What is Digg?356 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -45/+248Probably because the audience knows that PNAC is in fact an enemy of the USA and their policies are responsible for much of the trouble the US is in. Their dinosaur politics of domination have no place in the modern world. Their belief that the US should dominate world politics by any means neccessary is detrimental to progress and guarantees the the failure of their schemes.
The PNAC members in the Bush adminstration have again and again been involved in morally or ethically questionable actions. The whole Plame outing was a PNAC member scheme to discredit ONE MAN, and to do so they had to blow a covert agent's cover, which incidentally blew the cover of every other agent who was using the same cover as Plame, as well as blowing the cover of EVERYONE SHE EVER MET WITH. Then they lied about it. This is a perfect illustration of how PNAC does business. Ethics is not a factor in their decision making.
Watch the video. I can smell ***** a mile away, and this guy reeks of it.
Why sit there and listen to someone try to lie to you (by giving you the bizarro PNAC view of the world)?
Kristol is part of the problem, he'll never be part of a solution. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -23/+116It was in a public forum. The University of Texas at Austin is a public, taxpayer-funded university.
- orientis, on 10/12/2007, -24/+100Agreed. All I saw there was a wasted opportunity. Imagine the questions that could have been asked in a civil manner that would have, as you said, stuck it to him.
I was also struck by Kristol's smarm. Even when faced with the Pearl Harbour question he had a smirk on his face. Does anyone recall that video (I think it was on Digg) of Clinton being heckled at a press conference about not doing enough about reports of possible attacks? He wasn't smirking and dismissing the questioner, he took the question seriously and gave an excellent rebuttal, with civility and passion. The difference between the two is striking. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -29/+78"the shouting audience members just sounded like crazies."
I think it's time we got crazy. I'm sick as ***** of the right wing spreading insults and lies but we're supposed to just sit back and try to engage them with intelligent questions?
He was damn lucky they didn't drag him into the street and stone him. Would have served him right. - thefirelane, on 10/12/2007, -9/+57@ Hurin
Sorry, but you just don't understand do you.
It isn't that the left "wants the US to fail". It is that the left sees the *current policies as a path to failure*. Military action will not, and typically does not, reduce the threat of long term enemies to the US. It does an excellent job of solving short term problems of aggressive states (aka. Hilter). But it will not bring about the kind of change required to produce a prosperous secular ally. For that we need peace and economic engagement.
If you doubt this, answer this question. Which nation is more of a threat to the US:
Post-war Iraq, or post economic boom China? (Or compare Iraq/Dubai if you like)
Who is more of a threat to the US economic Ally South Korea, or our military enemy North Korea?
“The Left” doesn’t want us to fail, it wants us to succeed. So does “the Right” for that matter, it is a question of what each side believes will lead to success. Casting it in such simple terms only shows your personal bias, not any great insight.
“I don't think our way of life, our Constitution, or our freedoms will survive the types of trials that would await us in a world where our cities might disappear instantly”
I’m sorry, then you severely underestimate the US. The power of the US is not in the fact that it has some big cities with a large population. The power of the US comes from its institutions, its courts, its laws, and the constitution. That is why the US is the power that it is, and it is why a threat to the constitution is a much greater threat than to a city. If 4 major cities were to be nuked, it would be a tragedy on a historic scale… but we would recover, much like Japan has. However, if we loose our freedoms and constitution to gain a sense of safety, we might never recover from that. - evi1, on 10/12/2007, -28/+71I am proud of my university.
- smoothmedia, on 10/12/2007, -17/+56That was so irritating to watch because absolutely nothing was accomplished. Civilized discourse is needed for a debate, or a question forum. These two smart asses would have been better served to refrain from yelling and interrupting him, and instead stuck to pointing out the flaws in his belief system and asking tough questions. They showed flashes of brilliance.....but were mainly just arrogant tools.
- JoCliMe, on 10/12/2007, -40/+76I'm sorry, but I don't care if you disagree with someone, you still need to be respectful when they are speaking. If you don't want to hear them speak, politely get up and leave. Quit violating another's free speech. This goes for EVERYONE.
- GawtMilk, on 10/12/2007, -34/+70DISCLAIMER: I don't like the Iraq war, nor am I a neo-con. But those conspiracy nuts in the crowd acted out of hand.
Why do so many American's think the right of free speech means the right to heckle? It means you can say what you like, it doesn't mean you can say it whenever you want. The guy has no manners. Bringing up the first amendment when he was asked to leave is stupid. He was told four or five times to stop talking, because it was the PNAC dude's turn.
He still had all of his damn constitutional rights. No one was blaming him for WHAT he was saying (that would've been a breach of rights), it's just he was interupting the speaker mid-sentance. It's stupid to draw conclusions that your right's are being infringed in instances like that. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -24/+58"Someone please tell me when its time to storm the White house and drag these Traitors into the street."
This would seem to imply vigilante justice, perhaps it's time we took them all into protective custody...in GITMO. Or one of the secret prisons in Poland.
Strictly for their protection, of course. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -41/+74Someone please tell me when its time to storm the White house and drag these Traitors into the street.
These people have the same mentality as Hitler. - strangerzero, on 10/12/2007, -22/+52William Kristol is a truly sickening individual.
- Twango, on 10/12/2007, -9/+39May PNAC reap the reward they richly deserve for all they've done to destroy our country.
- orientis, on 10/12/2007, -28/+56@anyone digging neonic down. Why? He makes an excellent point. As I said, this was an excellent opportunity to ask meaningful questions - who knows, perhaps Kristol might have slipped and said something blatantly evil and it would have been on record. Instead the dissenters yelled meaningless slogans. "9/11 was a lie" ? That's pathetic! Why not wait patiently until your turn to speak and have a good, pointed question prepared in advance?
- fredrated, on 10/12/2007, -8/+35"People that heckle and talk over others in a setting like this make it clear that they can't handle a view that contradicts theirs."
Generally I would agree, but there comes a time when quietly listening to a pure sack of ***** spewing out it's filth on the audience needs to be addressed directly and while the ***** is spewing. - davesbrain, on 10/12/2007, -5/+32@spankaccount
This is from the link you provided.
"Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor."
I remember eating lunch in NYC on September 11, 2001 listening to the "Great Decider" talk about this attack as being our generation's Pearl Harbor. Now tell me again they didn't call for a new Pearl Harbor. - unicornhunter, on 10/12/2007, -31/+54I second that. Don't disrespect a man while it's his turn to speak. It makes your own POV worthless.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -25/+47Goebbels heckled and boo-ed during a visit to Poland, in 1937.
- fuzzmeister, on 10/12/2007, -60/+82Despite my extreme dislike for Kristol, his views, and neocons in general, I have to agree with you. He is there expressing his views in a private forum. The solution would have been to work out a way to debate him, not to heckle him from the crowd and act astonished when they take you away.
- skiesel93, on 10/12/2007, -22/+43Bill Kristol gets plenty of free speech- on Fox "News", on CSPAN, in the syndicated press, and so forth. Even though it would have been more effective if people had prepared a more intelligent counterattack to the insult of Kristol's evangelizing, people like Kristol have all the guns, money, and lawyers, literally and metaphorically speaking, not to let some working class college students get to say anything to make him look stupid, not for long, at least. Belligerent and loud protest of his presence sends a basic message about the public's reaction to a man who has had plenty of time and space to make his opinions and positions known. It says not in our house, not at our school, not on my watch. And if we all said that then no amount of cash or political influence on earth would be able to get in our way.
- pintomp3, on 10/12/2007, -15/+35impeding on free speech or fighting propaganda?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Here are some quotes from Eastern European Fascito-Zionist mastermind Zbigniew Brzezinski. The policies followed by Kristol et al is based on Brzezinski's ideology laid down in in his book 'The Grand Chessboard'. Kristol and the PNAC boys follow this grand plan, they mastermind FALSE FLAG TERRORISM, TORTURE, PROPAGANDA, ILLEGAL WARS ETC.
This Eastern European mentality RUNS America and this psychology is exemplified best, by one of their most famous ancestors, "Vlad the Impaler". They are ruthless, power hungry, cunning, deceptive and always murderous. They love the smell and taste of "human flesh and blood in the mornings".
Quotes from the famous Polak Brzezinski:
"The attitude of the American public toward the external projection of American power has been much more ambivalent. The public supported America's engagement in World War II largely because of the shock effect of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.” (pp 24-5)
“It is also a fact that America is too democratic at home to be autocratic abroad. This limits the use of America's power, especially its capacity for military intimidation. Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35)
"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)
"In that context, how America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. Eurasia is the globe's largest continent and is geopolitically axial. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for 60 per cent of the world's GNP and about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31) - littlebylittle, on 10/12/2007, -2/+19Let's just clarify who the OTHER members of the "Project for the New American Century" are. Real stand-up bunch:
Current members include William Kristol, Robert Kagan, Bruce P. Jackson, Mark Gerson, Randy Scheunemann, Ellen Bork, Gary Schmitt, Thomas Donnelly, and Reuel Marc Gerecht.[3]
Former members include prominent members of the Republican Party and the Bush Administration, including Richard Armitage, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Zalmay Khalilzad, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Richard Perle, former U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz.
Other former members include:
* Gary Bauer, former presidential candidate, president of American Values
* James B. Borow, former deputy director of the NSA, co-founder of the Illinois Center for Core Values
* Rudy Boschwitz, former US Senator from Minnesota
* Eliot A. Cohen, professor of strategic studies at Johns Hopkins University
* Steve Forbes, multi-millionaire publisher of Forbes Magazine, former presidential candidate
* Aaron Friedberg, director of the Center of International Studies
* Frank Gaffney, columnist, founder of Center for Security Policy
* Fred Ikle, Center for Strategic and International Studies
* Jeane Kirkpatrick, former U.S. ambassador
* Charles Krauthammer, conservative columnist
* Christopher Maletz
* Daniel McKivergan
* Norman Podhoretz, Hudson Institute
* Dan Quayle, former vice-president
* Stephen Rosen, Beton Michael Kaneb Professor of National Security and Military Affairs, Harvard University
* Henry Rowen, former president of Rand Corporation (*cough* Michelle Mulkin)
* Abram Shulsky, former Director of Office of Special Plans
* Vin Weber, Minnesota congressman
* George Weigel, political commentator
* R. James Woolsey, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency for President Bill Clinton, vice-president at Booz Allen Hamilton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_new_american_century - furryplanet, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19austin has some good people!
- mattxb, on 10/12/2007, -19/+35@ichuckles
The crime was telling the press who Wilson's wife was. The press shouldn't have known the information to begin with, and it seems you're assuming that the members of the press who printed the information knew that it was classified (which the person in the government who leaked it did know or atleast should have) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+23Some of you people act as if this was an open debate forum and it WASNT. That is why people were talking out of turn and making comments instead of questions. The Neocons and open forum debates are like oil and water.
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -5/+21I was referring to the small in numbers but very influential crazy ass right wing likud types who basically steam rolled their agenda at the highest levels of government and sold everyone on how their agenda was the best thing for the united states when in fact that was not the case. Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglous Feith. Feith even headed his own little independent government agency responsible for making up evidence to get us into Iraq. Then it is found that his 'evidence' is mostly made up and he is fired, no one hears from him. The ramifications for his deception are around 3000 dead US soldiers. Most of these PNAC psychopaths are quietly going away with no punishment whatsoever. They should all be identified, ridiculed and pointed out so they can't squirm away while American soldiers die. Maybe even charge them for treason. Their agenda is not America's agenda. Let everyone study who they are and how they got what they wanted so this never happens again.
- nowayhoseb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17"...Or one of the secret prisons in Poland"
Or one of the secret prisons - run by the CIA -in Poland. The Polish people had nothing to do with this or any or this NeoCon policy. Thanks. - PhilMoskowitz, on 10/12/2007, -11/+25If people could only think with a degree of abstraction and knew what this person was responsible for, he's lucky he merely gets heckled. What should you do with a traitor? How damaging is the lunatic in the street who spits on the troops, or a blatant racist compared to this man, who's actively and effectively acting counter to the principles of the Union and the Constitution. The problem with this movement is they dress respectable, they're vile evil individuals that hide in an expensive suit. That's all it takes these days. A superficial package on the blackest intentions and you can change the world too.
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -12/+26Kristol and PNAC are vile human beings but I would have preferred discussion that nailed him down until he squirmed like the little snake he is. Let us all ridicule him in a public forum so this nightmare never happens again. You want to talk about the 'liberal elite'.. That is nothing compared to what this jackass and his elite group of cronies have done, gotten us into a war with a country who did not attack us in order to fulfill their selfish desires. He massacared language and duped even the right in order to take out Saddam. He redefined patriotism to suit his own needs. He deserves nothing but public shame. Look up the religion of 90% of PNAC members. Do your own research.
They are the enemy. - Groovemaster, on 10/12/2007, -2/+16The PNAC ideology is still what is currently running America.
When the troops are back home from the illegal war of conquest and we're given all our stolen rights back, THEN these people are finished, and not before. - JonForTheWin, on 10/12/2007, -6/+19I doubt fox news would want to bring attention to this since Bohemian Grove was mentioned and that's something they want to keep on the down-low.
- Hurin, on 10/12/2007, -20/+33-----------------------------------------------
That guy managed to make a coherent defence of himself (in the quiet periods) and the shouting audience members just sounded like crazies.
-----------------------------------------------
It's even more amazing considering the video is edited in such a way so that its focus is on the heckling and what they have to say (dismally silly as it is). Despite the best efforts of the editor, the "protesters" come off as idiots and Kristol still comes off as calm and rational. Unless of course, you already hate the guy with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns. - spartan777, on 10/12/2007, -27/+39the kids were acting like a bunch of 5 year olds. They should have gotten much more than just getting kicked out, they weren't even kicked out for a while either. And what pathetic excuses; "Why am I getting kicked out... cuz of the 1st amendment?" Wah wah wah. Too bad that guy didn't have a mother that could teach him some common decency.
- nakba, on 10/12/2007, -6/+18Kristol may seem polite and articulate, but he is also one of the brains behind some of the most destructive policies in American history. Kristol's ideas, however eloquent, are partly responsible for the deaths of thousands.
Protest is rarely a calm affair, but it is necessary to challenge the status quo in order to force entrenched political interests to recognize less pleasing (to them) aspects of the people's wishes.
***** your politeness, we must bring the neocons down. - buckrogers1965, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16What is it with all the smirking neocons?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/smirk
smirk Pronunciation (smûrk)
intr.v. smirked, smirk·ing, smirks
To smile in an affected, often offensively self-satisfied manner.
n. An affected, often offensively self-satisfied smile.
When anyone smiles in this way they are telling you two things.
One, that they feel superior to you and
two, that they have gotten something by you.
It's a guilty reflex that people smile in such a way. - luteslinger, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Open mind? There is no debate to be debated. Either you're with the United States Constitution or you're not.
- Hetman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Liberals are not against free speech they are fore it. That doesnt mean you have to listen to someone who is speaking to you. If the audience doesnt like what you are saying they have the right to boo you if they chose.
- luteslinger, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Wow! For something that happened almost 6 months ago, for it to be revisited shows that all that reporting last October did not go in vain. Great news. This guy is a first class commie and a hater of the US Constitution (a neo-con), and most importantly a hater of the average US citizen--and then there is his permanent media smile just like the Joker. The term Axis of Evil came directly from Kristol's office. It is a crafted phrase, designed for peasant's to understand, not necessarily an accurate one. If it was accurate we'd have also put the brakes on China, Mexico and North Korea, right?
- lkeg56demn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Hook 'em. I love my school.
- Groovemaster, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Yes, there's no question that the current administration has benefitted massively from the 9/11 attacks.
But, remind me, in what way did the people who you insist carried out the attacks benefit? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+12Israelo-Trolls - you got to love, sad but true, they probably all sit around in the basement of some NSA building or DHS headquarters next to Chertoff's office posting on forums all day.
America has been taken over by Israelo-Troll-Ziono-Fascists, fact. - Groovemaster, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11"Did MLK ever resort to name calling? no, he used rational argument."
Yeah, and look where that got him.
The criminals that are running our country no longer deserve rational argument. - davesbrain, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14@Hurin
Wow, I'm glad you get your political philosophy from a work of fantasy fiction. Makes me know I'm dealing with a true intellectual.
One question, with all of the military fighter aircraft in the metropolitan New York area, why were four hijacked planes allowed to fly unmolested into their final destinations with no military response?
FAA called these hijackings in, as is procedure, and the military did nothing, against their standard operating procedures.
We had then, as now, the worlds most technologically advanced military force. Since the attacks we have not added millions of service members, we have not added hundreds of thousands of fighter planes, so if the "New Pearl Harbor" was to bring about an military build-up, where is it? Seams to me I hear a lot about the Army not having enough soldiers to fight.
The US was united around attacking those who attacked us, Al Queda and not Iraq. - knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13-whispering- (like dick cheney screamed "***** you!" during that one session of congress? that one where he pointed his middle finger at someone? shout them down, like that? or like karl rove thumbing his nose at people?) -/whispering-
- Frequency, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14Kristol is a snake. He's a professional writer! OF COURSE everything he says is going to 'sound' intelligent. Using the english language is his ***** day job! This is the reason the stupid majority believe even the worst of politicians and advertisements. You can twist and contort any language to make the worst of things sound like a good idea, and if you are speaking in public then vocal tones and body language just add another layer to that kind of distortion.
The policies he and PNAC advocate are absolutely ignorant of historical precedent and lack any kind of economic sustainability. They're dressed up in buzzwords and newspeak for easy digestion, but if you read a ***** history book then you'll see they're all nothing but imperialist nonsense. - nick111, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13I don't think the looneyness or lack of courtesy or issues surrounding freedom of speech is the point on this one.
What this is, is an internet video-clip - a bit of viral content that's going to spread like crazy and will probably be turned into a sort of iconic event representing a point in US history.
What it represents is the wheels coming off the Neocon dream. The open derision and disbelief of Americans in the face of the most controlled and stage-managed political organisation in US history. According to the Neocon pre-emptive rewriting of history, this guy should be a hero... welcomed in the streets of Baghdad etc. Instead he's openly called a liar and completly looses control of his own lecture. These people are finished.
- fatfinger, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11power to the people!
- Groovemaster, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Hitler also had a lot of supportive fans among his countrymen.
Just goes to show... It doesn't matter evil you are or how criminally insane your ideology is, as long as you have power there will always be enough mindless followers in the world to back you up. - knomevol, on 10/12/2007, -6/+14how polite was it to force people to jump out of the upper stories of WTC 1 & 2?
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