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Senators question FBI's Patriot Act powers & warn FBI could lose power

cnn.com — A Senate panel wants to know if the Patriot Act needs to be revised to keep the FBI from illegally or improperly gathering telephone, e-mail and financial records of Americans and foreigners while pursuing terrorists.

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  • notebuk91, on 10/12/2007, -3/+23I don't approve of the FBI's methods, but it is interesting the extent to which for profit (maybe even not for profit) organizations get away with storing massive amounts of personal info. Yes, the FBI has tools to do great harm. But what about some of the data-mining some Fortune 500s do? Isn't that also taking snooping too far?
    • swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -12/+8While fortune 500 data mining and FBI surveillance could be said to have superficial similarities, only an idiot would confuse the two issues.
    • captinherb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18@swrostmore:

      It's more than just superficial. the FBI actually farms out some of the data mining to private corporations. I would suspect that it is more intertwined than most people know.
    • d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5You cannot separate the two. The government surveillance and databases, and corporate surveillance and databases are intimately intertwined; both theoretically and practically. At the end of the day, it is about the sheer amount of power that these tracking abilities give to the government and corporations. And, with regards to the government, our right to limit these powers is unquestionable.
    • Photokon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@tomthewombat

      Don't you mean as long as it DOES hold up in a court of law?
    • bob_the_alien, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"As far as I am concerned, the FBI can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hold up in a court of law."

      Exactly the kind of attitude ppl have before a tyrannical dictatorship or fascists government takes control of a nation.
      We must control the power of the governed, our four-fathers even wrote the constitution out, so we could take actions against our government if it became to big or tyrannical. Our Government is suppose to be for the ppl, not against, and the power they have now, they only use it against us.
    • cl0r0x70, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Every bit of information that is collected on you, from you ISP's log files to the grocery stores records from your discount card to your EZPass info, can all be subpoenaed and used against you by law enforcement.

      In today's environment, tho, all the law usually has to do is say "give it", and corporations are doing so (even in the increasingly few instances where they don't have to.)
    • littlebylittle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Let's not "warn them." Let's just remove the power. It has obviously been abused.
    • Bamont, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"Every bit of information that is collected on you, from you ISP's log files to the grocery stores records from your discount card to your EZPass info, can all be subpoenaed and used against you by law enforcement."

      Show me one piece of information proving that. I'd love to see it.
  • brokekneck, on 10/12/2007, -3/+25 I'm just glad to see this unconstitutional intrusion under fire. Its not my job to decide the verdict. But the doctrines of this Act need to be on trial for treason. This is one of the most anti-American bills ever enacted. I take it into consideration that most of congress might have been thinking due to what happened in New York. Its time to abolish the Patriot Act.
    • triad203, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5>>5883271
      " Its time to abolish the Patriot Act."

      Agreed, but the word you're looking for is repeal.

      Repeal the Patriot Act, impeach the ***** who put it there.
  • populist, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12i'd like to see the Senate restrained too. How about the entire damn government!
    • Ibanezfoo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Amen to that! Current government needs a neutering!
  • citizenmatt, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11I think it's mostly the Exec. Branch that needs restraining. I haven't heard of any constitutional violations by the legislative judicial branches...
    • bobthebruce123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9You might not have "heard" of any "constitutional violations" coming from the judiciary because its kind of a constant white noise of conflict ever since Marbury v. Madison. (Claiming for the judiciary broad powers of constitutional interpretation). Its certainly far less publicized than actions taken by the white house. Enter law school, and the first thing you'll talk about is "can the supreme court do ANY of this", let alone was this the right decision...
      Then there's all the talk of "legislating from the bench." It's just not unconstitutional because they've decided they say what the constitution is to begin with.
    • Osjpr, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"I haven't heard", so it's not true..... I think we've stumbled upon the key to why people can be idiots when it comes to politics
    • geekee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16"I haven't heard of any constitutional violations by the legislative judicial branches..."

      Eminent domain decision?
  • dukeeeey, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1551348336255792191
  • Racerx52, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"Senators question FBI's Patriot Act powers"

    That is the highlight of my week. Good job congress!
    • BJKWJK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Sennators are in the Senate, not the congress.
    • ShmoeTheHo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Uhm... Senators make up the Senate, Representatives make up the House of Representatives -- Together, they form a bicameral CONGRESS.
  • adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12They can question all they want, but until they actually DO something meaning full it doesn't matter one bit.
    • fuzzmeister, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3The Senate is about as fast as a slug drenched in molasses. Give it time, and it gets where you want it to go occasionally.
    • TheDiggPig, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Exactly adml shake, congress seems to think as long as they know there is a problem they are doing there jobs...but they forget they actually have DO something to fix the problem.

  • scottelloco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@notebuk91

    For the most part we can choose the businesses we patronize, but the FBI offers no choice and has no competition.
  • morrislevy, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2Bout time! Damn the FBI.
    • skyfire1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Although the FBI benefit a lot from the Patriot Act, they're not the people that made it.
    • d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Yes, but the FBI showed no problem or hesitation in exploiting it to the detriment of our free society.
  • MudkipsULiekEm, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1Put them to the test.

    Call your friends cell phones leaving suspicious messages about your guys' plan to take action against the president.

    I freak my friends out by leaving them daily messages of this stuff. I eagerly await the day I get contacted so I can question them as to why they're monitoring me :)
    • d00ley, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1More than likely, you won't be contacted. You will just wake up one day unable to travel or are unexplainable "let go" from your job.
  • ChewyBass, on 10/12/2007, -11/+2No, they don't need their powers taken away. What American has been harmed by them seeking out terrorist. As for foreigners, guess what, our constitutional rights do not apply to you, so get over it.
    • knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal...

      Amendment IX

      The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

  • TheDiggPig, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Congress is just going to give this the run around until the pressure is off and then they will say there was no wrong doing done by the FBI.That seems to be the procedure every time someone gets caught doing something they shouldn't be doing.
  • donkadonk911, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Repeal the Patriot Act and return the Constitution to the people.

    Arrest the real terrorists. Enough of this theater!
    • Ibanezfoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yeah... they'll do it because you demand it on a comments page of a website. Good luck with that.
    • knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1ibanezfoo: "No more sword to be feared than the learned pen" or "the pen is mightier than the sword"
    • Ibanezfoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Or the keyboard, as it were.... But my poiny is still valid. A person making demands in one of the least likely places that anyone of consequence will read it is rather pointless. Especially so since the one giving the demands is nobody of consequence.
    • Ibanezfoo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1*point. -poiny +point
    • knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1we are reading it.

      are we inconsequential?

      nah... we are both the wiser now.
  • slapsack, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2just to play devil's advocate for once...the fbi isn't autonomous.they take orders.

    i wholeheartedly agree,down with the patriot act! it is just about the most un-patriotic act ever passed,probably ties with the federal reserve act. but it prolly won't be gone anytime soon.
  • acudoc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Perhaps if members of Congress were actually required to sit through the reading of an entire proposed bill, we would have smaller, more understandable, constitutional laws that actually benefited the country and in which all the porking provisions would be highlighted for the American electorate to see (google the proposed Read the Bills Act). The added advantage would be that people might start to question the purpose to which the federal government is being put, contra the explicitly empowered actions allowed by the Constitution.
  • Mikesfedup, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3If you want Congress to do something worthwhile, then you must call or write...CONSTANTLY! At least 2 or 3 times a week. Now, You must know they listen to whomever is lobbying them, so if the grassroots is to be heard, then the grassroots must be loud, clear, AND relentless. If you want change for the better, then you have to fight with no easing up. Simple as that.
  • alpinestarless, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yes the more you lie on phone the more confused their system gets. Variety of made up wrongdoing (fake) conversation will make the system useless.
  • SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1If anyone trusted this adminstration to only go after terrorists I doubt they (Senators) would have as big of a problem with the Act...but this country has elected a President who has proven himself to be so untrustworthy that everyone is justified not to trust him or anyone he has appointed to an office. Period!!!

    I doubt its even the spying that bothers people, its knowing they can spy, call you a terrorist, and not have to prove *****...for example, if they dont like something you write, or it strikes the wrong nerve, or you call the wrong newspaper and have something negative written, they can start spying, dig up old ***** to charge you on or fabricate something...and no judge to protect your rights? NOONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD ACCEPT THIS!!!

    For some, it creates a "chilling effect" for me, its a dare. So I hope they get annoyed when I call this admin out for the deceivers they are. In fact, this administration is like a backyard full of dogs with diarrhea...no matter where you go your steppin in their *****!!!

    I think if they gave up on their lies a long time ago, theyd have more support from their own people and the liberals. Still wouldnt have mine though, cuz unlike some of his supporters and his adversaries, I actually believe in God.

    KIK PROATS NUCKAS!!!

  • weebit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Our Congress passed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which required that agencies receive warrants from a special court staffed by judges with top secret clearance before spying on U.S. soil. Which means a warrant has to be issued before they can act on any person on US soil. This has been a standard for many years. It was passed in the 1970's to stop abuse by the higher Government offices. In other words abuse was out of control, and then Congress went in and stepped on a few toes to protect our Constitutional Rights. It's one thing to be acting like God, and another to be playing the part of God. The NSA along with a few other agencies abused their power plain and simple. Even though I don't remember Congress getting involved and this taking place. It had to be absolutely bad in order for Congress to be involved in it, and taking action against them. So this is something to consider. Plus to remember. If they had of stayed in their boundaries years ago, then the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act never would of been written to protect the public.

    It is clear to me that they never learned their lesson years ago, until someone stepped up, and put a halt to it, and they haven't learned their lesson now. So making the rules for them to follow is the right way to settle this once and for all. I don't believe President Bush either when he says he has a right to do away with our Constitutional Rights because he is our President, and we are at war. No man, woman, or child has the right to take our rights away from us. I don't care who they are.
    • knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1+0?

      what i would like to know is the name of the fascist that dugg you down, weebit.
    • Ibanezfoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2And just what would you do if you knew their name?
    • knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1not vote for them if they ever ran for office.
    • Ibanezfoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2So, what you are saying is that you would not vote for a made up screen name of an individual who clicked on a red thumbs down button on a random website? I find that logic to be odd for some reason.
    • knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The mind is originally empty, and only when it remains empty, without grasping or rejecting, can it respond to natural things, without prejudice. It should be like a river gorge with a swan flying overhead; the river has no desire to retain the swan, yet the swan's passage is traced by its shadow, without omission. ~ Lin Ching-hsi
  • drdreau, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1It's about time, I just can't believe bush pushed this patriot act into use, after stealing the electionS, swearing himself in to the country and now he has completely obviated the country's constitution by passing this act, like Jay Leno said, "Afghanistan will adopt USA's Constitution because we aren't using it anymore." OH no I'm not American, but my eyes are wide open to the fact that not the Country, but the people who are "running" the country would have no issue with watching everything I would do, because they are watching everything that it's own residents do.
    You don't work for the government, THE GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR YOU! sorry for the rant people, but I'm big on my freedom, I'd be out protesting everyday, and I am worried about the state of Canada because our new Prime Minister Steven Harper, seems to be a big fan of the Bush Administration.
    Take the power back!
  • ATHEISTinHELL, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2isn't the patriot act one of those impeachable offenses. i mean when people go on the news and say the president needs to be impeached they talk about Iraq mess (which can be debated on some level should we stay or go) or the attorney firings. but no one brings up the domestic wiretapping program which is without a doubt unconstitutional.
  • keymanjim, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Looks like the surrendercrats are trying to seize powers that they aren't constitutionally granted.
    Questioning the AG about legal firings.
    Trying to force a troop pullout in Iraq.
    And now trying to shut down the FBI.

    I do believe that usurping the constitution like that are acts of treason.
  • bonez56, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1zip the flip *****
  • SOULEVENT, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3@keymanjim

    Looks like the surrendercrats are trying to seize powers that they aren't constitutionally granted.
    Questioning the AG about legal firings.
    Trying to force a troop pullout in Iraq.
    And now trying to shut down the FBI.

    I do believe that usurping the constitution like that are acts of treason.

    noone else would believe me if I said it, but more of my views are based on a common sense of right and wrong, so I cant be either LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE however...you made a rediculous statement...first off I dont know how stopping a moron from waging a war he doesnt intend to ever WIN is surrender...

    regardless if you pull out of Iraq your gonna have plenty exciting places to go and people to kill (probably cant wait to start here in America), just put American Flags on all the Iraqi Soldiers Uniforms and tell them youll be there in SPIRIT...at least your spirit, you cant have MINE, I believe in God.

    Second, you cant try to switch this BS up and call it treason to stop someone from committing treason...thats just rediculous.
    The attorney firing WERE not totally on the level, which is why they are being investigated...so CALLING them legal doesnt make the whole matter legal...getting rid of attorneys legal...yep...the way you deceitfully play politics to subvert the justice system...ERRRRRRRRRRH sorry big boy, wrong answer.

    9/11, this war on terror, and every act of subversion aimed to get people just like you on their side has been an act of treason from the get go...so your wrong on that as well, the only treasoness act from congress in this regard was YOUR congress that let him do whatever the hell he wanted...if anything, this congress is being PUSSY and wont do what JUSTICE demands, and you know what that is. Congress does have the to power of the purse...what I wonder is if they cut off the funds, will your president let all of our soldier DIE over there rather than use the money he has to bring em home.

    Shut down the FBI? I thought we were talking about specific powers in the Patriot Act? And in that regard, since the Patriot Act is coming up under review, (I dont know how you take a SCHEDULED review of an Act that affects all Americans as treason) and since the crimes talked about is on the part of the person abusing his power with PSYCHOTIC widespread spying on Innocent Americans...how is discussion or a scheduled hearing treason again? how is reviewing and making changes to secure OUR rights as citizens treason? Im sure you have an answer in that big ol brain of yours yes?

    You can pretend that its treason to stop a group of capitalist whores from subverting democracy and overthrowing our country...BUT ITS NOT.

    IMPEACH THE WHOLE BUSH ADMINISTRATION, SO I CAN GET ON WITH BLASTING THOSE GODLESS LIBERALS!!!

    KIK PROATS NUCKA!!!
  • farksucksmasack, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3come on you guys. everyone knows that the only way to stay safe from the terrorists hiding under the bed is to let bushco and the neocons hide in the closet and listen to everything we say or do.
    • weebit, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0The point is there is abuse of power. Yes everyone knows they need to be able to search, ease drop, stalk, or what ever it takes to find and stop the terrorist. But they don't need a regular guy working from 9-5 that never had a bad bone in his body to do these things too. neither do they need to do their spying on someone that doesn't share the same political views as they do. They don't need to spy on their political rivals either, just so they can have a heads up on them. Disagreeing doesn't make you a terrorist. They need not act like a total jerk just because they have more power than the normal police departments, or States for that matter. They don't need to bully, or throw their weight around just because they can. That is the issue!
    • stepnw1f, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Yes... we must all bow to Bush and throw away our freedoms out of fear of Bin Laden. According the the right wing, cowardice is the American way... Orwell is spinning in his bed.

      BTW - where is Bin Laden? Not in Iraq!
    • knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Constitution of the United States of America

      Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

      Amendment XIV Section 1 All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
  • weebit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2We type out what our Consitutional Rights are, and the laws, and we get dugg down. We act like a total jerk, and we get diggs. Honestly this is why I told many in the past that Americans don't care about their liberty's. You could loose it tomorrow, then I bet you would be pissed. Oh wait! You don't care!
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