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- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -6/+71I wonder if multi-millionaires James Dobson and Pat Robertson can fit through the eye of a needle.
- unitedstatians, on 10/12/2007, -6/+38What can i tell you faith sells, intellect does not.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+30I do know that Rick Warren (The Purpose Driven Life) lives on a reverse tithe: He gives 90% of his income and lives on 10%.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -13/+42In that case, Christians should eradicate gay marriage by VOLUNTARY walking up to gays and telling them to stop sinning.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -9/+38I asked Jesus, and he simply said:
וּמַלֵּיל יְיָ יָת כָּל פִּתְגָמַיָּא הָאִלֵּין לְמֵימַר
אֲנָא יְיָ אֱלָהָךְ דְּאַפֵּיקְתָּךְ מֵאַרְעָא דְּמִצְרַיִם מִבֵּית עַבְדוּתָא
So, there you have it. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+28@ dugdig, this is the passage you were thinking about.
Luke 21
The Widow's Offering
1As he looked up, Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. 2He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins.[a] 3"I tell you the truth," he said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others. 4All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on."
******************************************
This context of this is that God appreciates the offerings we give when we give from our heart, not out of our wealth.
On giving, I believe if more people had the attitude that Bill Murray possessed at the end of Scrooged, i.e. the 'here' speech, the world would be a better place. - gr4v3d1gg3r, on 10/12/2007, -4/+29Jesus already spoke on the matter.Please read your Bible,it is the best defense.Just because the hypocrites are calling themselves Christian now doesn't matter.It's genius how they are slandering the poor and the Bible at the same time.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22"I wonder if multi-millionaires James Dobson and Pat Robertson can fit through the eye of a needle."
You should know that the eye of the needle was actually a very small hole in the giant walls that surrounded cities back in that time. The idea was that at night the city gates would be shut, but there needed to be a way for travellers during the night to be able to enter the city, yet the hole needed to be small enough that it could be easily defended, thus, the eye of the needle. Camels would have to get down on their knees and shuffle through in order to get through the hole. - laxidasical, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18Does god even need to be involved? The whole reason gays want legal marriage is for the rights afforded couples, particularly involving medical rights for sick spouses.
- axiomflash, on 10/12/2007, -11/+25I can guarantee you that liberals donate more money and time to charity than conservatives. I see it in action all the time in my personal life. Take Bill Gates and Warren Buffett for example. Fact of the matter is that in today's America, to be liberal is to be generous and to be conservative is to be selfish.
- binky79, on 10/12/2007, -8/+22"What would Jesus say?"
George Carlin said it best when talking about the sanctity of life:
"You don't see Abbott and Costello running around, talking about this *****, do you? We're not hearing a whole lot from Mussolini on the subject. What's the latest from JFK? Not a god damned thing, cause JFK, Mussolini, and Abbott and Costello are ***** dead." - nukethewhales, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16As far as I know the passage has always been translated as "the eye of A needle" and not "the eye of THE needle". Though it seems completely pointless to argue the semantics of a speech that was not even a direct quote but written some 40 to 100 years after the death of Jesus. With either definition, though, it is clear that Jesus meant that it was very difficult for a rich man to get into heaven. And if you combine this quote with other quotes from the bible you can pretty much assume that Jesus disapproved of those who hoarded wealth.
- Artifez, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Evil people always have the best intentions, or at least claim to. The Christian Coalition is a parasite on this country and is intent on making their form of morality law. These kind of people hiding behind religion is so common throughout history that you can look practically anywhere and find them justifying their bigotry with the kind words of a dead man. People just like this are creditied for shuffling Jesus off this mortal coil because he didn't follow the rules. CristCol plutocrats have more in common with the Pharasies then they do with the J man.
Pathetic, lying, sanctimonious worms. - gr4v3d1gg3r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14No ,read the 4 gospels .There is NO wiggle room.It's pretty clear that he is saying he will be gone but the poor will be with you ,so treat them as you would him.It's not just 2 verses ,its in there over and over.
- reddevil3, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15Christians "don't shun gay people?" I'm sorry, but if it wasn't for the whole Christian right gay marriage would be legal.
I live down here in Birmingham, the heart of the South you could say. Most people here think that Christianity should be part of the government...as evidenced by that Supreme Court judge a few years back who wouldn't take the ten commandments down from the court or something (he was fired I think). The thought of voting for a non-Christian never crosses their mind. They look down upon atheists as if there is no hope for them in this life or the "hereafter".
Of course, most of them are nice people. But most of them wish for a Christian state too. - Saiing, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Personally I'm not a Christian, and I'm extremely doubtful of whether any religion is true. This probably means I'm going to hell if Jesus is real. However, I have read the Bible cover to cover several times, and I know what it says. It gives me a degree of comfort to know that if I'm going to hell, then so are a lot of these people that claim to be Christians, and yet behave as if they have absolutely no Christian values whatsoever.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but greed, bigotry, selfishness, dishonesty and arrogance are not qualities that the Lord encouraged. Yet it seems that the right-wing Christians in the U.S. in particular seem to think that they just have to "call" themselves Christian to be one, even if their daily actions are anything but what Jesus suggested was the true way to live.
I'd love to be there on the day that George Bush dies, and discovers that rather than being the great Christian he thinks he is, Satan has saved a special place in hell just for him. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12"Poverty is important, but if a Christian believes that all that matters in life is reaching others for Christ, then the environment isn't a big issue (especially is Jesus is coming back & we're gonna trash this planet anyway)."
We are stewards of Gods creation. Why would we want to ignore it? - hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15"the poor will be with you always."
Whatsoever you do to the least of My brothers, that you do unto Me.
Depending on how those two phrases are interpreted, there's wiggle room. - phogasmic, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11The Christian Coalition are Christian in name only, Jesus cares more about the poor way more then stamping out gay marriage and stopping abortion. I don't think gay marriage keeps him up at night.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11@dainbramage559:
The claim the eye of the needle Jesus was talking about was some how a small gate in Jerusalem is an old wives tale with no evidence to back it up. It simply sounded good so people repeated it.
http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm - jmiller22, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Thoughts:
I'm no fan of the Christian Coalition in the first place. They are not Christianity; they are simply a few people with big mouths who want to speak for it.
Jesus very clearly was concerned about the poor ("Pure and undefiled religion is this.."). I think it is indeed an underrepresented issue in contemporary Christianity.
It's worth remember that there is a difference between working to help the poor and demanding the government give others' money to the poor. - wyomingred, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I honestly hate to cite the lyrics to a song I find syrupy and a little over-bearing, but Ray Stevens did sum it up best in his song "Would Jesus Wear a Rolex?":
Would he wear a pinkie ring? Would he drive a fancy car? Would his wife wear pearls and diamonds? Would his dressing room have a star? If he came back tomorrow, well there's something I'd like to know / Would Jesus wear a Rolex on his Television Show?
Televangelists are the epitome of why I went from being raised a Born Again Christian to an Atheist. - jamessavik, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Poor people don't send money- or at least not in the amounts necessary to gain the attention of the political whore-mongers that run such organizations.
- Jolls, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Actually I thought the article was a good one. It shows the true colors of the Rev, whom all the board members knew to be an excellent example of a 'Christian'. Thus, being an excellent example he wanted to help people in need and ended up resigning because he would be unable to do so. Rock it up Joel!
- socrates, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8No one is perfect. Let's just keep that in mind.
- giveer, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9*Ahem*
The Christian Right is neither Christian, nor right.
Amen. - LOUiSSCHiSM, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Along similar lines, people should investigate the Gnostic Scriptures.
Especially the Gospel of Thomas.
It consists almost exclusively of quotes from Jesus. Not surprisingly, it strikes a powerful chord today.
If Jesus came back today, 95% of "christians" would be waiting in line to nail him back up again. We like our saviors dead - because it's much easier to then twist their words to our own agendas... - tehnico, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8If Jesus was alive today the last thing he would be is a Christian.
- DimitroffVodka, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Jesus was a proud hippy liberal.
- giveer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6who gets to say? ...ohhh idunno...."by this shall all men know you are my disciples, if you have LOVE one for another."
Not that Jesus said that or anything... ooh... hang on... wait, yeah.. He DID....
ironically i probably should drop my sarcasm, but it's pretty fun.. - Ystig, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Unlikely. Jesus never termed himself אלהים or יהוה.
- Gerz1219, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I think what a lot of people are missing here is that the Christian Coalition is not, as its name implies, some kind of big tent organization aimed at promoting Christianity. It's a narrow special interest group which aims to curry favor with the Republican Party and pressure the government to pass legislation banning gay marriage and abortion. The poverty issue is not popular with Republicans, who are pro-business and believe the government should administer as little social welfare as possible. If the Christian Coalition were to take on poverty and the environment as part of their agenda, they would lose influence with the Republican Party, which simply has to maintain an anti-welfare and anti-regulation stance. I personally disagree with the conservative position on all of these matters, but it seems kind of disingenuous to fault the organization for not taking on one issue or another. This is the equivalent of PETA being chastised for not promoting gay marriage.
- typo180, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12These guys are in no way a representation of the vast majority of Christians that I've met. They don't shun gay people and they don't think it's somehow a good idea to infiltrate the government and create a theocracy.
What is it these people are trying to do exactly? If you're behind them, take a good look at the central message of Christianity and at examples of human decency, then reconsider you position on issues like this. - socrates, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6That is true. Those are the Fundamentalists and Theonomists. I have met many of them in my time in Seminary. It is sad when "liberal Christians" are the only ones who appear to have humanitarian concerns.
But the Christian Coalition is more of a political organization than a Christian organization anyways. Therefore they only care about the more interesting issues. But I'm sure the members of the Coalition care about poverty and environmental issues, they just don't see the Christian Coalition as that means. Other Christian/Secular organizations already do a great deal in those areas. - emiles, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6You shouldn't let hypocrites influence your belief in something. Every belief system/philosophy has its share of hypocritical followers.
- hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Then there's the whole:
Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Mat 15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.
Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. - Sfmobius, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5It is refreshing to see not everyone in the christian coalition is a right wing nut obsessed with what gay men are up to in this country. I think it says a lot for his integrity as a person to step down if they wish to continue pushing their hate "agenda" in the name of religion.
I said it before and I'll say it again. The "christians" are driving more people out of religion than I ever could. - gr4v3d1gg3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Wow,I feel much better now .It happened so fast!
- hawkeye17, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6More proof that the Christian Coalition is run by fake Christians.
- hackwrench, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4How "the poor will be with you always" ends up getting explained, and how I would guess the "Christian Coalition" interprets it, is that when "more worthier causes" come along, the money that could have been given to the poor should go to the more worthier causes.
Only problem is, translated that way, "more worthier causes" just keep springing up and the poor never get tended to. - mozi470, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I was appalled when a Christian disagreed with me that feeding the hungry was one of the first priorities of Christ's early church. I had forgotten that so many Christians feel that Gay marriage and abortion are *the* big issues in America today. The Christians I meet and hang out with are often very politically active, but they tend to be focused on raising funds and awareness for the night-commuters in Uganda, micro-loans, vaccines for third world countries, disaster response and relief, education, etc. Many of them find themselves in direct opposition to the Christian Coalition. Seeing the comments on here, I can see that there are many diggers whose experience with Christians differ greatly from mine. Were our experiences switched, I suspect our opinions would adjust accordingly.
- lostknight, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6At the risk of point out something to people who really just don't care, the entire point was that it is impossible to make it into heaven under your own power. Wealth included.
- VolatileWhimsy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"The Rev. Joel Hunter, of Longwood's Northland, A Church Distributed, said Wednesday that the national group would not let him expand the organization's agenda beyond opposing abortion and gay marriage."
This is horribly tragic.. :/
As a Christian I would like to state that his group does not represent me even remotely. And they represent what is wrong with religion everywhere today. - Berkana, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Jesus' words are as relevant to the prominently and conspicuously religious public figures today as they were in his time:
Luke 11:42
. . . but woe to you Pharisees! You tithe a tenth of your mint, rue, and every kind of herb, and you bypass justice and love for God. These things you should have done without neglecting the others.
Other passages accuse them as well:
James 2:1-6
My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court?
James 2:14-19
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. - Niteryder, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I was born over a half a century ago and I disagree and think this type of group is
more into fleecing old people for money for a lavish tax free lifestyle to talk trash from.
Christain's do support causes that help bring people out of poverty as opposed to
giving them money to stay in poverty.
Political ideologies don't mix well with religion and right wing nutcase's should
find somewhere else to hide and leave real Christan's alone - dBLiSS, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"you'll know that the message of Christianity (repeated ad nauseam by Paul, for example) is that faith in Jesus is what is required for salvation"
Why would any rational thinking person be so devoted to a religion where having faith in the deity is the only road to salvation and the only thing necessary. If I were gonna believe in an imaginary friend I wouldn't let them push me around like that. - KidAirbag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I love it when "pro-lifers" always say "be thankful your mom chose life."
If I was never born, how the hell could I give a *****? - gr4v3d1gg3r, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Very interesting scripture there hackwrench .I was so interest I did some reading .Mark7:24 -7:30 looks like same story told differently.Please correct me if I am wrong.I will look 4 this acount in all 4 gospels to get a full understanding.
- rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Who gets to say whether they are Christians? How about the Bible?
James Chapter 1:
26If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. -
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