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- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -16/+119If Bush gets Pardoned, it will only make the U.S look even worse in foreign eyes
- ProfBagelwood, on 10/12/2007, -15/+101I think that this very much deserves attention. Whether or not one supports the measure is irrelevant to its newsworthiness since it's such a big issue, and people should know about it so that they can come to their own conclusions. With that in mind, I think it'd be noble no matter what "side" you're on to stick a link to this Digg page on your web sites; I think it deserves it.
Personally, I think that he should go to court. If he's found innocent, then fine, but he should at least have to appear before a court and be heard there.
For those who would like to sign the petition by the way, here you go:
http://pol.moveon.org/dontpardon/?id=8810-7432485-Mxqm8Nm2IcQcP8DWOhS68g&t=1 - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+62Your opinion of the president should be irrelevant. This bill should not be passed, congress and the president should work independantly.
- Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -4/+46Somebody get into the White House and give Bush a blowjob so we can impeach him! It's the only way!!
- masamunecyrus, on 10/12/2007, -6/+46Ugh. I think I could stand for an ~open source government~ about now.
- CloakandSwagger, on 10/12/2007, -12/+50We all know Bush would only appear in court if they custom built a dual stand for Cheney to sit alongside, and he didn't have to be sworn in, and they didn't record any of his testimony.
You know, like they did during the 9/11 commission's inquiry. - taotehue, on 10/12/2007, -8/+38we care what foreigners think because we have to interact with them on all kinds of levels.
PR DOES MATTER.
The President broke the law. I believe that this, among some of his other acts, constitute "high crimes" and he should be impeached, and prosecuted for those crimes. This, of course, will never happen. - taotehue, on 10/12/2007, -6/+35If congress grows some testicles, they can impeach him. and he should stand trial, without pardon, for his actions. Unfortunately, Cheney would Pardon him, though he should also be indicted for impeachment.
- jsd8cc, on 10/12/2007, -4/+31A pardon? Don't you have to be convicted of something in a court of law to be pardoned?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+33OMG OMG THE TRUTH! QUICK MARK IT INNACURATE!
The sheep don't believe news marked innacurate, yet they'll believe news like "we know there is WMD in Iraq" - gwolf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23I don’t know what worries me more; the fact that we aren’t living in a democracy or that they aren’t even putting up the pretense any more.
- spurtle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21And Clinton had his day in Congress, now it's Bush's turn. God, 14 years of this BS. I thought this bastard was supposed to bring respectability to the Presidency not make it more of a joke that it was. Different party, same old *****.
- ElectricKetchup, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22As far as I know, you cannot have a law override the constitution. Wasn't that the whole point of having a constituion anyways?
- treelovinhippie, on 10/12/2007, -4/+20This is the problem with giving so much power to a single person.
If a maniac could convince the population to vote him in as president, that maniac could then utilise all the government resources to manipulate the populous into believeing whatever he desired so as to achieve a personal goal... perhaps invading other countries for family pride or perhaps for the lure of riches from oil.
... maybe what I've just said isn't so metaphorical after all
:) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Someone should start a website called getbushablowjob.com and get people to sign up as willing to give Bush a blowjob so he can be impeached.
I'm a guy, but i'd blow him just to kick him out of office - Arramol, on 10/12/2007, -3/+18"Talk to your boy Clinton about how he did it for money one day."
I love how Republicans' response to things like this is, "Yeah, well Clinton did it too!" The fact that one president committed a wrong doesn't make it acceptable for future presidents. If the best defense you can come up for Bush is to point out the wrongdoings of previous presidents, maybe it's time to acknowledge that Bush is seriously screwing some things up. - kevinmotel, on 10/12/2007, -10/+25@ harry
shut up. you and your anti-clinton *****. he's been out of office 6 years. welcome to the here and now. this isn't about clinton. this is about bush. just, shut up. - Araya213, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18Funny how they are rushing this through before the mid-term elections.
- cephelotron, on 10/12/2007, -5/+19contents of my private message on the petition:
It is imperative that the Senate not pardon President Bush for his illegal wiretapping of U.S. citizens without any known or suspected connection to any terrorist activities due to the alarming precedent that it would set. It is important that this administration, as well as future administrations, understand that they are not above the law or the Constitution. These people must understand that they will be held accountable for their actions just as any other citizen would be. If we do not keep the powers of the executive in check, we may find later that we no longer have that capacity. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16Impeachment would do nothing of value...
Revolution would work wonders though - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16"The Constitution is just a piece of paper"
The same can be said for money, the deed to my house, and the title for my car.
Personally, I think some pieces of paper carry a great deal of authority. - Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18Silly, you only have to answer up if you get a hummer in the White House then try to keep everyone in the world from knowing about it!
- IOIIOOO, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13To those that think that warrantless wire taps are ok in the name of safety:
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin - rumor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13it wouldn't be held in secret if they didn't think they were doing something wrong, or that people would call them out on their *****.
as was said in V for Vendetta, "People should not be scared of their governments. Governments should be scared of their people."
officials should not have immunity to the law. its unconstitutional. - Toshibi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13It's time for the American people to quit being so damn willing to give up their rights and to stand up to government. We have allowed too much BS for far too long...
If our representatives set into motion this pardon for such heinous acts then I think it will set the stage for a complete authoritarian government...I mean, even more authoritarian than it already is.
Digg people, DIGG!
"The basis of our government being the opinion of the people, the very first object should be to keep that right; and were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter." ~ Thomas Jefferson - N00F, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16Nobody should be above the law. The president is human and is faliable. More over he is subject to the human failings of being corrupted by power. If he can act without accountablility, what stops him from acting upon his slightest whim? May as well nuke North Korea now!
- TGMD, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18moveon.org I understand, they have a clear bias... but the ACLU?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12No way. Not only would that make Dick Cheney president, but it would also create a lot of sympathy for a man who deserves none.
- nadocollin, on 10/12/2007, -8/+19Definitely in agreement... Regardless of how you feel about Bush or his policies on wiretapping, this deserves substantial national attention. Digg is good place to start.
- Rodzirra, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16Well, this "limited government" crap didn't work. Can we try anarchy now?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14that was supposed to be a Bush quote, but I forgot the "- George W Bush" part
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12"They that would sacrifice essential liberties for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security"
- Benjamin Franklin - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12so... CNN and MSNBC aren't biased?
wait... do you actually watch the news? - fantasticFlan, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16"If Bush gets Pardoned, it will only make the U.S look even worse in foreign eyes"
So what? We need to hold this guy accountable because it's the right thing to do, not because of how it'll make us look if we don't. - ricree, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10"Personally, if it leads to the U.S. being safe, then I for one think he should have the right to OK wiretapping of anyone in the country."
How exactly can you "make someone safe." Sooner or later, we're all going to die, the best we can do is prolong that period. We are fortunate enough to live in a society with a tremendous amount of freedoms which, quite frankly, are not shared by a lot of people around the world. It seems to me that preserving something so precious is worth a bit of risk. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14can anyone cite an instance an online petition has worked.
- geekee, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10@Greattastic
you rtfa, especially what you quoted. It says that the new law would make legal what Bush is currently doing. This does not pardon Bush from what he did before the law was enacted.
Summary is inaccurate - IOIIOOO, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8gtiness - Times were CERTAINLY different in Franklin's time: they faced death at the hands of the worlds most powerful empire. But instead of backing down for fear of death, they stood up feeling that death would be preferable to giving up core freedoms.
Do you really think the threat you live under with muslim extremists even compares to that the founders of our country lived under from England?
Get real. - ProfBagelwood, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I say we open our eyes and realize that MoveOn.org is able to point out *so many* things because there are so many things to be pointed out; perhaps they are able to so effortlessly and endlessly depict how wrong the math problem adds up because it's wrong.
Seriously though. I don't understand why anybody is still sticking to Bush's side. He has approximately zero positive accomplishments and he absolutely does not represent conservative or Christian ideals.
When is enough going to be enough? What will it take his last supporters to leave his side? - gwolf, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11We never lived in a democracy ... we live in a Republic. Technically, it's a Constitutional Federal Republic.
The Soviet Union was a republic, Communist China is a republic, every dictatorship in recent history has the organizational form of a republic. What kind of republic do you want to live in? - ProfBagelwood, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10To those of you who don't like that I linked to the ACLU's review of the matter or quoted a MoveOn.org newsletter, who feel that I've only presented on side of the story...
Perhaps you can help me. I was unable to find anything on the GOP web site, FOX news, or any other right-leaning site that brought this issue to the forefront, but perhaps you'll have better luck then me. (Or perhaps you'll add a post to your blog and link us there.) I'm all for hearing both sides of the story, but the other side is being conspicuously quiet about all of this. ;)
Also, I don't think there's too much to slant here. "Senate is trying to pardon Bush and make the things he did and wants to continue doing legal." Fact. If you don't like that they're doing this, then great. If you do agree with them, then super. But there's not a ton of skew that you can add to that. - neptytune, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10If the president didn't do anything wrong, what does he have to worry about? I mean, he should be more than happy to stand in front of a court and say, look I'm being legal. Stand in front of the Supreme Court and let them decide, he's the one that nominated them. Or is he too scared that he actually might be indicted? (Well, he can't be indicted until after he leaves office, but still).
- Arramol, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11But I suppose you'd consider a conservative site to be completely reliable. Believe it or not, facts don't become inaccurate simply because they're posted on a site with an opinion.
- optimus008, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I'm a Republican I think this administration has gone to far, and the people of the United States are don't care anymore. All people care about now is there big screen TV,games,cares,football and all that other ***** that we buy. We are the government and people seem to forget that.
- toppgun, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9and if 2/3 of senate lets this pass, i will break down into tears in a non-metaphorical way. the anger i feel for bush/cheney/satan right now is greater than rage. my love for america is stronger than they could imagine and is unbreakable by their propaganda and manipulation. watching them do this to my, no, our country is bringing me more pain than the death of my pet when i was a kid. if this gets passed by 2/3 majority, i will break down into tears.
- ProfBagelwood, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8You aren't really comparing the need to wear seat belts and such to the "need" for secret prisons, military tribunals, torture, Big Brother-style wiretapping...are you?
And gah, desire to stay alive my foot! Stop it with the "If you don't do what Bush wants, you and your family will die!" scare tactics. - IOIIOOO, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Umm...suuuuuure. Clinton was NEVER criticised...
- MacsBaine, on 10/12/2007, -6/+13The article you link doesn't even contain the word pardon much less talk about giving Bush a pardon.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I think the most dangerous thing about "Caswyn"'s point of view is that it underestimates the cunning of terrorists. As our President is keen on reminding us: they view our media too. That said, they too know about the NSA, and the recent controversy it has created.
I for one feel it is always better to OVERestimate the abilities of our enemies. I assume that terrorists are using VoIP or other means in order to usurp the NSA.
I mean, come on- even a 14 year old knows how to request weed over the phone without providing any evidence to law enforcement. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12"The constitution is just a piece of paper"
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