** up or find yourself against the wall with your hands interlocked behind your head on the announcement of a rex 84 executive order. and the journalists covering the tragedy will be beaten just like they were in LA this past weekend. well, guess noone's going to be watching your sorry ass on fox tonight.
the military commissions act does not condone your even pondering a stray from the "NORMAL". "ACCEPTED". "AUTHORIZED". - Zarchon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Do you read anything that is posted above your posts? Why do people do that? Make points that have already been addressed above. For those of you who think Clinton was impeached for a blow job, your opinions aren't worth the time to read even if you have a valid point because even years later you still don't understand that Clinton was impeached for LYING to the Grand Jury. Can't believe anything you say. As for you who believe Bush STOLE the election in 2000 and then again in 2004, you lose all credibility too. For those who think Bush knowingly lied about WMDs, Clinton, your god, came out in support of Bush on the WMDs and said they were there in 1998. Just because they were not there in 2003 doesn't mean that the president lied about it. As long as the left spouts so much misinformation they will never be taken seriously. Even now, as soon as any of the media starts printing anything NOT against the right the left starts calling them names and saying they are under right wing influence. I agree that the right, Bush and all, are PUSHING the limits of what is acceptable. FDR did worse, Lincoln did worse. I am not making excuses. Jimmy Carter almost ruined the country singlehandedly in only 4 years. The real problem is that all politicians don't seem to represent the people. However, that said, the Left is so hypocritical that I just can't fathom ever voting for a Democrat.
- EntropyMan, on 10/12/2007, -4/+9I think it's a tipping point kind of phenomenon. Someone can be totally against impeachment until they hit that "final straw," and then they're for it all of a sudden. It's a rapid transformation.
The trigger is different for everyone. But until they reach that point, they will simultaneously understand both the reasons for and against and yet they will vehemently oppose -- they just don't want to go through the pain it would represent. They think they can get by without going through that pain.
It's the same process as accepting something horrible, say, someone you love is a drug abuser, or even a sexual abuser. You resist knowing or dealing with it because of everything it would imply, and what the consequence would be, until you can resist no more.
And then it's a rapid transformation to the other side, realizing that we must go through that pain no matter what. - knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8yeah, it's ridiculous to think that taking murderers out of their ring of fire will do any good whatsoever.
wake the ***** up - unless you like death, and dream it upon others, in which case this administration must be right up your alley.
oil for blood, right? saddam had WMD! no, he had ties to al quaeda! oh, wait, no he didn't! well, he would have if he hadn't been surrounded by UN officials watching his every move! and that's not even counting CIA officials which we cannot talk about - (unless it's plame! tee hee)
two people fall in love.
let's be honest, he dugg that ass, and she that checkbook.
and they made a child.
and they loved him from the very beginning because he was their flesh and blood.
and now, either one of those parents, still married or divorced, ask them: what is the most important thing in your life?
"my children" - dforty3, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10Not impeaching makes the statement that any administration could lie, cheat and steal and get away with it. To not impeach is to throw away this great experiment we call America.
- knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8alas, dforty3, that more people don't have your value of life. man i wish you were my neighbor. seriously, i might as well mow both the lawns if i have the lawnmower out.
and we could go sailing. tell you what, beer ain't never gonna taste better than when you're sippin' one talkin' ***** with a good friend and that sun is just fixin to slip over the horizon. it's pretty.
let's hook up some day. you & entropyman too. we'll have a time of it. - knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7nougat: it's the clear sign of fascism afoot that someone dugg down the declaration of independence.
the thought expressed within that document is the key to the cuffs of the chains of slavery. - Archer1980, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10darkbytes is right, lets open the can of worms so that we can open up the dusty can of whoop ass!!!
- modese7en, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9I'm Jim too, and I endorse the other Jim's message
- skinjester, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6brilliant!
:) - Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9@QEDbitches (#6500783) said: ""actual laws" you say? Open your eyes and your ears a bit instead of sticking to your blind dogmatic following of the Bush Regime and maybe you'll spot a few."
No, see, this administration has it all tied up. They change the laws *first,* then operate within those changed laws. And just in case they forget to change the law first, there's always signing statements. - DigitalDud, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12Libertarians just want to smoke pot.
- RazielX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3No, the Dems are not smart politically. The people got them elected ultimately to clean up after the neocons and to take out the garbage. The garbage is still there..they're not cleaning anything up.
If my representatives don't do their job and clean up the mess that Bush started - including throwing him out of office (and into jail if this is a perfect world), then I have no choice but to vote them out come election time.
A lot of them are blatantly ignoring the issue of impeachment, focusing instead on reducing the budget for the war. If they focused on both goals, maybe something good would come of their being elected into office.
As far as getting things done...the Bush administration is fighting tooth and nail to stop them, so really, all they're doing is causing a stand still...nothing's getting accomplished - just how the Bush administration wants... - thankyousir, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Interesting video. Thanks for the link!
- CarpeFishem, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"Support for impeachment is bigger than we think"
In your little Digg world, yes. But there are 299 million more Americans than you all. - WileEPeyote, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@zarchon
hammydude is correct, there is evidence that the founding fathers (not all) wanted there to be a seperation of church and state. It's not that they were against religion, they were concerned that we would end up with a state religion. Remember that Christians do not always consider other Christians as being of the same religion and you can see where there could be issues. Here is some Thomas Jefferson for ya:
'I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" thus building a wall of eternal separation between Church & State.'
Full text and more here: http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpost.html - lacronicus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4wait, so you want them to do it so they look like fools, but you think they are fools if they dont? good logic there. given your current position, i fail to see how you can call anyone a dumbass.
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