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Real 9/11 Heroes Expose How Giuliani Short-Changed and Endangered the City

prospect.org — New York City firefighters are out to set the record straight on Rudy Giuliani's 9/11 legacy. More accurately, they are campaigning to expose how Giuliani short-changed and endangered the city's 11,000 firefighters over the course of two terms, and then went on to exploit their heroism during and after the 9/11 attacks for his own advantage.

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  • ooloo, on 10/11/2007, -165/+11prospect.org = Liberal Moonbat Bait

    They bill themselves as "The American Prospect...Liberal Intelligence" ........lmfao

    Yea...like liberals have intelligence. To be a liberal you have to be totally devoid of ANY common sense.
    • Turambar, on 10/11/2007, -9/+38and to be a conservative, you have to be totally devoid of any and all moral limitations and intelligence.
    • Battleloser, on 10/11/2007, -4/+10These times, they are-a-changin'
    • AndrewDB, on 01/10/2008, -8/+43Enough with the ***** bashing of liberals. Bash on the republicans. They're the ones running the country into the damn ground.
      • Dgen_X, on 10/11/2007, -5/+12I say we bash on the moderates...the damn wafflers...
        • BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/11/2007, -2/+10They're worse than The Neutrals. I say screw the Swiss.
      • CptGiglges, on 10/11/2007, -3/+21Ah yes, to assume that liberals and conservatives would do anything different, Parties are illusions, parties disagree about almost everything... Politics are about choosing the lesser of two evils with the information you are given. The real problem at hand is that the average voter isn't give adequate information... Grow up and stop looking at it as a Liberal/Conservative thing, look at it as a System that is meant to put immoral people into office (both sides, get a clue). Any government could not survive if it wasn't for deception and immoral acts... its the same about the war... sure we could sit here and do nothing ("ignore them") but seriously compare it to child hood in a play ground... if you see someone lunging for you with their hand made into a fist.. are you just going to stand there and tie your shoe for instance... Granted it is an over simplification but the concepts of both are identical.
        • rockstarjoker, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9Ok, you're right, both political parties are really full of phonies and control freaks who are basically just gonna screw up our country no matter what their affiliation.

          But, what can we do to stop it? Please don't take that offensively, I sincerely want to know what I can do to stop this constant defilement of our country.

          We can vote for third party candidates, but they never have enough backing to make it into office. We can voice our feelings thru protest, but the media always spins this to make those who speak out look bad, so the message never gets thru.

          The system is being exploited, but the safegaurds that the founding fathers put in place for us to fight back aren't enough, or aren't working.

          How do we stop this?
          • 0xbadfood, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3A lot of people are suggesting voting for Ron Paul, because he would veto all of the nonsense the legislature keeps passing. Then people come by and say "but he'll never win!" Well you know what, who cares? Might as well try rather than give up.
        • nrobert2, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7That is one of the most insightful comments I've read on these usually reactionary boards. (I'm serious, that is not sarcasm!) Things are never as simple as they seem... and re: the source of the article, yes, it really is an extreme left-wing publication (just as a frame of reference). We all do ourselves a great dis-service by getting our "news" only from the sources that agree with our pre-conceived notions.
          • Charlotte_Web, on 10/11/2007, -7/+3Also notice that all of the articles being dugg to the front page bashing presidential candidates are only bashing the REPUBLICAN ones. Even the ones that haven't announced yet (I've seen almost half a dozen Fred Thompson articles so far this week).

            Digg leans HEAVILY to the left. This is not a source for unbiased news.

            This article makes it official:

            http://digg.com/programming/Which_sites_are_popular_in_digg_com

            TONS of politically-Left sites make the front page of Digg; virtually no politically-Right ones do.

            Just an observation....
          • queenstarsha, on 10/11/2007, -3/+3charlotte, no. it's that republicans really are worse than democrats. they're greedy, selfish, war-mongering hypocrites. i can't believe people like you let them run our country for so long.
    • TheElusiveTool, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15It seems the real problem with American politics these days is that it has turned into a spectator sport. Many people have decided they are fans of either the "Democratic" team or the "Republican" team and anything that doesn't fall within the "team beliefs" should be completely thrown out.

      There is not one right way to look at ANY situation or topic. People need to think for themselves and not just integrate verbatim their parties beliefs. It's okay to be "conservative" on some issues and "liberal" on others as long as you have a well thought out reason for being so.

      I read these stupid generalizations about political party supporters every single day on here (Liberals are crazy, conservatives are stupid, blah blah). There are crazy, stupid, brilliant, moral, immoral people all over the political spectrum and no party is the epitome of any of these traits.

      That being said, politicians are douche bags.
      • Sapulator, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Thank you! I'm sick and tired of liberal/conservative debates! It's not about right vs. left anyway! in the end it comes down to (on big issues) - do you support freedom? or one-world government? And there are democrats and republicans on both sides of this debate.
        • queenstarsha, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2i'm a big fan of freedom, but nutbag anti-UN republicans generally forget all about justice.
    • brufleth, on 10/11/2007, -4/+5Third strike. Blocked.
      • Battleloser, on 10/11/2007, -4/+2How dare you disagree with me 3 times!
        • queenstarsha, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1actually, it's perfectly valid not to waste one's time on a person whose idea of political discourse doesn't go beyond a third-grade intelligence level. i don't even give you republicans two chances to be stupid in my general direction before i hit block.
    • m0tbaillie, on 10/11/2007, -3/+12Statistically, there is a direct correlation between the level of education attained and your political affiliations.

      The higher your level of education, the more inclined you are to vote democrat.
      The poorer you are, the more inclined you are to vote democrat.
      The more marginalized you are [as an ethnic group], the more likely you are to vote democrat.

      Google if you don't believe me - this is all textbook *****.
      • michael4lsu, on 10/11/2007, -8/+3The majority of felons are democrats too.
        • JDove6, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Does that include the Libby, the Bush administation and his buddies over at Enron? Oh I guess if you can commute sentences and hide your crimes, you aren't truly a felon...
        • queenstarsha, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4what's your source on that -- limbaugh or o'reilly? fox "news," perhaps?
      • marson, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Maybe your friends let you get away with the "Google it if you don't believe me" trick but when you're debating on the internets, you need to show us a real source for your so-called "statistics.". It really doesn't matter anyway, you know what they say about statistics: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." -Benjamin Disraeli
      • 0xbadfood, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0In related news, most American university professors are from socialist countries and espouse socialist ideas to their students, and poor people and minorities like handouts.
      • Yinepuhotep, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1You forget, the higher your education in the functioning of systems, such as economics or engineering, the more likely you are to be libertarian. Hmm...I should suggest that to Dave Friedman as the subject of a paper. I think he'd be amused enough to pursue it.
    • bbqsalad, on 10/11/2007, -2/+7lmfao... brainwashed sheep. You belive everything Fox tells you huh?
    • machinegunopera, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5@ooloo
      Wow...
      That was a genuinely stupid thing to say.
      If you really think in those terms...
      I feel bad for you.

    • mwmccullough, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I hope you aren't in Southern Florida right now.
    • shinedout, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Ooloo's comment couldn't be more broad and unthought out
  • Nydas, on 10/11/2007, -15/+169Whats the matter guys? Does it upset you that your warmongering hero is being exposed for the fraud he really is? The fact that he won't make it into the oval office and start WWIII really upset you neocons, doesn't it?
    • Wartyboskfapped, on 10/11/2007, -4/+23LOL. Dead right. Smell the panic.
    • civperc, on 10/11/2007, -9/+14Ah politics, the world of double standards and hypocrisy, on BOTH sides.
      • ccheath, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1both sides of the same coin

        but what are you going to do about it?
        • 0xbadfood, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Vote for the real proponents of small government instead of the fake ones.
    • xGORDOx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I would love to know what their political affiliations are.
      Think they are registered (D)'s?
      • RussellDovey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2So which matters more to you? Political affiliation to a major party, or being part of the crew that was willing to die to save a bunch of strangers?
    • Tocc, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4FTA "In addition, New York firefighters are anything but leftists looking to pick an ideological fight. The UFA endorsed George W. Bush in the last election. There is a strong military tradition within the department, and within the unions as well. At this year's department medal ceremony at City Hall, when one winner's family received his award because he was serving in Iraq with the Marines, the thousands of firefighters and their families rose to applaud."
    • zlintux, on 10/11/2007, -3/+1I don't think neocons really are supporters of Giuliani, they generally are supporting more hardline candidates who aren't pro-choice, anti-gun and such. In most respects, he's a rather moderate Republican. I'm hoping he wins the primary, since in my opinion, he's the least likely to ***** ***** up than his current rivals...
      • 0xbadfood, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3You're kidding, right?

        "Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." -Rudy Giuliani

        Yeah, that's not dangerous or anything. Perfect Presidential material right there.
  • Clogs, on 10/11/2007, -18/+90Giuliani received a warning before the south tower collapsed.

    Why didn't the firefighters receive the same warning?

    Joseph Pfeifer, Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.):

    “But right before the south tower collapsed, I noticed a lot of people just left the lobby, and I heard we had a crew of all different people, high-level people in government, everybody was gone, almost like they had information that we didn't have.”

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_giuliani.html

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/oem_wtc.html
    • machinegunopera, on 10/11/2007, -5/+3Anyone see transformers?

      I think if there is anything to be learned from that movie it's this...

      1. When big things(Planes, Robots, whatever) hit even bigger buildings the buildings don't collapse.
      2. American troops in any desert is just going to turn out bad.

      • twinklyJesus, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4your views on reality are based on what you see in cartoons? Hell, there's your problem!

  • repins, on 10/11/2007, -44/+9Dugg down, wrong topic this is opinion not news
    • darksheer, on 10/11/2007, -19/+4seconded.
    • CptGiglges, on 10/11/2007, -8/+2Most of politics are opinion, its an attempt to infulence the future...

      but yeah sure, 'third-ed' haha
    • Vermifax, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10Hey, Mason-boy! How about we just take a short break from burying the Truth, eh?
    • m0tbaillie, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8This isn't really opinion. It is a pretty well-documented fact that Giuliani booted the 9/11 rescue workers off of Ground Zero only a couple days after the collapse of the towers to recover gold bullion and other financial interests of various investors from within the tower rubble. In doing so, he maimed and failed to claim or search for the bodies of victims/firefighters simply to expedite the recovery efforts of the material possessions of a few wealthy investors.

      Some people never even had the "privilege" of receiving the body of their loved-one to put in a casket and stick in the ground.
    • michael4lsu, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Oh yeah, well I'm digging you down for being a Freemason! By the way, ever read "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike and learn about the Lucifer Religion that your 33rd degree brothers believe in?
    • gangstawhiteboy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4hey mister mason, do you enjoy having male prostitutes come to your temple to pleasure you. do you enjoy stripping in front of other men and wearing gay robes around with your fellow "brothers". Remember what happened back in the days when your masons were killed and had to go into exile, well thats coming again *****, but this time were gonna kill ALLL OF YOU!!!
  • cosmicdreams, on 10/11/2007, -24/+4swiftboat?
    • Propane, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3its the NYC firefighters for truth!
      • honkeybot5k, on 10/11/2007, -6/+0It doesn't matter to people like these. They want to keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
  • mikelieman, on 10/11/2007, -19/+10Rudy totally ***** up when he had the remains of the Firefighters dumped in the landfill out on Staten Island.


    • CptGiglges, on 10/11/2007, -7/+3Didn't know that, do you have a source? (aka REPUTABLE website)
    • Dgen_X, on 10/11/2007, -4/+10I dugg this one up too...since it is something that needs to be said three or four times.
      • mikelieman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I don't know WTF is wrong with digg. I hit "Submit Comment" ONCE and it's duping my posts...

  • mikelieman, on 10/11/2007, -4/+92Rudy totally ***** up when he had the remains of the Firefighters dumped in the landfill out on Staten Island.


    • NinjaBoy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Didnt he get punched in the face over this?
    • tony4moroney, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4but dont tell the republicans, they like to think their homeboy is a ***** hero. giuliani all the way republicans lead the american light they says. pro-guantanemo pro-geneva convention abuses pro-international law abuses pro-constitutional abuses pro-human rights abuses oh... but dont forget the 'important' issues like prolife and pro-sanctity of marriage yeah theyre totally holding america and the world down on those issues. ***** bastards.
    • sabach, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I've never heard this before. Is it true? What a rat bastard if so.
  • redrock34, on 10/11/2007, -5/+39But Giuliani lived through the attacks of September the 11th!
    • MysticSavage, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15That's a shame.
    • brufleth, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12"I lived through the attacks of September the 11th and all I got was this crappy campaign"
  • clownshoez, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1319/11 was the best thing that ever happened to Giuliani.

    $200,000 a speech? Thanks 9/11!
    Lucrative security "consulting" company? Thanks 9/11!
    America fooled into thinking he was a great mayor? Thanks 9/11!
    Even having a shot at the Presidency? Thanks 9/11!

    With any luck, he'll get the Republican nod, and then America will finally come around and realize what a farce he is.
    • worldsbestgamer, on 10/11/2007, -6/+2I don't dispute any of your claims or notions other than the bad mayor one.
    • mandarin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Well the Brits are also fooled. He was knighted for whatever he did in 9/11. I dont even know why he gets a boost from it.
      • DustinR, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3If he was then great now he cant become our president, since it is illegal for one to hold any titles from a foreign country.
    • shinedout, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0yea I agree with Worldsbestgamer. All is true accept for the bad mayor part...were you IN NYC in the 80's??
      • 0xbadfood, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0I was, and I can tell you, he was a bad mayor. Cleaning up crime by creating a gestapo and violating civil liberties of innocent citizens is *not* commendable.
  • pdxa4, on 10/11/2007, -10/+18I always love how these sort of things never seem to come to light untill election time.
    • CptGiglges, on 10/11/2007, -2/+23It hasn't been mentioned by Main Stream media... blame them... Most of my friends knew about it...

      Main stream media has too much control over what we hear about and what we think... Its an imperfect world i guess.
    • darksheer, on 10/11/2007, -11/+3Indeed. And the reason that they don't is they are mostly politically motivated fabrications.
    • FlaG8r, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9This info has been available, there are just more people paying attention because of the election.
    • honkeybot5k, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Because this guy wants to be PRESIDENT, is why this is relevant now. If he wanted to continue going around the country collecting speaking fees and playing Mr. 9/11, that would be fine, but he wants to be the leader of a country that has some very serious challenges to face in the next 5 years. We don't need another wanna-be dictator.
    • mcduckov, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5It has been in the NYT. These are facts that aren't in dispute.
    • kcmedic, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4This isn't just now coming out. Firefighters have been saying this all along. It's just now that he is running for president by using them that they are increasing the effort.
  • szembek, on 10/11/2007, -11/+2At least he isn't Bloomberg.
  • jtmeyer, on 10/11/2007, -13/+3hey you guys remember swiftboat veterans for truth?

    i hate this part of campaign culture.
    • honkeybot5k, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6Yeah, most people do. But that has nothing to do with this.
      • jtmeyer, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1really? you don't think so? because what i see here is a bunch of people Americans might consider to be "Heroes" coming out with a "shocking truth!" about a presidential candidate from an obviously biased forum. the info here has clearly been manipulated. work at a PR firm two days and you'll be able to recognize all the tricks that went into this piece of junk.
        • honkeybot5k, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3I do agree with your assertion that PR and Spin is an art and a science. How many Americans still think Iraq and 9/11 were tied together? I also agree that this is coming from a source with their own interests and agenda. What is disagree with is the comparison between firefighters who were are part of 9/11 and the Swift boat Vets.

          From the wikipedia entry for the SBVfT:

          Of the 3,500 Swift boat sailors who served in Vietnam, the names of some 250 appeared on the group's statement against Kerry; most did not serve at the same time or in the same place as Kerry.

          There's a big difference between an organization like New York's Uniformed Fire Officers Association, and a group that was formed during an election year specifically to engage Kerry on his military record.
        • kcmedic, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Amen. Not the same thing at all. This is not something made up during an election cycle. They have been saying this for a while.
  • CptGiglges, on 10/11/2007, -3/+51Giuliani has never been a good mayor. Up until 9/11 he had grown unfavorable to many New Yorkers, ask 'em. I have several friends who right after 9/11 wouldn't let anyone speak favorable about Giuliani. The fact is he was in office at the right time for him to catch this 'wave' of sympathy. Why is this news to so many people... mostly because the media chose not to report on his previous acts, chalk another one up on bad reporting.
    • jtmeyer, on 10/11/2007, -14/+3previous acts? like how he made NYC safe again?
      • gangstawhiteboy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8what exactly did he do to make it safe again??
        all Rudy did was wait for the towers to collapse, then he told all the firefighters it was alright to go down there. Then about 4 hours later he put on his little mining mask and walked around and pointed out the destruction....sounds like my kinda leadership. He is just like George Bush, if you vote for him or like him, your a neo con. There isnt 1 conservative thing JulieAnny does. HE"S SCUM, and he doesnt give a flying ***** about ANY OF US!!!!
    • polyGone, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9Safe? wtf Are you high?
    • Calc1000, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2You're right.
      -a New Yorker
  • TomT223, on 10/11/2007, -6/+38Rudy is a bigger hypocrite then Hillary.
    • nrobert2, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3That just can't be possible.
    • CptGiglges, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Haha, Lets agree that they are clones with minor genetic modifications...
    • tony4moroney, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1really?
      well thats a ***** surprise
      /sarcasm

      let me simplify this for you, the entire current nomination of republicans are ***** evil lying hypocrites.
      vote in a democrat and whats the worst that can happen? gays get equal rights, universal healthcare, and the war ends?
      the worst a republican can do? initiate W.*****
  • WhatsTrueth, on 10/11/2007, -5/+3This article just shows that politicians will use anything they can to get ahead, and not that I would have voted for Rudy either way, but it shows that that this is the worst part of campaigning, but I think it is an inevitable part of the two party system. If there were more viable candidates running then those candidates would be more focused on solving our issues than attacking each other.
  • honkeybot5k, on 10/11/2007, -0/+32Rudy, block and half away from the towers on 9/11
    Rudy. block and half away from the station on 7/7 in London

    God I hope he doesn't come to my town to campaign! He's got terror cooties!
    • CptGiglges, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Haha, So true...

      Humor is life's equalizer
    • khence, on 10/11/2007, -2/+19/11 and 7/7 London bombings are both 21st Century Gladio like false-flag operations. Google Gladio. Watch the 3 part BBC series where we learn the CIA and MI6 were responsible for many bombings in Italy and throughout Europe all blamed on the Communists or the radical political left and all aimed to consolidate power of the fascist right. It's wake up time America and not a moment too late.
    • queenstarsha, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1it's because he hangs out in cities, where people actually USE the kind of freedom muslim extremists and christian extremists out in wyoming both hate.
  • MisterKen, on 10/11/2007, -8/+3This hostility and finger pointing is coming from the Fireman and Police is directed from their Unions.
    They accuse Giuliani of it, but they do a fine job of using 9/11 as leverage for their advantage. They are still angry they did not get a blank check after 9/11 and are looking to stir up hornets to get back at him.
    I'm no fan of Giuliani, but the NY Police and Fire departments have excessive entitlement issues.
    • polyGone, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7I am having a hard time finding a rebuttal. Again, it is hard to counter a baseless claim.
    • gangstawhiteboy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8ARE YOU ***** KIDDING ME!!!
      these are the guys that were the first on the scene, they lost their brothers, and all because of our corrupt ***** gov't. These guys are entitled to the ***** shirt of ur back. Rudy threw those guys in the line of fire and knew what was gonna happen. i mean dont you think they should be entitled to some kind of insurance pension, or at least Rudy's ***** businesses and most of the money he has. 9/11 was an inside job, and once you realize that, you realize that these firemen were pawns, and yeh if you ever woke up and realized how much of a pawn u r, then yeh, you might wanna be entitled to someting as well. LETS HANG RUDY!!!
  • namezod, on 10/11/2007, -0/+35giuliani needs to stop using firemens' heroism to his own political advantage
    • jtmeyer, on 10/11/2007, -12/+2agreed. and liberals shouldn't try to use it to theirs either.
  • BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/11/2007, -5/+4NYC always has a love/hate relationship with Rudy. Some people loved him, other's hated him. I think he did a great job as mayor, even before 9/11. Before Rudy, Times Square was full of hookers, strip clubs, and three card monty games scamming the tourists. He cleaned the city up to something that tourists would actually want to visit.
    • honkeybot5k, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12Great! So let's make him secretary of Tourism then! No need for all that Presidential Blah Blah. Let's put him where his talents will shine!
    • questionable, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6I read in Freakanomics that it was the mayor proceeding and the police commissioner that did all that, not him.
      • CletusJones, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6DINKINS?!?! He was about the worst mayor we ever had. He let crime get out of control, and, according to him, nothing was ever his fault.
        • BohicaTwentyTwo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5I'm with you on Dinkins. He was completely ineffective.
  • cryptomystic, on 10/11/2007, -1/+43The fact that he is leading in the polls proves how misinformed the general public is about this monster.
  • DestroyFascism, on 10/11/2007, -2/+20Giuliani = Terrorist! I rest my case......
    • CptGiglges, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6the term terrorist is used to liberally now, Its become a household term and its used to describe everybody from a suicide bomber to a man trying to protect was he believes is truth...

      During the American revolution, we were fighting a 'righteous' army for independence.. to the British we must have been terrorists, people just see the resolve of the current enemies as insane... we were fighting for representation, they are fighting for their way of life (whether you think its wrong or not)

      This reminds me of the improper translation of the Koran, its not 12 virgins... its 72 mansions, each with 72 beds, each with 72 virgins... (now I do not know if this is fact, but either way... that's some good leverage)
      • DephexTwin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Good points and all, but I just wonder... if I were having an orgy with 12 virgins, would I really think, "these 12 virgins are great, but I could sure use 60 more of them"? That is to say, could there a threshold of virgins where the orgy just becomes an exhausting logistical nightmare? Would I even notice if it were just 36 virgins and they just each had a go twice?
        • michael4lsu, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Just think, if you spent 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 years with each of those 72 virgins alone at a time, after 72,000,000,000,000,000,000 years went by you would STILL have the remainder of eternity to spend with those same 72 former virgins.
  • kelvinator, on 10/11/2007, -10/+0yeah, well these firefighters aren't much better; they stole everything they could get their hands on from the world trade center site. heroism my ass, I saw what really went on there! common theives and crooks...
    • gangstawhiteboy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5they stole everything??? wasnt it rudy that had these guys brothers remains dumped in a ***** landfill?? and ur worried about firefighters stealing lil pieces of burned down building. what EXACTLY did u see them steal, because this is a serious allegation.??
      and wasnt it rudy who stole the evidence and left overs from the building and sent them to CHINA to evaluated?? these firemen were pawns and i blame them for being used by scumbags who sat up in a building and watched this happen. get informed man
  • Vermifax, on 10/11/2007, -6/+39Rudolph shipped the WTC debris to Asia before any forensics team, local OR federal, had a chance to scientifically determine what brought the buildings down. He just swept it under the rug and blamed it on jet fuel.

    I'm a New Yorker of 14 years. ***** that cross-dressin', wife-cheatin' New-Con-Artist son-of-a-bitch!
    • CptGiglges, on 10/11/2007, -11/+2While that might be true, And i don't see the point of shipping something like this away (other than to reduce pain/suffering of those still living) The reason for its collapse is apparent, I've spoken to several structural engineers, every single one of them confirmed that the planes hit withing a few floors of the weakest points of the buildings... Those points would give way, and then the floors above them would come crashing down, which the floors below would not be able to support. Think about the concentration required to fly a Boeing into a building and hit within 10ft of the 'sweet' spot. The thing with the WTC is that it had no exterior shell, the entire wait was held up by a large interior column, with nothing but glass (for the most part) surrounding it. Glass cant hold up to very much force (as anyone who had a rock fly thought their windshield)
      • Jmuduke, on 10/11/2007, -7/+7Okay, so the planes just happened to hit the "Sweet Spot" in both buildings? And building 7 collapsed because the fires in the building melted the "sweet spot" in that building too? Your evidence is *****. I'm sorry but the odds of 3 steel buildings collapsing from fire, all in the same place, all on the same day....well lets just say its maybe 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
        • Bamborzled, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3"I'm sorry but the odds of 3 steel buildings collapsing from fire, all in the same place, all on the same day....well lets just say its maybe 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000"

          1. Doesn't mean it can't happen. People win the lottery, right? People get struck by lightning, right?
          2. Do YOU, my 9/11 conspiracy friend, have any EVIDENCE of an inside job? Your evidence is just as inconclusive as the 9/11 investigators' reports.
    • Chizz44, on 10/11/2007, -2/+12Life long New Yorker here - this is the thing that always, always bothered me to no end. How on Earth could you just pack up all that debris and ship it to China to be melted down. That was so disgusting, watching the "clean-up" of Ground Zero on the news as they had huge caravans of dump trucks loaded to the hilt speeding everything away. It all happened soooo fast that it made my head spin. Lots of talk about cleanup and none whatsoever about examining the rubble on the news. All under the guise of "speeding the healing process" *****! Why wasn't FEMA allowed to examine the Pile? I was allowed within seven blocks of that area within 3 days to work on some freaking POTS lines in a Sprint store, for crying out loud, if they were allowing me to do that, workers to climb all over the Pile digging and the whole area smelled like dust, chemicals and death (it was covered in ash that you just new was BAD AS ***** FOR YOU)...awwww nevermind, it is obvious to anyone that lived in NY when the ***** went down that there was a coverup. It happened in plain sight.
      • backflipper, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1That sounds reasonable.
        "Hey, this building collapsed in Manhattan, and it's covered in toxic chemicals. Should we clean it up?"
        "No, let's leave it there and have it examined for the next few months. i'm sure no additional toxic chemicals will seep into ground water or get blown into the air."

        It was obvious that the buildings collapsed due to two planes crashing into them, and the fire that ensued thereafter. Manhattan is a very busy place, and it was vital for the economy that it gets back into working order. Therefore they had the cleanup proceed very quickly. That sounds reasonable to me.
        • Kikokun, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2they were not cleaning, they were eliminating evidence of the explosives used to bring the towers down.
          Ex-mafia Giulianni was in on the plot, his job was just to clean up incriminating evidence, much like harvey Keitel did in pulp fiction.
          GET A BRAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • djdole, on 10/11/2007, -13/+2WTF. Six years later and people are STILL TROLLING the events of 9/11.
    FTA:
    "Martin Steadman, a spokesperson for New York's Uniformed Fire Officers Association (UFOA), explains that the New York City Fire Department issued a report on communication devices after the 1993 World Trade Center bombing showed that the department's hand-held radio devices were wholly inadequate."

    ***** you Steadman, Unless they're UBER AWESOME TELEPORTER RADIOS (or maybe the Jesus Phone), no walkie talkie is going to stop those towers from falling or get the people out any faster than the bottle-necked tower stairs would allow.

    Buried as lame.
    • honkeybot5k, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10YEAH MAN! One of the darkest days in America's history is SO 2001. I mean, let's not try to determine how a potential PRESIDENT OF OUR COUNTRY, fared as a leader during a catastrophic disaster. This man is a HERO who will bravely stand on ruble and say inspiring things! That's what this country needs!

      Sure he didn't exactly take the time to READ the 9/11 commission's report, but he was too busy extruding PATRIOTISM from every pore of his body!

      I tell you what would be a good Digg article:

      SIENTISTS GUYS THINK MAYBE GULIANI IS A GENETIC HYBRID OF AN EAGLE AND ABRAHAM LINCOLNS DNA!

      I would digg that up and tell a friend!
  • hmmmok, on 10/11/2007, -12/+3The firefighters union has an axe to grind because Rudy wouldn't cave into their salary demands. I guess we can blame them when we get Hillery.
  • Godzilla07, on 10/11/2007, -10/+3Giuliani is a hypocrite. He should be campaigning as a Democrat instead of a Republican. 9/11 is the only thing that made him a presidential candidate. He has all the traits of a Democrat. Sadly, Giuliani will win the Republican nomination. It should be Romney, but he's a Mormon which doesn't bode all that well for a Republican candidate.
    • queenstarsha, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1"...he's a Mormon which doesn't bode all that well for a Republican candidate."

      Why? Because Republicans are bigots? Thought so.
  • jellygraph, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15I'm starting to wonder if there are any decent republicans... ok, i'm sure there are some, but what percentage is that? like, 25% versus the 75% which are crooks, liars and repugnant individuals? what the hell...
    • Jmuduke, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12Ron Paul just won the NH straw poll at 65%. Guliani got 6% HAHAHAHAHA
    • queenstarsha, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1they're still okay to have a beer with. little did we know that's all they ever had going for them. you start talking about real politics and you realize the rest is corruption, selfishness, greed, and christian hypocrisy.
  • WriterY, on 10/11/2007, -1/+21How sad that Giuliani did not provide adequate communication devices for the firemen. It really makes one think about how many of the brave firefighters needlessly lost their lives due to this incompetence...

    BTW, after reading that Gooliani's law firm is knee-deep in the Mexican Super-highway business, he lost my vote...
    • honkeybot5k, on 10/11/2007, -0/+12Thanks for bringing that up! Anybody wanna question why we're using eminent domain to steal land away from Americans to build a toll roll that will be owned and operated by a Spanish firm? Oh, did I mention this corporation will be keeping most of the money earned from it?
    • spidermedic, on 10/11/2007, -2/+0Hmmm....or it could be that a breakdown in command was also to blame. I love how firefighters loudly proclaim themselves heroes...but if there's a screw up they always point the finger at someone else. This is all typical IAFF Bullscat!
  • Aaronontheweb, on 10/11/2007, -12/+3Let me guess: MoveOn.org wants to use some sort of "swift-boat vet" against Giuliani? Voted down for being propaganda, not news, but then again by that standard, I should probably be voting down every Apple press release.
    • honkeybot5k, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6That's right! In fact Moveon.org went so far as to set up a whole a magazine and website called The American Prospect, in 1990, just for this one article today! Before 9/11 even happened! Before Moveon.org even EXISTED!

      Oh man! I can't even begin to fathom how deep the rabbit hole goes on this one! NOW WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT LIBERAL PSYCHICS WHO WRITE ARTICLES!

      I'm just glad we have a sharp cat like you keeping an eye on this for us!
  • geekee, on 10/11/2007, -8/+2swift boat
  • VitriolAndAngst, on 10/11/2007, -1/+7I'm amazed how total Hypocrisy, and failure on the Right, always gets spread around to say "all government."

    By using the broad brush on politicians -- which we will endure until the end of time, you punish the good -- whoever they are, and let the bad get a pass. This is Guiliani -- who is George Bush Jr. if you want 4 more years of the same (ditto for Fred Thompson).
  • mojibyrd, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5Perhaps Guilianni's camp is as dumb as he is, as they obviously do not realize that the public perception of firefighters is a hell of alot higher than a two-faced, drag queen, prick of a politician as Guilliani and he is a lawyer to boot, so that gives him another x-mark on the distrust factor....gotta love the firefighters for speaking the truth....now if the police and other emergency personnel would do the same....go get him boys and girls bring this bastard to his knees.
  • omio, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Giuliani wants to take away my guns.
  • mcduckov, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13New Yorkers have known all this for a while. We kinda marvel at the worldwide acclaim heaped upon Rudy despite the fact the he did not do nearly enough to prepare for the disaster despite the fact that terrorists tried to take down the WTC in 1993.

    Further, his heavy handed tactics on street crime made sense for a tough city that was out of control. I really REALLY don't want to see those tactics replicated at a federal level. Please republicans don't nominate this guy.
  • robflm256, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4He's not getting my vote.
  • loboloco, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6The Goul is like a microcosmic example of the, "puppet regime to the corporate globalist agenda" Bush administration. Profiteering and furthering their agenda with lies about 9-11 and the blood of my fellow Americans which was shed on 9-11 and now on a daily basis in Iraq. If theres ever any justice by truth in our country then the Gouls head will roll as will many treasonous others who have usurped our liberties with lies.
  • jmpeagle, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3unforunately, the majority of firefighters and policeman in NYC still think guiliani is God. Only a lucky few have seen through his stump speeched and politicizations.
    • geekee, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2"unforunately, the majority of firefighters and policeman in NYC still think guiliani is God. "

      So you only listen to the ones that tell you what you want to hear, I see.
  • khence, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3Check out http://www.911pressfortruth.com. The truth about this knighted mob tied phony is just the tip of the iceberg of the 9/11 Cover-up.

    Support the 9/11 Families get the answers they deserve and overcome the government's effort to cover-up the truth. Sept 7-16 nationwide please buy and screen the 9/11: Press for Truth DVD which exposes damning facts about what the government learned before 9/11 and what they did about it. It also poignantly tells the story of a few 9/11 families members who fought to overcome the Administration's refusal to investigate 9/11 only to be betrayed by the 9/11 Commission.

    Digg this up. It's time for the truth and the facts to triumpth over fear and greed.

    Regards,

    Kyle F. Hence
    Executive Producer
    http://www.911pressfortruth.com
  • shinedout, on 10/11/2007, -4/+0Giuliani might have been terrible to firefighters. Yes Very True.

    But were any of you IN New York in the 80's??? The east Village was a danger zone - You used to have to lock your car doors so people didn't kidnap you at nearly every stop. The Subway system was UN-RIDABLE due to crime!!! Bad to firefighters YES. But did he clean up New York and make it SAFE - YES!
    • xdream, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Um... no he didn't. Judy Riuliani was a penny pinching scum ball who fought everyone in every department. New York is scum, period. It's all the porn and drugs you fools did in the eighties, that made it unlivable. moron. That lying lisping pervert married his cousin! How sick can you get.
  • Jareth86, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1Giuliani was a hero! And what does this have to do with the iPhone?
    • xdream, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Hero my ass. We're 10 trillion in debt. Until we get rid of the federal reserve, money changers, and the crooks in Washington, the so-called "hero", (really just a self indulgent asshat like you), will do nothing but steal and preen his feathers. Congressman Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate to get us out of the mess we're in... We're only rich cause we BORROW money, and use that to pay back the INTEREST the money changers CHARGE us. So yeah, *****, go back to your stupid ***** moronic iPhone and keep your head up your ass where it's safe and warm. Stupid *****.
      • loboloco, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Hey xdream theres a place for people like us if you aren't there already. It's a truther meeca at
        www. sitespaces.net , you can open a free account and start networking all kinds of info warriors. I'm on there as CRAZY WOLF. Most of us are Ron Paulers as well. But a word of advice as I just posted a bulletin on the sites about this. Some are born to love a lie over the truth and we can't change their destiny but some can be brought to the truth but you catch more converts with honey than vinegar.
  • LilRabbitFooFoo, on 08/11/2008, -1/+6It's remarkable how we let the two men (Bush and Guliani) caught with their pants completely down by 9-11 have managed to turn their incompetence and gross ineptitude into character plusses. I mean, in other countries, when such gross negligence is exposed, they resign, or in the case of China, they are executed. For some reason we have rewarded the bozos who simply reacted when they were caught not minding the store we elected them to protect. Spin is a wonderful thing isn't it?
    • loboloco, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0Your observations are a perfect example of the power of a controlled media. Most people don't look into alternative news sources outside of the controlled mainstream media. If they did there would be people screaming in the streets for justice.
  • ragnar0kk, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5god damn right, Giuliani is a criminal and a fascist and i hope to god he doesn't get elected.
  • Pixelpaws, on 10/11/2007, -2/+0So he didn't provide new equipment to the firefighters. Should he have? Yes, certainly. The fact he didn't doesn't automatically make him a terrible person as this article suggests though.
    • mr100percent, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1No, the fact that he campaigned on the fact that he did SUCH a good job on 9/11 and is capable of stopping another one is what makes him terrible. His greatest "strength" is quite hollow.

      Remember the video of him walking around the NYC streets minutes after? That's because his Emergency center was on fire because he insisted on putting it in the WTC instead of in Brooklyn, as the Fire department and police department begged him to do
  • newyawker, on 10/11/2007, -6/+4I'm a new yorker, and I can't stand Giuliani (or Bush), for a variety of reasons.

    However, it is appalling (and pathetic) how many diggers think that 9/11 was an inside job. There is literally no evidence for it, and scientists, engineers, the facts, and others continually debunk the "9/11 truth" garbage.
    • fuzzmeister, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3"Truthers" don't care about such facts, they have already made their conclusions and are moving on to spread the message, truthful or not.
      • xdream, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3yeah, such as the so-called "pancake" theory? There's a good "fact". How do morons like you ever figure out how to set up a computer let alone actually use one? Take a physics class, and shut your stupid ***** hole. Moron. The media are the actual culprits that only say what their corporate masters tell them. Just like you. Asshat.
        • newyawker, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Say what?
        • fuzzmeister, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1"morons"
          "shut your stupid ***** hole"
          "Moron"
          "Asshat"

          Also, I suggest you read both sides of the story. Alex Jones only shows you the physicists who agree with him, while in fact the vast majority of physicists disagree, and can disprove his statements.
    • ragnar0kk, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6you certainly don't have to be a "truther" to hate Giuliani, there are many many reasons to dislike him. (like the fact that none of his children will even speak to him, the NY fire department hates him, he is one of the most arrogant politicians i have ever seen, etc)
    • danarama, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1ther'e no evidence to support the official story and in fact a huge degree of contradictions in the reports and LIES spewing out guiliani's mouth. you evidence to support your beleifs provide evidence that what they're saying actually happened did in fact happen. there isn't any from building seven to the lack of any plane at the pentagon. all this entails big time cover ups and yes that also means inside job not just willing negligence.
  • xdream, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Judy Riuliani married his cousin. He's a sick son of a bitch. He should be whipped in public on national television for his lazy lying faggoty lisping big fat ***** mouth. He knew about 9/11 before it happened. That's why he wasn't in building 7 in his bunker. He was with FEMA that day. And why was FEMA in New York? Why were secret service in New York that day?
  • JebBlack, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Question everything! yeah, even your government. Don't be scared, you just may become a patriot!
  • griffin7, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2It is a shame that the fire fighters of New York city did not have adequate effective equipment during the time that they were responding to the Twin Towers attack.
    Perhaps there are other incidents that showcase how these inadequacies limited the firefighters effectiveness, and endangered their lives, and the lives of the general population.
    It would be interesting to see just how the budgeting process works in New York City to see just how prominent a role the Mayor plays in this process. Undoubtedly, the Mayor has a significant role to play, but there could be other factors involved in these budgetary/financial processes and decisions.
    In summary, this does not bode well for the campaign of Rudy G., and hopefully, a better Republican will get the nomination in 2008.
  • loboloco, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0My sincere suggestion to all who have not seen the movies, Freedom to fascism and Loose Change to go to you tube and take the time to watch these movies and then place your comments as the vids. have much pertinent information which when absorbed will lead to a more informed posting.
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