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- gooddaysunshine, on 10/12/2007, -13/+77aww donutguy that's too much. 90% of the troops are badly misinformed. keep in mind they've been away, on a never ending illegal invasion, for a long while. the criminals who planned the war keep extending tours. keep re-deploying. keep them away from their famlies. keep them in harms way. not alot of time to find out what they are really there for. unfortunate, for sure. intentional, i'd bet.
- dftpnkezln, on 10/12/2007, -14/+75Apologies that the poll is a few months old, but I just found it astounding that troops have been deliberately misled as to the purpose/motivation for their mission
- OneHine, on 10/12/2007, -5/+41@donutguy7 and swrostmore
There's a rather large distinction between being stupid and deliberately keeping yourself ignorant, and being intentionally misinformed by others. The smartest guy in the world would have a hard time understanding the situation if everyone around him kept lying to him while at the same time telling him that all truthful sources are "anti-American friends of terrorists". - tidu, on 10/12/2007, -5/+32@swrostmore:
I'd like to see you get out of the armed forces before your contract's up. - profOblivion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22There's nothing misleading about it. The word poll automatically implies a sample. If they asked 100% of the servicemen, the word would be census.
- Verchiel77, on 10/12/2007, -5/+23Can't blame the troops. Watching the "evolving rationales" for the war evaporate while more of your fellow servicemen are being blown to hell and gone every day, I'd imagine that you'd cling to whatever gets you through the day.
- thetaco82, on 10/12/2007, -5/+22"Apologies that the poll is a few months old"
Does 14 really qualify as a few? It would be quite interesting to compare this data to some more recent figures, though. - 2Wrongs, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13I was recently in Iraq (about when this poll was done). This was accurate in my unit.
When I told one guy that the 9/11 guys weren't from Iraq and we didn't find weapons of mass destruction, there was a look of shock on his face that will haunt me (I'm not kidding). I tried to cheer him up by talking about how bad Saddam was and how we're helping the people but he was still shaken. I'm still not sure what I should have told him. I hate Fox News (his only source of "information"; I asked). - Gerz1219, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13At first I thought you were joking, and then I realized you were an idiot who doesn't understand the concept of polling. Why not enlist? They've probably lowered the aptitude bar enough by now.
- SickMonkey, on 10/12/2007, -7/+18Don't blame the troops, blame that lying sack of ***** Cheney and Fox News for perpetuating the myth that Saddam had something to do with 9-11.
- Witchboy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Serif, you must be trolling. I make video games now for a living and have for 15 years. I spent 6 years in the USAF and loved it. I worked in SATCOM around a bunch of smart, hard-working dedicated people. Men and women from all walks of life. The jobs they undertook are amazing...compared to most mainstream civilian jobs (desk jobs or retail or whatever), I'd say the military is full of challenging roles. So your view strikes me as simplistic and naive. While I see myself as a moderate with mostly left leaning social views, I'm fairly right-leaning in terms of business. Guess what? People are complex...we're not simple black and white extremists. Personally, while I loved serving in the USAF, I am totally against the "war" on terrorism, the neocons, Bush, Cheney, Rove, the religious right influencing our government, the global warming deniers, etc. Quit generalizing.
- nickbender, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13@swrostmore...
it means that regardless of what the troops think they are contractually bound to serve out their tour... and thus even if they do disagree with the cause of the war, would be criminals if they attempted to voice it.
That all being said... just because they believe the cause of the war, doesn't mean they disagree with us trying to fix what we started. - dime, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9"Surface logic" roughly translates to "I've never taken a college level statistics course", amirite?
- ShuttleDisaster, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12wow. you are a jackass.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@geometry
A far more likely result is Americans would have a planned escape route to Canada. Conscription is slavery and has no place in a free country. - gooddaysunshine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Operation Iraqi Liberation
you nailed it.
the point was to go in and turn off the spigots. to 'enhance Iraq's relationship with OPEC'
the result was doubling the price of crude (from $20 dollars a barrel to $40 a barrel). i don't need to explain the close relationship this administration has with the energy industry. they all got paid off on this one. - rpfsc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9@SeritTheRobot - Did you know that 98 percent of all enlisted recruits who enter the military have an education level of high school or greater, compared to the national average of 75 percent? If you knew the facts about the education level of our military, would you retract your statement? (Source Heritage Foundation - from the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense)
- SultanTravi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@axel2k1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizers_of_the_September_11%2C_2001_attacks#Hijackers_list_compiled_by_FBI
You can look at each of their individual pages from there.
...unless, of course, you want to argue that there were no middle eastern terrorists on 9/11 ;-) - tehsux, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6That's because 90% of US troops joined in retaliation for 9/11.
- SultanTravi, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11This is not entirely false. Al-Qaeda has a presence in Iraq, and every day we kill Al-Qaeda combatants. Granted, we're the reason they even got there in the first place, but in a way you could say we are fighting against the same group that caused 9/11.
- swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8"The attacks on 9/11 were an attempt to destroy American freedoms, hopes and dreams."
Haha, no. Does anybody seriously buy that line, "they hate our freedom!" The attack on the WTC was an attempt to bring attention to American interventionalism in the middle east. UBL wanted nothing more than to provoke violence on a scale that couldn't be ignored by the Arab governments, unifying them against the western world. It worked so well that one can't help but wonder if we have a sleeper cell in the white house. - ninti, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Really, you might want to read a little bit and avoid making yourself look like a complete moron:
"The survey included 944 military respondents interviewed at several undisclosed locations throughout Iraq. The names of the specific locations and specific personnel who conducted the survey are being withheld for security purposes. Surveys were conducted face-to-face using random sampling techniques. The margin of error for the survey, conducted Jan. 18 through Feb. 14, 2006, is +/- 3.3 percentage points." - ninti, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7It's called statistics. You should look into the concept.
- snypa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Ever heard of statistical sampling?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+61) Why were a handful of rebel fighters able to penetrate the defenses of a battle station that had the capability of destroying an entire planet and the defenses to ward off several fleets of battle ships?
2) Why did Grand Moff Tarkin refuse to deploy the station’s large fleet of TIE Fighters until it was too late? Was he acting on orders from somebody to not shoot down the rebel attack force? If so, who, and why?
3) Why was the rebel pilot who supposedly destroyed the Death Star reported to be on the Death Star days, maybe hours, prior to its destruction? Why was he allowed to escape, and why were several individuals dressed in Stormtrooper uniforms seen helping him?
4) Why has there not been an investigation into allegations that Darth Vader, the second-ranking member of the Imperial Government, is in fact the father of the pilot who allegedly destroyed the Death Star?
5) Why did Lord Vader decide to break all protocols and personally pilot a lightly armored TIE Fighter? Conveniently, this placed Lord Vader outside of the Death Star when it was destroyed, where he was also conveniently able to escape from a large-sized rebel fleet that had just routed the Imperial forces. Why would Lord Vader, one of the highest ranking members of the Imperial Government, suddenly decide to fly away from the Death Star in the middle of a battle? Did he know something that the rest of the Imperial Navy didn’t?
6) How could any pilot shoot a missile into a 2 meter-wide exhaust port, let alone a pilot with no formal training, whose only claim to fame was his ability to “bullseye womprats” on Tatooine? This shot, according to one pilot, would be “impossible, even for a computer.” Yet, according to additional evidence, the pilot who allegedly fired the missile turned off his targeting computer when he was supposedly firing the shot that destroyed the Death Star. Why have these discrepancies never been investigated, let alone explained?
7) Why has their been no investigation into evidence that the droids who provided the rebels with the Death Star plans were once owned by none other than Lord Vader himself, and were found, conveniently, by the pilot who destroyed the Death Star, and who is also believed to be Lord Vader’s son? Evidence also shows that the droids were brought to one Ben Kenobi, who, records indicate, was Darth Vader’s teacher many years earlier! Are all these personal connections between the conspirators and a key figure in the Imperial government supposed to be coincidences?
8) How could a single missile destroy a battle station the size of a moon? No records, anywhere, show that any battle station or capital ship has ever been destroyed by a single missile. Furthermore, analysis of the tape of the last moments of the Death Star show numerous small explosions along its surface, prior to it exploding completely! Why does all evidence indicate that strategically placed explosives, not a single missile, is what destroyed the Death Star? - Nowheredan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Well trolled sir, well trolled.
- iSEPIC, on 10/12/2007, -4/+909F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0% of stats are made up.
- swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Al Qaeda wasn't even in Iraq until after the occupation. QED.
- SultanTravi, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8@swrostmore
You're so ignorant I'm not sure if I should assume you know this or not, but the troops do not have a choice as to when and where they are deployed. And if they go AWOL, that's a crime. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5MY NEIGHBOR'S SON JUST DIED IN IRAQ
I see they have removed the Bush/Cheney bumper sticker - Subiklim, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8Ah, yes. I love these dirt cheap oil prices. We should invade oil countries on an annual basis.
- swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12OneHine, we have all been deliberately misinformed from Day One of the Iraq war. It doesn't take an intellectual genius to figure that out, and a hell of a lot more than 10% of the general population knows it.
tidu: what does that have to do with anything? - SultanTravi, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10Your ignorance is astounding.
A lot of servicemen and women can and do have jobs at home before and after they serve. A lot of people join to serve their country. Being in the military takes much more than doing an average civilian job.
And don't forget that all officers in the military have college degrees. Not only that, but depending on their job the officers likely have better qualifications than most civilian jobs require. - nickbender, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"I don't refuse to join the military because i don't have the courage, i refuse to join because I don't agree with what they do."
I actually wasn't implying cowardice... nor did I use that verbage...
"If we were actually defending ourselves, I would probably join however right now we're just occupying a country."
I don't agree with the reasons we're in Iraq, nor do I think Bush and the administration is capable of any form of real governing, but disagreeing with your superiors doesn't mean you shouldn't want to advance to a point where you can change the way things currently are.
"Now you saying you've just joined, I think much less of you. You know we're occupying a country and you want to help continue to occupy it by killing people who would be doing the same thing I would be doing if some aggressor was occupying the place I lived. The original troops who joined within the first few years of this I could understand they still believed they were doing a noble thing by trying to help the iraqi's, but by joining now, you're just ignorant, want to kill people or can't get a civilian job. In which case, the army is designed for people like you."
Haha it's fine if you think less of me, as you knew nothing of me to begin with. The vast majority of the violence in Iraq isn't due to aggression towards the US for us being there, but aggression towards the US because it is a holy war they are fighting. Most Iraqi civilian deaths are from OTHER IRAQI sects. I agree with the need to leave the country, but to leave on the same terms as vietnam is just bad juju.
I actually work 7 days a week, at a financial institution and a retail outlet, both where i've been employed with great reviews from my superiors.
That all being said, I joined the navy, and will likely be stationed in Okinawa, Japan, having very little if anything to do with the war.
... good call though... you made your point :). - dime, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Kind of a misleading conclusion.
90% may believe the Iraq War is retaliation for 9/11, but do 90% believe Iraq was partially responsible for 9/11? Doubtful.
I mean, I believe the Iraq War was retaliation for 9/11, but not because they had anything to do with it... but because the Bush Brigade wanted to use it as justification for a rebuilding of an America-friendly middle east. - bingo000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5No, this war is a bout freedom. Freeing Arab oil from its native land. Cost for this is lives wasted thinking they are making a difference!!! The administration is lying to us. They maybe have not declared clear links to Iraq and terrorism but they have not drawn a clear line to why our father, daughters, sons and husbands are fighting and dying in a war they don't belong in.
- swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -5/+8If you can get a job or get in to school, why would you want to join the military? I think the solution is mandatory tours, like israel does. But if the US does that, its even more important to stop allowing the government to start wars for no good reason.
- Ziak, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5"If you can get a job or get in to school, why would you want to join the military? I think the solution is mandatory tours, like israel does. But if the US does that, its even more important to stop allowing the government to start wars for no good reason."
That statement is just absurd, I wanted to do something different which is why I joined the USMC. It was NOT because I could not gotten into college or afford it at all, it was the simple decision I wanted to be proud of doing something different. That 90% of the US troops believe that the Iraq war is for retaliation is just hogwash. I don't believe those stats for a second, based on the discussions that I had with alot of my coworkers. - stepnw1f, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Gee.... I wonder why they think that. It wouldn't have anything to do with all that war-time propaganda from our bought and sold 4th Estate (now privately owned corporate media), would it now?
This is what happens when profit trumps truth. People lie while others have to die for those lies. Man o man there will be hell to pay. - swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Oh I get it! this sample was intentionally taken in a part of Iraq where the soldiers are all wealthy and living in luxury, in order to make Bush look bad! It all makes sense!
- kurtwinter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3BTW WTF is an Isalamofascist? You neocons and your stupid constructed words. Saddam kept out al queada because they wanted a piece of his power. When you lump in so many disparate groups, who clash and attack each other, you look like the kind of douce who gets his news from Fox.
- swrostmore, on 10/12/2007, -2/+577% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.”
Those 77% are just as wrong as the 90% that think Saddam planned 9/11. - axel2k1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5snowelite:
poll: n., a sampling or collection of opinions on a subject, taken from a random group of persons, as for the purpose of analysis.
A non random poll is just a survey. - kurtwinter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Remember that this is the same occupation force whose media has been severely filtered. You won't hear rebroadbasts of Air America (reason: too political) but Rush Limbaugh is on. Its a microcosm of an America where its either the wingnut shills' opinions, or no ones.
- Nowheredan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Someone really needs to send this to John McCain.
- geometry, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I believe a solution to these problems would be to have a much smaller standing army in times of "Peace". Then when we decide war is the only remaining solution we should have a mandatory draft. This would solve a few problems. First, and most importantly if you and your parents knew that you may be drafted to fight in a war you / they would spend more time investigating to be sure that it was a war worth fighting. Second, this would force all Americans to be more involved with the nations politics. Third, this would cut down spending in times of Peace.
- axel2k1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2sultantravi:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm
That is all. - TomRitchford, on 10/12/2007, -4/+6"90% of the troops are badly misinformed. "
A responsible person would become informed before they started killing tens and hundreds of thousands of other people. - SilentSpyder, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I have a feeling that most of those kids that go to private school don't server in the miliatary. Before someone says "I know someone" I did say MOST.
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