What is Digg?312 Comments
- totorototoro, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1412020? Just 35mpg?
http://hi-mpg.org/gas-mileage.php?vehicle=honda_crx_hf88 - ChillEnt, on 10/11/2007, -5/+102Maybe 35mpg by 2010, not 2020.
By 2020, I'd like to think that we would have made a significant move towards the use of fuels other than gasoline. - faithhealer, on 10/11/2007, -5/+53Doesn't seem very ambitious, does it. I guess it's better than nothing--the Republicans refused to raise fuel standards the whole 12 years they controlled congress.
- RodgerE1, on 10/11/2007, -4/+46I get 35 MPG now on my 99 Honda Civic and it has 120,000 miles on it.
- plucas, on 10/11/2007, -1/+43Seriously. 35MPG in 13 years? How bold! America should be leading the way, not doing a bad job of playing catch-up.
- Grumps, on 10/11/2007, -4/+41it cant be 35 mpg by 2020. We'll be driving Tesla Roadster v5 by then. Go for electric!
- Rodalli, on 10/11/2007, -9/+46This is too little too late. Hooray for our impotent congress. :(
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -11/+47It bloody amazes me when Ford goes on TV and brags about most of their cars having 25mpg. Um, in 100 years they have only improved millage by 10 mpg? I just sit and laugh...
- albrad84, on 10/11/2007, -3/+35This legislation is terrible. Any car company that doesn't get their cars up to 35mpg by 2020 will be out of business anyway. And beyond this, the bill basically decides that ethanol is the fuel of the future, despite the fact that most people believe that it has too many problems (not enough land area to produce enough of it along with a sure increase in the price of staple crops such as corn)
1. "Requires that half of the new cars manufactured by 2015 be capable of running on 85 percent ethanol or biodiesel fuels."
2. "A requirement to produce 36 billion gallons a year of ethanol, as a substitute for gasoline, by 2022, a sevenfold increase over production in 2006. Ethanol would be made from corn and cellulosic sources such as prairie grass and wood chips." - gjunkie, on 10/11/2007, -13/+42It's really amazing, isn't it? Oil companies make $111 billion in profits last year, and republicans refuse to tax them just $29 billion over the next TEN years to pay for renewable forms of energy.... makes me sick to my stomach.
- prisoner24601, on 10/11/2007, -2/+23It's actually amazing that the manufacturers are complaining at such a mild increase. Plug-In Hybrids/Parallel Hybrids would easily get them past this hurdle. The work done by enthusiasts just by themselves with Plug-in conversions of the Toyota Prius or Ford Escape Hybrid prove the idea. The GM Volt and Saturn Vue Plug-In concepts are great examples of what is ready to be done right now. It's a simple matter to just use a little more of the battery technology they are *already* using for the hybrids on the market today and make you able to charge the car from wall power in your garage each night. The next day you get 20 or 30 miles of "pure electric" drive and use ZERO gallons of gas. All the advantages of an electric car with none of the weaknesses. It's tragic that they haven't released them already, but since cars that are all-electric drive have such a simple drivetrain (electric motors last an incredibly long time) I suspect manufacturers just haven't really wanted to bring them out because they defeat "planned obsolescence." The best part is that plug-in hybrids are a great example of a technology that *absolutely* cannot be counter-argued with the (sadly common) nonsense that "electric cars just move pollution elsewhere but don't reduce it." Even if that were true (and it's not!) a parallel hybrid that was *never* plugged-in would still get far better mileage than a serial hybrid, much less a standard car.
The Saturn Vue Plug-In will be a fantastic demonstrator of this. The exact figures are still pending, but:
27 highway mpg for standard (available today)
32 highway mpg for hybrid generation 1 (a proven 30% improvement with the "mild hybrid" or "belt drive" version available today)
39 highway mpg for hybrid generation 2 (an expected 45% improvement with the "dual-mode hybrid" planned to ship for the 2008 model, Saturn's announced estimate)
70 effective mpg for plug-in hybrid (an expected 250% improvement with proposed plug-in, Saturn's announced estimate, quoting Troy Clarke, GM North America President) We can do this with *existing* technology. We can do this TODAY. - inactive, on 10/11/2007, -6/+24Meanwhile in 2020 Toyota with 80mpg cars will be buying both Ford and GM, and selling them for scrap.
- cybermort, on 10/11/2007, -5/+2135 MPG by 2020.... more than 10 ***** years. WEAK!!!
- daleeburg, on 10/11/2007, -2/+18by 2020 i sure hope we are running on something other then fossil fuels.
- diggernaught, on 10/11/2007, -5/+19Why do I care, I as a consumer will buy a vehicle that has good mileage. I don't need the governemt to pass legislation for me. Next it will be, governmet pass bills that require people to drink liquids and breathe air - we do that to live. Pointless politics.
- sjug, on 10/11/2007, -6/+20About time.. but too small of an increase..
Need to bump it above 40/45, but the domestic auto market is just about dead already.
Bring back the electric car! - Hittman6, on 10/11/2007, -3/+16The headline is inaccurate. The senate isn't going to boost the mileage. They're going to pass laws demanding that other people do it. They could just sit back and let the market take care of it, but no, they're legislators, so they have to legislate.
- Retsep, on 10/11/2007, -22/+34@Fighterspj: A Prius due to its Nickel battery is extremely un-environmenrally friendly. The mine in Canada where the nickel is mined has a dead zone so large that NASA has used it to train astronauts for moon missions.
By 2020 mpg will be better, or a cheaper fuel will be used so it won't matter. The market will demand it, congress should stay out of this and let the market take its course, once fuel reaches a high enough cost people will demand these types of vehicles more and more. A government in which production choices are managed by the government is called communism, that's not what we do in America.
Furthermore it's not as if people don't want fuel efficient cars, but right now they are just simply not economical. The extra cost of the car, insurance, and repairs out weigh the fuel saved. Certainly this will be fixed with new technology, but right now it isn't there yet. Additionally why do most of these cars look like Jetsons mobiles? Make a Yukon that gets 50mpg and people will buy it, make a small ridiculously looking car like a Honda Insight and you aren't going to capture the market. Ford has an Escape hybrid that gets mid 30's mpg, that's where this should be headed, desirable cars that get good gas mileage, but they need to be cheaper before it will gain wide acceptance. The market will surely want this, so just let it happen. - Shao00, on 10/11/2007, -4/+16This is a pathetic excuse for an energy bill. No wonder the congress has a lower approval rating then president ***** for brains....
- llamabox, on 10/11/2007, -6/+17Why do people not understand that corporations DO NOT PAY TAXES? They merely pass the increase down the line to the consumer as a price increase or fire people or lower wages. I hate it that Democrats pull the big "tax the evil corporations" line all the time and people fall for it.
- 3n7r0py, on 10/11/2007, -9/+19Typical masturbatory "legislation" whose only purpose is to showcase just how sad, pathetic, corrupt, inept and fascist our "elected" officials and government are.
- OswaldKenobi, on 10/11/2007, -11/+21Let's celebrate! This is an industry that has shown absolutely no innovation with the internal combustion engine since its creation. In 13 years, we should have cars that can achieve 100mpg or more via gasoline or other fuels.
- diggless, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10your referring to the Sudbury, Ontario plant.
The factory has been in production for a century - it's customers have little control over what they do. This includes the 0.4% share Toyota is using for their entire line of vehicles.
this includes any stainless steel they use in non hybrid cars. Or nickel for plating. - flipmoe, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8The funny thing is that American companies compete in the EU market and provide cars with much better fuel effiicency than they do in the US Market.
I agree that it's not the gov't who needs the largest change. It's all of the people buying Yukons, Hummers, Excursions, Etc and assuming that they can continue to buy those truck-o-potomuses ad infinitum. - spillingvoid, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10No we should all get motorcycles. I put a hydrogen producing system on mine and get some 70 MPG ALL THE TIME. Not just when I'm running on battery power. Plus I look cool. (BRRROMMM BROOOMMM..... its supposed to be engine noises). this new comment system sucks
- schuder, on 10/11/2007, -4/+12When we have the capacity to easily go as high as 50 mpg right now, why not introduce 50 mpg within the next year or two, and then keep the bars going higher. The Dems keep ***** it up, stop digging this *****. This is why Congress is held in lower regards than Bush...
- inhaler, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9Dugg down because of "Ford doing somethign right." The American auto industry has abused the American consumer for far too long now, that's why people are driving Hondas, Toyotas, and Volkswagon's now. Unless something revolutionary happens, you will never see me drive a GM or Ford car again.
- inhaler, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8It's obvious that people who use the cliched phrase, "It's obvious" are pretentious and have no idea what they're talking about. Oswald was probably using hyperbole instead of actually assuming that cars could reach 100 mpg by now.
- Lionhart, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7$29 billion in taxes on oil companies translates into at the very least $29 billion more spent by US consumers on gas. When you tax the oil companies they just raise gas prices to cover the tax.
- bemenaker, on 10/11/2007, -3/+102020 WTF? Hey asshats in Congress, get off your ass and do something realistic. MORONS
- i64X, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Exactly - that's what makes CRXs fun as hell to drive. They aren't weighted down with all that crap. It's sad that it's almost scary to drive one now a days with all of the jerkoffs in their 6000 lb Hummer H2's driiving around who don't think they need to pay attention to anyone else since they're so "invincible."
Everyone is digging down the comments from the Europeans bashing us Americans, but I agree with them. We need to go to smaller cars if we want to save money on transportation - and not count on cheaper gas. Hell when I first started driving only 9 years ago gas was 99 cents a gallon. Not even close anymore and it's not going to get any better. I choose to drive small cars because I like them (currently own and Acura RSX-S), as well as a 400cc "scooter" that I ride to work when it's nice out, and at 30+ mpgs in the car and 70+ mpgs on the scooter my 90 mile round-trip commute every day doesn't really matter much.
Want to save money on gas? Don't drive something that gets 15 mpgs. - jakeg, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8let's think about this for a sec, shall we? if the oil companies are taxed an extra $29 billion, who do you think is going to end up paying for it?
every single tax levied by the government is, in the end, a tax on individual citizens. period. seems to me the time to get nauseated is when a tax like this *does* pass, not when it doesn't. - keyboardduder, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9They complain just to heighten the drama. Theyre all in it together. this is a ***** stunt to make us happy with slow progress.
- drlha, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9To get 35mpg we're not talking about Hybrids though, we're just talking about cars that are not badly designed. I currently has a car that gets above 35 mpg on the freeway (a Honda Civic), and other Hondas I have owned (Accords for example, so this is not just for small cars) also get similar mileage. The US car industry just needs to get its act together in terms on not building ***** engines.
- TubaTechno, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8You're right, being able to use BioDiesel and having hybrids wasn't that innovative.....
on a side node.....i hate this new commenting system... - iceperson, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7and thus the reason these "mandated" mileages are a waste of time. The market will force companies to innovate. The ones who don't won't sell many cars...
- Charlotte_Web, on 10/11/2007, -0/+635 MPG is an average, across the manufacturer's entire line of vehicles.
That means that for every 20 MPG SUV the auto maker wants to sell, it needs to sell a corresponding 50 MPG economy car (or more likely, two 43 MPG cars).
It doesn't sound like a lofty goal, but at least it's a start.
The bill seems a little counter-productive, though. I'm sure the MPG rating is for engines running pure petroleum. And yet the bill mandates more E85-ready engines; E85 is LESS fuel efficient than straight petroleum, not to mention the fact that the price of corn will rise across the board. But, at least with E85, we decrease (slightly) our dependence on foreign oil. - rebrad, on 10/11/2007, -8/+14This new comment system sucks.
- dshPls, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7I just got a new Civic, my mpg on the highway is 38ish, and it's not a hybrid! Super powerful too, unless you carry a lot of fat people or a refrigerator in it..
- thcobbs, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9It's obvious you don't understand the internal combustion engine or the developments that have been made in the last few decades to greatly improve efficiency. You also don't understand the risks involved in pushing development of such a ubiquitous, controlled explosive device too fast.
- flaterates, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5"By 2020 mpg will be better, or a cheaper fuel will be used" - Cheaper fuel? Bio fuel- more expensive. Hydrogen- more expensive.
I think you're waiting for those flying cars that never came about. - alpha94, on 10/11/2007, -4/+9It's not right to look at one factor. Have you considered the weight and power of cars has gone up a whole lot in 100 years? There's a tonne of accessories that need to be run and safetly equipment. I think that having the milage we do have in the cars with all that crap jammed into them isn't that bad. Consumers always have a choice of vehicles. You can get a base model Escape that gets the same milage as a 4WD hybrid, it's your choice.
- swordedge, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6be happy you got anything. I'm in favor of a mandatory .25 mph fleet average improvement every year. Yes, that a quarter of a mile per gallon. Had they done that in the early 80's, they'd already be over 30 mpg.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6Since it throws SUVs in to the CAFE standards it will actually have a huge impact.
- faithhealer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7@ChillEnt: How is "refused" incorrect? If they wanted to raise the standards, they would have.
- thcobbs, on 10/11/2007, -4/+8"$111 billion in profits"
Yes, but they operate on a profit margin of 7-10%. The $111 billion in profits is more a sign of how oil hungry the USA is... not how greedy the oil companies are. - obrysii, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4What about 4-door sedans that get 34mpg when they are quite old with plenty of miles on them?
- Godlike, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7We mastered the internal combustion engine long ago. It is not impossible or even difficult to build a 4 cylinder/4 stroke vehicle that gets 35 to 40 MPG. I don't think digg is very receptive to the kind of comments regarding who is in bed with who, but I know how ICE's work and I know that it is not going to be difficult in any format whatsoever to acheive this standard. Any comments to the contrary from Detroit are all complete, total and unbridled BS.
- chrismgtis, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5There are a few possibilities here as usual.
* They didn’t do their research, can’t prove it is possible (if it is) and manufacturers will say, “it’s too hard to do”. Smack!
* It will get approved and large business that makes money for the government will complain and it will get smacked down.
* It won’t get approved because (read directly above).
In the end, the government does the usual stupid thing which basically amounts to going to court with a crack pipe. -
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