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- Chromoly, on 10/12/2007, -24/+127I'd get out my grains of salt for anything coming from this article after this paragraph.
"It took 35 plus years for the majority of Americans to wake up to the fact that the assassination of JFK was a government operation. It has only take five years for MORE Americans to wake up to the fact that 9/11 was an inside job on behalf of the Neoconservative crime syndicate within the US." - satipip, on 10/12/2007, -27/+102The interesting thing about this poll is that they have done the very same poll in May 2002. And the figures then were interesting as well:
May '02 --> Oct. '06
# 08% ----> 28% "Mostly lying"
# 65% ----> 53% "Hiding something"
# 21% ----> 16% "Telling the truth"
# 06% ----> 03% "Not sure"
And this development happened within 4 years where the mainstream media didn't do anything at all to expose any potential Government involvement and its cover-up (on the contrary, they did defend the official story all the time).
That is completely unlike their style of reporting about Nixon's plumbing squad that broke into the Watergate Hotel, or about Clinton's blowjobs.
This shift of opinion happened while there was not a single "investigative journalist" that digged into 9/11 contradictions and unanswered questions....
Hail the Internet! - iTorrey, on 10/12/2007, -10/+47@Chromoly
Yeah but this poll wasn't done by the person who wrote that so I'm not sure how you can debunk one because the other - charlesnorbert, on 10/12/2007, -12/+42Mark as Inaccurate. 85 percent don't think it was faked (as the linked article says), the poll says 85% believe that the government is hiding what they knew before 9/11. It is the difference between saying that NASA blew up the Challenger space shuttle or NASA hid that it knew the O-Ring on the external tank was potentialy dangerous.
- NoahVail, on 10/12/2007, -15/+44=> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire
Its not important who brought down the Reichstag- its only important what kind of propaganda the Nazi's could create with it. For politicians, the only "facts" are what opinions people have, and what ***** they be made to believe.
Thank heavens the credibility of the people is beginning to be strained. - maiku00, on 10/12/2007, -13/+38most people probobly believe that they are hideing details that would reveal the full extent of their extreme incompetance in preventing and handeling 9/11. not that they actually were involved in the attacks.
- maiku00, on 10/12/2007, -19/+42I have doubts that all 85% think it was a crazy govt thing like in south park. Most people probobly beleive that details are being hid because our incompetant administration doesnt want the public to know about their probable massive failure to prevent it and their slow witted response the day of.
- pilot3033, on 10/12/2007, -12/+34FTA: Telling the truth 16%
Hiding something 53%
Mostly lying 28%
Not sure 3%"
The thing about polls, is that they don't do anything of value. You can get someone to blatantly contradict them self by asking the same question in two different ways.
The question "Do think the government is hiding something about 9/11?" (if it was even specific" is a firggen no brainier. 53% is not surprising at all, in fact I thought it would be more. But "hiding something" does NOT equal "Reject official story". In order to draw that conclusion you would have to ask "Do you believe the official story?". And even then you have wiggle room.
We get the whole truth? Nah, but it had nothing to do with the cause of 9/11, just the failure to prevent it. - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+25I just saw this video, and thought it was very well done. 9/11 Press For the Truth.
It's about the research done by families of some of the ones killed in the world trade center, particularly the four women, now single parents, known as the "Jersey Sisters'"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250&q=Press+for+Truth&hl=en
Its also available with bit torrent:
http://www.mininova.org/search/?search=9/11%20Press%20for%20Truth - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+26all i can say is god bless the internet ;)
- ISIfunded911, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22This poll does not surprise me at all, especially after having heard what the families of the people who died in the World Trade Center said in the documentary "9/11 Press for Truth", about their effort to get all the truth about 9/11 from the government:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250&q=Press+for+Truth&hl=en
They said that 60% of the questions they wrote down never got answered. Neither by the government, nor by the 9/11 Commission, nor by the media.
That is a lot of hiding.
What to think of it?
I am not a specialist, so one option is to listen to whitleblowers, like Sibel Edmonds (ex-FBI):
http://www.justacitizen.org/
And the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition: http://www.nswbc.org/
Many of them now think that covering-up so much can only mean one thing: complicity. - Niffer, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23Everyone here seems to miss the point that this poll asked if you trusted everything your government said about 9/11, not whether or not there was a conspiracy to commit 9/11 on the part of the government. Of all the things that happened on that day, you have to assume something in the official story is not honest, because what government admits that they ***** up that bad? There are a lot of questions about who had information about the attacks and who didn't act on that information to stop it. The Bush camp didn't even want to have an official investigation into what happened. When they were pressured to testify, they didn't do it under oath. Who does that unless they know something and aren't being honest? I say the other 16% need to get with it because we will never fix the mistakes if we can't see them.
- Shadar, on 10/12/2007, -9/+26Although they won't put it on a bumpersticker Neocons are more closely related to Nazi's than just about any other recent political party.
- goffy59, on 10/12/2007, -11/+27This is exactly what bush did. I think the Nazi's and bush administration got a lot in common as far as strategy and tactics goes.
- equitium, on 10/12/2007, -10/+25Poll must have been taken at a college.
- ne0shell, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17You know I'd buy the "bumbling govt" excuses if it weren't for the fact that our civil liberties, constitution and everything which makes America great are being wiped out every time these "mistakes" happen. I don't give a ***** if they are all low grade morons, the assault on my country needs to stop, period. The corporate mass media is controlled - that's the fact and yes I have first hand knowledge of that from working in the media. Just because Fox and CNN make the few of you left who still worship Bush and Co think you're the popular majority doesn't make it true. Let's see what happens in November and God help the govt if the Diebold machines steal elections again. If the majority of America really does support this administration, it's policies and it's actions then we're completely *****.
- ZenMojo, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Despite the 13 diggs on JHawk's post, the pancaking explanation used in the Popular Mechanics story was debunked by the NIST report.
http://wtc.nist.gov/
Prison Planet...Popular Mechanics...true believers...skeptics. Two sides of the anti-pragmatic coin. - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15@ISIfunded911
Yeah that was a great film I just saw it today, and included that link in comments too.
I bet half of these bush-lie apologists wouldn't even watch it, for fear of seeing the truth! - Pacotheparrot, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15Oh dude this is totally an unbiased website. I mean who wouldn't believe a site called infowars.com which has links to 9/11 conspiracy theories.
I'm not saying something isn't fishy but can we at least get some fair information. - archiesteel, on 10/12/2007, -12/+22The point is not necessarily that they were responsible for actually organizing 9/11, but rather that the population thinks they are hiding something...I don't know, like, their own incompetence in preventing it AND how they recuperated it to push their political agenda.
The other thing is that, when you cultivate a culture of secrecy (like this administration has since before 9/11), it's not a surprise that people give credence to conspiracy theories. Being open is the best policy against this. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -16/+26"you can see what look like small detonations"
"Looks like" does not equal "is". You say there is no explanation for this, however, there is: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5
Puffs Of Dust
CLAIM: As each tower collapsed, clearly visible puffs of dust and debris were ejected from the sides of the buildings. An advertisement in The New York Times for the book Painful Questions: An Analysis Of The September 11th Attack made this claim: "The concrete clouds shooting out of the buildings are not possible from a mere collapse. They do occur from explosions." Numerous conspiracy theorists cite Van Romero, an explosives expert and vice president of the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology, who was quoted on 9/11 by the Albuquerque Journal as saying "there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse." The article continues, "Romero said the collapse of the structures resembled those of controlled implosions used to demolish old structures."
FACT: Once each tower began to collapse, the weight of all the floors above the collapsed zone bore down with pulverizing force on the highest intact floor. Unable to absorb the massive energy, that floor would fail, transmitting the forces to the floor below, allowing the collapse to progress downward through the building in a chain reaction. Engineers call the process "pancaking," and it does not require an explosion to begin, according to David Biggs, a structural engineer at Ryan-Biggs Associates and a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) team that worked on the FEMA report.
Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air--along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse--was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception."
Demolition expert Romero regrets that his comments to the Albuquerque Journal became fodder for conspiracy theorists. "I was misquoted in saying that I thought it was explosives that brought down the building," he tells PM. "I only said that that's what it looked like."
Romero, who agrees with the scientific conclusion that fire triggered the collapses, demanded a retraction from the Journal. It was printed Sept. 22, 2001. "I felt like my scientific reputation was on the line." But emperors-clothes.com saw something else: "The paymaster of Romero's research institute is the Pentagon. Directly or indirectly, pressure was brought to bear, forcing Romero to retract his original statement." Romero responds: "Conspiracy theorists came out saying that the government got to me. That is the farthest thing from the truth. This has been an albatross around my neck for three years." - Knife720, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14At first I thought that this would be a huge gain for the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, but then I realized that 53% of people only think that they were "hiding something," a vague claim that could cover just about anything.
I don't trust the government 100% myself, and am sure that they are hiding something, but nothing to the magnitude of what the conspiracy theorists state. - mav451, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18I think it is still odd that the public, nor I (as an engineer) has heard an EXTENSIVE engineering explanation. No watered-down, over-spun *****. Just plain engineering, with numbers and analysis. I find it odd that as an ASCE member, that this issue was never raised by ASCE since the initial "investigations" (*****) took place.
There's something called the ASCE Code of Ethics, that is NOT being followed here:
"Engineers uphold and advance the integrity, honor and dignity of the engineering profession by:
1. Using their knowledge and skill for the enhancement of human welfare.
2. Being honest and impartial and serving with fidelity the public, their employers and clients." - (this is just the first 2)
Is there a reason the engineers have been quiet? What the hell is going on? - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Awesome link...thanks! Now I can watch it a fourth time!
But I wish they had used the correct picture of the 'hole' in the Pentagon.
They used the later one after the roof facade had already collapsed, rather than the earlier one, that clearly showed the 16' hole and no other damage.
Still, it was great that they brought the issue back to the public's attention...at least the people who watch SouthPark. - ISIfunded911, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13@WaterDragon
I wonder how they will react to all the revelations about the role of the Pakistani secret services (ISI). The ISI created Al-Qaeda with the CIA, as was revealed by the British:
"Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians."
Robin Cook - former British Foreign Secretary (he "died" one month after he revealed this big secret).
And the ISI sent money to Mohamed Atta.
And the FBI heard an ISI agent in the US, who was buying weapons for Bin Laden, say about the WTC before 9/11: "these towers are going to fall". Of course (?), the FBI did nothing.
All this is in "9/11 Press for Truth".
The last revelation comes from the mouth of an FBI agent. - bcdowell, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9@jamessavik:
"After all the ***** that happened that day, building #7 was the last thing on anyones mind."
Yes, but what about 5 years later ?
And more importantly, this was the official government report !! Should not every possible detail of what actually objectively -occurred- be put into it, if only for historical purposes ??
I maintain that the government owes us a hell of an explanation. There are so many crucial pieces of evidence that they are witholding from us, so many things that have been overlooked, and so many things that just don't make sense that skepticism is the rational course !!
This is one of the few cases, in my mind, where skepticism and conspiracy != tinfoil hat; the official story is so full of holes that to believe its every word is as absurd as believing that the earth is 6,000 years old and that noah's ark is sitting on top of a mountain in siberia. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -18/+27why is everyone an idiot? im serious, someone answer me
- starfighter01, on 10/12/2007, -21/+30You believe the presidential approval ratings? I guess you believe the president won a fair election too.
- babbling, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12They wouldn't need to keep it secret, so long as anyone who spoke out was branded a "conspiracy theorist".
The government doesn't even deny that they are "hiding" something - they confiscated tapes of the plane hitting the pentagon and haven't released those. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15Our society caters to followers rather than thinkers.
- bcdowell, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11indeed. They did realease "a tape" ...
unfortunately, it was a tape that we already had. In addition, this 5 frame piece of non-evidence does not show the plane whatsoever. Which I find to be surprising, considering the size of the plane.
All we are asking for is more footage that -clearly- and -indisputably- shows a boeing 767 smashing into the side of the building. Because honestly, from the evidence we have, it does not seem logical that such damage could have been inflicted by a jumbo jet. Too many things don't make sense, and at the same time, the government is witholding those other tapes for no good reason...
If nothing else, it smells fishy. - nixfu, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9
ROFL at digg.com...... you people are nutzo conspiracy kooks totally out of touch with reality and the rest of the known world.. - rodrigo74, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Scientific poll: You can fool 90% of the people with polls, to push any agenda, as long as you know how to make the questions and which persons to ask.
- patience, on 10/12/2007, -13/+20http://www.madweird.com/animation-videos/south-park-1009-911-episode/
Full episode - musicmantrs, on 10/12/2007, -8/+15If you get past that propaganda page and go to the poll information (one with less propaganda at least), and scroll down to the bottom, they polled 983 Americans...
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/13469 - TheLastProphet, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Wake up... or at least read.
Operation Northwoods:
http://www.ealchemy.org/northwoods.pdf
PNAC:
http://www.ealchemy.org/PNAC.pdf
False-Flag attacks and imperialism are documented.
Get a clue... please.
Bush is an idiot - UNTIL you read PNAC.
Katrina was a disaster - UNTIL you see the precedents set.
9/11 seemed tragic - UNTIL you read Northwoods. - aliengoods, on 10/12/2007, -11/+18@CopperFalcon
Don't give me that line of BS. Everyone knows of the dinosaur conspiracy created by radical left-wing scientists to support their evolution sham.
Seriously though, this was the response I got from a religious zealot a few years back on an evolution 'discussion'. The irony is, with thinking like that, its amazing he hasn't already been an example of natural selection (or deselection in this case). - Lumiras, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12Well, OK, maybe 84% of people don't believe the government's official story, but this does not mean we should jump to conclusions and believe that 84% of the American public believe stupid ***** stories like Loose Change.
I personally don't think the government has given us the whole story, and the truth is they probably won't give us the whole picture for decades. Hell, we're still learning stuff about WWII. But, is the government keeping back information about an elaborate plot that had to have involved thousands of people, yet nobody at all has spoke up about it? No, but I do think some people inside our government should really be held accountable for the terrible events that happened that day. It was obvious that before 9/11, our security was slacking, and we were severely wounded because of it. Somebody wasn't doing their job - texasmojo, on 10/12/2007, -10/+17So every poll is useless because they are by definition a logical fallacy?
We need to stop this "Bush is Hitler! The Democrats as Socialists!" mindset. They've got us rooting for the home team, meanwhile the fans never notice the game is fixed! I guess if people can think that pro wrestling is real then they can believe this faked us vs them cheerleading is real too.
The Democrats are absolutely no better than the Republicans in this mess. Do you REALLY think that if we had a Democratic president/house/senate that things would be better?
It was Johnson that gave us Vietnam and Carter was arguably the worst president I've lived under.
We need REAL change in this country, not Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. - gmerin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7no cite of the study; no info about the sample size; no info about the study methodology; therefore all ***** and no digg.
- mikesherov, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7I thought the most recent South Park said that only 25% of us Americans were retards. Now that number is 84%? [/sarcasm]
No, seriously, this poll and specifically the conclusions that the article draw are ridiculously flawed. There is no 9/11 conspiracy simply because, as Maddox says, the people making these charges aren't dead yet.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons
Also, any evidence used to disprove the conspiracy theories is often just discredited by the theorists as coming from an unreliable source. How can you prove the conspiracy theories are wrong to someone who discredits your sources simply because they prove the conspiracy theory wrong? - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8@Cl1mh4224rd
I won't dignify the rest of your lies and true-believer BS with a response.
But as to your whiney excuse:
"No demolitions expert has ever heard the term "pull" used to describe explosive demolition."
The public statement that they had to 'pull' it was not made by any demolition expert, or engineer, but was made by Larry Silverstein, the owner of the site.
Naturally, he didn't use the official terms.
I'm familiar with the bogus claims you quote, in your ongoing strategy to breed confusion and conformity , to keep people from thinking.
Crawl back under your rock with all the others who are afraid of reason and common sense. - 500freestyle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5This seems misleading.
54% Percent believe the government is hiding something, but when does the government ever tell us the whole story?
This doesn't mean they believe it was a conspiracy, just that they believe there's more to it than we are being told. - Cl1mh4224rd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7"You know I'd buy the "bumbling govt" excuses if it weren't for the fact that our civil liberties, constitution and everything which makes America great are being wiped out every time these "mistakes" happen. I don't give a ***** if they are all low grade morons, the assault on my country needs to stop, period."
The reason for this is pretty simple. I kind of hate to say it, but... Right now there's one group of people more bumbling than the government: the U.S. citizens. Whether we're wasting our time on nutty, baseless conspiracy theories, or vegging out on the couch watching Oprah or "wrastlin'", we, as a whole, are letting this happen to us. - bitteroldcoot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5If anyone is interested in getting beyond the hype, here is the actual poll questions and answers. No spin, just the data.
PDF warning!!!!
http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20061010_poll_results.pdf - elitexero, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Theres a way to make your crap seem like it isn't crap... call it a 'scientific poll'
How the hell can a poll be scientific? It cant, its just another way to trick idiots into believing what you say. - WaterDragon, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"Despite the 13 diggs on JHawk's post, the pancaking explanation used in the Popular Mechanics story was debunked by the NIST report."
Anyhow, that particular part of the whole made-up oficial story certainly wasn't meant to explain the 'collapse' of building#7. it was only a few stories tall, compared to the twin towers....but it had the same kind of textbook-perfect collapse.
And the owner of the site even was captured by a news camera saying they had to 'pull' #7. Miraculously, the required demolition charges ( which he clearly was referring to) were somehow already in place. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -13/+18http://www.mininova.org/tor/446155
- DrLawyer, on 10/12/2007, -7/+12RE BLizzardice comment "Only a moron would would think that the buildings were manually demolished."
I compel you, all of you, to explain why the 9/11 Commission report made no mention of the fact that building 7 even fell. Seriously. There was no mention of building 7 in the report. None.
See: http://911research.wtc7.net/post911/commission/report.html
I've read the commission report. I've read the book "Omissions and Distortions". There are some serious omissions and distortions. I am writing a paper right now for a fourth year honours thesis on 911 conspiracy theories at Canada's top university, and while I am not convinced it was a conspiracy by the Bush administration, I am convinced that there are some tremendously troubling issues that are not being addressed. Of course, many will raise the argument that, like Holocaust deniers, acknowledging and responding to their argument gives them a platform and so forth. I say bullocks.
Check it out, kiddies. Read it for yourselves.
-The Doctor -
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